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Salina Launch

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  • L. Paul Verhage
    I didn t see a link to the online reporting system, so let me pass this on now. Keith, can you email me the link again? I ll be launching a balloon with Pete
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
      I didn't see a link to the online reporting system, so let me pass this on now.  Keith, can you email me the link again?
       
      I'll be launching a balloon with Pete Sias and KWU in Salina this Saturday.  We may actually launch two of them (there's enough payload).  The trackers I'm sendng up will transmit on 144.39 under the callsigns, KD4STH-4, -8, and -9.  The balloons are 1500 gram.
       
      Launch takes place from the KWU campus at 8 AM this Saturday.  Current trajectory is towards Wichita, but the winds aloft report I looked at didn't go all the way to 95,000 feet.
       
      Zack, we may not be too far from your location.  Do you want to help with chase?

      --
      Onwards and Upwards,
      Paul
    • Keith Kaiser
      The announcement page is at; . I ll get the posting started
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009

        The announcement page is at; <http://www.arhab.org/ARHABlaunchannouncements.html> and a link to the form is at the top of the page but here it is too; <http://www.arhab.org/annomail.html>.

        I'll get the posting started with what you gave me, you can fill in the gaps when you have a minute.

        On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:01 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:

         

        I didn't see a link to the online reporting system, so let me pass this on now.  Keith, can you email me the link again?
         
        I'll be launching a balloon with Pete Sias and KWU in Salina this Saturday.  We may actually launch two of them (there's enough payload).  The trackers I'm sendng up will transmit on 144.39 under the callsigns, KD4STH-4, -8, and -9.  The balloons are 1500 gram.
         
        Launch takes place from the KWU campus at 8 AM this Saturday.  Current trajectory is towards Wichita, but the winds aloft report I looked at didn't go all the way to 95,000 feet.
         
        Zack, we may not be too far from your location.  Do you want to help with chase?

        --
        Onwards and Upwards,
        Paul


        73's
        Keith Kaiser



      • Zack Clobes
        I d love to help chase, but I have to work this weekend until noon, and don t have a way out at this point. I ll pass this along to Jon to see if he wants to
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
          I'd love to help chase, but I have to work this weekend until noon, and don't have a way out at this point.  I'll pass this along to Jon to see if he wants to go.

          I'd be available after noon if you're having any recovery issues.

          Zack

          On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@...> wrote:
           


          The announcement page is at; <http://www.arhab.org/ARHABlaunchannouncements.html> and a link to the form is at the top of the page but here it is too; <http://www.arhab.org/annomail.html>.

          I'll get the posting started with what you gave me, you can fill in the gaps when you have a minute.

          On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:01 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:

           

          I didn't see a link to the online reporting system, so let me pass this on now.  Keith, can you email me the link again?
           
          I'll be launching a balloon with Pete Sias and KWU in Salina this Saturday.  We may actually launch two of them (there's enough payload).  The trackers I'm sendng up will transmit on 144.39 under the callsigns, KD4STH-4, -8, and -9.  The balloons are 1500 gram.
           
          Launch takes place from the KWU campus at 8 AM this Saturday.  Current trajectory is towards Wichita, but the winds aloft report I looked at didn't go all the way to 95,000 feet.
           
          Zack, we may not be too far from your location.  Do you want to help with chase?

          --
          Onwards and Upwards,
          Paul


          73's
          Keith Kaiser




        • Greg Williams
          http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site) [I m worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009

            http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

            [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

            LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

            According to the Larimer County  Sheriff 's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

            On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

            The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

            Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

            The Federal Aviation  Administration  is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

            Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

            9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.


          • Joe
            I feel it s far too small even to lift a child this small. Plus, ummm, why doesn t anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
              I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.

              Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?


              Greg Williams wrote:

              http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

              [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

              LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

              According to the Larimer County Sheriff 's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

              On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

              The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

              Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

              The Federal Aviation  Administration  is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

              Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

              9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.



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            • Mark Conner
              Excellent point! If the dimensions quoted are correct (20 ft dia, 5 ft thick), that s only a bit over 300 cu ft. That s what, about 16 lbs gross lift? This
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                Excellent point!  If the dimensions quoted are correct (20 ft dia, 5 ft thick), that's only a bit over 300 cu ft.  That's what, about 16 lbs gross lift?  This is simply figuring on a cylinder of that size - a saucer shape would be less (think round Mylar balloon on its side).
                 
                Dimensions of 30 x 8 would roughly double the lift figure, still marginal for a 6-yo (mine weighs about 40 lbs and she's small for her age).  From what I remember of the landing footage and the people next to the balloon, 30x8 may be closer to correct.
                 
                The thing with the parents is odd - seems the authorities are closed-mouthed about that at the moment.
                 
                - Mark

                On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 14:48, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.

                Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?


                Greg Williams wrote:

                http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

                [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

                LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

                According to the Larimer County Sheriff's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

                On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

                The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

                Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

                The Federal Aviation Administration is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

                Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

                9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.



                No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00

              • Rodney Sparks
                I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world. The kid s probably hiding somewhere. -Rodney
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                  I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world.  The kid's probably hiding somewhere.

                  -Rodney


                  On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                  I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.

                  Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?


                  Greg Williams wrote:

                  http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

                  [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

                  LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

                  According to the Larimer County Sheriff's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

                  On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

                  The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

                  Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

                  The Federal Aviation Administration is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

                  Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

                  9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.



                  No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00

                • Joe
                  The next question is now,, I know of a few groups (Mine included) that have had rouge flights, but they really didn t cost anyone anything other than time
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                    The next question is now,,

                    I know of a few groups (Mine included)  that have had rouge flights,  but they really didn't cost anyone anything other than time reporting where it is for a long time.

                    Now this though,

                    we got Black hawks,  other copters, we have ground earch and rescue people.    etc.  what a simple Medivac flight costs,  this will have to cost maybe 100 grand on costs to the state governments/  are they going to be liable for this?  especially no one knew or knows where the kid is?

                    Worst case I can see is,  if it was possible to take off,  sadly he fell out sometime during the flightand thats why no one is saying where he is, because they simply don't know where the body is.

                    BUT,  still  i think it was too small,  and as soon as i seen the footage on TV while it was flying I was like 99% sure there was nothing in the "Gondola"  for several times that thing almost turned up side down while it was flying.

                    If it had a 40 pound ballast weight in it,  there would be absolutely no way the thing could almost flip up side down like that.

                    Joe

                    Rodney Sparks wrote:
                    I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world.  The kid's probably hiding somewhere.

                    -Rodney


                    On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                    I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.

                    Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?


                    Greg Williams wrote:

                    http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

                    [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

                    LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

                    According to the Larimer County Sheriff's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

                    On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

                    The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

                    Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

                    The Federal Aviation Administration is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

                    Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

                    9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.



                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00


                    No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                  • Rodney Sparks
                    So, did you guys see the black and yellow static sensitive stickers around the periphery of the balloon? Based on that, I d say it might have been filled
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                      So, did you guys see the black and yellow "static sensitive" stickers around the periphery of the balloon?  Based on that, I'd say it might have been filled with hydrogen, not helium.  That's only about 8% more buoyancy though.

                      I figure that if that balloon had 40 pounds of ballast on it and then lost that ballast, it wouldn't have stopped ascending at ~8k ft like they said it did, unless that drooping side of the balloon had a tear in it and most of the gas had escaped along the way somewhere.

                      -Rodney


                      On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                      The next question is now,,

                      I know of a few groups (Mine included)  that have had rouge flights,  but they really didn't cost anyone anything other than time reporting where it is for a long time.

                      Now this though,

                      we got Black hawks,  other copters, we have ground earch and rescue people.    etc.  what a simple Medivac flight costs,  this will have to cost maybe 100 grand on costs to the state governments/  are they going to be liable for this?  especially no one knew or knows where the kid is?

                      Worst case I can see is,  if it was possible to take off,  sadly he fell out sometime during the flightand thats why no one is saying where he is, because they simply don't know where the body is.

                      BUT,  still  i think it was too small,  and as soon as i seen the footage on TV while it was flying I was like 99% sure there was nothing in the "Gondola"  for several times that thing almost turned up side down while it was flying.

                      If it had a 40 pound ballast weight in it,  there would be absolutely no way the thing could almost flip up side down like that.

                      Joe


                      Rodney Sparks wrote:
                      I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world.  The kid's probably hiding somewhere.

                      -Rodney


                      On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                      I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.

                      Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to see where the kid is?


                      Greg Williams wrote:

                      http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339 (pics of the balloon on web site)

                      [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]

                      LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively searching for a child who literally floated away from his family's home on an experimental aircraft.

                      According to the Larimer County Sheriff's Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 

                      On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials, the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding it in place.

                      The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 

                      Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos of an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in Fort Collins. 

                      The Federal Aviation Administration is working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has notified the Denver International Airport.

                      Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46 and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.

                      9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to provide updates as they are available.



                      No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00


                      No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00

                    • Joe
                      CNN is talking to the sherriff people, and they are searching the area directly easdt of the launch site. They say it landed southeast, but they say it could
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                        CNN is talking to the sherriff people, and they are searching the area
                        directly easdt of the launch site.

                        They say it landed southeast, but they say it could have taken a path
                        that could be anywhere from due east to due south than drifted to the
                        south east.

                        wow. they do not have any idea as to the path this thing took.

                        >
                        >
                      • Robert Rochte
                        How are you guys coming up with a volume under 500 cubic feet? If you base this on a simple cylinder, then it s pi*r^2*length. If it s 25 in diametre and 6
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009

                          How are you guys coming up with a volume under 500 cubic feet?  If you base this on a simple cylinder, then it's pi*r^2*length.  If it's 25' in diametre and 6' tall, then it would have a volume of almost 3000 cubic feet.
                        • wb8elk@aol.com
                          I came up with 1040 cubic feet.....volume of an ellipsoid that is 20 feet in diameter and 5 feet tall....however, comparing the diameter in the field against
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                            I came up with 1040 cubic feet.....volume of an ellipsoid that is 20 feet in diameter and 5 feet tall....however, comparing the diameter in the field against the height of the responders...it looks closer 14 feet in diameter.
                             
                            - Bill WB8ELK

                             



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Robert Rochte <rrochte@...>
                            To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                            Cc: Ballooning@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 4:58 pm
                            Subject: Re: [Ballooning] Re: [GPSL] 6-yr old in experimental balloon

                             

                            How are you guys coming up with a volume under 500 cubic feet?  If you base this on a simple cylinder, then it's pi*r^2*length.  If it's 25' in diametre and 6' tall, then it would have a volume of almost 3000 cubic feet.
                          • Joe
                            Now like i said i wonder who s gonna pay for all that now? hmmmm?
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                              Now like i said  i wonder who's gonna pay for all that now?  hmmmm?

                              wb8elk@... wrote:
                              I came up with 1040 cubic feet.....volume of an ellipsoid that is 20 feet in diameter and 5 feet tall....however, comparing the diameter in the field against the height of the responders...it looks closer 14 feet in diameter.
                               
                              - Bill WB8ELK

                               



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Robert Rochte <rrochte@...>
                              To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                              Cc: Ballooning@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 4:58 pm
                              Subject: Re: [Ballooning] Re: [GPSL] 6-yr old in experimental balloon

                               

                              How are you guys coming up with a volume under 500 cubic feet?  If you base this on a simple cylinder, then it's pi*r^2*length.  If it's 25' in diametre and 6' tall, then it would have a volume of almost 3000 cubic feet.

                              No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                            • Mark Conner
                              Total brain lock - I was using pi*d*h for volume instead of p*r^2*h. Trying again, assuming a cylinder 20 ft in diameter and 5 ft tall would be 1570 cu ft and
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                                Total brain lock - I was using pi*d*h for volume instead of p*r^2*h.  Trying again, assuming a cylinder 20 ft in diameter and 5 ft tall would be 1570 cu ft and that would be enough to lift close to 100 lbs.  Bill's ellipsoid model would lift about 65 lbs.
                                 
                                Should have taken a nap instead of committing math on the e-mail list.
                                 
                                - Mark

                                On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 17:26, <wb8elk@...> wrote:


                                I came up with 1040 cubic feet.....volume of an ellipsoid that is 20 feet in diameter and 5 feet tall....however, comparing the diameter in the field against the height of the responders...it looks closer 14 feet in diameter.
                                 
                                - Bill WB8ELK

                                 



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Robert Rochte <rrochte@...>
                                To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: Ballooning@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, Oct 15, 2009 4:58 pm
                                Subject: Re: [Ballooning] Re: [GPSL] 6-yr old in experimental balloon

                                 

                                How are you guys coming up with a volume under 500 cubic feet?  If you base this on a simple cylinder, then it's pi*r^2*length.  If it's 25' in diametre and 6' tall, then it would have a volume of almost 3000 cubic feet.



                              • Jon Riley
                                Nope,can t go.Band trip to Carthage,MO on Sat. ... From: Zack Clobes Subject: Re: [GPSL] Salina Launch To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com Cc: Jon
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                                  Nope,can't go.Band trip to Carthage,MO on Sat.

                                  --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Zack Clobes <zclobes@...> wrote:

                                  From: Zack Clobes <zclobes@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [GPSL] Salina Launch
                                  To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                                  Cc: "Jon Riley" <aj0nr@...>
                                  Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 12:10 PM

                                   
                                  I'd love to help chase, but I have to work this weekend until noon, and don't have a way out at this point.  I'll pass this along to Jon to see if he wants to go.

                                  I'd be available after noon if you're having any recovery issues.

                                  Zack

                                  On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Keith Kaiser <wa0tjt@gmail. com> wrote:
                                   

                                  The announcement page is at; <http://www.arhab. org/ARHABlauncha nnouncements. html> and a link to the form is at the top of the page but here it is too; <http://www.arhab. org/annomail. html>.

                                  I'll get the posting started with what you gave me, you can fill in the gaps when you have a minute.

                                  On Oct 15, 2009, at 8:01 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:

                                   

                                  I didn't see a link to the online reporting system, so let me pass this on now.  Keith, can you email me the link again?
                                   
                                  I'll be launching a balloon with Pete Sias and KWU in Salina this Saturday.  We may actually launch two of them (there's enough payload).  The trackers I'm sendng up will transmit on 144.39 under the callsigns, KD4STH-4, -8, and -9.  The balloons are 1500 gram.
                                   
                                  Launch takes place from the KWU campus at 8 AM this Saturday.  Current trajectory is towards Wichita, but the winds aloft report I looked at didn't go all the way to 95,000 feet.
                                   
                                  Zack, we may not be too far from your location.  Do you want to help with chase?

                                  --
                                  Onwards and Upwards,
                                  Paul


                                  73's
                                  Keith Kaiser




                                • Mike Manes
                                  If the fill gas (and residual air) had completely filled the envelope, then it would have behaved like a super-pressure balloon and floated at an altitude
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 15, 2009
                                    If the fill gas (and residual air) had completely filled the envelope,
                                    then it would have behaved like a super-pressure balloon and floated
                                    at an altitude where the weight of the displaced air equaled the total
                                    balloon + payload weight (Eureka!). But SP bags have got to be strong,
                                    like bull, to hold much pressure, so a seam may have opened up letting
                                    the gas vent, and that brought it back down.

                                    73 de Mike W5VSI

                                    Rodney Sparks wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > So, did you guys see the black and yellow "static sensitive" stickers
                                    > around the periphery of the balloon? Based on that, I'd say it might
                                    > have been filled with hydrogen, not helium. That's only about 8% more
                                    > buoyancy though.
                                    >
                                    > I figure that if that balloon had 40 pounds of ballast on it and then
                                    > lost that ballast, it wouldn't have stopped ascending at ~8k ft like
                                    > they said it did, unless that drooping side of the balloon had a tear in
                                    > it and most of the gas had escaped along the way somewhere.
                                    >
                                    > -Rodney
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Joe <nss@... <mailto:nss@...>>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The next question is now,,
                                    >
                                    > I know of a few groups (Mine included) that have had rouge
                                    > flights, but they really didn't cost anyone anything other than
                                    > time reporting where it is for a long time.
                                    >
                                    > Now this though,
                                    >
                                    > we got Black hawks, other copters, we have ground earch and rescue
                                    > people. etc. what a simple Medivac flight costs, this will have
                                    > to cost maybe 100 grand on costs to the state governments/ are they
                                    > going to be liable for this? especially no one knew or knows where
                                    > the kid is?
                                    >
                                    > Worst case I can see is, if it was possible to take off, sadly he
                                    > fell out sometime during the flightand thats why no one is saying
                                    > where he is, because they simply don't know where the body is.
                                    >
                                    > BUT, still i think it was too small, and as soon as i seen the
                                    > footage on TV while it was flying I was like 99% sure there was
                                    > nothing in the "Gondola" for several times that thing almost turned
                                    > up side down while it was flying.
                                    >
                                    > If it had a 40 pound ballast weight in it, there would be
                                    > absolutely no way the thing could almost flip up side down like that.
                                    >
                                    > Joe
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Rodney Sparks wrote:
                                    >> I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a
                                    >> lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world. The kid's
                                    >> probably hiding somewhere.
                                    >>
                                    >> -Rodney
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Joe <nss@...
                                    >> <mailto:nss@...>> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.
                                    >>
                                    >> Plus, ummm, why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to
                                    >> see where the kid is?
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Greg Williams wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>> http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339
                                    >>> <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339>
                                    >>> (pics of the balloon on web site)
                                    >>>
                                    >>> [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]
                                    >>>
                                    >>> LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively
                                    >>> searching for a child who literally floated away from his
                                    >>> family's home on an experimental aircraft.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> According to the Larimer County Sheriff
                                    >>> <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#>'s
                                    >>> Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an
                                    >>> experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon
                                    >>> attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials,
                                    >>> the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding
                                    >>> it in place.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a
                                    >>> dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos
                                    >>> <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#> of
                                    >>> an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in
                                    >>> Fort Collins.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> The Federal Aviation Administration
                                    >>> <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#> is
                                    >>> working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has
                                    >>> notified the Denver International Airport.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the
                                    >>> boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46
                                    >>> and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> 9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to
                                    >>> provide updates as they are available.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Greg Williams
                                    >>> gregwilliams@... <mailto:gregwilliams@...>
                                    >>> k4hsm@... <mailto:k4hsm@...>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                    >>> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                    >> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    --
                                    Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                                    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                                    A. Einstein
                                  • Joe
                                    Late last night some Balloon Expert they were talking to talked about that balloon. And he said what someone could do with it, and stuff like that and he
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 16, 2009
                                      Late last night some "Balloon Expert"  they were talking to talked about that balloon.  And he said what someone could do with it,  and stuff like that and he had it rifgght too that it's too small to carry a child aloft and he also said the same thing that if he was indeed in it somehow it would never fly the way it was turing on it's side at times.

                                      BUT!  what I found amazing is that he said the balloon is a Kit you can buy online.

                                      I never seen anything like that on the web i wonder where and how much?

                                      Joe

                                      Mike Manes wrote:
                                      If the fill gas (and residual air) had completely filled the envelope,
                                      then it would have behaved like a super-pressure balloon and floated
                                      at an altitude where the weight of the displaced air equaled the total
                                      balloon + payload weight (Eureka!).  But SP bags have got to be strong,
                                      like bull, to hold much pressure, so a seam may have opened up letting
                                      the gas vent, and that brought it back down.
                                      
                                      73 de Mike W5VSI
                                      
                                      Rodney Sparks wrote:
                                        
                                      So, did you guys see the black and yellow "static sensitive" stickers 
                                      around the periphery of the balloon?  Based on that, I'd say it might 
                                      have been filled with hydrogen, not helium.  That's only about 8% more 
                                      buoyancy though.
                                      
                                      I figure that if that balloon had 40 pounds of ballast on it and then 
                                      lost that ballast, it wouldn't have stopped ascending at ~8k ft like 
                                      they said it did, unless that drooping side of the balloon had a tear in 
                                      it and most of the gas had escaped along the way somewhere.
                                      
                                      -Rodney
                                      
                                      
                                      On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Joe <nss@... <mailto:nss@...>> 
                                      wrote:
                                      
                                          The next question is now,,
                                      
                                          I know of a few groups (Mine included)  that have had rouge
                                          flights,  but they really didn't cost anyone anything other than
                                          time reporting where it is for a long time.
                                      
                                          Now this though,
                                      
                                          we got Black hawks,  other copters, we have ground earch and rescue
                                          people.    etc.  what a simple Medivac flight costs,  this will have
                                          to cost maybe 100 grand on costs to the state governments/  are they
                                          going to be liable for this?  especially no one knew or knows where
                                          the kid is?
                                      
                                          Worst case I can see is,  if it was possible to take off,  sadly he
                                          fell out sometime during the flightand thats why no one is saying
                                          where he is, because they simply don't know where the body is.
                                      
                                          BUT,  still  i think it was too small,  and as soon as i seen the
                                          footage on TV while it was flying I was like 99% sure there was
                                          nothing in the "Gondola"  for several times that thing almost turned
                                          up side down while it was flying.
                                      
                                          If it had a 40 pound ballast weight in it,  there would be
                                          absolutely no way the thing could almost flip up side down like that.
                                      
                                          Joe
                                      
                                      
                                          Rodney Sparks wrote:
                                          
                                          I think the kid and his brother just played the prank of a
                                          lifetime on their parents AND the rest of the world.  The kid's
                                          probably hiding somewhere.
                                      
                                          -Rodney
                                      
                                      
                                          On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Joe <nss@...
                                          <mailto:nss@...>> wrote:
                                      
                                              I feel it's far too small even to lift a child this small.
                                      
                                              Plus,  ummm,  why doesn't anyone talk to the parents yet to
                                              see where the kid is?
                                      
                                      
                                              Greg Williams wrote:
                                            
                                              http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339
                                              <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339>
                                              (pics of the balloon on web site)
                                      
                                              [I'm worried for the kid, but at the same time, envious...]
                                      
                                              LARIMER COUNTY - Officials in Larimer County are actively
                                              searching for a child who literally floated away from his
                                              family's home on an experimental aircraft.
                                      
                                              According to the Larimer County Sheriff
                                              <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#>'s
                                              Department, the 6-year-old boy's family had been building an
                                              experimental aircraft which had a large helium balloon
                                              attached at their home on Fossil Ridge Road in Fort Collins. 
                                      
                                              On Thursday morning, according to the family and officials,
                                              the boy got onto the aircraft and detached the rope holding
                                              it in place.
                                      
                                              The aircraft is described by the sheriff's office as a
                                              dome-shaped, 20 foot, 5 foot aircraft covered with foil. 
                                      
                                              Viewer Lisa Eklund sent photos
                                              <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#> of
                                              an aircraft in the air near her home on Saturn Drive, also in
                                              Fort Collins. 
                                      
                                              The Federal Aviation Administration
                                              <http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=125161&catid=339#> is
                                              working to track the aircraft on its radar tower and has
                                              notified the Denver International Airport.
                                      
                                              Shortly after noon, the Weld County Sheriff's Office says the
                                              boy was lseen two miles south of Evans, near County Road 46
                                              and Highway 85. Sky9 is now helping track the aircraft.
                                      
                                              9NEWS and Sky9 are following this story and will continue to
                                              provide updates as they are available.
                                      
                                              Greg Williams
                                              gregwilliams@... <mailto:gregwilliams@...>
                                              k4hsm@... <mailto:k4hsm@...>
                                      
                                      
                                      
                                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      
                                      
                                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 
                                              Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                                      
                                                
                                              
                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      
                                      
                                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 
                                          Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.19/2438 - Release Date: 10/15/09 12:02:00
                                      
                                            
                                            
                                      
                                      
                                      
                                          
                                        
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