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Re: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Travel to Lviv

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  • Bohdan Yurkiv
    Judy If that is the case then you have rented in the best place possible if you like the night scene & action. I stayed with Bohdan in the centre myself 2
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 30, 2004
      Judy

      If that is the case then you have rented in the best place possible if you
      like the night scene & action.
      I stayed with Bohdan in the centre myself 2 years ago & can tell you it was
      the bustle place in Lviv, there are so many action places in that 2 kms on
      both sides.
      One of my favourite pastimes was just to sit opposite the Opera House for a
      couple of hours a day & watch the people go about their lives.... also you
      are near the market for both merchandise & food.
      Have a great time, always be wary of your money ( purse or wallet ) in my
      time there a number of the Polish tourists lost their wallets / purses but
      that happens everywhere.
      Hopefully when you come back you will detail your experiences here in text
      for others to appreciate Lviv.

      Svetlana
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Judith Hrynenko" <jkruzer@...>
      To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 3:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Travel to Lviv


      >
      > Thank you Svetlana,
      >
      > I have Bohdan's web site in my favourites but have not been on it for a
      few
      > months, will check it out.. We will be renting an apartment in Lviv
      across
      > from the Opera House and the hub bub of Lviv... looking forward to the
      > experience.. There must be an underground jazz club somewhere in Lviv..
      >
      > Wishing everyone a Fantastic Friday,
      > Judy
    • m most
      Morning All, I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus Mastranski s
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2004
        Morning All,

        I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
        Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
        Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
        but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
        Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
        naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.

        Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?

        Would it have been possible for a person to get both?

        I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
        US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
        obtain this second one?

        It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
        as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
        issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.

        Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
        I could find out more about it?

        46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
        manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
        Brzezany
        receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?

        Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
        Mike



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      • Helen Ginn
        Hello from Ontario, Canada This web address might be of help to you regarding naturalization in Canada. Helen Ginn http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/060303_e.html
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2004
          Hello from Ontario, Canada
          This web address might be of help to you regarding naturalization in Canada.
          Helen Ginn

          http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/06/060303_e.html

          m most <mostranskym@...> wrote:Morning All,

          I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
          Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
          Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
          but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
          Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
          naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.

          Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?

          Would it have been possible for a person to get both?

          I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
          US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
          obtain this second one?

          It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
          as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
          issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.

          Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
          I could find out more about it?

          46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
          manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
          Brzezany
          receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?

          Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
          Mike



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        • Barbara Tuz
          Hi Mike, My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he later settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2004
            Hi Mike,

            My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he later
            settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
            village) were "clearing brush" - cutting down trees and clearing fields for
            the building of train tracks.

            Barbara Tuz


            >From: m most <mostranskym@...>
            >Reply-To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            >To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis Island
            >& Canada?
            >Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
            >
            >Morning All,
            >
            >I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
            >Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
            >Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
            >but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
            >Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
            >naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
            >
            >Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
            >
            >Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
            >
            >I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
            >US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
            >obtain this second one?
            >
            >It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
            >as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
            >issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
            >
            >Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
            >I could find out more about it?
            >
            >46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
            >manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
            >Brzezany
            >receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
            >
            >Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
            >Mike
            >
            >
            >
            >__________________________________
            >Do you Yahoo!?
            >Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
            >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

            _________________________________________________________________
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          • JOHN AND GLORIA
            Hi Sorry but I was not monitoring for a bit and I missed the start of this thread. Where did the phrase CNR Scheme to Winnipeg come from. It implys that
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2004
              Hi
              Sorry but I was not monitoring for a bit and I missed the start of this
              thread. Where did the phrase "CNR Scheme to Winnipeg" come from. It implys
              that Ukrainian immigrants were subsidised in exchange for a work contract?
              Or am I wrong. I have never heard of this before. But then my research into
              Ruthenian/Ukrainian immigration to Canada is focused on the first wave group
              which terminated in late 1913. If this something that showed up in the
              naturalization process. You can get fairly detailed stuff on the newcomers
              when they applied for Naturalization from the federal government in Ottawa
              if you are a relative and can prove it and can prove the guy has been dead
              for a while. I do not know the details of how this is done but a friend just
              went through it and has the info. In this case she got an RCMPolice report
              filed by the officer that went out to the fellows homestead and interviewed
              him and filled in a standard RCMP form on the applicant includeing what the
              officer thought of the applicant in general (ie was he intelligent or not).
              It even gives details of the officers trip to the homestead and the
              transportation used.
              Not all immigrants, especially Ruthenians got Naturalized in the early
              1900s. Only the "man of the house" had to do it.And they only did it when
              they wanted to get land title to the homestead they were living on. They
              needed to swear allegence to the Queen in order to get the land title.
              In later years it was done in order to qualify for Old Age Security and
              ofter happened when this "head" was getting on in years.
              Let me know the origin of this phraze please, It is of cource true that the
              vast majority of Galician Ruthenians that entered Canada in the first wave
              of 1896 to 1913 worked either full or part time for either the CNR or CPR
              railways in Canada. There were only 2.. But this is the first indication I
              have heard of a connection with trans-atlantic transportation if that is
              what it is all about
              Regards
              John Laporte
              Beausejour,MB
              Canada

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Barbara Tuz" <tuzb@...>
              To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:28 PM
              Subject: RE: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
              Island & Canada?


              >
              > Hi Mike,
              >
              > My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he later
              > settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
              > village) were "clearing brush" - cutting down trees and clearing fields
              > for
              > the building of train tracks.
              >
              > Barbara Tuz
              >
              >
              >>From: m most <mostranskym@...>
              >>Reply-To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
              >>To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
              >>Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis Island
              >>& Canada?
              >>Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
              >>
              >>Morning All,
              >>
              >>I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
              >>Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
              >>Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
              >>but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
              >>Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
              >>naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
              >>
              >>Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
              >>
              >>Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
              >>
              >>I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
              >>US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
              >>obtain this second one?
              >>
              >>It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
              >>as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
              >>issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
              >>
              >>Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
              >>I could find out more about it?
              >>
              >>46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
              >>manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
              >>Brzezany
              >>receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
              >>
              >>Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
              >>Mike
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>__________________________________
              >>Do you Yahoo!?
              >>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
              >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
              >
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              >
            • Helen Ginn
              JOHN AND GLORIA wrote: John: This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but an interesting site regarding the railway.
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                JOHN AND GLORIA <jlgl@...> wrote:
                John:

                This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but an interesting site regarding the railway.

                http://www.cnlines.com/cycl/


                Hi
                Sorry but I was not monitoring for a bit and I missed the start of this
                thread. Where did the phrase "CNR Scheme to Winnipeg" come from. It implys
                that Ukrainian immigrants were subsidised in exchange for a work contract?
                Or am I wrong. I have never heard of this before. But then my research into
                Ruthenian/Ukrainian immigration to Canada is focused on the first wave group
                which terminated in late 1913. If this something that showed up in the
                naturalization process. You can get fairly detailed stuff on the newcomers
                when they applied for Naturalization from the federal government in Ottawa
                if you are a relative and can prove it and can prove the guy has been dead
                for a while. I do not know the details of how this is done but a friend just
                went through it and has the info. In this case she got an RCMPolice report
                filed by the officer that went out to the fellows homestead and interviewed
                him and filled in a standard RCMP form on the applicant includeing what the
                officer thought of the applicant in general (ie was he intelligent or not).
                It even gives details of the officers trip to the homestead and the
                transportation used.
                Not all immigrants, especially Ruthenians got Naturalized in the early
                1900s. Only the "man of the house" had to do it.And they only did it when
                they wanted to get land title to the homestead they were living on. They
                needed to swear allegence to the Queen in order to get the land title.
                In later years it was done in order to qualify for Old Age Security and
                ofter happened when this "head" was getting on in years.
                Let me know the origin of this phraze please, It is of cource true that the
                vast majority of Galician Ruthenians that entered Canada in the first wave
                of 1896 to 1913 worked either full or part time for either the CNR or CPR
                railways in Canada. There were only 2.. But this is the first indication I
                have heard of a connection with trans-atlantic transportation if that is
                what it is all about
                Regards
                John Laporte
                Beausejour,MB
                Canada

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Barbara Tuz"
                To:
                Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:28 PM
                Subject: RE: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                Island & Canada?


                >
                > Hi Mike,
                >
                > My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he later
                > settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
                > village) were "clearing brush" - cutting down trees and clearing fields
                > for
                > the building of train tracks.
                >
                > Barbara Tuz
                >
                >
                >>From: m most
                >>Reply-To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                >>To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                >>Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis Island
                >>& Canada?
                >>Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
                >>
                >>Morning All,
                >>
                >>I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
                >>Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                >>Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
                >>but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
                >>Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
                >>naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
                >>
                >>Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                >>
                >>Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
                >>
                >>I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
                >>US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
                >>obtain this second one?
                >>
                >>It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
                >>as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
                >>issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                >>
                >>Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
                >>I could find out more about it?
                >>
                >>46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
                >>manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                >>Brzezany
                >>receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
                >>
                >>Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                >>Mike
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>__________________________________
                >>Do you Yahoo!?
                >>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > MSN� Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling
                > get-togethers.
                > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
                > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the
                > first two months FREE*.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >






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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Angela Birt
                Collections Canada has a bit about this http://www.collectionscanada.ca/05/0529/052920/05292081_e.html Angela Winnipeg,
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                  Collections Canada has a bit about this


                  http://www.collectionscanada.ca/05/0529/052920/05292081_e.html

                  Angela
                  Winnipeg,
                • Laurence Krupnak
                  ... How do you know they are the same person? The only thing that 1-430516-8-21-43 provides to you right now is that on August 21, 1943 that passenger s
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                    m most wrote:
                    >
                    > Morning All,
                    >
                    > I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
                    > Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                    > Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
                    > but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
                    > Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax, Nova Scotia with yet another
                    > naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.


                    How do you know they are the same person? The only thing that
                    1-430516-8-21-43 provides to you right now is that on August 21, 1943
                    that passenger's arrival in the US was verified by the US INS in
                    response to that person's filing a Petition to become a US citizen.



                    On the Canadian manifest what does the date 20/8/43 refer to?





                    > Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                    > Would it have been possible for a person to get both?



                    How could a person apply for Canadian citizenship and US citizenship at
                    the same time. A person must reside in the US continuously for 5
                    years.


                    >
                    > I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
                    > US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
                    > obtain this second one?


                    Canada.



                    > It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
                    > as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
                    > issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                    >
                    > Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
                    > I could find out more about it?
                    >
                    > 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address?



                    4.II.26 is a date.... 4 February 1926. In 1926, Brzezany was in Poland
                    ...it would have been a Polish passport that he possessed.



                    > If the Canadian
                    > manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                    > Brzezany
                    > receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?


                    He had a Polish passport. Passports are issued by the country where a
                    people is a citzizen, not the country traveling to. Visas are issued
                    by the country to which one wants to travel to. In 1926 all p-erson
                    traveling to the US needed an entry visa. The visa weas issued by the
                    US Consulate.




                    >
                    > Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                    > Mike


                    ______

                    Lavrentiy

                    .
                    .
                    .
                  • D. A. Reimer
                    Hello All, This quote from an article authored by a fellow list member - Lindy Kasperski may help to understand the CNR/CPR scheme a little bit. This article
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                      Hello All,

                      This quote from an article authored by a fellow list member - Lindy
                      Kasperski may help to understand the CNR/CPR scheme a little bit. This
                      article **Polish Immigration to Canada - Some Sources and Information
                      **was forwarded to me by Lindy and appeared in a November 2002 Gen Dobry
                      Issue. It is not the whole article, just a few paragraphs dealing with
                      the CNR/CPR.

                      > http://www.archives.ca/02/0201_e.html
                      >
                      > This is the ArchiviaNet table of contents. It is a great source of
                      > information for genealogical research using Canadian sources. Clicking on
                      > "Immigration Records (1925 to 1935)" gets you an important search engine for
                      > Polish and Ukrainian genealogical research. There were approximately 110,000
                      > arrivals from Poland between 1925 and 1930, a wave that included Ukrainians,
                      > Jews, Germans and Belarusians in addition to Poles. It is important to
                      > remember that changes in U.S. immigration policies in 1921 and 1926 led to a
                      > complete cessation of Polish immigration. Many eventually ended up in the US
                      > via Canada and its ports: Montreal, Quebec, Saint John and Halifax.
                      >

                      Then he goes on to say.......

                      > The information on
                      > the database gives the date of arrival, port and ship of the
                      > immigrant. You
                      > then must order the microfilm reel from the Archives using the number
                      > provided. Instructions for doing this are on the website. The
                      > information on
                      > these records is more detailed than pre-First World War records.
                      > Information
                      > from the following questions are contained in the record:
                      >
                      > Family Name; Given Name; Relationship of Travelling Companions; Age;
                      > Marital
                      > Status; Country of Birth; Place of Birth; Nationality (Country of
                      > Which a
                      > Citizen/Subject); Race or People; In Canada Before, Between What
                      > Periods? If
                      > in Canada Before, At What Address? Ever Refused Entry to or Deported
                      > from
                      > Canada? Do You Intend to Reside Permanently in Canada? Can You Read?
                      > What
                      > Language? By Whom Was Passage Paid? Trade/Occupation; Trade/Occupation
                      > In
                      > Canada; Destination (If destined to relative, friend or employer,
                      > state
                      > which and give name and full address. If not joining any person in
                      > Canada,
                      > give the address in Canada to which you are going); Nearest Relative
                      > (Give
                      > name, relationship and address of your nearest relative in the country
                      > from
                      > which you came. If a wife or children are to follow you later to
                      > Canada,
                      > give names and ages); Mentally Defective? Physically Defective?
                      > Tubercular?
                      > Passport Information; Money in Possession Belonging to Passenger;
                      > Travelling
                      > Inland, How, Action Taken, and Civil Examiner.
                      >
                      > In these records "Ukrainian" is used for "race" or "people" from 1922
                      > to
                      > 1926, but then in 1926 they switched to "Ruthenian" to describe
                      > Ukrainians;
                      > but "Poland" is the country of birth and nationality. During this
                      > period
                      > Canada's immigration department concluded two agreements with Canadian
                      > Pacific Railway (CPR) and Canadian National Railway (CNR) whereby
                      > these
                      > companies recruited, selected and processed central and eastern
                      > European
                      > immigration to Canada between 1925 and 1930. Many records will state
                      > intended occupation as agricultural labourer, and many will give the
                      > name of
                      > the CPR superintendent in Winnipeg as the prospective employer. This
                      > reflects the categories of immigration accepted in those years. The
                      > onset of
                      > the Great Depression slowed this immigration to a trickle in the
                      > thirties.
                      >
                      > The CPR had a lot of experience in the former Eastern Galicia area.
                      > During
                      > the homestead boom that filled the Canadian West, 1890-1914, it is
                      > generally
                      > estimated that over 300,000 "Galicians" came to Manitoba, Saskatchewan
                      > and
                      > Alberta, of which Ukrainians outnumbered Poles at least three to one.
                      > (Accurate statistics of the ethnic background of immigrants during
                      > this time
                      > period is very difficult to obtain. There were also about another
                      > 150,000
                      > from Russia and Prussia). There is not as yet an online research tool
                      > for
                      > this earlier time period for immigration records -- but there is some
                      > useful
                      > information available under the section "Western Land Grants,
                      > 1870-1930,"
                      > which is on the ArchiviaNet page cited above. One can search for
                      > immigrants
                      > who received a homestead patent. There were thousands who tried
                      > homesteading
                      > and then abandoned their attempt, thereby not getting a "patent." For
                      > Saskatchewan alone there are over 400,000 homestead files
                      > (abandonments and
                      > patents) and one can search these through the Saskatchewan Archives or
                      > through the Family History Centre at Salt Lake City.
                      >
                      > Two very useful finding aids for immigration records and homestead
                      > records
                      > are _Destination Canada: A Guide to 20th Century Immigration Records_
                      > and
                      > Back to the Land: A Genealogical Guide to Finding Farms on the
                      > Canadian
                      > Prairies_, both compiled by David Obee. Many of you might recognize
                      > David's
                      > name from Genealogy Unlimited/Interlink Bookshop in Victoria, British
                      > Columbia, http:// www.interlinkbookshop.com.

                      By the way I can provide the contact information for a reliable
                      researcher who can go to the Archives and make copies of the records you
                      need to obtain. This is helpful if you cannot borrow the specific films
                      numbers, or if the library you have in your home town is too small and
                      does not have a microfilm reader. (like mine).

                      For anyone in the Saskatoon area, David Obee will be presenting a one
                      day Genealogy workshop on Researching Your Eastern European Roots on
                      Saturday February 5, 2005. The Saskatoon Genealogy Society is the
                      sponsoring organization...you could try http://www.rootsweb.com/~sksgs
                      for more information.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Laurence Krupnak
                      Hello Bob, Mike, I believe, said that 20/8/43 is on a 1920s-era Canadian landing record. The US INS would not have access to Canadian landing records for
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                        Hello Bob,

                        Mike, I believe, said that "20/8/43" is on a 1920s-era Canadian
                        landing record. The US INS would not have access to Canadian landing
                        records for the numbers 20/8/43 to be written on the manifest by the US
                        INS. If US-bound passengers were on a ship that disembarked passengers
                        at a Canadian port the US bound passengers would have been manifested on
                        a US-compliant manifest record, that record would have been given to the
                        US Consulate in Canada and the sheets would have then been handed over
                        to the US inspection station at the border point where they entered the
                        US (Niagara, Buffalo, Detroit, etc.).

                        ________

                        Lavrentiy




                        Bob Postula wrote:
                        >
                        > Isn't it true that the number being referenced from the passenger lists
                        > and being referred to as a "naturalization number" is an error. See below
                        > for an explanation of that number.
                        >
                        > http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/MANIF/annot3.htm
                        >
                        > ---- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <Lkrupnak@...>
                        > To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:23 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                        > Island & Canada?
                        >
                        > >
                        > > m most wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Morning All,
                        > > >
                        > > > I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
                        > > > Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                        > > > Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
                        > > > but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
                        > > > Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax, Nova Scotia with yet another
                        > > > naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > How do you know they are the same person? The only thing that
                        > > 1-430516-8-21-43 provides to you right now is that on August 21, 1943
                        > > that passenger's arrival in the US was verified by the US INS in
                        > > response to that person's filing a Petition to become a US citizen.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On the Canadian manifest what does the date 20/8/43 refer to?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                        > > > Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > How could a person apply for Canadian citizenship and US citizenship at
                        > > the same time. A person must reside in the US continuously for 5
                        > > years.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
                        > > > US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
                        > > > obtain this second one?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Canada.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
                        > > > as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
                        > > > issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                        > > >
                        > > > Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
                        > > > I could find out more about it?
                        > > >
                        > > > 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 4.II.26 is a date.... 4 February 1926. In 1926, Brzezany was in Poland
                        > > ...it would have been a Polish passport that he possessed.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > If the Canadian
                        > > > manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                        > > > Brzezany
                        > > > receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > He had a Polish passport. Passports are issued by the country where a
                        > > people is a citzizen, not the country traveling to. Visas are issued
                        > > by the country to which one wants to travel to. In 1926 all p-erson
                        > > traveling to the US needed an entry visa. The visa weas issued by the
                        > > US Consulate.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                        > > > Mike
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ______
                        > >
                        > > Lavrentiy
                        > >
                        > > .
                        > > .
                        > > .
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Laurence Krupnak
                        Hello Bob, Yes, 20/8/43 is not a naturalization number (e.g., a certificate of arrival number or correspondence number, etc.). It s simply a date and Mike
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 2, 2004
                          Hello Bob,

                          Yes, "20/8/43" is not a naturalization number (e.g., a certificate of
                          arrival number or correspondence number, etc.). It's simply a date and
                          Mike needs to get the Canadian landing record to see what other numbers
                          are present with that date. In any case, since Mike found that date on
                          a Canadian landing record only one thing is known at this point ...they
                          were not inserted by the US INS.

                          _______

                          Lavrentiy





                          Laurence Krupnak wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Bob,
                          >
                          > Mike, I believe, said that "20/8/43" is on a 1920s-era Canadian
                          > landing record. The US INS would not have access to Canadian landing
                          > records for the numbers 20/8/43 to be written on the manifest by the US
                          > INS. If US-bound passengers were on a ship that disembarked passengers
                          > at a Canadian port the US bound passengers would have been manifested on
                          > a US-compliant manifest record, that record would have been given to the
                          > US Consulate in Canada and the sheets would have then been handed over
                          > to the US inspection station at the border point where they entered the
                          > US (Niagara, Buffalo, Detroit, etc.).
                          >
                          > ________
                          >
                          > Lavrentiy
                          >
                          > Bob Postula wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Isn't it true that the number being referenced from the passenger lists
                          > > and being referred to as a "naturalization number" is an error. See below
                          > > for an explanation of that number.
                          > >
                          > > http://uscis.gov/graphics/aboutus/history/MANIF/annot3.htm
                          > >
                          > > ---- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <Lkrupnak@...>
                          > > To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:23 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                          > > Island & Canada?
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > m most wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Morning All,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time same
                          > > > > Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                          > > > > Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island 1-430516-8-21-43
                          > > > > but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on a
                          > > > > Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax, Nova Scotia with yet another
                          > > > > naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > How do you know they are the same person? The only thing that
                          > > > 1-430516-8-21-43 provides to you right now is that on August 21, 1943
                          > > > that passenger's arrival in the US was verified by the US INS in
                          > > > response to that person's filing a Petition to become a US citizen.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On the Canadian manifest what does the date 20/8/43 refer to?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                          > > > > Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > How could a person apply for Canadian citizenship and US citizenship at
                          > > > the same time. A person must reside in the US continuously for 5
                          > > > years.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the first
                          > > > > US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able to
                          > > > > obtain this second one?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Canada.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he came
                          > > > > as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport was
                          > > > > issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and how
                          > > > > I could find out more about it?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > 4.II.26 is a date.... 4 February 1926. In 1926, Brzezany was in Poland
                          > > > ...it would have been a Polish passport that he possessed.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > > If the Canadian
                          > > > > manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                          > > > > Brzezany
                          > > > > receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > He had a Polish passport. Passports are issued by the country where a
                          > > > people is a citzizen, not the country traveling to. Visas are issued
                          > > > by the country to which one wants to travel to. In 1926 all p-erson
                          > > > traveling to the US needed an entry visa. The visa weas issued by the
                          > > > US Consulate.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                          > > > > Mike
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ______
                          > > >
                          > > > Lavrentiy
                          > > >
                          > > > .
                          > > > .
                          > > > .
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • m most
                          John, If you could provide me with any information regarding me being able to fill out any paperwork for my great grandfather s Canadian anturalization I would
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 4, 2004
                            John,

                            If you could provide me with any information regarding me being able to
                            fill out any paperwork for my great grandfather's Canadian
                            anturalization I would greatly appreciate it.

                            Unfortunately I do not see a heck of a lot of info on his manifest but
                            perhaps, name, date of naturalization request and the CNR Scheme will
                            point me in the right direction.

                            Thanks for your info and reply.

                            Regards,
                            Mike
                            --- JOHN AND GLORIA <jlgl@...> wrote:


                            ---------------------------------
                            Hi
                            Sorry but I was not monitoring for a bit and I missed the start of this

                            thread. Where did the phrase "CNR Scheme to Winnipeg" come from. It
                            implys
                            that Ukrainian immigrants were subsidised in exchange for a work
                            contract?
                            Or am I wrong. I have never heard of this before. But then my research
                            into
                            Ruthenian/Ukrainian immigration to Canada is focused on the first wave
                            group
                            which terminated in late 1913. If this something that showed up in the
                            naturalization process. You can get fairly detailed stuff on the
                            newcomers
                            when they applied for Naturalization from the federal government in
                            Ottawa
                            if you are a relative and can prove it and can prove the guy has been
                            dead
                            for a while. I do not know the details of how this is done but a friend
                            just
                            went through it and has the info. In this case she got an RCMPolice
                            report
                            filed by the officer that went out to the fellows homestead and
                            interviewed
                            him and filled in a standard RCMP form on the applicant includeing what
                            the
                            officer thought of the applicant in general (ie was he intelligent or
                            not).
                            It even gives details of the officers trip to the homestead and the
                            transportation used.
                            Not all immigrants, especially Ruthenians got Naturalized in the early
                            1900s. Only the "man of the house" had to do it.And they only did it
                            when
                            they wanted to get land title to the homestead they were living on.
                            They
                            needed to swear allegence to the Queen in order to get the land title.
                            In later years it was done in order to qualify for Old Age Security and

                            ofter happened when this "head" was getting on in years.
                            Let me know the origin of this phraze please, It is of cource true that
                            the
                            vast majority of Galician Ruthenians that entered Canada in the first
                            wave
                            of 1896 to 1913 worked either full or part time for either the CNR or
                            CPR
                            railways in Canada. There were only 2.. But this is the first
                            indication I
                            have heard of a connection with trans-atlantic transportation if that
                            is
                            what it is all about
                            Regards
                            John Laporte
                            Beausejour,MB
                            Canada

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Barbara Tuz" <tuzb@...>
                            To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:28 PM
                            Subject: RE: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis

                            Island & Canada?


                            >
                            > Hi Mike,
                            >
                            > My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he
                            later
                            > settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
                            > village) were "clearing brush" - cutting down trees and clearing
                            fields
                            > for
                            > the building of train tracks.
                            >
                            > Barbara Tuz
                            >
                            >
                            >>From: m most <mostranskym@...>
                            >>Reply-To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                            >>To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                            >>Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                            Island
                            >>& Canada?
                            >>Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
                            >>
                            >>Morning All,
                            >>
                            >>I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time
                            same
                            >>Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                            >>Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island
                            1-430516-8-21-43
                            >>but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on
                            a
                            >>Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
                            >>naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
                            >>
                            >>Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                            >>
                            >>Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
                            >>
                            >>I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the
                            first
                            >>US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able
                            to
                            >>obtain this second one?
                            >>
                            >>It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he
                            came
                            >>as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport
                            was
                            >>issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                            >>
                            >>Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and
                            how
                            >>I could find out more about it?
                            >>
                            >>46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
                            >>manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                            >>Brzezany
                            >>receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
                            >>
                            >>Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                            >>Mike
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>__________________________________
                            >>Do you Yahoo!?
                            >>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                            >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                            >
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                            >



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                          • JOHN AND GLORIA
                            Direct your query to Angel Birt on this list. SHe is the lady who has recently gone through this excercise not myself John ... From: m most
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 4, 2004
                              Direct your query to Angel Birt on this list. SHe is the lady who has
                              recently gone through this excercise not myself
                              John

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "m most" <mostranskym@...>
                              To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 7:38 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                              Island & Canada?


                              >
                              > John,
                              >
                              > If you could provide me with any information regarding me being able to
                              > fill out any paperwork for my great grandfather's Canadian
                              > anturalization I would greatly appreciate it.
                              >
                              > Unfortunately I do not see a heck of a lot of info on his manifest but
                              > perhaps, name, date of naturalization request and the CNR Scheme will
                              > point me in the right direction.
                              >
                              > Thanks for your info and reply.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Mike
                              > --- JOHN AND GLORIA <jlgl@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Hi
                              > Sorry but I was not monitoring for a bit and I missed the start of this
                              >
                              > thread. Where did the phrase "CNR Scheme to Winnipeg" come from. It
                              > implys
                              > that Ukrainian immigrants were subsidised in exchange for a work
                              > contract?
                              > Or am I wrong. I have never heard of this before. But then my research
                              > into
                              > Ruthenian/Ukrainian immigration to Canada is focused on the first wave
                              > group
                              > which terminated in late 1913. If this something that showed up in the
                              > naturalization process. You can get fairly detailed stuff on the
                              > newcomers
                              > when they applied for Naturalization from the federal government in
                              > Ottawa
                              > if you are a relative and can prove it and can prove the guy has been
                              > dead
                              > for a while. I do not know the details of how this is done but a friend
                              > just
                              > went through it and has the info. In this case she got an RCMPolice
                              > report
                              > filed by the officer that went out to the fellows homestead and
                              > interviewed
                              > him and filled in a standard RCMP form on the applicant includeing what
                              > the
                              > officer thought of the applicant in general (ie was he intelligent or
                              > not).
                              > It even gives details of the officers trip to the homestead and the
                              > transportation used.
                              > Not all immigrants, especially Ruthenians got Naturalized in the early
                              > 1900s. Only the "man of the house" had to do it.And they only did it
                              > when
                              > they wanted to get land title to the homestead they were living on.
                              > They
                              > needed to swear allegence to the Queen in order to get the land title.
                              > In later years it was done in order to qualify for Old Age Security and
                              >
                              > ofter happened when this "head" was getting on in years.
                              > Let me know the origin of this phraze please, It is of cource true that
                              > the
                              > vast majority of Galician Ruthenians that entered Canada in the first
                              > wave
                              > of 1896 to 1913 worked either full or part time for either the CNR or
                              > CPR
                              > railways in Canada. There were only 2.. But this is the first
                              > indication I
                              > have heard of a connection with trans-atlantic transportation if that
                              > is
                              > what it is all about
                              > Regards
                              > John Laporte
                              > Beausejour,MB
                              > Canada
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Barbara Tuz" <tuzb@...>
                              > To: <Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:28 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                              >
                              > Island & Canada?
                              >
                              >
                              >>
                              >> Hi Mike,
                              >>
                              >> My grandfather came over on the C.N.R. Scheme to Winnipeg to (but he
                              > later
                              >> settled in Toronto). My grandfather (and several other guys from his
                              >> village) were "clearing brush" - cutting down trees and clearing
                              > fields
                              >> for
                              >> the building of train tracks.
                              >>
                              >> Barbara Tuz
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>>From: m most <mostranskym@...>
                              >>>Reply-To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                              >>>Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Naturalization Records from Ellis
                              > Island
                              >>>& Canada?
                              >>>Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
                              >>>
                              >>>Morning All,
                              >>>
                              >>>I have a question... if you recall when we last met (same Bat time
                              > same
                              >>>Bat channel) I was reviewing my Great Grandfather Stephanus
                              >>>Mastranski's naturalization number - From Ellis Island
                              > 1-430516-8-21-43
                              >>>but have him also later on in 1926 (it has to be the same person) on
                              > a
                              >>>Canadian manifest arriving in Halifax , Nova Scotia with yet another
                              >>>naturalization date exists of 20/8/43.
                              >>>
                              >>>Is this second naturalization for Canadian citizenship?
                              >>>
                              >>>Would it have been possible for a person to get both?
                              >>>
                              >>>I am heading over to NARA this a.m. and hopefully will obtain the
                              > first
                              >>>US naturalization info - but does anyone know where I would be able
                              > to
                              >>>obtain this second one?
                              >>>
                              >>>It also states on this Canadian manifest (thanks to Andy) that he
                              > came
                              >>>as a farmer on the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba, his passport
                              > was
                              >>>issued at 46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 - few questions about that too.
                              >>>
                              >>>Does anyone know what the C.N.R. Scheme, Winnipeg, Manitoba is and
                              > how
                              >>>I could find out more about it?
                              >>>
                              >>>46.Brzezany on 4.II.26 ---- is this an address? If the Canadian
                              >>>manifest had this information is it meaning that he was back in
                              >>>Brzezany
                              >>>receiving his passport? What kind of passport - Canadian?
                              >>>
                              >>>Fingers Crossed & Happy Friday
                              >>>Mike
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>__________________________________
                              >>>Do you Yahoo!?
                              >>>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                              >>>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                              >>
                              >> _________________________________________________________________
                              >> MSN® Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of
                              > scheduling
                              >> get-togethers.
                              >>
                              > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
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