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Re: [GPSL] BatchPCB

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  • Mike Manes
    Hi Greg, Well, I can design and build a perfboard circuit in less time than it takes to lay out a PCB using my favorite CAD program (TangoPCB), and it s up and
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 11, 2009
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      Hi Greg,

      Well, I can design and build a perfboard circuit in less time than it takes to
      lay out a PCB using my favorite CAD program (TangoPCB), and it's up and
      running the same day. I don't use wire-wrap any more - too bulky. I do use
      #30 AWG Kynar, but solder point-to-point to IC sockets and discrete component
      leads. With careful layout, the excess leads themselves are used to make the
      connections.

      But if I ever find a need for several copies of the same circuit, then I'd
      sure consider laying out a PCB in lieu of fabbing several pefboards.

      BTW, back when I was prototyping all-digital (read TTL and CMOS) circuits,
      I grew to love the 3M prototyping method, which replaces wire wrap pins with
      IDC pins on IC and SIP sockets. Each pin could accommodate 1 or 2 #30 kynar
      leads ... just lay the insulated wire over the pin and punch it down.
      Multiple-node wires daisy-chained lickety-split. I built a machine controller
      using that system, and it survived some pretty nasty vibration no sweat. Only
      issue was the cost - about same as wire-wrap - but the circuit side depth was
      about the same a thru-hole PCB (0.12 max above surface). Works with any 0.1"
      grid perfboard, plated or not.

      73 de Mike W5VSI

      Greg Clark wrote:
      > Yeah, but when you find out just how inexpensive batchpcb is, you'll
      > never make a wire wrap board again!!! (at least for the tiny boards I
      > make). They're about as cheap as you can get -- only drawback is the
      > time it takes......
      >
      > They route their orders thru www.goldphoenix.biz, I use them for all
      > of my volume board runs. Great service, and great prices
      >
      >
      > - Greg
      >
      > On 2/11/09, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Hmmm ... I think a PCB is great if you need multiple copies of a given
      >> design. But in my experience, balloon payload circuitry is built as
      >> onesies. So I use perfboard, and from time to time, raw clad G10 and
      >> a Dremel tool to get up and running fast (and cheap). I've even used
      >> SMT ICs this way - glued down dead-bug form - with bare #30 AWG between
      >> pins and the board. Oogly but effective.
      >>
      >> 73 de Mike W5VSI
      >>
      >> Michael Gray wrote:
      >> > Another option for low cost PCBs is PCB Fab Express.
      >> >
      >> > http://pcbfabexpress.com/
      >> >
      >> > I've had them make a number of 2 and 4 layer boards and they were all
      >> > good quality.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > L. Paul Verhage wrote:
      >> >> I just got confirmation that my PCB orders from BatchPCB have been sent
      >> >> to me. BatchPCB looks like a pretty good place to make small orders of
      >> >> PCBs, you migfht want to check it out.
      >> >>
      >> >> One of my orders is for the mini BalloonSat flight computer I'm
      >> >> experimenting with (it's a minor modification of the one I sent to EOSS
      >> >> for testing). I'll post information on them on the NearSys website as
      >> >> soon as I get it in and tested. The near space article in the March
      >> >> Nuts and Volts will also discuss it.
      >> >>
      >> >> --
      >> >> Onwards and Upwards,
      >> >> Paul
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> --
      >> Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
      >> "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
      >> A. Einstein
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
      A. Einstein
    • Greg Clark
      Mike, Yes, that s one thing I can t say -- no way I could get mine up and running in one day! And, right again, I probably spend more time laying out the board
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 11, 2009
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        Mike,

        Yes, that's one thing I can't say -- no way I could get mine up and
        running in one day!

        And, right again, I probably spend more time laying out the board than
        it would take to get it thru the PCB program -- especially if you have
        to start messing around w/ creating new library components....

        -- Greg

        On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
        > Hi Greg,
        >
        > Well, I can design and build a perfboard circuit in less time than it takes
        > to
        > lay out a PCB using my favorite CAD program (TangoPCB), and it's up and
        > running the same day. I don't use wire-wrap any more - too bulky. I do use
        > #30 AWG Kynar, but solder point-to-point to IC sockets and discrete
        > component
        > leads. With careful layout, the excess leads themselves are used to make the
        > connections.
        >
        > But if I ever find a need for several copies of the same circuit, then I'd
        > sure consider laying out a PCB in lieu of fabbing several pefboards.
        >
        > BTW, back when I was prototyping all-digital (read TTL and CMOS) circuits,
        > I grew to love the 3M prototyping method, which replaces wire wrap pins with
        > IDC pins on IC and SIP sockets. Each pin could accommodate 1 or 2 #30 kynar
        > leads ... just lay the insulated wire over the pin and punch it down.
        > Multiple-node wires daisy-chained lickety-split. I built a machine
        > controller
        > using that system, and it survived some pretty nasty vibration no sweat.
        > Only
        > issue was the cost - about same as wire-wrap - but the circuit side depth
        > was
        > about the same a thru-hole PCB (0.12 max above surface). Works with any 0.1"
        > grid perfboard, plated or not.
        >
        > 73 de Mike W5VSI
        >
        > Greg Clark wrote:
        >> Yeah, but when you find out just how inexpensive batchpcb is, you'll
        >> never make a wire wrap board again!!! (at least for the tiny boards I
        >> make). They're about as cheap as you can get -- only drawback is the
        >> time it takes......
        >>
        >> They route their orders thru www.goldphoenix.biz, I use them for all
        >> of my volume board runs. Great service, and great prices
        >>
        >>
        >> - Greg
        >>
        >> On 2/11/09, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Hmmm ... I think a PCB is great if you need multiple copies of a given
        >>> design. But in my experience, balloon payload circuitry is built as
        >>> onesies. So I use perfboard, and from time to time, raw clad G10 and
        >>> a Dremel tool to get up and running fast (and cheap). I've even used
        >>> SMT ICs this way - glued down dead-bug form - with bare #30 AWG between
        >>> pins and the board. Oogly but effective.
        >>>
        >>> 73 de Mike W5VSI
        >>>
        >>> Michael Gray wrote:
        >>> > Another option for low cost PCBs is PCB Fab Express.
        >>> >
        >>> > http://pcbfabexpress.com/
        >>> >
        >>> > I've had them make a number of 2 and 4 layer boards and they were all
        >>> > good quality.
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> > L. Paul Verhage wrote:
        >>> >> I just got confirmation that my PCB orders from BatchPCB have been
        >>> >> sent
        >>> >> to me. BatchPCB looks like a pretty good place to make small orders of
        >>> >> PCBs, you migfht want to check it out.
        >>> >>
        >>> >> One of my orders is for the mini BalloonSat flight computer I'm
        >>> >> experimenting with (it's a minor modification of the one I sent to
        >>> >> EOSS
        >>> >> for testing). I'll post information on them on the NearSys website as
        >>> >> soon as I get it in and tested. The near space article in the March
        >>> >> Nuts and Volts will also discuss it.
        >>> >>
        >>> >> --
        >>> >> Onwards and Upwards,
        >>> >> Paul
        >>> >>
        >>> >>
        >>> >>
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> > ------------------------------------
        >>> >
        >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>>
        >>> --
        >>> Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
        >>> "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
        >>> A. Einstein
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > --
        > Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
        > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
        > A. Einstein
        >
        >
      • jjdemeyer
        I have had good experiences with BatchPCB as well. I flew PC boards with a Lassen iQ GPS, sensors, and an A/D board. It all worked great! Joe Surfing
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 12, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I have had good experiences with BatchPCB as well. I flew PC boards
          with a Lassen iQ GPS, sensors, and an A/D board. It all worked great!

          Joe
          Surfing Satellites

          --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "L. Paul Verhage" <nearsys@...> wrote:
          >
          > I just got confirmation that my PCB orders from BatchPCB have been
          sent to
          > me. BatchPCB looks like a pretty good place to make small orders of
          PCBs,
          > you migfht want to check it out.
          >
          > One of my orders is for the mini BalloonSat flight computer I'm
          > experimenting with (it's a minor modification of the one I sent to
          EOSS for
          > testing). I'll post information on them on the NearSys website as
          soon as I
          > get it in and tested. The near space article in the March Nuts and
          Volts
          > will also discuss it.
          >
          > --
          > Onwards and Upwards,
          > Paul
          >
        • L. Paul Verhage
          For my onesies I make a PCB at home with DALPro parts and Ares Lite to design the PCB. I can shoot, develop, etch, and drill the PCB at home. The baords are
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            For my onesies I make a PCB at home with DALPro parts and Ares Lite to design the PCB.  I can shoot, develop, etch, and drill the PCB at home.  The baords are high qaulity and I've never come across something I need that I couldn't make.
             
            I'm starting to use BatchPCB to test commerical designs.  The goal is to go to Gold Phoenix myself to make larger lots of tested boards.
             
            Paul

            On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
            Hmmm ... I think a PCB is great if you need multiple copies of a given
            design.  But in my experience, balloon payload circuitry is built as
            onesies. So I use perfboard, and from time to time, raw clad G10 and
            a Dremel tool to get up and running fast (and cheap).  I've even used
            SMT ICs this way - glued down dead-bug form - with bare #30 AWG between
            pins and the board.  Oogly but effective.

            73 de Mike W5VSI

            Michael Gray wrote:
            > Another option for low cost PCBs is PCB Fab Express.
            >
            > http://pcbfabexpress.com/
            >
            > I've had them make a number of 2 and 4 layer boards and they were all
            > good quality.
            >
            >
            >
            > L. Paul Verhage wrote:
            >> I just got confirmation that my PCB orders from BatchPCB have been sent
            >> to me.  BatchPCB looks like a pretty good place to make small orders of
            >> PCBs, you migfht want to check it out.
            >>
            >> One of my orders is for the mini BalloonSat flight computer I'm
            >> experimenting with (it's a minor modification of the one I sent to EOSS
            >> for testing).  I'll post information on them on the NearSys website as
            >> soon as I get it in and tested.  The near space article in the March
            >> Nuts and Volts will also discuss it.
            >>
            >> --
            >> Onwards and Upwards,
            >> Paul
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Mike Manes    mrmanes@...     Tel: 303-979-4899
            "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
            A. Einstein


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            --
            Onwards and Upwards,
            Paul
          • L. Paul Verhage
            I figure with Ares Lite and DALPro, I can come up with an idea on Friday after work and have it working before going back to work on Monday. Of course, this
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 12, 2009
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              I figure with Ares Lite and DALPro, I can come up with an idea on Friday after work and have it working before going back to work on Monday.  Of course, this depends on the complexity and my free time.
               
              Paul   

              On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Greg Clark <k7rkt@...> wrote:
              Mike,

              Yes, that's one thing I can't say -- no way I could get mine up and
              running in one day!

              And, right again, I probably spend more time laying out the board than
              it would take to get it thru the PCB program -- especially if you have
              to start messing around w/ creating new library components....

              -- Greg

              On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
              > Hi Greg,
              >
              > Well, I can design and build a perfboard circuit in less time than it takes
              > to
              > lay out a PCB using my favorite CAD program (TangoPCB), and it's up and
              > running the same day. I don't use wire-wrap any more - too bulky. I do use
              > #30 AWG Kynar, but solder point-to-point to IC sockets and discrete
              > component
              > leads. With careful layout, the excess leads themselves are used to make the
              > connections.
              >
              > But if I ever find a need for several copies of the same circuit, then I'd
              > sure consider laying out a PCB in lieu of fabbing several pefboards.
              >
              > BTW, back when I was prototyping all-digital (read TTL and CMOS) circuits,
              > I grew to love the 3M prototyping method, which replaces wire wrap pins with
              > IDC pins on IC and SIP sockets. Each pin could accommodate 1 or 2 #30 kynar
              > leads ... just lay the insulated wire over the pin and punch it down.
              > Multiple-node wires daisy-chained lickety-split. I built a machine
              > controller
              > using that system, and it survived some pretty nasty vibration no sweat.
              > Only
              > issue was the cost - about same as wire-wrap - but the circuit side depth
              > was
              > about the same a thru-hole PCB (0.12 max above surface). Works with any 0.1"
              > grid perfboard, plated or not.
              >
              > 73 de Mike W5VSI
              >
              > Greg Clark wrote:
              >> Yeah, but when you find out just how inexpensive batchpcb is, you'll
              >> never make a wire wrap board again!!! (at least for the tiny boards I
              >> make). They're about as cheap as you can get -- only drawback is the
              >> time it takes......
              >>
              >> They route their orders thru www.goldphoenix.biz, I use them for all
              >> of my volume board runs. Great service, and great prices
              >>
              >>
              >> - Greg
              >>
              >> On 2/11/09, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> Hmmm ... I think a PCB is great if you need multiple copies of a given
              >>> design. But in my experience, balloon payload circuitry is built as
              >>> onesies. So I use perfboard, and from time to time, raw clad G10 and
              >>> a Dremel tool to get up and running fast (and cheap). I've even used
              >>> SMT ICs this way - glued down dead-bug form - with bare #30 AWG between
              >>> pins and the board. Oogly but effective.
              >>>
              >>> 73 de Mike W5VSI
              >>>
              >>> Michael Gray wrote:
              >>> > Another option for low cost PCBs is PCB Fab Express.
              >>> >
              >>> > http://pcbfabexpress.com/
              >>> >
              >>> > I've had them make a number of 2 and 4 layer boards and they were all
              >>> > good quality.
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> > L. Paul Verhage wrote:
              >>> >> I just got confirmation that my PCB orders from BatchPCB have been
              >>> >> sent
              >>> >> to me. BatchPCB looks like a pretty good place to make small orders of
              >>> >> PCBs, you migfht want to check it out.
              >>> >>
              >>> >> One of my orders is for the mini BalloonSat flight computer I'm
              >>> >> experimenting with (it's a minor modification of the one I sent to
              >>> >> EOSS
              >>> >> for testing). I'll post information on them on the NearSys website as
              >>> >> soon as I get it in and tested. The near space article in the March
              >>> >> Nuts and Volts will also discuss it.
              >>> >>
              >>> >> --
              >>> >> Onwards and Upwards,
              >>> >> Paul
              >>> >>
              >>> >>
              >>> >>
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> > ------------------------------------
              >>> >
              >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>> >
              >>>
              >>> --
              >>> Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
              >>> "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
              >>> A. Einstein
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > --
              > Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
              > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
              > A. Einstein
              >
              >


              ------------------------------------

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              --
              Onwards and Upwards,
              Paul
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