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Re: Pilatkowce

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  • krupniak
    ... There was no GC church in Ternavka (Tarnawka). Ternavka GC community was in the Pylatkivtsi (Pil~atkowce) GC parish. ______ Lavrentiy
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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      iwhbadhobbit wrote:


      > I have had the Slownik entry for Pilatkowce translated and it says
      > that many of the Greek Catholics in Pilatkowce actually attended
      > church in the neighboring town of Tarnawaka.



      There was no GC church in Ternavka (Tarnawka). Ternavka GC
      community was in the Pylatkivtsi (Pil~atkowce) GC parish.


      ______

      Lavrentiy
    • krupniak
      ... located ... Roman has the correct translation of the Pil~atkowce entry. The entries for Tarnawka and Zwiahel would clarify what churches were located in
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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        Roman wrote:


        >
        > The entry also states:
        >
        > The number of RC in Piłatkowce AND Grabowiec was 366, the parish
        located
        > in Jezierzany; the number of GC was 733, the filial (villages of)
        > Tarnawka and Zwiahel had 686,



        Roman has the correct translation of the Pil~atkowce entry.

        The entries for Tarnawka and Zwiahel would clarify what churches
        were located in those two villages.






        ______

        Lavrentiy
      • krupniak
        ... ******* Austrian official place name typically used the Polish place name splling. ________ Lavrentiy /
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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          iwhbadhobbit wrote:
          >
          > Hi Roman:
          >
          > Well, spelling has never been my strong suit but there is indeed an
          > entry in Slownik named Pilatkowce which I believe is the Austrian
          > spelling of the name. In any event, the one you looked up is clearly
          > the same one I am referring to.


          *******

          Austrian official place name typically used the Polish place name
          splling.


          ________

          Lavrentiy

          /
        • krupniak
          Irv, Go with Roman. _______ Lavrentiy ... were ... me ... place ... spelling ... find no ... (villages ... parish ... says ... LDS ... Here it ... also ...
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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            Irv,


            Go with Roman.


            _______

            Lavrentiy



            iwhbadhobbit wrote:
            >
            > Hi Roman:
            >
            > Well, spelling has never been my strong suit but there is indeed an
            > entry in Slownik named Pilatkowce which I believe is the Austrian
            > spelling of the name. In any event, the one you looked up is clearly
            > the same one I am referring to.
            >
            > I had the entry translated by someone who was experienced at
            > translating Slownik entries so I assumed that the sentence "There
            were
            > 733 Greek Catholics, of whom 686 belonged to affiliated churches in
            > Tarnawka and Zwiahel" was correct. However you appear to be telling
            me
            > that the words "of whom" should really be "and" resulting in 1419
            > Greek Catholics in all 3 villages with 37 GC's living in other
            > villages? That actually makes more sense.
            >
            > Thanks for this Roman, much appreciated.
            >
            > Irv
            >
            > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Roman <romanka@>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi "no signature",
            > >
            > > You want to be a bit more careful with the spelling of Polish
            place
            > > names. There are many similarly spelled locations and the wrong
            spelling
            > > can easily lead to some confusion. In looking at the Słownik I
            find no
            > > entry for Pilatkowce. There is an entry for Piłatkowce
            > (Pil~atkowce) and
            > > it mentions the following villages:
            > >
            > > Tarnawka (not Tarnawaka);
            > > Skała or Skal~a (not Skala);
            > > Jezierzany (not Ozerjany; Ozeryany is Ukranian, not Polish)
            > >
            > > The entry also states:
            > >
            > > The number of RC in Piłatkowce AND Grabowiec was 366, the parish
            > located in Jezierzany; the number of GC was 733, the filial
            (villages
            > of) Tarnawka and Zwiahel had 686, all together there were 1456 GCs,
            > with the
            > > parish in the village, belonging to the Skałat deanery.
            > >
            > > So there were a small number of GCs that belonged to the local
            parish
            > > but did not reside in the three named villages.
            > >
            > > Roman
            > >
            > > iwhbadhobbit wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > > > I have had the Slownik entry for Pilatkowce translated and it
            says
            > > > that many of the Greek Catholics in Pilatkowce actually attended
            > > > church in the neighboring town of Tarnawaka. I have ordered the
            LDS
            > > > film on Tarnawaka in the hope that my relatives show up there.
            Here it
            > > > the pertinent paragraph from Slownik if you are interested. It
            also
            > > > says that the RC's in Pilatkowce attended church in Ozerjany
            which
            > > > implys that there was no RC church in Pilatkowce. I'm also
            puzzled at
            > > > the GC numbers that seems to say that of the 733 GC's in that
            village
            > > > that only 57 attended church in Pilatkowce. Very strange!
            > > >
            > > > Thanks again!
            > > >
            > > > Slownik: "Including the village of Grabowiec, there were 360
            Roman
            > > > Catholics, whose parish was in Jezierzany. There were 733 Greek
            > > > Catholics, of whom 686 belonged to affiliated churches in
            Tarnawaka
            > > > and Zwiahel. The total Greek Catholic population in the district
            > > > numbered 1,456. The main Greek Cathollic church was located in
            > > > Pilatkowce, and was part of the deanery of Skala"
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • krupniak
            ... ******* We need a GC shematism to clear this up. _______ Lavrentiy
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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              Dee Sager wrote:


              > If this helps, good. If not, that's what the delete button is for.
              >
              > Dee


              *******

              We need a GC shematism to clear this up.


              _______

              Lavrentiy
            • krupniak
              BTW, one major place that Austrians kept the Rusyn | Ukrainian name was Lisko. ______ Lavrentiy ... Galicia. ... named ... major ... and ... the ... 99.999% of
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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                BTW, one major place that Austrians kept the Rusyn | Ukrainian name
                was Lisko.

                ______

                Lavrentiy



                singmore wrote:
                >
                > >Well, spelling has never been my strong suit but there is indeed an
                > >entry in Slownik named Pilatkowce which I believe is the Austrian
                > >spelling of the name.
                >
                >
                >
                > I?d like to clear a bit of a confusion as written in this sentence .
                >
                >
                >
                > There has never been such a thing as an ?Austrian spelling? in
                Galicia.
                > After the 1772, the year when Austria occupied the Polish lands and
                named
                > them Galicia, the place names remained Polish. Yes, some of the
                major
                > cities: Lwó· ¦amp; Krakó· ·ere also referred to by German names: Lemberg
                and
                > Krakau (respectively) but only on the official Austrian maps or in
                the
                > official Austrian government documents. The rest of the country ?
                99.999% of
                > places was always referred to by their Polish names. That had
                remained
                > unchanged from early 1300 to 1945.
                >
                >
                >
                > Ella
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • iwhbadhobbit
                I have posted the original Slownik entry for Pilatkowce and the translation I received in the photos section under Pilatkowce. Roman, I was unaware of the
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 5, 2007
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                  I have posted the original Slownik entry for Pilatkowce and the
                  translation I received in the photos section under Pilatkowce.

                  Roman, I was unaware of the difference in the two letters and it was
                  not visible to me until I changed to the Unicode view as you
                  suggested. The quality of my image of the Slownik entry is not good
                  but it does appear to have a slash through the letter L.

                  Thanks for pointing this out Roman.

                  Irv




                  --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, Roman <romanka@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Irv,
                  >
                  > [Use Unicode character coding to read this note.]
                  >
                  > Please provide a reference (Tom and Page number) for the entry you
                  > found. I still cannot find an entry for Pilatkowce in the Słownik that
                  > is available on-line. There is, however, an entry for Piłatkowce.
                  >
                  > Keep in mind that the two letters, L and Ł, in the Polish alphabet are
                  > quite different though they appear almost identical.
                  >
                  > Roman
                  >
                  >
                • krupniak
                  ... ********* Irv, In the context of *parish organization*, filia, the word that appears in the Slownik, means branch which means that there is a church
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 6, 2007
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                    iwhbadhobbit wrote:

                    > I have posted the original Slownik entry for Pilatkowce and the
                    > translation I received in the photos section under Pilatkowce.
                    >
                    > Roman, I was unaware of the difference in the two letters and it was
                    > not visible to me until I changed to the Unicode view as you
                    > suggested. The quality of my image of the Slownik entry is not good
                    > but it does appear to have a slash through the letter L.
                    >
                    > Thanks for pointing this out Roman.
                    >
                    > Irv


                    *********

                    Irv,

                    In the context of *parish organization*, filia, the word that
                    appears in the Slownik, means branch which means that there is a
                    church building in a place, in this case in the communities of
                    Tarnawka and Zwiahel, but there is no permanent priest assigned to
                    the branch church. The filia church was serviced by a priest located
                    in another community, in this case the priest in Pylatkivtsi.

                    Pylatkivtsi was regarded as the seat of three churches -
                    Pylatkivtsi, Tarnavka, and Zviahel' [The Austro-Hungarian maps do
                    confirm that there were church buildings in Tarnawka and Zwiahel.]
                    Or, in other words the Pylatkivtsi GC parish consisted of
                    Pylatkivtsi, Tarnavka, and Zviahel' and other possible smaller
                    nearby "places".

                    The Slownik provides that:


                    o 733 Greek Catholics resided in Pylatkivtsi.

                    o 686 Greek Catholics resided in Tarnavka and Zviahel'.

                    o 37 [1456-733-686] Greek Catholics resided in other nearby "places".

                    ______

                    Lavrentiy
                  • krupniak
                    ... ******** Reaching a final, accurate, and acceptable translation can be a tortuous endeavor. ______ Lavrentiy
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 6, 2007
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                      iwhbadhobbit wrote:
                      >
                      > I have posted the original Slownik entry for Pilatkowce and the
                      > translation I received in the photos section under Pilatkowce.


                      ********

                      Reaching a final, accurate, and acceptable translation can be a
                      tortuous endeavor.

                      ______

                      Lavrentiy
                    • krupniak
                      translation errors: http://tinyurl.com/2zbwnb http://www.ojohaven.com/fun/translation.funnies.html
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 6, 2007
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                        translation errors:


                        http://tinyurl.com/2zbwnb


                        http://www.ojohaven.com/fun/translation.funnies.html


                        http://www.wlstranslations.com/resources/Lost_In_Translation.php






                        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                        <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > iwhbadhobbit wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I have posted the original Slownik entry for Pilatkowce and the
                        > > translation I received in the photos section under Pilatkowce.
                        >
                        >
                        > ********
                        >
                        > Reaching a final, accurate, and acceptable translation can be
                        a
                        > tortuous endeavor.
                        >
                        > ______
                        >
                        > Lavrentiy
                        >
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