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Re: 1907 Villages Rusyn or Ukrainian or something else ? "Our People Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"

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  • Laurence
    / Professor Magocsi has *incorrectly* given to the scholarship about Carpatho-Rusyns that there were no Carpatho-Rusyns at the outset of the 20th Century in
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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      /

      Professor Magocsi has *incorrectly* given to the scholarship about Carpatho-Rusyns that there were no Carpatho-Rusyns "at the outset of the 20th Century" in the area east of the San River and north of the current Transcarpathian oblast border. He states that they were Ukrainians. The people there before "the outset of the 20th Century" did not state that they were Ukrainians.

      _______

      Lavrentiy



      --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here's a subset of villages I noticed listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol
      > 12 Galizien that I did NOT notice listed in Prof. Magosci's "Our People
      > Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
      >
      > To keep things short here's a few examples
      >
      > Looking at Drohobycz, Podbaz AND Sambor, Sambor AND Sambor, Laka
      > I just started looking so these were the first I noticed.
      >
      > Greek Catholics, %GK of Village, 1907 Name ---> Modern Name
      >
      > 610 GK, 95%, Bystrzyea, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Bystrytsia, Drohobych,
      > L?viv, Ukraine
      > 1649 GK, 89.9%, Dolhe Podbuskie, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Dovhe (along the
      > Stryj River), Drohobych, L?viv, Ukraine
      > 268 GK, 97.5%, Zdzianna, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Zhdanivka, Drohobych,
      > L?viv, Ukraine
      >
      > 566 GK, 92.5%, Bykow, Sambor, Laka --> Bykiv, Drohobych, L'viv, Ukraine
      > 2849 GK, 96%, Dorozow, Sambor, Laka --> Verkhnyi Dorozhiv, Drohobych,
      > L'viv, Ukraine
      >
      > 1098 GK, 94.7%, Wykoty, Sambor, Sambor
      > 1709 GK, 73.0%, Wojutyeze, Sambor, Sambor
      >
      > 1) Were these villages Rusyn?
      >
      > 2) If one were to find villages listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol 12
      > Galizien Book listed as 90-100% Greek Catholic would they be Rusyn
      > Villages or possibly something else?
      >
      > 3) Prof. Magosci's "Our People Carpo-Rusyns and Their Descendants in
      > North America" lists 1100+ Rusyn villages. does anyone else have an
      > opinion of how many there were?
      >
      > thanks,
      > john magyari
      > www.lipowiec.org
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Laurence
      John, Professor Magocsi has given to the Carpatho-Rusyn and Ukrainian scholarship the the following incorrect assertion: there were no Carpatho-Rusyns at the
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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        John,

        Professor Magocsi has given to the Carpatho-Rusyn and Ukrainian scholarship the the following incorrect assertion: there were no Carpatho-Rusyns "at the outset of the 20th Century" in the lands east of the San River and north of the current Transcarpathian oblast border. He states that they were Ukrainians.

        The people in the lands stated above before "the outset of the 20th Century" did not state that they were Ukrainians nor even know what a Ukrainian ethos was.

        _______

        Lavrentiy






        --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here's a subset of villages I noticed listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol
        > 12 Galizien that I did NOT notice listed in Prof. Magosci's "Our People
        > Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
        >
        > To keep things short here's a few examples
        >
        > Looking at Drohobycz, Podbaz AND Sambor, Sambor AND Sambor, Laka
        > I just started looking so these were the first I noticed.
        >
        > Greek Catholics, %GK of Village, 1907 Name ---> Modern Name
        >
        > 610 GK, 95%, Bystrzyea, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Bystrytsia, Drohobych,
        > L?viv, Ukraine
        > 1649 GK, 89.9%, Dolhe Podbuskie, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Dovhe (along the
        > Stryj River), Drohobych, L?viv, Ukraine
        > 268 GK, 97.5%, Zdzianna, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Zhdanivka, Drohobych,
        > L?viv, Ukraine
        >
        > 566 GK, 92.5%, Bykow, Sambor, Laka --> Bykiv, Drohobych, L'viv, Ukraine
        > 2849 GK, 96%, Dorozow, Sambor, Laka --> Verkhnyi Dorozhiv, Drohobych,
        > L'viv, Ukraine
        >
        > 1098 GK, 94.7%, Wykoty, Sambor, Sambor
        > 1709 GK, 73.0%, Wojutyeze, Sambor, Sambor
        >
        > 1) Were these villages Rusyn?
        >
        > 2) If one were to find villages listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol 12
        > Galizien Book listed as 90-100% Greek Catholic would they be Rusyn
        > Villages or possibly something else?
        >
        > 3) Prof. Magosci's "Our People Carpo-Rusyns and Their Descendants in
        > North America" lists 1100+ Rusyn villages. does anyone else have an
        > opinion of how many there were?
        >
        > thanks,
        > john magyari
        > www.lipowiec.org
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Danuta Janina Wójcik
        The area of Drohobycz, Podbaz, Sambor etc. originated from the period of Kievan Rus was part of the woj. ruskiego (Ruthenian Voivodeship). 1907 - Ukrainian
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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          The area of Drohobycz, Podbaz, Sambor etc. originated from the period of Kievan Rus was part of the woj. ruskiego (Ruthenian Voivodeship).

          1907 - Ukrainian Nationalism had begun.

          http://www.tourmycountry.com/austria/nationalism-habsburg-galicia.htm


          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_Wegier,_Polski,_Prus_i_Woloszczyzny,_1525._czwarte_strassburskie_wydanie,_ptolemejskiej_mapy_Waldseem%C3%BCllera_z_1507_r.zamieszczone_w_wydaniu_dziela_Claudii_Ptolemaei_Geographicae_enarrationis..jpg


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Laurence
          To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 9:48 AM
          Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: 1907 Villages Rusyn or Ukrainian or something else ? "Our People Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"



          /

          Professor Magocsi has *incorrectly* given to the scholarship about Carpatho-Rusyns that there were no Carpatho-Rusyns "at the outset of the 20th Century" in the area east of the San River and north of the current Transcarpathian oblast border. He states that they were Ukrainians. The people there before "the outset of the 20th Century" did not state that they were Ukrainians.

          _______

          Lavrentiy

          --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's a subset of villages I noticed listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol
          > 12 Galizien that I did NOT notice listed in Prof. Magosci's "Our People
          > Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
          >
          > To keep things short here's a few examples
          >
          > Looking at Drohobycz, Podbaz AND Sambor, Sambor AND Sambor, Laka
          > I just started looking so these were the first I noticed.
          >
          > Greek Catholics, %GK of Village, 1907 Name ---> Modern Name
          >
          > 610 GK, 95%, Bystrzyea, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Bystrytsia, Drohobych,
          > L?viv, Ukraine
          > 1649 GK, 89.9%, Dolhe Podbuskie, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Dovhe (along the
          > Stryj River), Drohobych, L?viv, Ukraine
          > 268 GK, 97.5%, Zdzianna, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Zhdanivka, Drohobych,
          > L?viv, Ukraine
          >
          > 566 GK, 92.5%, Bykow, Sambor, Laka --> Bykiv, Drohobych, L'viv, Ukraine
          > 2849 GK, 96%, Dorozow, Sambor, Laka --> Verkhnyi Dorozhiv, Drohobych,
          > L'viv, Ukraine
          >
          > 1098 GK, 94.7%, Wykoty, Sambor, Sambor
          > 1709 GK, 73.0%, Wojutyeze, Sambor, Sambor
          >
          > 1) Were these villages Rusyn?
          >
          > 2) If one were to find villages listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol 12
          > Galizien Book listed as 90-100% Greek Catholic would they be Rusyn
          > Villages or possibly something else?
          >
          > 3) Prof. Magosci's "Our People Carpo-Rusyns and Their Descendants in
          > North America" lists 1100+ Rusyn villages. does anyone else have an
          > opinion of how many there were?
          >
          > thanks,
          > john magyari
          > www.lipowiec.org
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Laurence
          Here s some information about the Martin Waldseemüller 1507 world map from which the excerpt came from: http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0309/maps.html
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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            Here's some information about the Martin Waldseemüller 1507 world map from which the excerpt came from:


            http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0309/maps.html


            http://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/waldexh.html


            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldseem%C3%BCller_map




            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Danuta Janina W�jcik <sandlily@...> wrote:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_Wegier,_Polski,_Prus_i_Woloszczyzny,_1525._czwarte_strassburskie_wydanie,_ptolemejskiej_mapy_Waldseem%C3%BCllera_z_1507_r.zamieszczone_w_wydaniu_dziela_Claudii_Ptolemaei_Geographicae_enarrationis..jpg
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Laurence
            > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 9:48 AM
            > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: 1907 Villages Rusyn or Ukrainian or something else ? "Our People Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
            >
            >
            >
            > /
            >
            > Professor Magocsi has *incorrectly* given to the scholarship about Carpatho-Rusyns that there were no Carpatho-Rusyns "at the outset of the 20th Century" in the area east of the San River and north of the current Transcarpathian oblast border. He states that they were Ukrainians. The people there before "the outset of the 20th Century" did not state that they were Ukrainians.
            >
            > _______
            >
            > Lavrentiy
            >
            > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Here's a subset of villages I noticed listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol
            > > 12 Galizien that I did NOT notice listed in Prof. Magosci's "Our People
            > > Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
            > >
            > > To keep things short here's a few examples
            > >
            > > Looking at Drohobycz, Podbaz AND Sambor, Sambor AND Sambor, Laka
            > > I just started looking so these were the first I noticed.
            > >
            > > Greek Catholics, %GK of Village, 1907 Name ---> Modern Name
            > >
            > > 610 GK, 95%, Bystrzyea, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Bystrytsia, Drohobych,
            > > L?viv, Ukraine
            > > 1649 GK, 89.9%, Dolhe Podbuskie, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Dovhe (along the
            > > Stryj River), Drohobych, L?viv, Ukraine
            > > 268 GK, 97.5%, Zdzianna, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Zhdanivka, Drohobych,
            > > L?viv, Ukraine
            > >
            > > 566 GK, 92.5%, Bykow, Sambor, Laka --> Bykiv, Drohobych, L'viv, Ukraine
            > > 2849 GK, 96%, Dorozow, Sambor, Laka --> Verkhnyi Dorozhiv, Drohobych,
            > > L'viv, Ukraine
            > >
            > > 1098 GK, 94.7%, Wykoty, Sambor, Sambor
            > > 1709 GK, 73.0%, Wojutyeze, Sambor, Sambor
            > >
            > > 1) Were these villages Rusyn?
            > >
            > > 2) If one were to find villages listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol 12
            > > Galizien Book listed as 90-100% Greek Catholic would they be Rusyn
            > > Villages or possibly something else?
            > >
            > > 3) Prof. Magosci's "Our People Carpo-Rusyns and Their Descendants in
            > > North America" lists 1100+ Rusyn villages. does anyone else have an
            > > opinion of how many there were?
            > >
            > > thanks,
            > > john magyari
            > > www.lipowiec.org
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Laurence
            For those who need some help getting oriented ( finding places on the map , Cracovia is Krakow, Leopolis is L viv. Sanok, Sambir, etc. are on the map.
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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              For those who need some help getting oriented ("finding places on the map", "Cracovia" is Krakow, Leopolis is L'viv.

              Sanok, Sambir, etc. are on the map.



              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
              >
              > Here's some information about the Martin Waldseemüller 1507 world map from which the excerpt came from:
              >
              >
              > http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0309/maps.html
              >
              >
              > http://www.loc.gov/rr/geogmap/waldexh.html
              >
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldseem%C3%BCller_map
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Danuta Janina W�jcik <sandlily@> wrote:
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mapa_Wegier,_Polski,_Prus_i_Woloszczyzny,_1525._czwarte_strassburskie_wydanie,_ptolemejskiej_mapy_Waldseem%C3%BCllera_z_1507_r.zamieszczone_w_wydaniu_dziela_Claudii_Ptolemaei_Geographicae_enarrationis..jpg
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Laurence
              > > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 9:48 AM
              > > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: 1907 Villages Rusyn or Ukrainian or something else ? "Our People Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > /
              > >
              > > Professor Magocsi has *incorrectly* given to the scholarship about Carpatho-Rusyns that there were no Carpatho-Rusyns "at the outset of the 20th Century" in the area east of the San River and north of the current Transcarpathian oblast border. He states that they were Ukrainians. The people there before "the outset of the 20th Century" did not state that they were Ukrainians.
              > >
              > > _______
              > >
              > > Lavrentiy
              > >
              > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Here's a subset of villages I noticed listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol
              > > > 12 Galizien that I did NOT notice listed in Prof. Magosci's "Our People
              > > > Carpatho-Rusyns and Their Descendants in North America"
              > > >
              > > > To keep things short here's a few examples
              > > >
              > > > Looking at Drohobycz, Podbaz AND Sambor, Sambor AND Sambor, Laka
              > > > I just started looking so these were the first I noticed.
              > > >
              > > > Greek Catholics, %GK of Village, 1907 Name ---> Modern Name
              > > >
              > > > 610 GK, 95%, Bystrzyea, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Bystrytsia, Drohobych,
              > > > L?viv, Ukraine
              > > > 1649 GK, 89.9%, Dolhe Podbuskie, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Dovhe (along the
              > > > Stryj River), Drohobych, L?viv, Ukraine
              > > > 268 GK, 97.5%, Zdzianna, Drohobycz, Podbaz --> Zhdanivka, Drohobych,
              > > > L?viv, Ukraine
              > > >
              > > > 566 GK, 92.5%, Bykow, Sambor, Laka --> Bykiv, Drohobych, L'viv, Ukraine
              > > > 2849 GK, 96%, Dorozow, Sambor, Laka --> Verkhnyi Dorozhiv, Drohobych,
              > > > L'viv, Ukraine
              > > >
              > > > 1098 GK, 94.7%, Wykoty, Sambor, Sambor
              > > > 1709 GK, 73.0%, Wojutyeze, Sambor, Sambor
              > > >
              > > > 1) Were these villages Rusyn?
              > > >
              > > > 2) If one were to find villages listed in 1907 Gemeindelexikon Vol 12
              > > > Galizien Book listed as 90-100% Greek Catholic would they be Rusyn
              > > > Villages or possibly something else?
              > > >
              > > > 3) Prof. Magosci's "Our People Carpo-Rusyns and Their Descendants in
              > > > North America" lists 1100+ Rusyn villages. does anyone else have an
              > > > opinion of how many there were?
              > > >
              > > > thanks,
              > > > john magyari
              > > > www.lipowiec.org
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Michael
              Thanks for the information. It s very interesting. Michael.
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 4, 2011
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                Thanks for the information. It's very interesting. Michael.

                --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Danuta Janina Wójcik <sandlily@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > According to Slownik - The village name Teofipolka was named after Teophilus Sieniawska, daughter of Hetman of the Polish Crown, Nicholas Jerome Sieniawski (Mikolaj Hieronim Sieniawski), who served under the army of King John Sobieski. Hetman Sieniawski's duty was to protect the Eastern Borderlands. He was also Governor of Lwow and Wolyn - 1679/1680.
                >
                > Teophila's mother was Cecilia Maria Radziwill, daughter of Duke and Grand Marshall of Lithuania - Alexsander Ludwig Radziwill.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Laurence
                > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 10:54 AM
                > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Krasnopilka
                >
                >
                >
                > Michael,
                >
                > Teofipilka is the Rusyn-Ukrainian name of the place. Poles gradually settled in the area and they called the place either Teofipolka or Krasnopolka. I do not know why Krasnopolka was an alternate name used by Poles. Perhaps in the book that I sent in another posting might have some information. The book was in Polish language.
                >
                > Here's is Slownik G. entry:
                >
                > http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XII/298
                >
                > _____
                >
                > Lavrentiy
                >
                > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <micrudy@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Lavrentiy - Thanks for the messages and all of your help. Yes, I thought it might be Teofipolka/Teofipilka from the Naturalization Petition of Mary's husband, Michal Bernecki, which says his wife was born there. Do you have any idea why the place had two names? Was one Ukrainian and one Polish? Best, Michael.
                > >
                > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > /
                > > >
                > > > The Krasnopilka/Krasnopolka which is in Galicia is typically referred to as Teofipolka/Teofipilka.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Teofipilka is near Berezhany - here's a map:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tt84au
                > > >
                > > > _______
                > > >
                > > > Lavrentiy
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <micrudy@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > The Naturalization Petition of my great-aunt Maria Rajca states she was born in Krasnopilka, Galicia. I haven't been able to find such a place. Does anyone have any ideas? Many thanks for your help.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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