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Re:Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems

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  • James
    One thing to consider: Some pitch to midi converters [mayby a lot/all?] send the first note-on guess and then immediately send a pitch bend correction if in
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 1, 2010
      One thing to consider: Some pitch to midi converters [mayby a lot/all?]
      send the first note-on guess and then immediately send a pitch bend
      correction if in thinking about it for a few more miliseconds it decides
      the first note was wrong. If the synth does not understand and utilize
      pitch bend similar to another synth then its response might be lacking
      these corrections [which may happen so fast you cannot hear them]. Just
      a guess; maybe I'm all wet...

      James
      .
      .

      >
      > Posted by: "sjrogersmai" sjrogersmai@...
      > <mailto:sjrogersmai@...?Subject=%20Re%3AGodin%20Multiac%20Nylon%20SA%20Roland%20GR30%20Tracking%20Problems>
      > sjrogersmai <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sjrogersmai>
      >
      >
      > Mon May 31, 2010 10:21 am (PDT)
      >
      >
      >
      > For the most part, I have not had any significant problems driving the
      > GR30 with my Godin Multiac Nylon SA. And, based upon the posts that I
      > have read, other Godins track well with the GR30. [I am also assuming
      > that "tracking" means the ability to identify the right pitch vs. the
      > speed at which the synthesizer responds.]
      >
      > However, I just tried to run an external synthesizer via MIDI and the
      > results were horrible. While playing any of the strings, there were
      > intermittent recognition errors resulting in tones in the external
      > synth that were typically one-half step below the note played on the
      > guitar.
      >
      > Since the GR30 plays the correct note, most of the time, and the MIDI
      > signal from the GR30 sends a correctly identified note, I am confused
      > as to why this is happening. And, again, it is intermittent. Some
      > notes are fine, most are not.
      >
      > Any help in identifying the source of this problem would be appreciated.
      >
      > BTW, it is more prevalent in MONO mode (each string sends on its own
      > MIDI channel vs. POLY mode. However, it does occur in POLY mode also.
    • sjrogersmai
      Thanks for the response. You were right on target. I decided to monitor the MIDI activity with MIDI-OX. It showed pitch bend events along with the note on and
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 1, 2010
        Thanks for the response. You were right on target.

        I decided to monitor the MIDI activity with MIDI-OX. It showed pitch bend events along with the note on and note off info. So, I set the (pitch) bend range to 0. Most of the errant notes disappeared and the notes on the external synth followed those on the guitar.

        However, no matter what I tried, I could not get rid of what I would describe as a grace note at the beginning of every chord. For instance, if I strummed an E chord, MIDIOX would report a quick E flat (note on - note off) before playing the low E tone in the chord. And, this grace note was prevalent mostly on the lower strings and tones. As I traveled up the neck or strummed chords without the lower strings, the flat grace note disappeared.

        I am going to re-read the section in the manual about Chromatic Function and Connecting to External Sound Generators and Sequencers. Maybe I can find a solution. One the main reasons that I got the GR-30 was to use it as a MIDI controller. My guitar skills are not great, but they are far better than my keyboard skills.



        --- In GR-30@yahoogroups.com, James <res075oh@...> wrote:
        >
        > One thing to consider: Some pitch to midi converters [mayby a lot/all?]
        > send the first note-on guess and then immediately send a pitch bend
        > correction if in thinking about it for a few more miliseconds it decides
        > the first note was wrong. If the synth does not understand and utilize
        > pitch bend similar to another synth then its response might be lacking
        > these corrections [which may happen so fast you cannot hear them]. Just
        > a guess; maybe I'm all wet...
        >
        > James
        > .
        > .
        >
        > >
        > > Posted by: "sjrogersmai" sjrogersmai@...
        > > <mailto:sjrogersmai@...?Subject=%20Re%3AGodin%20Multiac%20Nylon%20SA%20Roland%20GR30%20Tracking%20Problems>
        > > sjrogersmai <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sjrogersmai>
        > >
        > >
        > > Mon May 31, 2010 10:21 am (PDT)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > For the most part, I have not had any significant problems driving the
        > > GR30 with my Godin Multiac Nylon SA. And, based upon the posts that I
        > > have read, other Godins track well with the GR30. [I am also assuming
        > > that "tracking" means the ability to identify the right pitch vs. the
        > > speed at which the synthesizer responds.]
        > >
        > > However, I just tried to run an external synthesizer via MIDI and the
        > > results were horrible. While playing any of the strings, there were
        > > intermittent recognition errors resulting in tones in the external
        > > synth that were typically one-half step below the note played on the
        > > guitar.
        > >
        > > Since the GR30 plays the correct note, most of the time, and the MIDI
        > > signal from the GR30 sends a correctly identified note, I am confused
        > > as to why this is happening. And, again, it is intermittent. Some
        > > notes are fine, most are not.
        > >
        > > Any help in identifying the source of this problem would be appreciated.
        > >
        > > BTW, it is more prevalent in MONO mode (each string sends on its own
        > > MIDI channel vs. POLY mode. However, it does occur in POLY mode also.
        >
      • Robert Lindauer
        For tracking problems - it seems like making sure that the guitar is in perfect tune always helps remove grace notes and tracking issues. Have you given this a
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 2, 2010
          For tracking problems - it seems like making sure that the guitar is in
          perfect tune
          always helps remove grace notes and tracking issues.

          Have you given this a try?

          --
          Robert Lindauer
        • Luckisup
          I play exactly the same system, the gr 30 and the godin multiac Nylon. I am happy so far. To get the best of it I do  1. perfect tune the guitar2. inside the
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 2, 2010
            I play exactly the same system, the gr 30 and the godin multiac Nylon. I am happy so far.
            To get the best of it I do 
            1. perfect tune the guitar2. inside the gr30 set bend range to zero3. heavy control the gr cable if it is really plugged perfect4. set pickup sensivity correctly in the GR305. use high tension flamenco strings only6. play cleanly and strong each tone on the guitar
            Sometimes I wish the tracking would be faster. Specially bass sounds are sooo slow. But I arranged myself with that and adapted my way to play.
            Cheers, Mr. Thomas

            --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Robert Lindauer <Rlindauer@...> wrote:

            From: Robert Lindauer <Rlindauer@...>
            Subject: [GR-30] Re:Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems
            To: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 12:52 PM
















             









            For tracking problems - it seems like making sure that the guitar is in

            perfect tune

            always helps remove grace notes and tracking issues.



            Have you given this a try?



            --

            Robert Lindauer






























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Felipe Boca
            Hello, I use this set GR30 and Godin and had only increased attention on the issue of regulation of sensitivity to GR30. But these other tips are very useful!
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 2, 2010
              Hello,

              I use this set
              GR30 and Godin and had only increased attention on the issue of
              regulation of sensitivity to GR30.

              But these other tips are very useful!

              Sorry for my
              English, I am Brazilian and I'm here reading and writing by Google
              Translator rsrsrs

              Thanks!



              felipe


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              ________________________________
              De: Luckisup <luckisup@...>
              Para: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
              Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 2 de Junho de 2010 16:15:57
              Assunto: Re: [GR-30] Re:Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems


              I play exactly the same system, the gr 30 and the godin multiac Nylon. I am happy so far.
              To get the best of it I do
              1. perfect tune the guitar2. inside the gr30 set bend range to zero3. heavy control the gr cable if it is really plugged perfect4. set pickup sensivity correctly in the GR305. use high tension flamenco strings only6. play cleanly and strong each tone on the guitar
              Sometimes I wish the tracking would be faster. Specially bass sounds are sooo slow. But I arranged myself with that and adapted my way to play.
              Cheers, Mr. Thomas

              --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Robert Lindauer <Rlindauer@...> wrote:

              From: Robert Lindauer <Rlindauer@...>
              Subject: [GR-30] Re:Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems
              To: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 12:52 PM



              For tracking problems - it seems like making sure that the guitar is in

              perfect tune

              always helps remove grace notes and tracking issues.

              Have you given this a try?

              --

              Robert Lindauer

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • sjrogersmai
              Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I have tried all recommendations, except new strings. That may be next. I have eliminated most of the problem but I am
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 3, 2010
                Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I have tried all recommendations, except new strings. That may be next. I have eliminated most of the problem but I am still getting some errant notes ... not a lot ... but enough to be an annoyance.

                On some patches, it is not very noticeable. On other patches, like those with percussive attacks, it is evident. And, when recording, it will be a pain to go through the MIDI notes and make adjustments. But, I love the Godin and the way it plays and I have inadequate skills at a keyboard.

                If I solve it, I will add my finds to this thread.


                --- In GR-30@yahoogroups.com, "sjrogersmai" <sjrogersmai@...> wrote:
                >
                > For the most part, I have not had any significant problems driving the GR30 with my Godin Multiac Nylon SA. And, based upon the posts that I have read, other Godins track well with the GR30. [I am also assuming that "tracking" means the ability to identify the right pitch vs. the speed at which the synthesizer responds.]
                >
                > However, I just tried to run an external synthesizer via MIDI and the results were horrible. While playing any of the strings, there were intermittent recognition errors resulting in tones in the external synth that were typically one-half step below the note played on the guitar.
                >
                > Since the GR30 plays the correct note, most of the time, and the MIDI signal from the GR30 sends a correctly identified note, I am confused as to why this is happening. And, again, it is intermittent. Some notes are fine, most are not.
                >
                > Any help in identifying the source of this problem would be appreciated.
                >
                > BTW, it is more prevalent in MONO mode (each string sends on its own MIDI channel vs. POLY mode. However, it does occur in POLY mode also.
                >
              • Darvin Willhoite
                I use a Godin Multiac Nylon SA with a GR-33 and have no tracking problems with it. The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn t sustain as
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 4, 2010
                  I use a Godin Multiac Nylon SA with a GR-33 and have no tracking problems with it. The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn't sustain as long as a steel string. This is really noticeable on higher notes, such as a solo violin part. I have been playing solo parts and the sound just dies. I try to pick the strings when I normally would not to hold the notes longer. I use a pick with the nylon string also to give it a little more vibration which helps the sustain. I would never use a pick on nylon strings when playing without the synth.

                  Darvin




                  ________________________________
                  From: sjrogersmai <sjrogersmai@...>
                  To: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 10:01:59 PM
                  Subject: [GR-30] Re: Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems


                  Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I have tried all recommendations, except new strings. That may be next. I have eliminated most of the problem but I am still getting some errant notes ... not a lot ... but enough to be an annoyance.

                  On some patches, it is not very noticeable. On other patches, like those with percussive attacks, it is evident. And, when recording, it will be a pain to go through the MIDI notes and make adjustments. But, I love the Godin and the way it plays and I have inadequate skills at a keyboard.

                  If I solve it, I will add my finds to this thread.

                  --- In GR-30@yahoogroups.com, "sjrogersmai" <sjrogersmai@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > For the most part, I have not had any significant problems driving the GR30 with my Godin Multiac Nylon SA. And, based upon the posts that I have read, other Godins track well with the GR30. [I am also assuming that "tracking" means the ability to identify the right pitch vs. the speed at which the synthesizer responds.]
                  >
                  > However, I just tried to run an external synthesizer via MIDI and the results were horrible. While playing any of the strings, there were intermittent recognition errors resulting in tones in the external synth that were typically one-half step below the note played on the guitar.
                  >
                  > Since the GR30 plays the correct note, most of the time, and the MIDI signal from the GR30 sends a correctly identified note, I am confused as to why this is happening. And, again, it is intermittent. Some notes are fine, most are not.
                  >
                  > Any help in identifying the source of this problem would be appreciated.
                  >
                  > BTW, it is more prevalent in MONO mode (each string sends on its own MIDI channel vs. POLY mode. However, it does occur in POLY mode also.
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ken
                  Hi Darvin, The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn t sustain as long as a steel string. Have you tried adjusting the Decay setting?
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 4, 2010
                    Hi Darvin,



                    "The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn't sustain
                    as long as a steel string."



                    Have you tried adjusting the Decay setting?



                    Ken





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Darvin Willhoite
                    Ken, I think the decay setting is patch specific, and not guitar specific. I think I tried this a couple of years ago, but I used the nylon string very little
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 4, 2010
                      Ken,

                      I think the decay setting is patch specific, and not guitar specific. I think I tried this a couple of years ago, but I used the nylon string very little back then, I'll experiment with it some more now that I'm using the nylon string more often. I normally use a Brian Moore steel string guitar, and I have no problem with sustain when I use it. Thanks for the suggestion.

                      Darvin




                      ________________________________
                      From: Ken <ken@...>
                      To: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 11:55:03 AM
                      Subject: RE: [GR-30] Re: Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems


                      Hi Darvin,

                      "The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn't sustain
                      as long as a steel string."

                      Have you tried adjusting the Decay setting?

                      Ken

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sjrogersmai
                      [[The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn t sustain as long as a steel string ...]] I have noticed the same thing. [[I think the decay
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 4, 2010
                        [[The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn't sustain as long as a steel string ...]]

                        I have noticed the same thing.

                        [[I think the decay setting is patch specific]]

                        Does the "decay" setting prolong the synth sound after a string is muted?

                        --- In GR-30@yahoogroups.com, Darvin Willhoite <dbl10@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Ken,
                        >
                        > I think the decay setting is patch specific, and not guitar specific. I think I tried this a couple of years ago, but I used the nylon string very little back then, I'll experiment with it some more now that I'm using the nylon string more often. I normally use a Brian Moore steel string guitar, and I have no problem with sustain when I use it. Thanks for the suggestion.
                        >
                        > Darvin
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Ken <ken@...>
                        > To: GR-30@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 11:55:03 AM
                        > Subject: RE: [GR-30] Re: Godin Multiac Nylon SA Roland GR30 Tracking Problems
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Darvin,
                        >
                        > "The only negative I can mention is the sustain, the nylon doesn't sustain
                        > as long as a steel string."
                        >
                        > Have you tried adjusting the Decay setting?
                        >
                        > Ken
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Luckisup
                        Yes, the sustain is short. But also the overtones sound very muffled and not rich sounding. I guess Godi8n made the construction like this to get a more clean
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 5, 2010
                          Yes, the sustain is short. But also the overtones sound very muffled and not rich sounding. I guess Godi8n made the construction like this to get a more clean tone for midi translation. The more overtones the guitar produces, the more dificult is the midi conversion. This is just a guess and I miss true resonance and rich overtones very much for the normal guitar tone.

                          To get more resoance I use the Fishman Aural pedal. Patch 7 makes great sense with the sound I look but for. But it's still not that. I found the pure Godin Nylon simply sounds dead which is why I call it rubber guitar. Anyhow I need it fopr my work and I don't know any better (more organic sounding midi guita).

                          Another thing: I think about putting metal steel strings on the nylon Godin. The construction of the neck seems to be strong enough for this experiment. Did anybody try that already?


                          Cheers
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