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44763RE: Re: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: How to read messages?

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  • eric_cigan
    Oct 25, 2013

      I appreciate your principled stand, but I can't help from commenting that this situation is starting to feel somewhat like the recent standoff over the US government partial shutdown and the debt limit. In the interest of avoiding an irrelevant quarrel over American domestic politics, I don't want to state that either party should have been blamed over that episode, but the expression "being held hostage" was often applied to the situation.

      In my view, you have decided to hold this Yahoo group hostage. This group was an extremely active Yahoo group as these things go, and many people were being helped with the research, or simply learned a lot from the discussion threads. Now regrettably, this has come to a halt and we have been reduced to seeing a continuing thread of increasingly shrill comments at the expense of Yahoo executives.

      I can't speak for Yahoo, and frankly I don't have much of an understanding for what features have been lost in going from the old Yahoo groups to Neo, but as an employee of a mid-sized software development company, I feel like I have a particular perspective. We have all been beneficiaries of the service that Yahoo provides for years, and in all that time, I don't think any of us has had to pay fees to Yahoo to enjoy the benefits of Yahoo Groups. That's because their business model relied on members of groups going on to use other Yahoo services, or data mining of our behavior while on Yahoo, or simply being exposed to adverting on the Yahoo site.

      Yahoo is a for-profit company and due to management changes, yes, they have made changes that have reduced functionality. I don't think that was smart of them, but it was their prerogative. It doesn't make sense to characterize them as being evil or greedy: it's just business, Lavrentiy. Yahoo was on a trajectory to become irrelevant in some amount of time, and it was the duty of Yahoo executives to make changes in hopes of growth and increased profitability. 

      As sole moderator and a major contributor to the content, you have earned the right to be a group leader; however, the group members also have a stake in the group every bit as much as you do.

      From the comments on this thread, I perceive that many, if not most, group members would favor a resumption of the group's normal operation, Neo or no. You have responded that group administration would increase, and in response there have been volunteers willing to assist you in this. You have declined their help, saying that multiple moderators would be unworkable, but wouldn't it be worth a try to do this?

      I'd like to propose that you set a date certain by which you will end this standoff with Yahoo. In my opinion, your approach of an indefinite hold on group traffic amounts to tilting at windmills, and the loss of normal operation has become intolerable to the group members, 

      You alone hold the power over the group administration, but at some point someone will take the initiative to start a new group -- whether on Yahoo or another portal -- to provide this same service. I would be sorry to see that occur, but I expect that many group members would swiftly defect to the new group.

      Please relent and set a date to end this: otherwise it's almost inevitable that you will doom the very group that you have done so much to establish. 

      --Eric Cigan

      ---In GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com, <galiciapoland-ukraine@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Hello Pat,


           What are the other Y-Groups so that I can see:


      o   size of group


      o   how active are they


      o   what specific functions do moderators perform, such as do they moderate all posts.



      Under NEO, moderation duties add about 3x the time required compared to the old version. n If a moderator basically has the group under "auto-pilot", then that moderator is not affected by the change to NEO.






      From: "Pat T" <patnj@...>
      To: GaliciaPoland-Ukraine@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:50:09 AM
      Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] Re: How to read messages?


      As other moderators of Yahoo groups I belong to are not happy with the change, they are adapting and continueing. By putting this group site on suspension, for your stated reason, is not good enough for  me/members to help one another or post findings over the pond or here in USA.
      You may not agree with me, but I've seen a lot of change since 1990 when I first became a member of Compuserve, then *Prodigy, then the internet was made available to everyone.  I've muddled my way through Word and spread sheets without professional teaching, "because I was determined to learn".
      If someone else, or others want to be moderators, then so be it.
      Pat Tucker
      Perth Amboy, NJ   USA

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