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Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian distribution in Europe

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  • Dennis Benarz
    The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and offensive to Muslims
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
      The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party
      probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
      offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
      religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to those
      who say it is.

      That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.

      Dennis

      --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
      <einamaka@...> wrote:
      >
      > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The
      > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was
      > once located.
      >
      >
      > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
      > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Where's the map?
      > >
      > > ______
      > >
      > > Lavrentiy
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
      > > <einamaka@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
      > > distribution
      > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
      > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was
      > in
      > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
      > recent
      > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
      > > >
      > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
      > > >
      > > > Cheers!
      > > > Erika
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Dennis Benarz
      The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology. The Patriarchate of Moscow didn t exist in 1054. In fact, it didn t come into being until about 300 years
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
        The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology. The Patriarchate
        of Moscow didn't exist in 1054. In fact, it didn't come into being
        until about 300 years later. Thus, it was not a party to the schism
        and is merely a descendant entity of it.

        Besides, the Patriarchate of Moscow was abolished by Czar Peter the
        Great in 1721 and hasn't truly existed since that time (until perhaps
        recently). Just a series of puppets, "Holy Synods", and shams staffed
        and controlled by whoever was in control of the Russian state. Pope
        John-Paul II wanted to travel to Moscow to secure greater religious
        freedom for Catholics of all rites and the restoration of
        appropriated church properties in the former Soviet Union. Of course
        the time was not right; it wasn't right for Gorbachev or Yeltsin and
        it still isn't right for Putin. Too little time has passed since the
        passage of laws liberalizing religious freedoms in Russia in 1990 to
        determine whether the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox
        Church is truly independent and free of state control.

        If the objective is resolving theological differences, then the
        Pope's meeting with the Patriarch of Constantinople is appropriate
        and proper. If the objective is politics, then a meeting between the
        Pope and Patriarch of Moscow might be more productive.

        In reality, there is no single center of "Orthodox power". The issue
        of a single, centralized, religious authority was part of reason for
        Schism of 1054 in the first place.

        Dennis

        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
        <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > The Pope is in reality meeting with the wrong Orthodox Patriarch.
        > Center of Orthodox power rests within the Patriarchate of Moscow.
        > Pope John Paul II wanted departely to travel to Moscow but
        Patriarch
        > of Moscow said time is not right (i.e. major changes by Vatican are
        > needed).
        >
        >
        > ______
        >
        > Lavrentiy
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
        > <einamaka@> wrote:
        > >
        > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
        > distribution
        > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
        > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was in
        > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his recent
        > > remarks about Islam had caused.
        > >
        > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
        > >
        > > Cheers!
        > > Erika
        > >
        >
      • Mark Lenartowick
        Now Dennis, You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and inflammatory.
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
          Now Dennis,


          You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and inflammatory. It would be like saying Catholicism teaches love and respect yet sodomize their youth. Both have a basis in truth, but both are grossly overstated extremes and nothing more than a provocative and dangerous use of the truth.

          You should consider an apology.

          With respect,
          Mark



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Dennis Benarz
          To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:11 AM
          Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian distribution in Europe


          The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party
          probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
          offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
          religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to those
          who say it is.

          That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.

          Dennis

          --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
          <einamaka@...> wrote:
          >
          > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The
          > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was
          > once located.
          >
          >
          > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
          > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Where's the map?
          > >
          > > ______
          > >
          > > Lavrentiy
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
          > > <einamaka@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
          > > distribution
          > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
          > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was
          > in
          > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
          > recent
          > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
          > > >
          > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
          > > >
          > > > Cheers!
          > > > Erika
          > > >
          > >
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • edward amrick
          The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm Ed Amrick ...
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
            The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm

            Ed Amrick


            --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:

            > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
            > Islamist-nationalist party
            > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
            > Islam and
            > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
            > not violent
            > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
            > sentences to those
            > who say it is.
            >
            > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
            > subject.
            >
            > Dennis
            >
            > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
            > "einamaka"
            > <einamaka@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
            > that article. The
            > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
            > where the map was
            > > once located.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
            > "krupniak"
            > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Where's the map?
            > > >
            > > > ______
            > > >
            > > > Lavrentiy
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
            > "einamaka"
            > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
            > showing the
            > > > distribution
            > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
            > the middle part of
            > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
            > this article was
            > > in
            > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
            > controversy his
            > > recent
            > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
            > > > >
            > > > > Cheers!
            > > > > Erika
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >




            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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          • Dennis Benarz
            Hi Mark I briefly considered your idea but quickly rejected it. The Turkish government closed the last Orthodox seminary in Turkey and now requires that all
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
              Hi Mark

              I briefly considered your idea but quickly rejected it.

              The Turkish government closed the last Orthodox seminary in Turkey
              and now requires that all future Patriarchs of Constantinople be
              native born Turks. Since Constantinople (now Istanbul) is located in
              Turkey, these Turkish actions will quite purposely cause the end of
              the Patriarchy of Constaninople and the extinction of Orthodox
              Christianity in Turkey. In effect, it is a death sentence issued by
              the Turkish government to the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey.

              I would consider such acts by any nation to be provocative and
              extreme. But these acts were committed by a nation which then
              threatened to withdraw its invition to a major Christian religious
              leader because he dared to quote some unflattering words of a
              Byzantine emperor regarding Islam to an academic audience. And that I
              call intolerant.

              Tolerance is a two way street. When their intolerance ceases, I will
              return to being a tolerant person again on this issue. But right now
              I am no longer willing to turn the other cheek again, and again, and
              again. Sometimes you have to dig in your heals and say "Enough!"

              By the way, my previous remark was humor and this one isn't. This I
              thought you should know.

              Give the world a break and lighten up.

              Dennis

              --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Lenartowick"
              <mlenartowick@...> wrote:
              >
              > Now Dennis,
              >
              >
              > You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but
              even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and
              inflammatory. It would be like saying Catholicism teaches love and
              respect yet sodomize their youth. Both have a basis in truth, but
              both are grossly overstated extremes and nothing more than a
              provocative and dangerous use of the truth.
              >
              > You should consider an apology.
              >
              > With respect,
              > Mark
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Dennis Benarz
              > To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:11 AM
              > Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian
              distribution in Europe
              >
              >
              > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist
              party
              > probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
              > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
              > religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to
              those
              > who say it is.
              >
              > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.
              >
              > Dennis
              >
              > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
              > <einamaka@> wrote:
              > >
              > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article.
              The
              > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map
              was
              > > once located.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
              > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Where's the map?
              > > >
              > > > ______
              > > >
              > > > Lavrentiy
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
              > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
              > > > distribution
              > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle
              part of
              > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article
              was
              > > in
              > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
              > > recent
              > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
              > > > >
              > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
              > > > >
              > > > > Cheers!
              > > > > Erika
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • einamaka
              that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented. It started at Italy on the
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
                that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented. It
                started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the east...

                wish i had copied the jpg =\




                --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                <era4082000@...> wrote:
                >
                > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                >
                > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                >
                > Ed Amrick
                >
                >
                > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:
                >
                > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                > > Islamist-nationalist party
                > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                > > Islam and
                > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                > > not violent
                > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                > > sentences to those
                > > who say it is.
                > >
                > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                > > subject.
                > >
                > > Dennis
                > >
                > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "einamaka"
                > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                > > that article. The
                > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                > > where the map was
                > > > once located.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "krupniak"
                > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Where's the map?
                > > > >
                > > > > ______
                > > > >
                > > > > Lavrentiy
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                > > "einamaka"
                > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                > > showing the
                > > > > distribution
                > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                > > the middle part of
                > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                > > this article was
                > > > in
                > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                > > controversy his
                > > > recent
                > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Cheers!
                > > > > > Erika
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________________
                _______________
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                >
              • einamaka
                ... _____________________________________________________________________
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
                  --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                  <era4082000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                  >
                  > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                  >
                  > Ed Amrick
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                  > > Islamist-nationalist party
                  > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                  > > Islam and
                  > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                  > > not violent
                  > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                  > > sentences to those
                  > > who say it is.
                  > >
                  > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                  > > subject.
                  > >
                  > > Dennis
                  > >
                  > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "einamaka"
                  > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                  > > that article. The
                  > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                  > > where the map was
                  > > > once located.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "krupniak"
                  > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Where's the map?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ______
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Lavrentiy
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "einamaka"
                  > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                  > > showing the
                  > > > > distribution
                  > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                  > > the middle part of
                  > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                  > > this article was
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                  > > controversy his
                  > > > recent
                  > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Cheers!
                  > > > > > Erika
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  _____________________________________________________________________
                  _______________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                  > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                • krupniak
                  Hello Dennis! ... You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox churches are organized. ;-) In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                    Hello Dennis!

                    You're only correct statement was:

                    > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.


                    You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox churches
                    are organized. ;-)

                    In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of Constantinople is
                    like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                    British Prime Minister.

                    _______

                    Lavrentiy
                  • krupniak
                    go here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm then click on on text link See a map of where Orthodox and Catholic Europe meets The maps has the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                      go here:


                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm


                      then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and Catholic
                      Europe meets"


                      The maps has the following URL:


                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map



                      ______

                      Lavrentiy







                      --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                      <einamaka@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                      > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented.
                      It
                      > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the east...
                      >
                      > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                      > <era4082000@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                      > >
                      > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                      > >
                      > > Ed Amrick
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                      > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                      > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                      > > > Islam and
                      > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                      > > > not violent
                      > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                      > > > sentences to those
                      > > > who say it is.
                      > > >
                      > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                      > > > subject.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dennis
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > "einamaka"
                      > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                      > > > that article. The
                      > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                      > > > where the map was
                      > > > > once located.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > "krupniak"
                      > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Where's the map?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ______
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Lavrentiy
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > "einamaka"
                      > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                      > > > showing the
                      > > > > > distribution
                      > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                      > > > the middle part of
                      > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                      > > > this article was
                      > > > > in
                      > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                      > > > controversy his
                      > > > > recent
                      > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Cheers!
                      > > > > > > Erika
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      _____________________________________________________________________
                      > _______________
                      > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                      > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                      > >
                      >
                    • krupniak
                      Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem presidential primaries. ...
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                        Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary
                        Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem
                        presidential primaries.





                        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                        <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Dennis!
                        >
                        > You're only correct statement was:
                        >
                        > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                        >
                        >
                        > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                        churches
                        > are organized. ;-)
                        >
                        > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                        Constantinople is
                        > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                        > British Prime Minister.
                        >
                        > _______
                        >
                        > Lavrentiy
                        >
                      • krupniak
                        ... i.e. they are the elephants in the respective rooms. ... like
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                          "krupniak" wrote:
                          >
                          > Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary
                          > Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem
                          > presidential primaries.



                          i.e. they are the elephants in the respective rooms.



                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                          > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Dennis!
                          > >
                          > > You're only correct statement was:
                          > >
                          > > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                          > churches
                          > > are organized. ;-)
                          > >
                          > > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                          > Constantinople is
                          > > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is
                          like
                          > > British Prime Minister.
                          > >
                          > > _______
                          > >
                          > > Lavrentiy
                          > >
                          >
                        • Kim Krett-cable
                          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map Try this link. Kim
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                          • krupniak
                            ... Your ;-) ... churches ... Constantinople is
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                              "krupniak" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Dennis!
                              >
                              > You're



                              Your ;-)





                              only correct statement was:
                              >
                              > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                              >
                              >
                              > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                              churches
                              > are organized. ;-)
                              >
                              > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                              Constantinople is
                              > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                              > British Prime Minister.
                              >
                              > _______
                              >
                              > Lavrentiy
                              >
                            • krupniak
                              Note that the area of Western Ukraine which is colored blue ( Majority Catholic (sic) )is the area that was Austrian Galicia, where Orthodoxy was forbidden
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                Note that the area of Western Ukraine which is colored blue
                                ("Majority "Catholic' (sic)")is the area that was Austrian Galicia,
                                where Orthodoxy was forbidden to exist by the Austrians.

                                ______

                                Lavrentiy



                                --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > go here:
                                >
                                >
                                > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm
                                >
                                >
                                > then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and
                                Catholic
                                > Europe meets"
                                >
                                >
                                > The maps has the following URL:
                                >
                                >
                                > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ______
                                >
                                > Lavrentiy
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                                > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                                > > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented.
                                > It
                                > > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the
                                east...
                                > >
                                > > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                                > > <era4082000@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                                > > >
                                > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                                > > >
                                > > > Ed Amrick
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                                > > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                                > > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                                > > > > Islam and
                                > > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                                > > > > not violent
                                > > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                                > > > > sentences to those
                                > > > > who say it is.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                                > > > > subject.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Dennis
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > > > "einamaka"
                                > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                                > > > > that article. The
                                > > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                                > > > > where the map was
                                > > > > > once located.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > > > "krupniak"
                                > > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Where's the map?
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > ______
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                > > > > "einamaka"
                                > > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                                > > > > showing the
                                > > > > > > distribution
                                > > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                                > > > > the middle part of
                                > > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                                > > > > this article was
                                > > > > > in
                                > > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                                > > > > controversy his
                                > > > > > recent
                                > > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Cheers!
                                > > > > > > > Erika
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                _____________________________________________________________________
                                > > _______________
                                > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                > > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • krupniak
                                Moscow .. the Third Rome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/moscowtr.htm
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                  Moscow .. the Third Rome:

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome

                                  http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/moscowtr.htm

                                  http://www.uoregon.edu/~sshoemak/325/texts/moscow_the_third_rome.htm

                                  http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm


                                  --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                  <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > "krupniak" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hello Dennis!
                                  > >
                                  > > You're
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Your ;-)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > only correct statement was:
                                  > >
                                  > > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                                  > churches
                                  > > are organized. ;-)
                                  > >
                                  > > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                                  > Constantinople is
                                  > > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is
                                  like
                                  > > British Prime Minister.
                                  > >
                                  > > _______
                                  > >
                                  > > Lavrentiy
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • krupniak
                                  ... It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church. _______ Lavrentiy
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                    --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"


                                    > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm


                                    It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.

                                    _______

                                    Lavrentiy
                                  • krupniak
                                    Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king s horses and the king s men Couldn t put Humpty together again.
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                      Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
                                      Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
                                      All the king's horses and the king's men
                                      Couldn't put Humpty together again.


                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty






                                      --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                      <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.
                                      >
                                      > _______
                                      >
                                      > Lavrentiy
                                      >
                                    • einamaka
                                      yes that is the map! =) ... Catholic ... the ... represented. ... east...
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                        yes that is the map! =)

                                        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                        <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > go here:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and
                                        Catholic
                                        > Europe meets"
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The maps has the following URL:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ______
                                        >
                                        > Lavrentiy
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                                        > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in
                                        the
                                        > > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being
                                        represented.
                                        > It
                                        > > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the
                                        east...
                                        > >
                                        > > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                                        > > <era4082000@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Ed Amrick
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                                        > > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                                        > > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                                        > > > > Islam and
                                        > > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                                        > > > > not violent
                                        > > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                                        > > > > sentences to those
                                        > > > > who say it is.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                                        > > > > subject.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Dennis
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > > > > "einamaka"
                                        > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                                        > > > > that article. The
                                        > > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                                        > > > > where the map was
                                        > > > > > once located.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > > > > "krupniak"
                                        > > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Where's the map?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > ______
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > > > > "einamaka"
                                        > > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                                        > > > > showing the
                                        > > > > > > distribution
                                        > > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                                        > > > > the middle part of
                                        > > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                                        > > > > this article was
                                        > > > > > in
                                        > > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                                        > > > > controversy his
                                        > > > > > recent
                                        > > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Cheers!
                                        > > > > > > > Erika
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        _____________________________________________________________________
                                        > > _______________
                                        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                        > > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • Dennis Benarz
                                        Hi Larry Like it or not, Bartholomew I among his many titles is still called the Ecumenical Patriarch , first among equals , Patriarch of the Orthodox
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                          Hi Larry

                                          Like it or not, Bartholomew I among his many titles is still
                                          called "the Ecumenical Patriarch", "first among equals", "Patriarch
                                          of the Orthodox Church of Constantinople", and "the spiritual leader
                                          of Eastern Orthodoxy".

                                          Obviously, you'd like most of those terms to be transferred to the
                                          Patriarchate of Moscow but wishing does not make it so. And perhaps
                                          that is for the best because real independence and freedom from
                                          control or influence by the Russian government has not yet been
                                          clearly established for the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia. Don't
                                          be so quick to cast your lot with Moscow merely because of its long
                                          association with eastern Slavic culture.

                                          You bristled at the mention of the Catholic Church and now you
                                          bristle at mention of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Try not to
                                          bristle quite so much regarding such trivial religious issues, Larry,
                                          you'll live longer. They are all parts of Christendom.

                                          Just as Hillary Clinton does not speak for the Democratic Party, the
                                          Patriarch of Moscow does not speak for Eastern Orthodoxy.

                                          Paraphrasing Hamlet: "Alas, poor Humpty. I knew him well."

                                          Dennis

                                          --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                          <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
                                          > Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
                                          > All the king's horses and the king's men
                                          > Couldn't put Humpty together again.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                          > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.
                                          > >
                                          > > _______
                                          > >
                                          > > Lavrentiy
                                          > >
                                          >
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