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Re: [GPSL] 5 Years from Now

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  • Keith Kaiser
    NSV flew ashes inside the balloon, hence distributed ashes of my dad this way a couple of years ago. Deb and I expect the same when our time comes.
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
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      NSV flew ashes inside the balloon, hence distributed ashes of my dad this way a couple of years ago. Deb and I expect the same when our time comes.


      On Jul 31, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Zack Clobes wrote:

       

      Regarding the scattering of ashes, I believe the EPA has some issues with that.  There are various pilots/aircraft that are setup to do such a thing.  Several years ago I stumbled across a website (don't remember what I was actually looking for...) that was talking about it, but they kept referring to it as "theoretical" since in many circumstances it would be illegal to do so.

      If you did sea-side scattering, you probably wouldn't have as many issues with polluting, but then you'd somehow have to get the video back to the family.


      Nevertheless, if I wind up cremated, I expect someone on this forum to sneak at least part of me into near space... ;-)

      Zack Clobes, W0ZC
      Project: Traveler
      www.projecttraveler .org



      On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@gmail. com> wrote:
       

      Hi Paul,

      Heck, we ALL talk about near space - after all, we did that all Friday a
      couple of weeks ago! So is this part of your degree program or what?

      Note that Space Data Corp has turned a decent profit from it's medium-term
      vented latex floaters carrying proprietary cell sites. Space Data started
      out considering station-keeping long-duration balloons, but soon discovered
      that balloon volume, weight and cost soars exponentially with weight, thus
      driving them towards small latex bags like we're used to flying. The fact
      that they keep the sky full of their balloons over the area of interest, an
      have them networked, pretty well deals with the random flight trajectory
      issue.

      DoD is becoming quite interested in using near space and lower balloons
      for remote sensing, communications and tactical purposes; maybe we in ARHAB
      might have inspired 'em? Of course, NASA's Columbia SBF has been launching
      "Buicks with 4 scientists" into near space for decades - but those flights
      ain't cheap.

      EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
      some of the results have been quite revealing. And astronomers have become
      interested in flying sub-orbital telescopes - almost as good birds like
      Hubble, but a LOT cheaper to fly, and you can get 'em back to fly again
      another day. A good example was the microwave background survey experiment
      that flew under a ZPB from Sweden to Canada a few years ago.

      You mentioned ZPB's as the way to achieve long-duration flights. However,
      the Space Data technique seems to work just dandy. With newer polymer
      films coming out, super-pressure balloons may be the next wave of floaters.
      SPBs don't "burn" ballast to stay afloat, and the envelopes can be made
      quite UV-resistant. NASA has been working with AeroStar to develop SPBs of
      the size they're accustomed to flying, but the stresses required to hold
      gas pressure with 2000 kg neck loads are formidable. So I foresee some
      ARHAB group taking the initiative to make and fly a small SPB by 2015.
      Hmmm ... just WHO will it be?

      And for sure, we can expect to see more for-profit organizations such as
      Space Data trotting out new sub-orbital services, using commercial and/or
      Part 15 RF links.

      Forecasting the future is risky business - it's always easier to forecast
      in retrospect :=).

      73 de Mike W5VSI



      On 7/31/2010 20:13, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
      >
      >
      > I've been asked to speak about the future of near space. First is up to 2015.
      > I want to say that what we do was started in 1987. At the time, education was
      > not a big part of it, it was mostly hams trying out ham equipment at high
      > altitude. Gradually education got involved and is now one of the biggest

      > growth areas. Colleges and high schools use near space to motivate students
      > and encourage them to work on technical degrees. Some colleges have used near
      > space to teach the principles of spaceflight. If the cost of spaceflight
      > continues to decrease, then we could see more use of near space at
      > universities. Hams provide most of the lift services, but there are cases of
      > non-ham radios being used. Commercial and ISM radios could equal the number
      > of ham radios used in near space by 2015. Perhaps in five years, commercial

      > entities will provide launch services for schools. They have the benefit of
      > being able to launch on weekdays, when most hams are working.
      > Hams were the first to experiment with repeaters in near space. While it's
      > not a big money maker yet, using balloon repeaters is used commerically along
      > the gulf coast. It may never grow very large, but it could be useful in
      > emergency situations like fighting fires in mountainous terrain where repeater
      > coverage is poor. Could a commercial outfit find this a profitable enterprise?

      > Because winds are too variable and not repeatable, I don't believe balloon
      > borne platforms will be very practical for mapping or resource detection. The
      > fact that balloons climb in altitude also hinders this because of the changing
      > scale size ad level of details. ZPB can address some of these issues, but are
      > still limited because they can't fly repeatable path. Perhaps for one time
      > coverage, balloons will work well.
      > I foresee balloons still being used for atmospheric profiles. Satellites will
      > be get better sensors for measuring the atmosphere. However, that also means
      > balloons will get better sensors, also. A satellite can cover a larger area,
      > but sacrifices the small details that balloons can measure. As long as the
      > gases are mixed uniformly, balloons can measure them anywhere.
      > I don't see industrial processes being carried out in near space. But what
      > about Internet servers in near space? Perhaps lots of people would be willing
      > to check in to the environmental conditions and images on a near space
      > website. The equipment would be paid for by advertisers on the website.
      > Bigelow Aerospace has launched mementos into space that people paid to have

      > launched. They can see them floating around on the space station's website.
      > JP Aerospace has photographed business cards in near space. Is carrying
      > personal stuff into near space a profitable venture when you consider the
      > expense of recovery?
      > Burial services? An ounce of cremains could be placed inside a balloon and

      > then launched. A digital camera pointed up will show the balloon bursting in
      > near space and spreading the ashes. Or the ashes could be carried up in a

      > container that is dumped in near space. Again, having a video recorder to
      > record the event would be important.
      > Anyhow, these are things I'm thinking about. If you have any ideas
      > or resources, please let me know.
      >
      > --
      > Onwards and Upwards,
      > Paul
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Mike Manes mrmanes@gmail. com Tel: 303-979-4899
      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
      A. Einstein



    • Joe
      We thought of this probably 15 years ago, And even contacted ohhh say 50 Funeral services around us here about developing such a service,and not one was
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        We thought of this probably 15 years ago,  And even contacted ohhh say 50 Funeral services around us here about developing such a service,and not one was interested.

        I thought about it again a few years ago, and did some more searching on it.  as far as rules and regulations, and there really isn't any.

        The only restrictions I found are two.  One is similar to our catch all Far rule about not making a hazard to thos below.  Like if you were to spread at a low altitude over a large group of people.

        As far as the Feds go the only rule they had was that if you were to spread over federal lands Like National parks etc.  you need to get a permit for it.

        But also in doing this ressearch I did find one guy that is doing it already commercially.

        But at a HUGE cost.

        He only sends a few ounces of ashes aloft, and charges several thousand dollars for the service!

        Plus he doen't have a clue as to how the balloons work,  i love this quote,

        So what happens to the balloon?
               
        After its release, the balloon travels to an altitude of approximately five miles. At that height the temperature is 40 degrees below zero. The balloon simple crystalizes and fractures, scattering the ashes to the four winds.






        Here is his web page,
        http://eternalascent.com/index.html


        Take Care Everyone!

        Joe WB9SBD
        Sig
        The Original Rolling Ball Clock
        Idle Tyme
        Idle-Tyme.com
        http://www.idle-tyme.com

        On 8/1/2010 4:46 AM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
        NSV flew ashes inside the balloon, hence distributed ashes of my dad this way a couple of years ago. Deb and I expect the same when our time comes.


        On Jul 31, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Zack Clobes wrote:

         

        Regarding the scattering of ashes, I believe the EPA has some issues with that.  There are various pilots/aircraft that are setup to do such a thing.  Several years ago I stumbled across a website (don't remember what I was actually looking for...) that was talking about it, but they kept referring to it as "theoretical" since in many circumstances it would be illegal to do so.

        If you did sea-side scattering, you probably wouldn't have as many issues with polluting, but then you'd somehow have to get the video back to the family.


        Nevertheless, if I wind up cremated, I expect someone on this forum to sneak at least part of me into near space... ;-)

        Zack Clobes, W0ZC
        Project: Traveler
        www.projecttraveler .org



        On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@gmail. com> wrote:
         

        Hi Paul,

        Heck, we ALL talk about near space - after all, we did that all Friday a
        couple of weeks ago! So is this part of your degree program or what?

        Note that Space Data Corp has turned a decent profit from it's medium-term
        vented latex floaters carrying proprietary cell sites. Space Data started
        out considering station-keeping long-duration balloons, but soon discovered
        that balloon volume, weight and cost soars exponentially with weight, thus
        driving them towards small latex bags like we're used to flying. The fact
        that they keep the sky full of their balloons over the area of interest, an
        have them networked, pretty well deals with the random flight trajectory
        issue.

        DoD is becoming quite interested in using near space and lower balloons
        for remote sensing, communications and tactical purposes; maybe we in ARHAB
        might have inspired 'em? Of course, NASA's Columbia SBF has been launching
        "Buicks with 4 scientists" into near space for decades - but those flights
        ain't cheap.

        EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
        some of the results have been quite revealing. And astronomers have become
        interested in flying sub-orbital telescopes - almost as good birds like
        Hubble, but a LOT cheaper to fly, and you can get 'em back to fly again
        another day. A good example was the microwave background survey experiment
        that flew under a ZPB from Sweden to Canada a few years ago.

        You mentioned ZPB's as the way to achieve long-duration flights. However,
        the Space Data technique seems to work just dandy. With newer polymer
        films coming out, super-pressure balloons may be the next wave of floaters.
        SPBs don't "burn" ballast to stay afloat, and the envelopes can be made
        quite UV-resistant. NASA has been working with AeroStar to develop SPBs of
        the size they're accustomed to flying, but the stresses required to hold
        gas pressure with 2000 kg neck loads are formidable. So I foresee some
        ARHAB group taking the initiative to make and fly a small SPB by 2015.
        Hmmm ... just WHO will it be?

        And for sure, we can expect to see more for-profit organizations such as
        Space Data trotting out new sub-orbital services, using commercial and/or
        Part 15 RF links.

        Forecasting the future is risky business - it's always easier to forecast
        in retrospect :=).

        73 de Mike W5VSI



        On 7/31/2010 20:13, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
        >
        >
        > I've been asked to speak about the future of near space. First is up to 2015.
        > I want to say that what we do was started in 1987. At the time, education was
        > not a big part of it, it was mostly hams trying out ham equipment at high
        > altitude. Gradually education got involved and is now one of the biggest

        > growth areas. Colleges and high schools use near space to motivate students
        > and encourage them to work on technical degrees. Some colleges have used near
        > space to teach the principles of spaceflight. If the cost of spaceflight
        > continues to decrease, then we could see more use of near space at
        > universities. Hams provide most of the lift services, but there are cases of
        > non-ham radios being used. Commercial and ISM radios could equal the number
        > of ham radios used in near space by 2015. Perhaps in five years, commercial

        > entities will provide launch services for schools. They have the benefit of
        > being able to launch on weekdays, when most hams are working.
        > Hams were the first to experiment with repeaters in near space. While it's
        > not a big money maker yet, using balloon repeaters is used commerically along
        > the gulf coast. It may never grow very large, but it could be useful in
        > emergency situations like fighting fires in mountainous terrain where repeater
        > coverage is poor. Could a commercial outfit find this a profitable enterprise?

        > Because winds are too variable and not repeatable, I don't believe balloon
        > borne platforms will be very practical for mapping or resource detection. The
        > fact that balloons climb in altitude also hinders this because of the changing
        > scale size ad level of details. ZPB can address some of these issues, but are
        > still limited because they can't fly repeatable path. Perhaps for one time
        > coverage, balloons will work well.
        > I foresee balloons still being used for atmospheric profiles. Satellites will
        > be get better sensors for measuring the atmosphere. However, that also means
        > balloons will get better sensors, also. A satellite can cover a larger area,
        > but sacrifices the small details that balloons can measure. As long as the
        > gases are mixed uniformly, balloons can measure them anywhere.
        > I don't see industrial processes being carried out in near space. But what
        > about Internet servers in near space? Perhaps lots of people would be willing
        > to check in to the environmental conditions and images on a near space
        > website. The equipment would be paid for by advertisers on the website.
        > Bigelow Aerospace has launched mementos into space that people paid to have

        > launched. They can see them floating around on the space station's website.
        > JP Aerospace has photographed business cards in near space. Is carrying
        > personal stuff into near space a profitable venture when you consider the
        > expense of recovery?
        > Burial services? An ounce of cremains could be placed inside a balloon and

        > then launched. A digital camera pointed up will show the balloon bursting in
        > near space and spreading the ashes. Or the ashes could be carried up in a

        > container that is dumped in near space. Again, having a video recorder to
        > record the event would be important.
        > Anyhow, these are things I'm thinking about. If you have any ideas
        > or resources, please let me know.
        >
        > --
        > Onwards and Upwards,
        > Paul
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Mike Manes mrmanes@gmail. com Tel: 303-979-4899
        "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
        A. Einstein



      • L. Paul Verhage
        They have patented this process!!! They claimm to only send ashes to 30,000 feet. measley. Okay, what I am going to post is a process of dumping ashes
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          They have patented this process!!!
           
          They claimm to only send ashes to 30,000 feet.  measley.
           
          Okay, what I am going to post is a process of dumping ashes overboard from 100,000 feet.  It will be made public and cannot be patented.
           
          Okay, it's the process.  Cups holding the ashes are mounted to a servo.  While the cup is in the upright position, it is covered by a lid.  When tipped to a 90 degree angle, the lid comes off and the ashes spill out.  The mechanism must be carried on  3000 gram balloon and video taped with a digital camera.
           
          I will write a sidebar for Nuts and Volts and post it to my Twitter account and blog.
           
          Anyhow, anyone is free to use it.  I'll make up diagrams and post them shortly.
           
          Paul 

          On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
          We thought of this probably 15 years ago,  And even contacted ohhh say 50 Funeral services around us here about developing such a service,and not one was interested.

          I thought about it again a few years ago, and did some more searching on it.  as far as rules and regulations, and there really isn't any.

          The only restrictions I found are two.  One is similar to our catch all Far rule about not making a hazard to thos below.  Like if you were to spread at a low altitude over a large group of people.

          As far as the Feds go the only rule they had was that if you were to spread over federal lands Like National parks etc.  you need to get a permit for it.

          But also in doing this ressearch I did find one guy that is doing it already commercially.

          But at a HUGE cost.

          He only sends a few ounces of ashes aloft, and charges several thousand dollars for the service!

          Plus he doen't have a clue as to how the balloons work,  i love this quote,

          So what happens to the balloon?
                 
          After its release, the balloon travels to an altitude of approximately five miles. At that height the temperature is 40 degrees below zero. The balloon simple crystalizes and fractures, scattering the ashes to the four winds.






          Here is his web page,
          http://eternalascent.com/index.html


          Take Care Everyone!

          Joe WB9SBD

          The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          Idle Tyme
          Idle-Tyme.com
          http://www.idle-tyme.com

          On 8/1/2010 4:46 AM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
          NSV flew ashes inside the balloon, hence distributed ashes of my dad this way a couple of years ago. Deb and I expect the same when our time comes.


          On Jul 31, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Zack Clobes wrote:

           

          Regarding the scattering of ashes, I believe the EPA has some issues with that.  There are various pilots/aircraft that are setup to do such a thing.  Several years ago I stumbled across a website (don't remember what I was actually looking for...) that was talking about it, but they kept referring to it as "theoretical" since in many circumstances it would be illegal to do so.

          If you did sea-side scattering, you probably wouldn't have as many issues with polluting, but then you'd somehow have to get the video back to the family.


          Nevertheless, if I wind up cremated, I expect someone on this forum to sneak at least part of me into near space... ;-)

          Zack Clobes, W0ZC
          Project: Traveler
          www.projecttraveler.org



          On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
           

          Hi Paul,

          Heck, we ALL talk about near space - after all, we did that all Friday a
          couple of weeks ago! So is this part of your degree program or what?

          Note that Space Data Corp has turned a decent profit from it's medium-term
          vented latex floaters carrying proprietary cell sites. Space Data started
          out considering station-keeping long-duration balloons, but soon discovered
          that balloon volume, weight and cost soars exponentially with weight, thus
          driving them towards small latex bags like we're used to flying. The fact
          that they keep the sky full of their balloons over the area of interest, an
          have them networked, pretty well deals with the random flight trajectory
          issue.

          DoD is becoming quite interested in using near space and lower balloons
          for remote sensing, communications and tactical purposes; maybe we in ARHAB
          might have inspired 'em? Of course, NASA's Columbia SBF has been launching
          "Buicks with 4 scientists" into near space for decades - but those flights
          ain't cheap.

          EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
          some of the results have been quite revealing. And astronomers have become
          interested in flying sub-orbital telescopes - almost as good birds like
          Hubble, but a LOT cheaper to fly, and you can get 'em back to fly again
          another day. A good example was the microwave background survey experiment
          that flew under a ZPB from Sweden to Canada a few years ago.

          You mentioned ZPB's as the way to achieve long-duration flights. However,
          the Space Data technique seems to work just dandy. With newer polymer
          films coming out, super-pressure balloons may be the next wave of floaters.
          SPBs don't "burn" ballast to stay afloat, and the envelopes can be made
          quite UV-resistant. NASA has been working with AeroStar to develop SPBs of
          the size they're accustomed to flying, but the stresses required to hold
          gas pressure with 2000 kg neck loads are formidable. So I foresee some
          ARHAB group taking the initiative to make and fly a small SPB by 2015.
          Hmmm ... just WHO will it be?

          And for sure, we can expect to see more for-profit organizations such as
          Space Data trotting out new sub-orbital services, using commercial and/or
          Part 15 RF links.

          Forecasting the future is risky business - it's always easier to forecast
          in retrospect :=).

          73 de Mike W5VSI



          On 7/31/2010 20:13, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
          >
          >
          > I've been asked to speak about the future of near space. First is up to 2015.
          > I want to say that what we do was started in 1987. At the time, education was
          > not a big part of it, it was mostly hams trying out ham equipment at high
          > altitude. Gradually education got involved and is now one of the biggest

          > growth areas. Colleges and high schools use near space to motivate students
          > and encourage them to work on technical degrees. Some colleges have used near
          > space to teach the principles of spaceflight. If the cost of spaceflight
          > continues to decrease, then we could see more use of near space at
          > universities. Hams provide most of the lift services, but there are cases of
          > non-ham radios being used. Commercial and ISM radios could equal the number
          > of ham radios used in near space by 2015. Perhaps in five years, commercial

          > entities will provide launch services for schools. They have the benefit of
          > being able to launch on weekdays, when most hams are working.
          > Hams were the first to experiment with repeaters in near space. While it's
          > not a big money maker yet, using balloon repeaters is used commerically along
          > the gulf coast. It may never grow very large, but it could be useful in
          > emergency situations like fighting fires in mountainous terrain where repeater
          > coverage is poor. Could a commercial outfit find this a profitable enterprise?

          > Because winds are too variable and not repeatable, I don't believe balloon
          > borne platforms will be very practical for mapping or resource detection. The
          > fact that balloons climb in altitude also hinders this because of the changing
          > scale size ad level of details. ZPB can address some of these issues, but are
          > still limited because they can't fly repeatable path. Perhaps for one time
          > coverage, balloons will work well.
          > I foresee balloons still being used for atmospheric profiles. Satellites will
          > be get better sensors for measuring the atmosphere. However, that also means
          > balloons will get better sensors, also. A satellite can cover a larger area,
          > but sacrifices the small details that balloons can measure. As long as the
          > gases are mixed uniformly, balloons can measure them anywhere.
          > I don't see industrial processes being carried out in near space. But what
          > about Internet servers in near space? Perhaps lots of people would be willing
          > to check in to the environmental conditions and images on a near space
          > website. The equipment would be paid for by advertisers on the website.
          > Bigelow Aerospace has launched mementos into space that people paid to have

          > launched. They can see them floating around on the space station's website.
          > JP Aerospace has photographed business cards in near space. Is carrying
          > personal stuff into near space a profitable venture when you consider the
          > expense of recovery?
          > Burial services? An ounce of cremains could be placed inside a balloon and

          > then launched. A digital camera pointed up will show the balloon bursting in
          > near space and spreading the ashes. Or the ashes could be carried up in a

          > container that is dumped in near space. Again, having a video recorder to
          > record the event would be important.
          > Anyhow, these are things I'm thinking about. If you have any ideas
          > or resources, please let me know.
          >
          > --
          > Onwards and Upwards,
          > Paul
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
          "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
          A. Einstein






          --
          Onwards and Upwards,
          Paul
        • Joe
          No he only patented the Filling unit. How to place the ashes in the balloon and fill it and transport it filled to the release site. so that if there should
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            No he only patented the Filling unit.  How to place the ashes in the balloon and fill it and transport it filled to the release site.  so that if there should be a premature pop that the ashes dont go all over the place.  they are contained in this patented trailer more or less.

            He has it like when apollo examined the Moon rocks.  a sealed trailer with the goofy arms to handle stuff so that the room remains sealed etc.  Thats what he patented.
            Sig
            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com

            On 8/1/2010 10:17 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
            They have patented this process!!!
             
            They claimm to only send ashes to 30,000 feet.  measley.
             
            Okay, what I am going to post is a process of dumping ashes overboard from 100,000 feet.  It will be made public and cannot be patented.
             
            Okay, it's the process.  Cups holding the ashes are mounted to a servo.  While the cup is in the upright position, it is covered by a lid.  When tipped to a 90 degree angle, the lid comes off and the ashes spill out.  The mechanism must be carried on  3000 gram balloon and video taped with a digital camera.
             
            I will write a sidebar for Nuts and Volts and post it to my Twitter account and blog.
             
            Anyhow, anyone is free to use it.  I'll make up diagrams and post them shortly.
             
            Paul 

            On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
            We thought of this probably 15 years ago,  And even contacted ohhh say 50 Funeral services around us here about developing such a service,and not one was interested.

            I thought about it again a few years ago, and did some more searching on it.  as far as rules and regulations, and there really isn't any.

            The only restrictions I found are two.  One is similar to our catch all Far rule about not making a hazard to thos below.  Like if you were to spread at a low altitude over a large group of people.

            As far as the Feds go the only rule they had was that if you were to spread over federal lands Like National parks etc.  you need to get a permit for it.

            But also in doing this ressearch I did find one guy that is doing it already commercially.

            But at a HUGE cost.

            He only sends a few ounces of ashes aloft, and charges several thousand dollars for the service!

            Plus he doen't have a clue as to how the balloons work,  i love this quote,

            So what happens to the balloon?
                   
            After its release, the balloon travels to an altitude of approximately five miles. At that height the temperature is 40 degrees below zero. The balloon simple crystalizes and fractures, scattering the ashes to the four winds.






            Here is his web page,
            http://eternalascent.com/index.html


            Take Care Everyone!

            Joe WB9SBD

            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com

            On 8/1/2010 4:46 AM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
            NSV flew ashes inside the balloon, hence distributed ashes of my dad this way a couple of years ago. Deb and I expect the same when our time comes.


            On Jul 31, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Zack Clobes wrote:

             

            Regarding the scattering of ashes, I believe the EPA has some issues with that.  There are various pilots/aircraft that are setup to do such a thing.  Several years ago I stumbled across a website (don't remember what I was actually looking for...) that was talking about it, but they kept referring to it as "theoretical" since in many circumstances it would be illegal to do so.

            If you did sea-side scattering, you probably wouldn't have as many issues with polluting, but then you'd somehow have to get the video back to the family.


            Nevertheless, if I wind up cremated, I expect someone on this forum to sneak at least part of me into near space... ;-)

            Zack Clobes, W0ZC
            Project: Traveler
            www.projecttraveler.org



            On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
             

            Hi Paul,

            Heck, we ALL talk about near space - after all, we did that all Friday a
            couple of weeks ago! So is this part of your degree program or what?

            Note that Space Data Corp has turned a decent profit from it's medium-term
            vented latex floaters carrying proprietary cell sites. Space Data started
            out considering station-keeping long-duration balloons, but soon discovered
            that balloon volume, weight and cost soars exponentially with weight, thus
            driving them towards small latex bags like we're used to flying. The fact
            that they keep the sky full of their balloons over the area of interest, an
            have them networked, pretty well deals with the random flight trajectory
            issue.

            DoD is becoming quite interested in using near space and lower balloons
            for remote sensing, communications and tactical purposes; maybe we in ARHAB
            might have inspired 'em? Of course, NASA's Columbia SBF has been launching
            "Buicks with 4 scientists" into near space for decades - but those flights
            ain't cheap.

            EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
            some of the results have been quite revealing. And astronomers have become
            interested in flying sub-orbital telescopes - almost as good birds like
            Hubble, but a LOT cheaper to fly, and you can get 'em back to fly again
            another day. A good example was the microwave background survey experiment
            that flew under a ZPB from Sweden to Canada a few years ago.

            You mentioned ZPB's as the way to achieve long-duration flights. However,
            the Space Data technique seems to work just dandy. With newer polymer
            films coming out, super-pressure balloons may be the next wave of floaters.
            SPBs don't "burn" ballast to stay afloat, and the envelopes can be made
            quite UV-resistant. NASA has been working with AeroStar to develop SPBs of
            the size they're accustomed to flying, but the stresses required to hold
            gas pressure with 2000 kg neck loads are formidable. So I foresee some
            ARHAB group taking the initiative to make and fly a small SPB by 2015.
            Hmmm ... just WHO will it be?

            And for sure, we can expect to see more for-profit organizations such as
            Space Data trotting out new sub-orbital services, using commercial and/or
            Part 15 RF links.

            Forecasting the future is risky business - it's always easier to forecast
            in retrospect :=).

            73 de Mike W5VSI



            On 7/31/2010 20:13, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
            >
            >
            > I've been asked to speak about the future of near space. First is up to 2015.
            > I want to say that what we do was started in 1987. At the time, education was
            > not a big part of it, it was mostly hams trying out ham equipment at high
            > altitude. Gradually education got involved and is now one of the biggest

            > growth areas. Colleges and high schools use near space to motivate students
            > and encourage them to work on technical degrees. Some colleges have used near
            > space to teach the principles of spaceflight. If the cost of spaceflight
            > continues to decrease, then we could see more use of near space at
            > universities. Hams provide most of the lift services, but there are cases of
            > non-ham radios being used. Commercial and ISM radios could equal the number
            > of ham radios used in near space by 2015. Perhaps in five years, commercial

            > entities will provide launch services for schools. They have the benefit of
            > being able to launch on weekdays, when most hams are working.
            > Hams were the first to experiment with repeaters in near space. While it's
            > not a big money maker yet, using balloon repeaters is used commerically along
            > the gulf coast. It may never grow very large, but it could be useful in
            > emergency situations like fighting fires in mountainous terrain where repeater
            > coverage is poor. Could a commercial outfit find this a profitable enterprise?

            > Because winds are too variable and not repeatable, I don't believe balloon
            > borne platforms will be very practical for mapping or resource detection. The
            > fact that balloons climb in altitude also hinders this because of the changing
            > scale size ad level of details. ZPB can address some of these issues, but are
            > still limited because they can't fly repeatable path. Perhaps for one time
            > coverage, balloons will work well.
            > I foresee balloons still being used for atmospheric profiles. Satellites will
            > be get better sensors for measuring the atmosphere. However, that also means
            > balloons will get better sensors, also. A satellite can cover a larger area,
            > but sacrifices the small details that balloons can measure. As long as the
            > gases are mixed uniformly, balloons can measure them anywhere.
            > I don't see industrial processes being carried out in near space. But what
            > about Internet servers in near space? Perhaps lots of people would be willing
            > to check in to the environmental conditions and images on a near space
            > website. The equipment would be paid for by advertisers on the website.
            > Bigelow Aerospace has launched mementos into space that people paid to have

            > launched. They can see them floating around on the space station's website.
            > JP Aerospace has photographed business cards in near space. Is carrying
            > personal stuff into near space a profitable venture when you consider the
            > expense of recovery?
            > Burial services? An ounce of cremains could be placed inside a balloon and

            > then launched. A digital camera pointed up will show the balloon bursting in
            > near space and spreading the ashes. Or the ashes could be carried up in a

            > container that is dumped in near space. Again, having a video recorder to
            > record the event would be important.
            > Anyhow, these are things I'm thinking about. If you have any ideas
            > or resources, please let me know.
            >
            > --
            > Onwards and Upwards,
            > Paul
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
            "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
            A. Einstein






            --
            Onwards and Upwards,
            Paul
          • Mike Manes
            Hi Mark, The NOAA profiler, aka Aircore , has two parts: 1. The airborne portion is 100 m length of about 1/4 OD tubing, coiled up and sealed at one end with
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Mark,

              The NOAA profiler, aka "Aircore", has two parts:

              1. The airborne portion is 100 m length of about 1/4" OD tubing, coiled up and
              sealed at one end with a valve at the other. The tube is filled with a
              standard 380 ppm concentration of CO2 and air. Just before launch, the valve
              is opened, so that the tube vents during ascent. Now, during descent, the
              tube refills with ambient air, forming the gaseous equivalent of a core
              sample. On landing the valve is closed, thus sealing off the core sample.
              Due to the internal dimensions of the tube, the CO2 concentration of the
              core sample retains its structure, since diffusion is relatively slow in that
              long, skinny enclosure.

              2. After the flight, the tube is connected to a very sensitive IR
              spectrometer, and the core sample is then pushed out from the end opposite
              from the flight valve using 380 ppm air. The spectrometer is tuned to
              absorption line(s) of the gas species of interest. The 380 ppm "push" gas
              serves as an "eof" marker.

              If the aircore sample get to the lab within 24 hours, the CO2 concentration
              can be resolved with a resolution of 10 m in altitude with a precision of
              better than 1 ppm. As one can understand, high confidence in a timely
              recovery after landing is a key requirement.

              Now, I've heard that there are some folks working on real-time in situ CO2
              analyzers, and EOSS might be flying some of those by 'n by.

              73 de Mike W5VSI

              On 7/31/2010 21:16, Mark Conner wrote:
              >
              >
              > Mike,
              >
              > Any details on the CO2 sensors? The company I work for has some interest in
              > balloon-borne CO2 sensor profiles.
              >
              > Still hoping someday to combine hobby and work.........
              >
              > 73 de Mark N9XTN
              >
              > On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 21:58, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...
              > <mailto:mrmanes@...>> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
              > some of the results have been quite revealing.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
              "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
              A. Einstein
            • Mark Conner
              Very interesting, thanks Mike. I can buy a concentration precision (maybe even accuracy) of 1 ppm with their method, but I think 10m vertical precision is
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Very interesting, thanks Mike.  I can buy a concentration precision (maybe even accuracy) of 1 ppm with their method, but I think 10m vertical precision is asking a lot from the sampling method.  They can generate that precision, but I'd have my doubts on the accuracy. 

                Anyway, now I can Google for more ("NOAA aircore profiler") and I see a few hits worth investigating already.  Seems a simple enough process and may be worth showing to some atmospheric science types at Creighton or NU.

                73 de Mark N9XTN


                On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 16:58, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
                Hi Mark,

                The NOAA profiler, aka "Aircore", has two parts:

                1. The airborne portion is 100 m length of about 1/4" OD tubing, coiled up and
                sealed at one end with a valve at the other.  The tube is filled with a
                standard 380 ppm concentration of CO2 and air.  Just before launch, the valve
                is opened, so that the tube vents during ascent.  Now, during descent, the
                tube refills with ambient air, forming the gaseous equivalent of a core sample.  On landing the valve is closed, thus sealing off the core sample.
                Due to the internal dimensions of the tube, the CO2 concentration of the
                core sample retains its structure, since diffusion is relatively slow in that
                long, skinny enclosure.

                2. After the flight, the tube is connected to a very sensitive IR spectrometer, and the core sample is then pushed out from the end opposite
                from the flight valve using 380 ppm air.  The spectrometer is tuned to absorption line(s) of the gas species of interest.  The 380 ppm "push" gas
                serves as an "eof" marker.

                If the aircore sample get to the lab within 24 hours, the CO2 concentration
                can be resolved with a resolution of 10 m in altitude with a precision of better than 1 ppm.  As one can understand, high confidence in a timely
                recovery after landing is a key requirement.

                Now, I've heard that there are some folks working on real-time in situ CO2
                analyzers, and EOSS might be flying some of those by 'n by.

                73 de Mike W5VSI

                On 7/31/2010 21:16, Mark Conner wrote:


                Mike,

                Any details on the CO2 sensors?  The company I work for has some interest in
                balloon-borne CO2 sensor profiles.

                Still hoping someday to combine hobby and work.........

                73 de Mark N9XTN


                On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 21:58, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...
                <mailto:mrmanes@...>> wrote:



                   EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers for NOAA, and
                   some of the results have been quite revealing.






                --
                Mike Manes    mrmanes@...     Tel: 303-979-4899
                "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                A. Einstein

              • Mike Manes
                Dr Peiter Tans of NOAA developed the Aircore and has both analysis and empirical data to show the vertical resolution. I can send you his email address if you
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 1, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dr Peiter Tans of NOAA developed the Aircore and has both analysis and
                  empirical data to show the vertical resolution. I can send you his email
                  address if you want more than I passed on off the top of my head.
                  73 de Mike W5VSI

                  On 8/1/2010 16:08, Mark Conner wrote:
                  > Very interesting, thanks Mike. I can buy a concentration precision (maybe
                  > even accuracy) of 1 ppm with their method, but I think 10m vertical precision
                  > is asking a lot from the sampling method. They can generate that precision,
                  > but I'd have my doubts on the accuracy.
                  >
                  > Anyway, now I can Google for more ("NOAA aircore profiler") and I see a few
                  > hits worth investigating already. Seems a simple enough process and may be
                  > worth showing to some atmospheric science types at Creighton or NU.
                  >
                  > 73 de Mark N9XTN
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 16:58, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...
                  > <mailto:mrmanes@...>> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Mark,
                  >
                  > The NOAA profiler, aka "Aircore", has two parts:
                  >
                  > 1. The airborne portion is 100 m length of about 1/4" OD tubing, coiled up and
                  > sealed at one end with a valve at the other. The tube is filled with a
                  > standard 380 ppm concentration of CO2 and air. Just before launch, the valve
                  > is opened, so that the tube vents during ascent. Now, during descent, the
                  > tube refills with ambient air, forming the gaseous equivalent of a core
                  > sample. On landing the valve is closed, thus sealing off the core sample.
                  > Due to the internal dimensions of the tube, the CO2 concentration of the
                  > core sample retains its structure, since diffusion is relatively slow in that
                  > long, skinny enclosure.
                  >
                  > 2. After the flight, the tube is connected to a very sensitive IR
                  > spectrometer, and the core sample is then pushed out from the end opposite
                  > from the flight valve using 380 ppm air. The spectrometer is tuned to
                  > absorption line(s) of the gas species of interest. The 380 ppm "push" gas
                  > serves as an "eof" marker.
                  >
                  > If the aircore sample get to the lab within 24 hours, the CO2 concentration
                  > can be resolved with a resolution of 10 m in altitude with a precision of
                  > better than 1 ppm. As one can understand, high confidence in a timely
                  > recovery after landing is a key requirement.
                  >
                  > Now, I've heard that there are some folks working on real-time in situ CO2
                  > analyzers, and EOSS might be flying some of those by 'n by.
                  >
                  > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                  >
                  > On 7/31/2010 21:16, Mark Conner wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mike,
                  >
                  > Any details on the CO2 sensors? The company I work for has some
                  > interest in
                  > balloon-borne CO2 sensor profiles.
                  >
                  > Still hoping someday to combine hobby and work.........
                  >
                  > 73 de Mark N9XTN
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 21:58, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...
                  > <mailto:mrmanes@...>
                  > <mailto:mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...>>> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > EOSS has flown several in situ atmospheric CO2 and CH4 profilers
                  > for NOAA, and
                  > some of the results have been quite revealing.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Mike Manes mrmanes@... <mailto:mrmanes@...> Tel: 303-979-4899
                  > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                  > A. Einstein
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                  "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                  A. Einstein
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