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Re: Lviv Vistula Resettlement Lists

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  • krupniak
    John, Ukrainian State Archive in L viv has no Operation Vistula records. Operation Vistula occurred with the borders of Poland. Poland State Archive has the
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
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      John,

      Ukrainian State Archive in L'viv has no Operation Vistula records. Operation Vistula occurred with the borders of Poland. Poland State Archive has the records.

      _______

      Lavrentiy



      --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
      > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
      > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents related
      > to your research?
      >
      > Do we know how detailed it is?
      >
      > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
      > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep, etc.?
      >
      > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
      > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
      > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
      > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the Vistula
      > relocation?
      >
      > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
      > other records might exist?
      >
      > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names from
      > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they ended up?
      >
      > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to one
      > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
      >
      > thanks,
      > john magyari
      >
      > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka, Kopij,
      > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
      >
    • Chris Smolinski
      What s the relevance to Galicia? In doing my family history research, I ve discovered what seems to be a higher than expected number of twins from my
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        What's the relevance to Galicia? In doing my family history
        research, I've discovered what seems to be a higher than expected
        number of twins from my ancestral village of Gologory (and certainly
        in my own family history). We've had a brief discussion before I
        believe on this list about higher than average rates of twinning in
        Galicia. I wonder if there was "something in the water" in Gologory.
        Has anyone else noticed a higher than expected number of twins in
        their Galicia research? I need to crunch the numbers on my data and
        see what the actual results are.


        The village is home to as many as 230 sets of twins. Nobody knows why
        there are so many twins in the village of 15,000 people, although one
        local doctor suspects it might be due to the water.

        In fact with about 35-45 twins per live birth, this village in North
        Kerala, India, has four times more twins than normal. Not
        surprisingly, the village has been dubbed "the twin village."

        For the full article:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090805/lf_nm_life/us_india_twins

        --

        ---
        Chris Smolinski
        Black Cat Systems
        http://www.blackcatsystems.com
      • ladyguilford
        [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed it before I
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
          days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
          it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]

          John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyœl. I
          have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
          description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
          and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
          animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
          to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
          I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of weeks.

          There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where the
          persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
          villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
          few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
          many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
          destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
          records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
          found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
          villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
          Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.

          I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
          people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
          Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
          (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
          They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
          join their families there.

          I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
          National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
          looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
          who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
          very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.

          http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
          ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
          <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
          Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>

          There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into one
          of our families living just over the mountain into present-day Slovakia.
          They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed the
          carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
          no bells.

          Oh, and the archives at Przemyœl in September of 2007 allowed no
          form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
          at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
          xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry you
          had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
          row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of the
          cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
          allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in the
          photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
          starting a rumour.

          I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
          more.

          Sandra



          --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
          <jmagyari@...> wrote:
          >
          > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
          > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
          > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents related
          > to your research?
          >
          > Do we know how detailed it is?
          >
          > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
          > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
          etc.?
          >
          > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
          > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
          > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
          > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the Vistula
          > relocation?
          >
          > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
          > other records might exist?
          >
          > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
          from
          > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they ended
          up?
          >
          > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
          one
          > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
          >
          > thanks,
          > john magyari
          >
          > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
          Kopij,
          > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Danuta Janina Wójcik
          Yes, Institute of National Remembrance can help with the Operation Vistula info, I mentioned this a few weeks ago. But you need, precise names, birth dates
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Yes, Institute of National Remembrance can help with the Operation Vistula info, I mentioned this a few weeks ago. But you need, precise names, birth dates etc. You can write to them by e-mail and they will reply by letter.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ladyguilford
            To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:36 PM
            Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Lviv Vistula Resettlement Lists



            [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
            days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
            it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]

            John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyol. I
            have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
            description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
            and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
            animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
            to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
            I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of weeks.

            There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where the
            persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
            villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
            few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
            many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
            destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
            records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
            found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
            villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
            Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.

            I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
            people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
            Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
            (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
            They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
            join their families there.

            I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
            National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
            looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
            who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
            very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.

            http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
            ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
            <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
            Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>

            There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into one
            of our families living just over the mountain into present-day Slovakia.
            They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed the
            carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
            no bells.

            Oh, and the archives at Przemyol in September of 2007 allowed no
            form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
            at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
            xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry you
            had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
            row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of the
            cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
            allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in the
            photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
            starting a rumour.

            I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
            more.

            Sandra

            --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
            <jmagyari@...> wrote:
            >
            > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
            > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
            > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents related
            > to your research?
            >
            > Do we know how detailed it is?
            >
            > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
            > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
            etc.?
            >
            > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
            > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
            > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
            > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the Vistula
            > relocation?
            >
            > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
            > other records might exist?
            >
            > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
            from
            > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they ended
            up?
            >
            > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
            one
            > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
            >
            > thanks,
            > john magyari
            >
            > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
            Kopij,
            > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Danuta Janina Wójcik
            During the resettlement of Operation Vistuala in 1947, no one was moved to Ukraine. The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking about
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              During the resettlement of Operation Vistuala in 1947, no one was moved to Ukraine.

              The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges prior to 1947.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: ladyguilford
              To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:36 PM
              Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Lviv Vistula Resettlement Lists



              [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
              days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
              it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]

              John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyol. I
              have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
              description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
              and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
              animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
              to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
              I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of weeks.

              There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where the
              persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
              villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
              few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
              many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
              destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
              records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
              found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
              villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
              Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.

              I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
              people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
              Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
              (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
              They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
              join their families there.

              I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
              National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
              looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
              who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
              very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.

              http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
              ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
              <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
              Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>

              There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into one
              of our families living just over the mountain into present-day Slovakia.
              They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed the
              carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
              no bells.

              Oh, and the archives at Przemyol in September of 2007 allowed no
              form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
              at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
              xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry you
              had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
              row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of the
              cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
              allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in the
              photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
              starting a rumour.

              I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
              more.

              Sandra

              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
              <jmagyari@...> wrote:
              >
              > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
              > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
              > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents related
              > to your research?
              >
              > Do we know how detailed it is?
              >
              > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
              > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
              etc.?
              >
              > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
              > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
              > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
              > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the Vistula
              > relocation?
              >
              > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
              > other records might exist?
              >
              > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
              from
              > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they ended
              up?
              >
              > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
              one
              > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
              >
              > thanks,
              > john magyari
              >
              > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
              Kopij,
              > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Stamm
              ... Not again! Sandra is correct. Please don t post guesses here, unless you explain that you are only guessing. It doesn t help anyone. -Jim
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Danuta Janina Wójcik wrote:

                > The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking
                > about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges
                > prior to 1947.

                Not again! Sandra is correct. Please don't post "guesses" here,
                unless you explain that you are only guessing. It doesn't help anyone.

                -Jim
              • ladyguilford
                That IS exactly what I said. ... moved to Ukraine. ... about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges prior to 1947. ... weeks. ... the
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  That IS exactly what I said.


                  --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Danuta Janina Wójcik
                  <sandlily@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > During the resettlement of Operation Vistuala in 1947, no one was
                  moved to Ukraine.
                  >
                  > The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking
                  about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges
                  prior to 1947.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: ladyguilford
                  > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:36 PM
                  > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Lviv Vistula Resettlement Lists
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
                  > days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
                  > it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]
                  >
                  > John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyol. I
                  > have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
                  > description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
                  > and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
                  > animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
                  > to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
                  > I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of
                  weeks.
                  >
                  > There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where
                  the
                  > persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
                  > villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
                  > few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
                  > many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
                  > destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
                  > records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
                  > found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
                  > villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
                  > Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.
                  >
                  > I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
                  > people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
                  > Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
                  > (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
                  > They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
                  > join their families there.
                  >
                  > I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
                  > National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
                  > looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
                  > who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
                  > very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.
                  >
                  >
                  http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
                  \
                  > ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                  >
                  <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                  \
                  > Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>
                  >
                  > There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into
                  one
                  > of our families living just over the mountain into present-day
                  Slovakia.
                  > They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed
                  the
                  > carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
                  > no bells.
                  >
                  > Oh, and the archives at Przemyol in September of 2007 allowed no
                  > form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
                  > at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
                  > xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry
                  you
                  > had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
                  > row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of
                  the
                  > cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
                  > allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in
                  the
                  > photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
                  > starting a rumour.
                  >
                  > I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
                  > more.
                  >
                  > Sandra
                  >
                  > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
                  > jmagyari@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
                  > > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
                  > > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents
                  related
                  > > to your research?
                  > >
                  > > Do we know how detailed it is?
                  > >
                  > > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
                  > > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
                  > etc.?
                  > >
                  > > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
                  > > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
                  > > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
                  > > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the
                  Vistula
                  > > relocation?
                  > >
                  > > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
                  > > other records might exist?
                  > >
                  > > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
                  > from
                  > > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they
                  ended
                  > up?
                  > >
                  > > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
                  > one
                  > > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
                  > >
                  > > thanks,
                  > > john magyari
                  > >
                  > > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
                  > Kopij,
                  > > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • ladyguilford
                  The records are dated 29th and 30th of April, and the first few days of May, in 1947. The files from which they came are clearly labelled Akcja Wis³a. Given
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The records are dated 29th and 30th of April, and the first few days of
                    May, in 1947. The files from which they came are clearly labelled Akcja
                    Wis³a. Given to me by someone whose specialist interest is in that
                    operation. I repeat: there is NOTHING in the files about where they are
                    going. They are files about what they are leaving.

                    I would appreciate being treated with respect, as would everyone in this
                    forum.


                    --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Danuta Janina Wójcik
                    <sandlily@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > During the resettlement of Operation Vistuala in 1947, no one was
                    moved to Ukraine.
                    >
                    > The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking
                    about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges
                    prior to 1947.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: ladyguilford
                    > To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 2:36 PM
                    > Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: Lviv Vistula Resettlement Lists
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
                    > days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
                    > it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]
                    >
                    > John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyol. I
                    > have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
                    > description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
                    > and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
                    > animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
                    > to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
                    > I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of
                    weeks.
                    >
                    > There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where
                    the
                    > persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
                    > villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
                    > few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
                    > many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
                    > destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
                    > records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
                    > found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
                    > villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
                    > Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.
                    >
                    > I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
                    > people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
                    > Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
                    > (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
                    > They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
                    > join their families there.
                    >
                    > I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
                    > National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
                    > looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
                    > who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
                    > very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.
                    >
                    >
                    http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
                    \
                    > ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                    >
                    <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                    \
                    > Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>
                    >
                    > There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into
                    one
                    > of our families living just over the mountain into present-day
                    Slovakia.
                    > They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed
                    the
                    > carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
                    > no bells.
                    >
                    > Oh, and the archives at Przemyol in September of 2007 allowed no
                    > form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
                    > at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
                    > xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry
                    you
                    > had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
                    > row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of
                    the
                    > cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
                    > allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in
                    the
                    > photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
                    > starting a rumour.
                    >
                    > I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
                    > more.
                    >
                    > Sandra
                    >
                    > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
                    > jmagyari@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
                    > > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
                    > > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents
                    related
                    > > to your research?
                    > >
                    > > Do we know how detailed it is?
                    > >
                    > > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
                    > > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
                    > etc.?
                    > >
                    > > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
                    > > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
                    > > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
                    > > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the
                    Vistula
                    > > relocation?
                    > >
                    > > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
                    > > other records might exist?
                    > >
                    > > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
                    > from
                    > > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they
                    ended
                    > up?
                    > >
                    > > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
                    > one
                    > > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
                    > >
                    > > thanks,
                    > > john magyari
                    > >
                    > > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
                    > Kopij,
                    > > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John Magyari
                    Ladyguilford, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Many times I don t ask my questions in the ideal way. But I m always trying to find information that will help
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ladyguilford,

                      Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

                      Many times I don't ask my questions in the ideal way.
                      But I'm always trying to find information that will help me,
                      as well as others in our search for information.

                      Your ability to look at my questions, and look beyond my incorrectly
                      phased questions and provide possible solutions is wonderful.

                      Your response was so meaningful and detailed.

                      Thank you for sharing a very descriptive response that I hope one day I can
                      apply in my research efforts.

                      I learn new things all the time from this forum but many times, it's
                      difficult for
                      me to put all the small pieces of information together as quickly as I
                      would like.

                      Your personal experience and detailed response is greatly appreciated,
                      john magyari


                      ladyguilford wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
                      > days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has destroyed
                      > it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]
                      >
                      > John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyoel. I
                      > have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an exhaustive
                      > description of each family's property, inhabitants (age, relationship)
                      > and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
                      > animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be going
                      > to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and then
                      > I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of weeks.
                      >
                      > There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where the
                      > persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in these
                      > villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine. A
                      > few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to convince
                      > many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
                      > destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
                      > records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
                      > found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
                      > villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
                      > Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.
                      >
                      > I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where these
                      > people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
                      > Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
                      > (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new places.
                      > They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance to
                      > join their families there.
                      >
                      > I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
                      > National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
                      > looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
                      > who might possibly know something and who may not retain their marbles
                      > very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.
                      >
                      > http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
                      > ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                      > <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>
                      > <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                      > Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                      > <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>>
                      >
                      > There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into one
                      > of our families living just over the mountain into present-day Slovakia.
                      > They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed the
                      > carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others ring
                      > no bells.
                      >
                      > Oh, and the archives at Przemyoel in September of 2007 allowed no
                      > form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
                      > at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make a
                      > xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry you
                      > had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
                      > row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of the
                      > cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might be
                      > allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in the
                      > photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am probably
                      > starting a rumour.
                      >
                      > I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
                      > more.
                      >
                      > Sandra
                      >
                      > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:GaliciaPoland-Ukraine%40yahoogroups.com>, John Magyari
                      > <jmagyari@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in the
                      > > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
                      > > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents related
                      > > to your research?
                      > >
                      > > Do we know how detailed it is?
                      > >
                      > > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
                      > > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
                      > etc.?
                      > >
                      > > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok, Vistula
                      > > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
                      > > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
                      > > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the Vistula
                      > > relocation?
                      > >
                      > > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know where
                      > > other records might exist?
                      > >
                      > > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
                      > from
                      > > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they ended
                      > up?
                      > >
                      > > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent to
                      > one
                      > > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
                      > >
                      > > thanks,
                      > > john magyari
                      > >
                      > > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
                      > Kopij,
                      > > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
                      > >
                      >
                      > [
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • krupniak
                      ... Researching People Lost in Operation Vistula (Akcja Wisla) Witam Villagers, Some time ago, some of you were interested in contact information in regards to
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Danuta Janina W󪣩k wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes, Institute of National Remembrance can help with the Operation Vistula info, I mentioned this a few weeks ago. But you need, precise names, birth dates etc. You can write to them by e-mail and they will reply by letter.



                        Researching People Lost in Operation Vistula (Akcja Wisla)

                        Witam Villagers,

                        Some time ago, some of you were interested in contact information in regards to Operation Vistula. I have written to the Instytut Pamieci Narodowej (The Institute of National Remembrance - The Commission For
                        The Prosecution of Crimes Against the Polish Nation and have received a reply.

                        So, if anyone is interested in receiving information on your loved ones that were part of Operation Vistula, this is where to write. You may e-mail them directly and in English - does not have to be in the Polish Language sekretariat.ipn@... and they will respond by registered letter within two to three months.

                        http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/35/1/Brief_history.html


                        -----------------

                        Hello Danuta,

                        Perhaps you can shed some light on a subject for me. I remember as a child (in the 1940's) my father receiving a (smuggled) letter from his sister in Poland (who had stayed in Dudynce, Poland and was given the family farm). She later married. They were Greek Catholics. She stated in the letter that the Russians "came in the night" and loaded the elderly (and some not that old) into trucks. They (including my relatives) were taken to Siberia and "dumped in the snow" to fend for themselves. In later years, contact was made between my grandfather here in the US and my aunt in Siberia and they corresponded. Upon my grandfather's death nobody evidently thought it important to keep my aunt's address and so that branch of the family is now a mystery to me. Is this part of being "resettled" that you spoke of? Where would I find further information regarding my family's location in Siberia?

                        Since it happened over 60 years ago and I was a small child at the time...I really don't know exactly what year this occurred. I do remember that the family discussed that the letter had been smuggled into the US (by whom I don't know) and didn't come via regular mail. The Russians referred to evidently were the Russian soldiers that occupied the Dudynce, PL area during that era. Thank you for any information you might have. Have a great day,
                        Mary-Ann


                        The period of time that your relatives cruelly where deported was the beginning of the Holocaust, shortly after the 1939 September Campaign (Defence War). The Defence War lasted from September 1, 1939 to October, 1939. The Nazis and Soviets were in joint control of that area, where your relatives lived.

                        Prior to the Defence War, Hitler made it clear the Poles (inhabitants of Poland - all Polish citizens) were Untermenschen (subhumans), who occupied a land, which was part of the Lebensraum (living space) that belonged to the superior German race. The Poles were subjected to a program of extermination and enslavement. As Hitler stated, "Be merciless! Be brutal... it is necessary to proceed with maximum severity.... The war is to be a war of annihilation."

                        Deportation started, around February 1940 in the cold of winter, and they came knocking in the middle of the night. Some Poles were sent to Forced Labour Camps, under the newly formed German General Government and some Poles were sent East by the Soviets to the Gulag.


                        To make contact with your family try:
                        Centralne Biuro Adresowe
                        Sekcja Zapytan Zagranicznych
                        ul. Kazimierzowska 60
                        02-543 Warszawa
                        POLAND


                        "You can write your letter in English. They will reply in Polish. Give them as much information as you can. A must is the village or town in which they lived and the province. Give as much information as you can, i. e. your ancestors full name (using maiden names, also), dates of birth, siblings names and where they were from. In other words, you are giving them all the data they need for you to connect with the known relative you wish to contact. Give them that person's full name and their ancestors.

                        They will not let you know where your relatives are. They will contact them, and if they wish to reach you, they will. Send a letter to your relative in another envelope for them to mail it to them. Tell them the relationship to this person you wish to contact and how you connect with them as a relative."

                        Pozdrawiam

                        Danuta - Daughter of Non Jewish Holocaust Survivors

                        From:

                        http://www.dpcamps.org/operationVistula.html
                      • krupniak
                        Jim, Well, be kind since there is confusion because Sandra described the Departure Cards for Akcja Wisla resettlements, while John Magyari is seeeking
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jim,

                          Well, be kind since there is confusion because Sandra described the Departure Cards for Akcja Wisla resettlements, while John Magyari is seeeking information about persons where were deported to Ukraine.

                          So Jim, inform John Magyari where he can find records on the persons who were deported to Ukraine. Don't post guesses..that doesn't help us.

                          _________

                          Lavrentiy




                          Jim Stamm <JimStamm@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Danuta Janina W󪣩k wrote:
                          >
                          > > The Departure Cards from Przemysl State Archives, you are speaking
                          > > about is either the deportation in 1940 or the population exchanges
                          > > prior to 1947.
                          >
                          > Not again! Sandra is correct. Please don't post "guesses" here,
                          > unless you explain that you are only guessing. It doesn't help anyone.
                          >
                          > -Jim
                          >
                        • krupniak
                          ... ******* But John Magyari wants information about persons who were deported to Ukraine. _______ Lavrntiy
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            "ladyguilford" wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > That IS exactly what I said.


                            *******

                            But John Magyari wants information about persons who were deported to Ukraine.

                            _______

                            Lavrntiy
                          • ladyguilford
                            Thank you, John, for your very kind words. Sandra ... I can ... destroyed ... exhaustive ... relationship) ... going ... then ... weeks. ... the ... these ...
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 7, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thank you, John, for your very kind words.

                              Sandra
                              --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari
                              <jmagyari@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ladyguilford,
                              >
                              > Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
                              >
                              > Many times I don't ask my questions in the ideal way.
                              > But I'm always trying to find information that will help me,
                              > as well as others in our search for information.
                              >
                              > Your ability to look at my questions, and look beyond my incorrectly
                              > phased questions and provide possible solutions is wonderful.
                              >
                              > Your response was so meaningful and detailed.
                              >
                              > Thank you for sharing a very descriptive response that I hope one day
                              I can
                              > apply in my research efforts.
                              >
                              > I learn new things all the time from this forum but many times, it's
                              > difficult for
                              > me to put all the small pieces of information together as quickly as I
                              > would like.
                              >
                              > Your personal experience and detailed response is greatly appreciated,
                              > john magyari
                              >
                              >
                              > ladyguilford wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [I cannnot believe this. I have written to you twice over recent few
                              > > days, including to an earlier e-mail. Something bizarre has
                              destroyed
                              > > it before I completed it! Very frustrating.]
                              > >
                              > > John, I have visited the Polish National Archives at Przemyoel. I
                              > > have seen the original Departure Cards. There is indeed an
                              exhaustive
                              > > description of each family's property, inhabitants (age,
                              relationship)
                              > > and the bits outdoors (outbuildings, tools, trees or garden patches,
                              > > animals). The cards say only which railway car the group will be
                              going
                              > > to. I think they trudged for many days before they got there, and
                              then
                              > > I understand they waited in the railway carriages for a matter of
                              weeks.
                              > >
                              > > There is nothing on that collection of records which indicates where
                              the
                              > > persons are going once the train sets off. Previously, people in
                              these
                              > > villages were invited to move to the more glorious land in Ukraine.
                              A
                              > > few menaces, particularly involving taxes, were sufficient to
                              convince
                              > > many of them. My own village of Polany Surowiczne was emptied and
                              > > destroyed about a year before Akcja Wis³a. However, we inspected
                              > > records of many surrounding or nearby villages, in many of which we
                              > > found one or two people who had vanished off the family radar. These
                              > > villages include Dol¿yce, Wola Ni¿na, Wola Wy¿na, Dalowa,
                              > > Posada Jas³iska, Czeremche, and Lipowiec.
                              > >
                              > > I have not yet tackled the problem of exactly how to find where
                              these
                              > > people were sent. It is known that they were sent to the Recovered
                              > > Territories up near the Baltic Sea. No more than some small figure
                              > > (<10, I recall) could live in the same general area in the new
                              places.
                              > > They were particularly not sent to Ukraine, so there was no chance
                              to
                              > > join their families there.
                              > >
                              > > I have a suspicion --- and only a suspicion --- the Institute of
                              > > National Remembrance should have this stuff, but I haven't started
                              > > looking. I have been working on interviewing all those aging persons
                              > > who might possibly know something and who may not retain their
                              marbles
                              > > very much longer. That involves a lot of travel. Priorities.
                              > >
                              > >
                              http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__C\
                              \
                              > > ommission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                              > >
                              <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                              Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>
                              > >
                              <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                              \
                              > > Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html
                              > >
                              <http://www.ipn.gov.pl/portal/en/1/2/Institute_of_National_Remembrance__\
                              Commission_for_the_Prosecution_of_Crimes_agai.html>>
                              > >
                              > > There is one female relative of the Kostick family who married into
                              one
                              > > of our families living just over the mountain into present-day
                              Slovakia.
                              > > They went off to the land of streets paved with gold, so they missed
                              the
                              > > carnage back home. That surname I see is one of yours. The others
                              ring
                              > > no bells.
                              > >
                              > > Oh, and the archives at Przemyoel in September of 2007 allowed no
                              > > form of copying or digital photography. In a very few instances, and
                              > > at a relatively high cost for one page, a member of staff would make
                              a
                              > > xerox copy for you of, for example, a birth, death or marriage entry
                              you
                              > > had found. The other entries on the page would be masked. The title
                              > > row would however be included. Not long ago, I saw a new listing of
                              the
                              > > cost of their services, and there was a hint that photography might
                              be
                              > > allowed. There was a phrase something like "using own equipment" in
                              the
                              > > photography section. But my Polish is such rubbish that I am
                              probably
                              > > starting a rumour.
                              > >
                              > > I look forward to where you go on this matter, and I'd like to hear
                              > > more.
                              > >
                              > > Sandra
                              > >
                              > > --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:GaliciaPoland-Ukraine%40yahoogroups.com>, John Magyari
                              > > jmagyari@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Has anyone seen the Resettlement Lists for Operation Vistula in
                              the
                              > > > Ukrainian State Archive of Lviv?
                              > > > If you went there were you able to get a scan of the documents
                              related
                              > > > to your research?
                              > > >
                              > > > Do we know how detailed it is?
                              > > >
                              > > > Does it contain the household head "Name and Surname", or does it
                              > > > possibly list everyone relocated from the village, #cows, #sheep,
                              > > etc.?
                              > > >
                              > > > Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that possibly Sanok,
                              Vistula
                              > > > resettlement records are in Lviv, do we know if Lviv has all the
                              > > > detailed and village records for all areas including Sanok, what
                              > > > personal / villages are in the archives at Lviv related to the
                              Vistula
                              > > > relocation?
                              > > >
                              > > > If all the records are not in the archives in Lviv, do we know
                              where
                              > > > other records might exist?
                              > > >
                              > > > I'd like to eventually see the detailed information, all the names
                              > > from
                              > > > the village of Lipowiec resettled, what was recorded, where they
                              ended
                              > > up?
                              > > >
                              > > > When people form villages were relocated were WHOLE villages sent
                              to
                              > > one
                              > > > area, or were they divided up in to many different areas?
                              > > >
                              > > > thanks,
                              > > > john magyari
                              > > >
                              > > > researching village of Lipowiec near Jasliska, surnames Warianka,
                              > > Kopij,
                              > > > Michalik, Kostycz, Johas, Wasiczko, Hiryla, Lahockohi.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • John Magyari
                              I ve learned so much over the last few days reading many posts. 1) It would be interesting if anyone has seen the Lviv Soviet documents and could indicate how
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 7, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I've learned so much over the last few days reading many posts.

                                1) It would be interesting if anyone has seen the Lviv Soviet documents
                                and could indicate how detailed that information is?

                                2) From
                                http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/rich/wwii.htm
                                As a result of the agreement, between the spring of 1945 and the summer
                                of 1946 about 130,000 Lemkos (mostly from Ukrainophile Sanok and Lesko
                                counties and the war devastated Jaslo and Krosno counties)^25

                                clicking on the next page I then saw
                                http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/rich/vistular.htm
                                After these transfers, about 35,000 Lemkos remained in Poland, mostly in
                                the western Lemko Region.

                                Based on above it looks like between Soviet 1945-1946 movement of people
                                to Ukraine and April 28 to July 31, 1947 Vistula forced relocation.
                                1/5 eventually wound up in Poland and 4/5 in Ukraine.

                                I guess I was wonder if this seems correct that most people ended up in
                                4/5 in Ukraine and 1/5 in Northern and Western Poland after these 2
                                operation were completed?

                                thanks,
                                john


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • krupniak
                                John, Be cautious of information seen on one website. For example, Mr. Custer is only interested in Lemkos. He does not incorporate that Boikos were also
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 7, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  John,

                                  Be cautious of information seen on one website. For example, Mr. Custer is only interested in Lemkos. He does not incorporate that Boikos were also deported and relocated.


                                  From

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wis%C5%82a#Deportations_and_repressions

                                  the total number of Rusyns/Ukrainians who were relocated under Akcja Wisla is 130,000 - 140,000 persons.

                                  The proportions sent to Ukraine and to areas within Poland need to be recalculated.

                                  ________

                                  Lavrentiy





                                  --- In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, John Magyari <jmagyari@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I've learned so much over the last few days reading many posts.
                                  >
                                  > 1) It would be interesting if anyone has seen the Lviv Soviet documents
                                  > and could indicate how detailed that information is?
                                  >
                                  > 2) From
                                  > http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/rich/wwii.htm
                                  > As a result of the agreement, between the spring of 1945 and the summer
                                  > of 1946 about 130,000 Lemkos (mostly from Ukrainophile Sanok and Lesko
                                  > counties and the war devastated Jaslo and Krosno counties)^25
                                  >
                                  > clicking on the next page I then saw
                                  > http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/rich/vistular.htm
                                  > After these transfers, about 35,000 Lemkos remained in Poland, mostly in
                                  > the western Lemko Region.
                                  >
                                  > Based on above it looks like between Soviet 1945-1946 movement of people
                                  > to Ukraine and April 28 to July 31, 1947 Vistula forced relocation.
                                  > 1/5 eventually wound up in Poland and 4/5 in Ukraine.
                                  >
                                  > I guess I was wonder if this seems correct that most people ended up in
                                  > 4/5 in Ukraine and 1/5 in Northern and Western Poland after these 2
                                  > operation were completed?
                                  >
                                  > thanks,
                                  > john
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
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