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Re: Conspiracy Con in San Jose... what an event!

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  • Brian Vaughan
    Pretty interesting, all the names you mentioned seem at least a bit familiar, I ve definitely read stuff about Banister & Swerdlow in the past. It seems all
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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      Pretty interesting, all the names you mentioned seem at least a
      bit familiar, I've definitely read stuff about Banister & Swerdlow in
      the past. It seems all the Brits I know on-line are still using the
      British pound, it still seems prevalent within their country, last I
      knew it was still worth more than the dollar & the euro, with the
      dollar being on the bottom of the pile. The U.K. would be way better
      off getting out of the E.U., they could then get back their
      sovereignty as a nation & reclaim the things they lost by joining
      (among these would be the right to buy vitamins in decent dosages
      over the counter without a bloody prescription!).
      Let me know ahead of time when one of these events happens again,
      please, like at least 2 weeks if you know that soon, or even earlier.
      I wasn't in shape to go last weekend but would like to attend
      sometime.
      The name of the event sort of reminds me of what we have running
      this country right now, except they are actually Conspiratorial Cons!

      Cheers,
      B.V.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      --- In G_Dawn@yahoogroups.com, wayne hawes <dhawes2002@...> wrote:
      >
      > So Conspiracy Con this past Memorial Day weekend was quite
      interesting. It was held at the Doubletree Hotel in San Jose.
      >
      > There were speakers ranging from very sober politicians to self
      described mind control survivors.
      >
      > On the one side was Ashley Mote, a British MEP - - member of the
      European Parliament - - who said convincingly that Britain needs to
      get out of the European Union. There was also a former special agent
      for the I.R.S., Joe Banister, who got trained at U.S. Marshalls'
      school. The IRS has really gone after him after he resigned from the
      organization, and spoke out against it.
      >
      > On the other side was Stewart Swerdlow, one of a fair number of
      people who claim that they were survivors of the Montauk Project in
      the early seventies. He says the research involved
      interdimensionality, mind control, time travel, contact with
      extraterrestrials, etc. He gave us an in depth history of the ties
      of planet Earth to other worlds going back tens of thousands of years.
      >
      > I met author Adam GoRightly there, and he introduced me to Kenn
      Thomas, editor of "Steam Shovel Press" and author of "Parapolitics."
      Also Skylaire Alfvegren, who writes as a free-lancer for "Hustler"
      magazine and other publications. We all went out to the AMORC
      Egyptian temple and took zany photos - - and went into the tomb
      inside the museum.
      >
      > Also visited the Quetzalcoatl statue, which some people call
      dinosaur dew-dew that fell out of the sky because of its unsightly
      appearance.
      >
      > There were other great speakers. If you are all interested, I
      could fill you in on more of what happened at Conspiracy Con.
      >
      > The drawback of Conspiracy Con is that one speaker made us look
      at the Zapgruder footage of Kennedy's assassination over and over
      again.
      >
      > Later, Douglas
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
      Yahoo! FareChase.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • wayne hawes
      Hi Brian, Conspiracy Cons might work as a name for a rock band... So the UFO Expo is coming up next. I will save this as a draft and come back after a
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 2, 2007
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        Hi Brian,

        "Conspiracy Cons" might work as a name for a rock band...

        So the UFO Expo is coming up next. I will save this as a "draft" and come back after a little research with a firm date.

        The main argument that Ashley Mote and others in the U.K. Independence Party are asserting is that they are giving away their hard won British sovereignty and liberty to a European Union dominated by Continental powers (France and Germany) that are traditionally used to an all powerful state that controls people's lives. The state saying what you can and cannot do, granting a little liberty here, restricting or taking away a little liberty there, etc.

        They are asserting that in British tradition since Magna Carta (1215) it is understood that the government must have the consent of the governed, and that the king is the servant of the people, not the other way around. These Brits are asserting that in Continental Europe they have the attitude that the people are the servants, or vassals, of the state.

        In daily practical terms the British are dealing with all these new onerous E.U. directives that are dictating policy to Britain in areas such as agriculture, forests, fisheries, pensions, labor law, and on and on and on. These Brits assert that the Europeans just are too into regulating every aspect of daily life. And that this regulatory mindset is just un-British.

        So Mote warned us that what the E.U. is trying to do to Europe and to Britain will soon be happening to us if the North American Union becomes a reality.

        So my research is complete - - the Bay Area UFO Expo is being held on August 25 and 26 at the Doubletree Hotel, right next to Highway 101 in San Jose. Very close to the airport.

        A whole lineup of speakers which I have never heard of before, except for a small few.

        The webpage, I believe, is www.thebayareaufoexpo.com.

        It is seen as perhaps the best UFO convention in the country.

        Douglas

        Brian Vaughan <sonikcraft@...> wrote:
        Pretty interesting, all the names you mentioned seem at least a
        bit familiar, I've definitely read stuff about Banister & Swerdlow in
        the past. It seems all the Brits I know on-line are still using the
        British pound, it still seems prevalent within their country, last I
        knew it was still worth more than the dollar & the euro, with the
        dollar being on the bottom of the pile. The U.K. would be way better
        off getting out of the E.U., they could then get back their
        sovereignty as a nation & reclaim the things they lost by joining
        (among these would be the right to buy vitamins in decent dosages
        over the counter without a bloody prescription!).
        Let me know ahead of time when one of these events happens again,
        please, like at least 2 weeks if you know that soon, or even earlier.
        I wasn't in shape to go last weekend but would like to attend
        sometime.
        The name of the event sort of reminds me of what we have running
        this country right now, except they are actually Conspiratorial Cons!

        Cheers,
        B.V.

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        --- In G_Dawn@yahoogroups.com, wayne hawes <dhawes2002@...> wrote:
        >
        > So Conspiracy Con this past Memorial Day weekend was quite
        interesting. It was held at the Doubletree Hotel in San Jose.
        >
        > There were speakers ranging from very sober politicians to self
        described mind control survivors.
        >
        > On the one side was Ashley Mote, a British MEP - - member of the
        European Parliament - - who said convincingly that Britain needs to
        get out of the European Union. There was also a former special agent
        for the I.R.S., Joe Banister, who got trained at U.S. Marshalls'
        school. The IRS has really gone after him after he resigned from the
        organization, and spoke out against it.
        >
        > On the other side was Stewart Swerdlow, one of a fair number of
        people who claim that they were survivors of the Montauk Project in
        the early seventies. He says the research involved
        interdimensionality, mind control, time travel, contact with
        extraterrestrials, etc. He gave us an in depth history of the ties
        of planet Earth to other worlds going back tens of thousands of years.
        >
        > I met author Adam GoRightly there, and he introduced me to Kenn
        Thomas, editor of "Steam Shovel Press" and author of "Parapolitics."
        Also Skylaire Alfvegren, who writes as a free-lancer for "Hustler"
        magazine and other publications. We all went out to the AMORC
        Egyptian temple and took zany photos - - and went into the tomb
        inside the museum.
        >
        > Also visited the Quetzalcoatl statue, which some people call
        dinosaur dew-dew that fell out of the sky because of its unsightly
        appearance.
        >
        > There were other great speakers. If you are all interested, I
        could fill you in on more of what happened at Conspiracy Con.
        >
        > The drawback of Conspiracy Con is that one speaker made us look
        at the Zapgruder footage of Kennedy's assassination over and over
        again.
        >
        > Later, Douglas
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
        Yahoo! FareChase.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >






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      • Kinney777@aol.com
        Of course the North American Union is designed to delete individual liberty. Of course it is. The NAU supporters are either naive or uniformed. The Maga
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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          Of course the North American Union is designed to delete individual liberty.
          Of course it is. The NAU supporters are either naive or uniformed. The Maga
          Carta humbled...who'da thunk it. But for the will of concerned and awake
          citizens, so go we.
          G



          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve S
          ... the european left will argue that sarkosy and merkel are more american leaning on the role of government in society,, sarkosy mostly ran as one that
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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            > The main argument that Ashley Mote and others in
            > the U.K. Independence Party are asserting is that
            > they are giving away their hard won British
            > sovereignty and liberty to a European Union
            > dominated by Continental powers (France and Germany)
            > that are traditionally used to an all powerful state
            > that controls people's lives. The state saying what
            > you can and cannot do, granting a little liberty
            > here, restricting or taking away a little liberty
            > there, etc.

            the european left will argue that sarkosy and merkel
            are more "american" leaning on the role of government
            in society,, sarkosy mostly ran as one that would
            usher in american economic reforms and stricter
            immigration laws, merkel has been refered to as the
            german thatcher,, and beyond that, what if the people
            do want to have societal constraints so they can fend
            off aggressive abusers of individual rights,, just as
            i try to argue that the blanket right of an individual
            to carry a gun in reality places a burden on me to
            carry a gun, restricting distribution of things in the
            name of a free market, think someone mentioned medical
            supplements, and having regulations on what is made
            available allows the general population to develop a
            bit of comfort with what is offered,, at some point
            you have to determine a street grid and ask people to
            stop driving over all the earth,, of coarse either
            side can be pushed to an extreme that is more harmful
            than the other, but deciding that line is up for
            debate,, of all my favorite arguements for
            restrictions on individual rights is the linkage of
            free speech with election financing, the purist will
            argue that we can't restrict the individual and we
            can't tell them what they do with their money and
            mouth, but following that to a clear division of
            options essentially grants control of the election to
            the rich and craps on the rights of the poor,, rights
            run amok become restrictions on the weak and poor, i'd
            like to think we want to preserve the rights of the
            poor as much as the rich, the uneducated as much as
            the educated, the weak as much as the strong, the ugly
            as much as the beautiful, the young and elderly as
            much as the prime of lifers,, a libertarian approach
            to rights yeilds a system that tilts far out of
            balance, rights, be it individual or communal, require
            structure else the stronger and more devious will
            stomp all over the weak and honest, as they will
            assert is their right to do,,

            as for the eu, we've experienced the sovereign
            absolutists run the of european countries and it gave
            us lots of death and war,, one person's stripping of
            sovereignty is anothers move towards cooperation and
            togetherness,, its always easy to blame the great
            overseer, but it is often that we overlook the
            microdictators (corrupt sherrifs,...)that can run amok
            in a decentralized environment, and as far as
            regulations we should not ignore the potential of the
            abusers of laissez faire laws (snake oil
            salesmen...),, the recent rash of food and medicinal
            exports out of china should give us cause for alarm
            and understand that we need controls less we let the
            whole game turn into a crapshoot,, i know i'm mixing
            messages here, the border sovereignty and the rights
            of individuals to buy whatever, but that is the
            challenge we all face if we want to live in harmony,
            the best way to preserve the rights of all is to find
            that balance,

            > They are asserting that in British tradition since
            > Magna Carta (1215) it is understood that the
            > government must have the consent of the governed,
            > and that the king is the servant of the people, not
            > the other way around. These Brits are asserting
            > that in Continental Europe they have the attitude
            > that the people are the servants, or vassals, of the
            > state.

            the emergence of democracy and the right of a vote has
            addressed this, the magna carta envisioned voter
            rights, but if the people vote to have a strong
            central government that is confined by the process of
            elections, one that pushes ideas that the voters want
            to have pushed (regulations) then they are not giving
            up their individual rights neccessarily,, for an
            individual to have effective and workable rights they
            must operate in an environment that is not being
            defined by the extremes, you have to resist the
            chaotic just as you have to resist the totalitarianism

            how's everyone, hope everyone is doing well, i'm a bit
            less gloomy after we finally got some rain, been 5
            weeks or so since any rain, clearing the air of all
            the allergies, i think i actually smelled something
            for the first time in months this morning,,





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          • Kinney777@aol.com
            In a message dated 6/3/2007 2:59:17 PM Central Daylight Time, weencock@yahoo.com writes: of all my favorite arguements for restrictions on individual rights
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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              In a message dated 6/3/2007 2:59:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
              weencock@... writes:

              of all my favorite arguements for
              restrictions on individual rights is the linkage of
              free speech with election financing


              I agree with Steve on this. Ironic that this element of "free speech"
              costs lots and lots and lots of cash.
              G



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            • wayne hawes
              Being in New York City recently, I really got a sense of how the power elite is linked together, and how they think globally rather than nationally. The
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 3, 2007
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                Being in New York City recently, I really got a sense of how the power elite is linked together, and how they think globally rather than nationally. The people behind the drive toward the NAU.

                New York City is the critical nexus. There is so much wealth and power in that city!

                The Federal Reserve Bank of New York, with all the gold bars located in cages five stories underground. 25% of the world's gold reserves, according to the guide book.

                Across the street, the world headquarters of Chase Manhattan Bank - - as if hinting at who's boss of the Federal Reserve system. David Rockefeller for years the chairman - - also the founder of the Trilateral Commission.

                The Council on Foreign Relations headquarters is in the Upper East Side. A faceless but dignified building without even a sign indicating who is headquartered there. Just the street number, "68," over the door lintel. With a security man going by the front door if anyone is hovering outside for too long.

                The United Nations headquarters only seven or eight blocks away. On land picked out by Nelson Rockefeller, purchased with money donated by John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

                These are the globalists.

                Kinney777@... wrote:
                Of course the North American Union is designed to delete individual liberty.
                Of course it is. The NAU supporters are either naive or uniformed. The Maga
                Carta humbled...who'da thunk it. But for the will of concerned and awake
                citizens, so go we.
                G

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              • Steve S
                ... . Ironic that this element ... this seems so absurd on the face of it, but it is very important to look at it critically,, it is bad practice to try to
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
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                  --- Kinney777@... wrote:
                  . Ironic that this element
                  > of "free speech"
                  > costs lots and lots and lots of cash.
                  > G

                  this seems so absurd on the face of it, but it is very
                  important to look at it critically,, it is bad
                  practice to try to reduce things to the simplist black
                  and white distinction as many do with free speech and
                  as many try to do with pieces of the bill of rights,,
                  we should try to hold on to all the rights we can, but
                  also be willing to understand that life can be quite
                  tricky at times,, free speech should not be honored to
                  the extent that it destroys an honest democracy,,
                  buying an election is unfortunately the way it works
                  today,, i still say we have strict public funding of
                  elections and the free speech absolutists will just
                  need to give in on this one else we will be dictated
                  to by the rich with the occasional radical populist
                  rising up when things get a bit out of control like in
                  venezuela, chavez wasn't brought in by money but he is
                  a response to the abuse of the system by the rich, and
                  now chavez is quickly becoming the least tolerant
                  leader in south america ruling by threat and blanket
                  control of society, he's like the latino putin,,

                  meant to lay off the speeches, but i'm stalling going
                  back outside, painting my house, removing old paint is
                  fun fun fun,,
                  also saw bert jansch last weekend, awesome guy, great
                  musician, was easily up there with seeing roky, at
                  least for me,,

                  steve s



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                • wayne hawes
                  There is also the aspect of the argument in which it can be asserted that the American people are essentially lazy when it comes to politics. $100 to $200
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
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                    There is also the aspect of the argument in which it can be asserted that the American people are essentially lazy when it comes to politics. $100 to $200 billion are spent on alcohol annually. $30 billion on tattoos. $60 billion on dieting. I'm throwing these numbers out there, but they are not that far off.

                    Rather than restricting campaign spending so much, and talking about how free speech needs to be restricted, rank and file Americans need to start marshalling their resources and form political committees.

                    Why not start a Texas Psych PAC?

                    Douglas

                    Steve S <weencock@...> wrote:

                    --- Kinney777@... wrote:
                    . Ironic that this element
                    > of "free speech"
                    > costs lots and lots and lots of cash.
                    > G

                    this seems so absurd on the face of it, but it is very
                    important to look at it critically,, it is bad
                    practice to try to reduce things to the simplist black
                    and white distinction as many do with free speech and
                    as many try to do with pieces of the bill of rights,,
                    we should try to hold on to all the rights we can, but
                    also be willing to understand that life can be quite
                    tricky at times,, free speech should not be honored to
                    the extent that it destroys an honest democracy,,
                    buying an election is unfortunately the way it works
                    today,, i still say we have strict public funding of
                    elections and the free speech absolutists will just
                    need to give in on this one else we will be dictated
                    to by the rich with the occasional radical populist
                    rising up when things get a bit out of control like in
                    venezuela, chavez wasn't brought in by money but he is
                    a response to the abuse of the system by the rich, and
                    now chavez is quickly becoming the least tolerant
                    leader in south america ruling by threat and blanket
                    control of society, he's like the latino putin,,

                    meant to lay off the speeches, but i'm stalling going
                    back outside, painting my house, removing old paint is
                    fun fun fun,,
                    also saw bert jansch last weekend, awesome guy, great
                    musician, was easily up there with seeing roky, at
                    least for me,,

                    steve s

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                  • Kinney777@aol.com
                    Nice post. I agree with most of it. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is always used as a caveat to free speech and I think it is a good one. But,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 6, 2007
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                      Nice post. I agree with most of it. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is
                      always used as a caveat to free speech and I think it is a good one. But,
                      yelling fire is not only a right, but a responsibility is there, indeed,
                      is a fire.
                      But there really are issues that require giving in to public interests at
                      the expense of pirvate rights. Many issues. It is a slippery slope,
                      though, once you start sliding down it.
                      G



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                    • Steve S
                      ... believe it or not, i m very sympathetic to this slippery slope arguement, on this list i pretty much come across as ignoring it in a way because the
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 8, 2007
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                        --- Kinney777@... wrote:
                        > the expense of pirvate rights. Many issues. It is
                        > a slippery slope,
                        > though, once you start sliding down it.
                        > G

                        believe it or not, i'm very sympathetic to this
                        slippery slope arguement, on this list i pretty much
                        come across as ignoring it in a way because the
                        prevailing push for individual rights doesn't really
                        need any more of a shove, you guys do a great job of
                        focusing on that,, the slippery slope issue is more
                        directed towards the separation of church and state,
                        the idea of formal acceptance of a defined higher
                        spiritual guidance, i'm all for finding meaning or
                        seeking a deeper purpose, but i feel we far too often
                        create one without much solid foundation beneath it,,
                        but as for the more famous individual rights addressed
                        in the bill of rights, i think many of those can be
                        taken to a point of hurting the whole in the pursuit
                        of the rights of the irresponsible,, not that i'm not
                        for irresponsible people, many of my best friends are
                        irresponsible and i love em to death,, still
                        reponsibility not accepted is not responsibility at
                        all,

                        anyhow,, how ya doing george, i've been away from the
                        computer for a while, last you were having some health
                        issues and heading down to mexico,,
                        hope all is well

                        i was sort of hoping to hear some comments on ron
                        paul, he's certainly getting that attention the
                        bloggers claim he is denied,, i'm happy the focus has
                        been on the issue i agree with him on, the war in
                        iraq,, i'm not always in agreement with his outright
                        isolationist tendancies cause i feel we as this giant
                        rich behemouth do owe a bit of effort to help others,
                        in the case of iraq, that was far from an example we
                        owed the world our efforts, in fact it wasn't a way to
                        help others, it was nothing more than a shortside,
                        simple minded cowboy trying to be a badass, all
                        without any risk to his own well being mind you,, i
                        used to just giggle when i heard people suggest w
                        would be the worst president in history, there have
                        been some doozies, but i'm now convinced, the
                        disasterous iraq war, the neglect of our place in
                        international circles, the total miscalculation of how
                        to deal with north korea and iran, the grotesque
                        handout of wealth to the already insanely rich through
                        tax cuts, the pathetic neglect of environmental
                        issues,, i actually think this idiot may have leaped
                        right up to the top, takes a lot to out moron hoover
                        but he seems to have done it

                        steve s





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                      • wayne hawes
                        So I just heard some second hand news about the border situation in Texas. From the Mexican-American lady who with her husband hosts a weekly joy group
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 8, 2007
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                          So I just heard some second hand news about the border situation in Texas. From the Mexican-American lady who with her husband hosts a weekly "joy group" (Bible Study) at their house here in San Jose.

                          Her husband's oldest sister is in town from Nuevo Laredo - - a border town, I guess, along the Rio Grande. The sister is a school administrator, and is scared a lot about what is happening in Nuevo Laredo. She wants to get her family out of there.

                          She is saying that a lot of events in Nuevo Laredo are not getting reported in the news. How people are being threatened, and murdered, by the drug gangs that are using Nuevo Laredo as their main entry point into the United States. Anyone who talks out against them is shot. People are afraid down there, and many want to leave.

                          Douglas

                          Steve S <weencock@...> wrote:
                          --- Kinney777@... wrote:
                          > the expense of pirvate rights. Many issues. It is
                          > a slippery slope,
                          > though, once you start sliding down it.
                          > G

                          believe it or not, i'm very sympathetic to this
                          slippery slope arguement, on this list i pretty much
                          come across as ignoring it in a way because the
                          prevailing push for individual rights doesn't really
                          need any more of a shove, you guys do a great job of
                          focusing on that,, the slippery slope issue is more
                          directed towards the separation of church and state,
                          the idea of formal acceptance of a defined higher
                          spiritual guidance, i'm all for finding meaning or
                          seeking a deeper purpose, but i feel we far too often
                          create one without much solid foundation beneath it,,
                          but as for the more famous individual rights addressed
                          in the bill of rights, i think many of those can be
                          taken to a point of hurting the whole in the pursuit
                          of the rights of the irresponsible,, not that i'm not
                          for irresponsible people, many of my best friends are
                          irresponsible and i love em to death,, still
                          reponsibility not accepted is not responsibility at
                          all,

                          anyhow,, how ya doing george, i've been away from the
                          computer for a while, last you were having some health
                          issues and heading down to mexico,,
                          hope all is well

                          i was sort of hoping to hear some comments on ron
                          paul, he's certainly getting that attention the
                          bloggers claim he is denied,, i'm happy the focus has
                          been on the issue i agree with him on, the war in
                          iraq,, i'm not always in agreement with his outright
                          isolationist tendancies cause i feel we as this giant
                          rich behemouth do owe a bit of effort to help others,
                          in the case of iraq, that was far from an example we
                          owed the world our efforts, in fact it wasn't a way to
                          help others, it was nothing more than a shortside,
                          simple minded cowboy trying to be a badass, all
                          without any risk to his own well being mind you,, i
                          used to just giggle when i heard people suggest w
                          would be the worst president in history, there have
                          been some doozies, but i'm now convinced, the
                          disasterous iraq war, the neglect of our place in
                          international circles, the total miscalculation of how
                          to deal with north korea and iran, the grotesque
                          handout of wealth to the already insanely rich through
                          tax cuts, the pathetic neglect of environmental
                          issues,, i actually think this idiot may have leaped
                          right up to the top, takes a lot to out moron hoover
                          but he seems to have done it

                          steve s

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                        • wayne hawes
                          So I talked to the brother today at church, whose oldest sister lives in Nuevo Laredo. Apparently she has been wanting to leave Nuevo Laredo with her family
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 10, 2007
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                            So I talked to the brother today at church, whose oldest sister lives in Nuevo Laredo.

                            Apparently she has been wanting to leave Nuevo Laredo with her family for a long time, but developments and tensions of late in the border region are hastening her decision.

                            She is actually a school district adminstrator, which means she could be more aware of things going on in the larger region than I suggested earlier. Like getting the full story from the executive office, as school district adminstrators interface with police and local county and state officials on how to deal with local developments - - and how to advise teachers and parents on how to respond to the tensions and the pressures.

                            wayne hawes <dhawes2002@...> wrote:
                            So I just heard some second hand news about the border situation in Texas. From the Mexican-American lady who with her husband hosts a weekly "joy group" (Bible Study) at their house here in San Jose.

                            Her husband's oldest sister is in town from Nuevo Laredo - - a border town, I guess, along the Rio Grande. The sister is a school administrator, and is scared a lot about what is happening in Nuevo Laredo. She wants to get her family out of there.

                            She is saying that a lot of events in Nuevo Laredo are not getting reported in the news. How people are being threatened, and murdered, by the drug gangs that are using Nuevo Laredo as their main entry point into the United States. Anyone who talks out against them is shot. People are afraid down there, and many want to leave.

                            Douglas

                            Steve S <weencock@...> wrote:
                            --- Kinney777@... wrote:
                            > the expense of pirvate rights. Many issues. It is
                            > a slippery slope,
                            > though, once you start sliding down it.
                            > G

                            believe it or not, i'm very sympathetic to this
                            slippery slope arguement, on this list i pretty much
                            come across as ignoring it in a way because the
                            prevailing push for individual rights doesn't really
                            need any more of a shove, you guys do a great job of
                            focusing on that,, the slippery slope issue is more
                            directed towards the separation of church and state,
                            the idea of formal acceptance of a defined higher
                            spiritual guidance, i'm all for finding meaning or
                            seeking a deeper purpose, but i feel we far too often
                            create one without much solid foundation beneath it,,
                            but as for the more famous individual rights addressed
                            in the bill of rights, i think many of those can be
                            taken to a point of hurting the whole in the pursuit
                            of the rights of the irresponsible,, not that i'm not
                            for irresponsible people, many of my best friends are
                            irresponsible and i love em to death,, still
                            reponsibility not accepted is not responsibility at
                            all,

                            anyhow,, how ya doing george, i've been away from the
                            computer for a while, last you were having some health
                            issues and heading down to mexico,,
                            hope all is well

                            i was sort of hoping to hear some comments on ron
                            paul, he's certainly getting that attention the
                            bloggers claim he is denied,, i'm happy the focus has
                            been on the issue i agree with him on, the war in
                            iraq,, i'm not always in agreement with his outright
                            isolationist tendancies cause i feel we as this giant
                            rich behemouth do owe a bit of effort to help others,
                            in the case of iraq, that was far from an example we
                            owed the world our efforts, in fact it wasn't a way to
                            help others, it was nothing more than a shortside,
                            simple minded cowboy trying to be a badass, all
                            without any risk to his own well being mind you,, i
                            used to just giggle when i heard people suggest w
                            would be the worst president in history, there have
                            been some doozies, but i'm now convinced, the
                            disasterous iraq war, the neglect of our place in
                            international circles, the total miscalculation of how
                            to deal with north korea and iran, the grotesque
                            handout of wealth to the already insanely rich through
                            tax cuts, the pathetic neglect of environmental
                            issues,, i actually think this idiot may have leaped
                            right up to the top, takes a lot to out moron hoover
                            but he seems to have done it

                            steve s

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                          • Kinney777@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/8/2007 3:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time, weencock@yahoo.com writes: I m not always in agreement with his outright isolationist tendancies
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 21, 2007
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                              In a message dated 6/8/2007 3:25:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
                              weencock@... writes:

                              I'm not always in agreement with his outright
                              isolationist tendancies cause i feel we as this giant
                              rich behemouth do owe a bit of effort to help others,
                              in the case of iraq, that was far from an example we
                              owed the world our efforts, in fact it wasn't a way to
                              help others, it was nothing more than a shortside,
                              simple minded cowboy trying to be a badass, all
                              without any risk to his own well being mind you,, i
                              used to just giggle when i heard people suggest w
                              would be the worst president in history, there have
                              been some doozies, but i'm now convinced, the
                              disasterous iraq war, the neglect of our place in
                              international circles, the total miscalculation of how
                              to deal with north korea and iran, the grotesque
                              handout of wealth to the already insanely rich through
                              tax cuts, the pathetic neglect of environmental
                              issues,, i actually think this idiot may have leaped
                              right up to the top


                              Steve,
                              Howdy, amigo. I am back from Mexico and my health is better. I am playing a
                              few gigs next month in Austin with my new acoustic ensemble, The Cedar
                              Creekers, named after our small community. I wish I knew how to update my website
                              so I could post the new gigs. Oh well, in the final analysis (whatever that
                              is)! it really doesn't matter. I am still writing songs and singing 'em when
                              and where I can. My son, Abe, and I did a few private concerts on the beach in
                              San Juan de Alima Mexico...fun and fulfilling. He plays congas and some
                              guitar and sings with me sometimes. More importantly, he is learning my songs and
                              writing some of his own. Turns out, he has a damn good voice and a knack for
                              songwriting among his many other talents.
                              As for the political side of your message, I think we are in
                              agreement....more and more as we iron out the kinks in our discussions.
                              Here's my bumper sticker view on isolationism. First it is a term that is
                              both too general and too specific...but we both know that already. I think we
                              should drop back and punt. Stop acting like we have the magic plan for
                              everyone and trying to enforce our "enlightenment" on the world. First of all, we
                              have gone astray and don't really have it together in so many ways that to
                              assume that we do is a bad mistake and it keeps us from trying to really figure
                              our how a superpower should act. We should, I think, go back to the drawing
                              board, brainstorm our strengths and weaknesses, and get our shit together.
                              That is, learn to create and sustain prosperity in our modern setting in a way
                              that is respectful to all living beings and as fair as it can be as to the
                              distribution of wealth. The fruits of everyone who contributes should be
                              substantial and able to provide for a good life style. We have the technology to do
                              this, and where we lack the tech, we can develop it with what we do have. We
                              just need to be nicer. We need to think of others as we pursue our
                              individual dreams. Other people have dreams, too. Community working together as
                              individuals throw in their best efforts to attain societal peace and prosperity and
                              thus create an environment that informs, enhances, and rewards individual
                              effort. The individual and the community are not separate after all. We are one
                              being from this point of view, and we each assume individual aspects of
                              humanism to fulfill our individual destinies, the destinies of our eternal souls.
                              The more reverent we are for all life and the expression of compassion and
                              sharing is what we should concentrate on, not the desire for external power
                              and the instant gratification of our perceived needs. Of course, instant
                              gratification is okay as long as it doesn't spoil someone else's chances for
                              gratification or lesson our ability to sustain our own ability to move towards what
                              idealize as growth and fulfillment.
                              Give my best to your fine family.
                              George



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