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Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian distribution in Europe

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  • einamaka
    weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was once located. ... in ...
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 30, 2006
      weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The
      hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was
      once located.


      --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
      <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Where's the map?
      >
      > ______
      >
      > Lavrentiy
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
      > <einamaka@> wrote:
      > >
      > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
      > distribution
      > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
      > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was
      in
      > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
      recent
      > > remarks about Islam had caused.
      > >
      > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
      > >
      > > Cheers!
      > > Erika
      > >
      >
    • Dennis Benarz
      The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and offensive to Muslims
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
        The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party
        probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
        offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
        religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to those
        who say it is.

        That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.

        Dennis

        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
        <einamaka@...> wrote:
        >
        > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The
        > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was
        > once located.
        >
        >
        > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
        > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Where's the map?
        > >
        > > ______
        > >
        > > Lavrentiy
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
        > > <einamaka@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
        > > distribution
        > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
        > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was
        > in
        > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
        > recent
        > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
        > > >
        > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
        > > >
        > > > Cheers!
        > > > Erika
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Dennis Benarz
        The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology. The Patriarchate of Moscow didn t exist in 1054. In fact, it didn t come into being until about 300 years
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
          The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology. The Patriarchate
          of Moscow didn't exist in 1054. In fact, it didn't come into being
          until about 300 years later. Thus, it was not a party to the schism
          and is merely a descendant entity of it.

          Besides, the Patriarchate of Moscow was abolished by Czar Peter the
          Great in 1721 and hasn't truly existed since that time (until perhaps
          recently). Just a series of puppets, "Holy Synods", and shams staffed
          and controlled by whoever was in control of the Russian state. Pope
          John-Paul II wanted to travel to Moscow to secure greater religious
          freedom for Catholics of all rites and the restoration of
          appropriated church properties in the former Soviet Union. Of course
          the time was not right; it wasn't right for Gorbachev or Yeltsin and
          it still isn't right for Putin. Too little time has passed since the
          passage of laws liberalizing religious freedoms in Russia in 1990 to
          determine whether the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox
          Church is truly independent and free of state control.

          If the objective is resolving theological differences, then the
          Pope's meeting with the Patriarch of Constantinople is appropriate
          and proper. If the objective is politics, then a meeting between the
          Pope and Patriarch of Moscow might be more productive.

          In reality, there is no single center of "Orthodox power". The issue
          of a single, centralized, religious authority was part of reason for
          Schism of 1054 in the first place.

          Dennis

          --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
          <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > The Pope is in reality meeting with the wrong Orthodox Patriarch.
          > Center of Orthodox power rests within the Patriarchate of Moscow.
          > Pope John Paul II wanted departely to travel to Moscow but
          Patriarch
          > of Moscow said time is not right (i.e. major changes by Vatican are
          > needed).
          >
          >
          > ______
          >
          > Lavrentiy
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
          > <einamaka@> wrote:
          > >
          > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
          > distribution
          > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
          > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was in
          > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his recent
          > > remarks about Islam had caused.
          > >
          > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
          > >
          > > Cheers!
          > > Erika
          > >
          >
        • Mark Lenartowick
          Now Dennis, You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and inflammatory.
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
            Now Dennis,


            You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and inflammatory. It would be like saying Catholicism teaches love and respect yet sodomize their youth. Both have a basis in truth, but both are grossly overstated extremes and nothing more than a provocative and dangerous use of the truth.

            You should consider an apology.

            With respect,
            Mark



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Dennis Benarz
            To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:11 AM
            Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian distribution in Europe


            The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist party
            probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
            offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
            religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to those
            who say it is.

            That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.

            Dennis

            --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
            <einamaka@...> wrote:
            >
            > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article. The
            > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map was
            > once located.
            >
            >
            > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
            > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Where's the map?
            > >
            > > ______
            > >
            > > Lavrentiy
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
            > > <einamaka@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
            > > distribution
            > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle part of
            > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article was
            > in
            > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
            > recent
            > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
            > > >
            > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
            > > >
            > > > Cheers!
            > > > Erika
            > > >
            > >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • edward amrick
            The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm Ed Amrick ...
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
              The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at

              http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm

              Ed Amrick


              --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:

              > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
              > Islamist-nationalist party
              > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
              > Islam and
              > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
              > not violent
              > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
              > sentences to those
              > who say it is.
              >
              > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
              > subject.
              >
              > Dennis
              >
              > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
              > "einamaka"
              > <einamaka@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
              > that article. The
              > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
              > where the map was
              > > once located.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
              > "krupniak"
              > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Where's the map?
              > > >
              > > > ______
              > > >
              > > > Lavrentiy
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
              > "einamaka"
              > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
              > showing the
              > > > distribution
              > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
              > the middle part of
              > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
              > this article was
              > > in
              > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
              > controversy his
              > > recent
              > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
              > > > >
              > > > > Cheers!
              > > > > Erika
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >




              ____________________________________________________________________________________
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              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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            • Dennis Benarz
              Hi Mark I briefly considered your idea but quickly rejected it. The Turkish government closed the last Orthodox seminary in Turkey and now requires that all
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
                Hi Mark

                I briefly considered your idea but quickly rejected it.

                The Turkish government closed the last Orthodox seminary in Turkey
                and now requires that all future Patriarchs of Constantinople be
                native born Turks. Since Constantinople (now Istanbul) is located in
                Turkey, these Turkish actions will quite purposely cause the end of
                the Patriarchy of Constaninople and the extinction of Orthodox
                Christianity in Turkey. In effect, it is a death sentence issued by
                the Turkish government to the Greek Orthodox Church in Turkey.

                I would consider such acts by any nation to be provocative and
                extreme. But these acts were committed by a nation which then
                threatened to withdraw its invition to a major Christian religious
                leader because he dared to quote some unflattering words of a
                Byzantine emperor regarding Islam to an academic audience. And that I
                call intolerant.

                Tolerance is a two way street. When their intolerance ceases, I will
                return to being a tolerant person again on this issue. But right now
                I am no longer willing to turn the other cheek again, and again, and
                again. Sometimes you have to dig in your heals and say "Enough!"

                By the way, my previous remark was humor and this one isn't. This I
                thought you should know.

                Give the world a break and lighten up.

                Dennis

                --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Lenartowick"
                <mlenartowick@...> wrote:
                >
                > Now Dennis,
                >
                >
                > You should know better! I hope your comment was said in jest, but
                even at that, I find your remark to be offensive, inappropriate and
                inflammatory. It would be like saying Catholicism teaches love and
                respect yet sodomize their youth. Both have a basis in truth, but
                both are grossly overstated extremes and nothing more than a
                provocative and dangerous use of the truth.
                >
                > You should consider an apology.
                >
                > With respect,
                > Mark
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Dennis Benarz
                > To: Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:11 AM
                > Subject: [Galicia_Poland-Ukraine] Re: BBC map of Muslim/Christian
                distribution in Europe
                >
                >
                > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some Islamist-nationalist
                party
                > probably protested the map calling it an affront to Islam and
                > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is not violent
                > religion spread by the sword and it issues death sentences to
                those
                > who say it is.
                >
                > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the subject.
                >
                > Dennis
                >
                > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                > <einamaka@> wrote:
                > >
                > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from that article.
                The
                > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article where the map
                was
                > > once located.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Where's the map?
                > > >
                > > > ______
                > > >
                > > > Lavrentiy
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map showing the
                > > > distribution
                > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in the middle
                part of
                > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because this article
                was
                > > in
                > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the controversy his
                > > recent
                > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                > > > >
                > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                > > > >
                > > > > Cheers!
                > > > > Erika
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • einamaka
                that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented. It started at Italy on the
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
                  that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                  article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented. It
                  started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the east...

                  wish i had copied the jpg =\




                  --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                  <era4082000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                  >
                  > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                  >
                  > Ed Amrick
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                  > > Islamist-nationalist party
                  > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                  > > Islam and
                  > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                  > > not violent
                  > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                  > > sentences to those
                  > > who say it is.
                  > >
                  > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                  > > subject.
                  > >
                  > > Dennis
                  > >
                  > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "einamaka"
                  > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                  > > that article. The
                  > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                  > > where the map was
                  > > > once located.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "krupniak"
                  > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Where's the map?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ______
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Lavrentiy
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                  > > "einamaka"
                  > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                  > > showing the
                  > > > > distribution
                  > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                  > > the middle part of
                  > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                  > > this article was
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                  > > controversy his
                  > > > recent
                  > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Cheers!
                  > > > > > Erika
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  _____________________________________________________________________
                  _______________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                  > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                • einamaka
                  ... _____________________________________________________________________
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 1, 2006
                    --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                    <era4082000@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                    >
                    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                    >
                    > Ed Amrick
                    >
                    >
                    > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                    > > Islamist-nationalist party
                    > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                    > > Islam and
                    > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                    > > not violent
                    > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                    > > sentences to those
                    > > who say it is.
                    > >
                    > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                    > > subject.
                    > >
                    > > Dennis
                    > >
                    > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > "einamaka"
                    > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                    > > that article. The
                    > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                    > > where the map was
                    > > > once located.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > "krupniak"
                    > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Where's the map?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ______
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Lavrentiy
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > "einamaka"
                    > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                    > > showing the
                    > > > > distribution
                    > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                    > > the middle part of
                    > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                    > > this article was
                    > > > in
                    > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                    > > controversy his
                    > > > recent
                    > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Cheers!
                    > > > > > Erika
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    _____________________________________________________________________
                    _______________
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                    > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                  • krupniak
                    Hello Dennis! ... You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox churches are organized. ;-) In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                      Hello Dennis!

                      You're only correct statement was:

                      > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.


                      You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox churches
                      are organized. ;-)

                      In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of Constantinople is
                      like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                      British Prime Minister.

                      _______

                      Lavrentiy
                    • krupniak
                      go here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm then click on on text link See a map of where Orthodox and Catholic Europe meets The maps has the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                        go here:


                        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm


                        then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and Catholic
                        Europe meets"


                        The maps has the following URL:


                        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map



                        ______

                        Lavrentiy







                        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                        <einamaka@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                        > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented.
                        It
                        > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the east...
                        >
                        > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                        > <era4082000@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                        > >
                        > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                        > >
                        > > Ed Amrick
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                        > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                        > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                        > > > Islam and
                        > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                        > > > not violent
                        > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                        > > > sentences to those
                        > > > who say it is.
                        > > >
                        > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                        > > > subject.
                        > > >
                        > > > Dennis
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > "einamaka"
                        > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                        > > > that article. The
                        > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                        > > > where the map was
                        > > > > once located.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > "krupniak"
                        > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Where's the map?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > ______
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Lavrentiy
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > "einamaka"
                        > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                        > > > showing the
                        > > > > > distribution
                        > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                        > > > the middle part of
                        > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                        > > > this article was
                        > > > > in
                        > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                        > > > controversy his
                        > > > > recent
                        > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Cheers!
                        > > > > > > Erika
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        _____________________________________________________________________
                        > _______________
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                        > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        >
                      • krupniak
                        Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem presidential primaries. ...
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                          Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary
                          Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem
                          presidential primaries.





                          --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                          <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Dennis!
                          >
                          > You're only correct statement was:
                          >
                          > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                          >
                          >
                          > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                          churches
                          > are organized. ;-)
                          >
                          > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                          Constantinople is
                          > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                          > British Prime Minister.
                          >
                          > _______
                          >
                          > Lavrentiy
                          >
                        • krupniak
                          ... i.e. they are the elephants in the respective rooms. ... like
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                            "krupniak" wrote:
                            >
                            > Or, I should have said that Patriarch of Moscow is like Hillary
                            > Clinton in a room of potential Dem candidates for the 2008 Dem
                            > presidential primaries.



                            i.e. they are the elephants in the respective rooms.



                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                            > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello Dennis!
                            > >
                            > > You're only correct statement was:
                            > >
                            > > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                            > churches
                            > > are organized. ;-)
                            > >
                            > > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                            > Constantinople is
                            > > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is
                            like
                            > > British Prime Minister.
                            > >
                            > > _______
                            > >
                            > > Lavrentiy
                            > >
                            >
                          • Kim Krett-cable
                            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map Try this link. Kim
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                            • krupniak
                              ... Your ;-) ... churches ... Constantinople is
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                "krupniak" <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello Dennis!
                                >
                                > You're



                                Your ;-)





                                only correct statement was:
                                >
                                > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                                >
                                >
                                > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                                churches
                                > are organized. ;-)
                                >
                                > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                                Constantinople is
                                > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is like
                                > British Prime Minister.
                                >
                                > _______
                                >
                                > Lavrentiy
                                >
                              • krupniak
                                Note that the area of Western Ukraine which is colored blue ( Majority Catholic (sic) )is the area that was Austrian Galicia, where Orthodoxy was forbidden
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                  Note that the area of Western Ukraine which is colored blue
                                  ("Majority "Catholic' (sic)")is the area that was Austrian Galicia,
                                  where Orthodoxy was forbidden to exist by the Austrians.

                                  ______

                                  Lavrentiy



                                  --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                  <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > go here:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and
                                  Catholic
                                  > Europe meets"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The maps has the following URL:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ______
                                  >
                                  > Lavrentiy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                                  > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in the
                                  > > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being represented.
                                  > It
                                  > > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the
                                  east...
                                  > >
                                  > > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                                  > > <era4082000@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Ed Amrick
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                                  > > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                                  > > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                                  > > > > Islam and
                                  > > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                                  > > > > not violent
                                  > > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                                  > > > > sentences to those
                                  > > > > who say it is.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                                  > > > > subject.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Dennis
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > > > "einamaka"
                                  > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                                  > > > > that article. The
                                  > > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                                  > > > > where the map was
                                  > > > > > once located.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > > > "krupniak"
                                  > > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Where's the map?
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > ______
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > > > "einamaka"
                                  > > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                                  > > > > showing the
                                  > > > > > > distribution
                                  > > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                                  > > > > the middle part of
                                  > > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                                  > > > > this article was
                                  > > > > > in
                                  > > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                                  > > > > controversy his
                                  > > > > > recent
                                  > > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Cheers!
                                  > > > > > > > Erika
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  _____________________________________________________________________
                                  > > _______________
                                  > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                  > > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • krupniak
                                  Moscow .. the Third Rome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/moscowtr.htm
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                    Moscow .. the Third Rome:

                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome

                                    http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/moscowtr.htm

                                    http://www.uoregon.edu/~sshoemak/325/texts/moscow_the_third_rome.htm

                                    http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm


                                    --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                    <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "krupniak" <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hello Dennis!
                                    > >
                                    > > You're
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your ;-)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > only correct statement was:
                                    > >
                                    > > > The issue here is the Schism of 1054 and theology.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > You, like the Vatican, are clueless on how Eastern Orthodox
                                    > churches
                                    > > are organized. ;-)
                                    > >
                                    > > In realty, in the Orthodox world, the Patriarch of
                                    > Constantinople is
                                    > > like the Queen of England, whereas the Patriarch of Moscow is
                                    like
                                    > > British Prime Minister.
                                    > >
                                    > > _______
                                    > >
                                    > > Lavrentiy
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • krupniak
                                    ... It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church. _______ Lavrentiy
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                      --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"


                                      > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm


                                      It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.

                                      _______

                                      Lavrentiy
                                    • krupniak
                                      Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the king s horses and the king s men Couldn t put Humpty together again.
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                        Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
                                        Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
                                        All the king's horses and the king's men
                                        Couldn't put Humpty together again.


                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty






                                        --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                        <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.
                                        >
                                        > _______
                                        >
                                        > Lavrentiy
                                        >
                                      • einamaka
                                        yes that is the map! =) ... Catholic ... the ... represented. ... east...
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                          yes that is the map! =)

                                          --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                          <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > go here:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > then click on on text link " See a map of where Orthodox and
                                          Catholic
                                          > Europe meets"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > The maps has the following URL:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm#map
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ______
                                          >
                                          > Lavrentiy
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "einamaka"
                                          > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > that map is actually a different one than the one that was in
                                          the
                                          > > article. It had Catholic, Orthodox, and Muslim being
                                          represented.
                                          > It
                                          > > started at Italy on the west and ended in with Turkey to the
                                          east...
                                          > >
                                          > > wish i had copied the jpg =\
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, edward amrick
                                          > > <era4082000@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The map is not out in the ope, but can be seen at
                                          > > >
                                          > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ed Amrick
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- Dennis Benarz <benarz@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > The BBC may have gotten cold feet. Some
                                          > > > > Islamist-nationalist party
                                          > > > > probably protested the map calling it an affront to
                                          > > > > Islam and
                                          > > > > offensive to Muslims everywhere. Islam claims it is
                                          > > > > not violent
                                          > > > > religion spread by the sword and it issues death
                                          > > > > sentences to those
                                          > > > > who say it is.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > That sure puts a crimp on discussions of the
                                          > > > > subject.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Dennis
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > > > > "einamaka"
                                          > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > weird, it looks like the BBC removed the map from
                                          > > > > that article. The
                                          > > > > > hyperlink brought you to the end of the article
                                          > > > > where the map was
                                          > > > > > once located.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > > > > "krupniak"
                                          > > > > > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Where's the map?
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > ______
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Lavrentiy
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > > > > "einamaka"
                                          > > > > > > <einamaka@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > My mother forwarded me this interesting map
                                          > > > > showing the
                                          > > > > > > distribution
                                          > > > > > > > of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim religion in
                                          > > > > the middle part of
                                          > > > > > > > Europe. I assume Judiasm was left out because
                                          > > > > this article was
                                          > > > > > in
                                          > > > > > > > relation to Pope's visit to Turkey and the
                                          > > > > controversy his
                                          > > > > > recent
                                          > > > > > > > remarks about Islam had caused.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6158811.stm#map
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Cheers!
                                          > > > > > > > Erika
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          _____________________________________________________________________
                                          > > _______________
                                          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                          > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
                                          > > > http://new.mail.yahoo.com
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Dennis Benarz
                                          Hi Larry Like it or not, Bartholomew I among his many titles is still called the Ecumenical Patriarch , first among equals , Patriarch of the Orthodox
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Dec 2, 2006
                                            Hi Larry

                                            Like it or not, Bartholomew I among his many titles is still
                                            called "the Ecumenical Patriarch", "first among equals", "Patriarch
                                            of the Orthodox Church of Constantinople", and "the spiritual leader
                                            of Eastern Orthodoxy".

                                            Obviously, you'd like most of those terms to be transferred to the
                                            Patriarchate of Moscow but wishing does not make it so. And perhaps
                                            that is for the best because real independence and freedom from
                                            control or influence by the Russian government has not yet been
                                            clearly established for the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia. Don't
                                            be so quick to cast your lot with Moscow merely because of its long
                                            association with eastern Slavic culture.

                                            You bristled at the mention of the Catholic Church and now you
                                            bristle at mention of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Try not to
                                            bristle quite so much regarding such trivial religious issues, Larry,
                                            you'll live longer. They are all parts of Christendom.

                                            Just as Hillary Clinton does not speak for the Democratic Party, the
                                            Patriarch of Moscow does not speak for Eastern Orthodoxy.

                                            Paraphrasing Hamlet: "Alas, poor Humpty. I knew him well."

                                            Dennis

                                            --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                            <Lkrupnak@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
                                            > Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
                                            > All the king's horses and the king's men
                                            > Couldn't put Humpty together again.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                            > <Lkrupnak@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Galicia_Poland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, "krupniak"
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > > http://www.grecoreport.com/Bartholomew_Denounces.htm
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > It will take Jesus Christ to fix his Church.
                                            > >
                                            > > _______
                                            > >
                                            > > Lavrentiy
                                            > >
                                            >
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