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Arbornet folks,, A Question,

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  • Joe
    In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor. I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless. BUT, can you give me the altitudes
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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      In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

       I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

      BUT,

      can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

      As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

      135 Min into the flight.

      165 min into the flight,

      and 195 min into the flight.

      any others would be cool too.

      But what altitudes for at least those three.

      Thanks A Lot.

      Joe WB9SBD
      --
      Sig
      The Original Rolling Ball Clock
      Idle Tyme
      Idle-Tyme.com
      http://www.idle-tyme.com
    • BASE
      Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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        Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

        Howard

        --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

        From: Joe <nss@...>
        Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
        To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

        In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

         I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

        BUT,

        can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

        As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

        135 Min into the flight.

        165 min into the flight,

        and 195 min into the flight.

        any others would be cool too.

        But what altitudes for at least those three.

        Thanks A Lot.

        Joe WB9SBD
        --

        The Original Rolling Ball Clock
        Idle Tyme
        Idle-Tyme.com
        http://www.idle-tyme.com

      • Joe
        Yeah, That is actually more accurate description. I was just using the verbiage that was in the presentation. If i remember it correctly. But even that could
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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          Yeah,

          That is actually more accurate description.  I was just using the verbiage that was in the presentation.  If i remember it correctly. But even that could be wrong.

          Joe WB9SBD
          Sig
          The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          Idle Tyme
          Idle-Tyme.com
          http://www.idle-tyme.com

          On 9/1/2010 10:25 AM, BASE wrote:
          Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

          Howard

          --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

          From: Joe <nss@...>
          Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
          To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

          In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

           I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

          BUT,

          can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

          As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

          135 Min into the flight.

          165 min into the flight,

          and 195 min into the flight.

          any others would be cool too.

          But what altitudes for at least those three.

          Thanks A Lot.

          Joe WB9SBD
          --

          The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          Idle Tyme
          Idle-Tyme.com
          http://www.idle-tyme.com

        • Michael Willett
          You are right Howard, the numbers demonstrate the relative pressure throughout the flight. The sensor itself is pretty linear, we stayed within or near the
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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            You are right Howard, the numbers demonstrate the relative pressure throughout the flight. The sensor itself is pretty linear, we stayed within or near the temp specs of the unit, and I won't say the unit is perfect, but I think the contribution of the offsets due to temperature would not be super significant.

            Joe, the data in the presentation is all I have. Our GPS was not behaving well, so the altitudes past 29,000 feet were not reported. The altitude values received are shown in a graph within the presentation.

            I am not sure I used the word "meaningless", but rather "not calibrated". I would hope I would not waste everyone's time presenting "Meaningless" data. If I did do that, I would be either a lawyer or very successful in politics! :)

            --Michael
            K5NOT



            On 9/1/2010 10:25 AM, BASE wrote:
            Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

            Howard

            --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

            From: Joe <nss@...>
            Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
            To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

            In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

             I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

            BUT,

            can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

            As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

            135 Min into the flight.

            165 min into the flight,

            and 195 min into the flight.

            any others would be cool too.

            But what altitudes for at least those three.

            Thanks A Lot.

            Joe WB9SBD
            --

            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com


          • Joe
            Afternoon Michael, If it was taken as a misunderstanding I apologize. Maybe it was someone in the chat room that made the comment about meaningless. And it
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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              Afternoon Michael,

              If it was taken as a misunderstanding I apologize.  Maybe it was someone in the chat room that made the comment about meaningless.  And it stuck.  Again Sorry.

              So  looking through the presentation again,  I'm guessing a time of burst being about 195 minutes into the flight correct?

              And an Bill ELK  max altitude estimation of 110,000 feet.

              if thats the case then I get an average of about 560 feet a minute rate of climb correct?

              Yes? No?

              Joe WB9SBD
              Sig
              The Original Rolling Ball Clock
              Idle Tyme
              Idle-Tyme.com
              http://www.idle-tyme.com

              On 9/1/2010 10:45 AM, Michael Willett wrote:

              You are right Howard, the numbers demonstrate the relative pressure throughout the flight. The sensor itself is pretty linear, we stayed within or near the temp specs of the unit, and I won't say the unit is perfect, but I think the contribution of the offsets due to temperature would not be super significant.

              Joe, the data in the presentation is all I have. Our GPS was not behaving well, so the altitudes past 29,000 feet were not reported. The altitude values received are shown in a graph within the presentation.

              I am not sure I used the word "meaningless", but rather "not calibrated". I would hope I would not waste everyone's time presenting "Meaningless" data. If I did do that, I would be either a lawyer or very successful in politics! :)

              --Michael
              K5NOT



              On 9/1/2010 10:25 AM, BASE wrote:
              Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

              Howard

              --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

              From: Joe <nss@...>
              Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
              To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

              In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

               I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

              BUT,

              can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

              As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

              135 Min into the flight.

              165 min into the flight,

              and 195 min into the flight.

              any others would be cool too.

              But what altitudes for at least those three.

              Thanks A Lot.

              Joe WB9SBD
              --

              The Original Rolling Ball Clock
              Idle Tyme
              Idle-Tyme.com
              http://www.idle-tyme.com


            • Michael Willett
              No, no offense taken, no harm done. Joe I may have well said meaningless - referring to the scale shown on the left side of the graph, and instead meaning
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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                No, no offense taken, no harm done. Joe I may have well said meaningless - referring to the scale shown on the left side of the graph, and instead meaning "relative or not calibrated".  I said a few things in my presentation that made me desire a rewind button on my forehead, but that button did not seem to work when needed. :)

                The balloon was inflated for a standard ascent rate, something like 1.6 X weight, but the parachute was deployed as a drag chute unintentionally and we ended up with a slow initial descent rate. However, the ascent rate greatly increased as the parachute was less effective at altitude and realized more of the slip stream as the balloon diameter increased. If you watch the video you will see the parachute hanging limp near burst, yet we now would be climbing faster than all of the previous part of the flight!

                Yes, that was the estimate that Bill gave me over the phone, but it was an -estimate- feel free to add +20% to 30% :)

                The climb would have an exponential curve due to the trailing parachute, so it was not a typical linear ascent in our case.

                We will be flying calibrated tests here shortly, we are still debugging the hardware, but have made huge progress.

                --Michael
                K5NOT


                On 9/1/2010 11:03 AM, Joe wrote:
                Afternoon Michael,

                If it was taken as a misunderstanding I apologize.  Maybe it was someone in the chat room that made the comment about meaningless.  And it stuck.  Again Sorry.

                So  looking through the presentation again,  I'm guessing a time of burst being about 195 minutes into the flight correct?

                And an Bill ELK  max altitude estimation of 110,000 feet.

                if thats the case then I get an average of about 560 feet a minute rate of climb correct?

                Yes? No?

                Joe WB9SBD
                Sig
                The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                Idle Tyme
                Idle-Tyme.com
                http://www.idle-tyme.com

                On 9/1/2010 10:45 AM, Michael Willett wrote:

                You are right Howard, the numbers demonstrate the relative pressure throughout the flight. The sensor itself is pretty linear, we stayed within or near the temp specs of the unit, and I won't say the unit is perfect, but I think the contribution of the offsets due to temperature would not be super significant.

                Joe, the data in the presentation is all I have. Our GPS was not behaving well, so the altitudes past 29,000 feet were not reported. The altitude values received are shown in a graph within the presentation.

                I am not sure I used the word "meaningless", but rather "not calibrated". I would hope I would not waste everyone's time presenting "Meaningless" data. If I did do that, I would be either a lawyer or very successful in politics! :)

                --Michael
                K5NOT



                On 9/1/2010 10:25 AM, BASE wrote:
                Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

                Howard

                --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

                From: Joe <nss@...>
                Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
                To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

                In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

                 I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

                BUT,

                can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

                As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

                135 Min into the flight.

                165 min into the flight,

                and 195 min into the flight.

                any others would be cool too.

                But what altitudes for at least those three.

                Thanks A Lot.

                Joe WB9SBD
                --

                The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                Idle Tyme
                Idle-Tyme.com
                http://www.idle-tyme.com



              • Joe
                Afternoon Michael. Care to guess the curve? Say from SL to 30K rate? 30 to 60 rate? 60 to 90 rate, and 90+ rate. Try your best guesstimate? Joe The Original
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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                  Afternoon Michael.

                  Care to guess the curve?

                  Say from SL to 30K rate? 
                  30 to 60 rate?
                  60 to 90 rate,
                  and 90+ rate.

                  Try your best guesstimate?

                  Joe
                  Sig
                  The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  Idle Tyme
                  Idle-Tyme.com
                  http://www.idle-tyme.com

                  On 9/1/2010 12:00 PM, Michael Willett wrote:

                  No, no offense taken, no harm done. Joe I may have well said meaningless - referring to the scale shown on the left side of the graph, and instead meaning "relative or not calibrated".  I said a few things in my presentation that made me desire a rewind button on my forehead, but that button did not seem to work when needed. :)

                  The balloon was inflated for a standard ascent rate, something like 1.6 X weight, but the parachute was deployed as a drag chute unintentionally and we ended up with a slow initial descent rate. However, the ascent rate greatly increased as the parachute was less effective at altitude and realized more of the slip stream as the balloon diameter increased. If you watch the video you will see the parachute hanging limp near burst, yet we now would be climbing faster than all of the previous part of the flight!

                  Yes, that was the estimate that Bill gave me over the phone, but it was an -estimate- feel free to add +20% to 30% :)

                  The climb would have an exponential curve due to the trailing parachute, so it was not a typical linear ascent in our case.

                  We will be flying calibrated tests here shortly, we are still debugging the hardware, but have made huge progress.

                  --Michael
                  K5NOT


                  On 9/1/2010 11:03 AM, Joe wrote:
                  Afternoon Michael,

                  If it was taken as a misunderstanding I apologize.  Maybe it was someone in the chat room that made the comment about meaningless.  And it stuck.  Again Sorry.

                  So  looking through the presentation again,  I'm guessing a time of burst being about 195 minutes into the flight correct?

                  And an Bill ELK  max altitude estimation of 110,000 feet.

                  if thats the case then I get an average of about 560 feet a minute rate of climb correct?

                  Yes? No?

                  Joe WB9SBD
                  Sig
                  The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  Idle Tyme
                  Idle-Tyme.com
                  http://www.idle-tyme.com

                  On 9/1/2010 10:45 AM, Michael Willett wrote:

                  You are right Howard, the numbers demonstrate the relative pressure throughout the flight. The sensor itself is pretty linear, we stayed within or near the temp specs of the unit, and I won't say the unit is perfect, but I think the contribution of the offsets due to temperature would not be super significant.

                  Joe, the data in the presentation is all I have. Our GPS was not behaving well, so the altitudes past 29,000 feet were not reported. The altitude values received are shown in a graph within the presentation.

                  I am not sure I used the word "meaningless", but rather "not calibrated". I would hope I would not waste everyone's time presenting "Meaningless" data. If I did do that, I would be either a lawyer or very successful in politics! :)

                  --Michael
                  K5NOT



                  On 9/1/2010 10:25 AM, BASE wrote:
                  Just a clarifying point.  The numbers in the ARBONET data are/were not meaningless.  The scale is simply arbitrary and therefore the numbers lack units (pascals or p.s.i or ...).  The numbers hopefully have relative meaning, especially if the sensor response curve is well known.

                  Howard

                  --- On Wed, 9/1/10, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

                  From: Joe <nss@...>
                  Subject: [GPSL] Arbornet folks,, A Question,
                  To: "gpsl" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 11:13 AM

                  In the GPSL presentation where you flew the differential pressure sensor.

                   I Know the numbers on the chart are meaningless.

                  BUT,

                  can you give me the altitudes that the payload was at at various times during the flight?

                  As many as possible would be best. But at least what altitude it was at for at least these three levels.

                  135 Min into the flight.

                  165 min into the flight,

                  and 195 min into the flight.

                  any others would be cool too.

                  But what altitudes for at least those three.

                  Thanks A Lot.

                  Joe WB9SBD
                  --

                  TheOriginal Rolling Ball Clock
                  IdleTyme
                  Idle-Tyme.com
                  http://www.idle-tyme.com



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