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Re: [EOSS] Re: [EOSS_Trackers] EOSS 126: Grids and Tacticals

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  • Joe
    Video is posted.. ... Ok got that now,, ... Exactly, and if youre worried about it twisting, ya jut make it longer ... Heres the launch video,
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 2, 2008
      Video is posted..

      Mike Manes wrote:

      > Hi Joe,
      >
      > "Painter line" is a naval term for a rope used to control the position
      > of a load suspended by crane - since it was a Navy guy's idea, I figgered
      > it was a workable term - ya landlubber :=}.

      Ok got that now,,

      >
      > Yeah, the load ring was supplied as part of the ZP plastic balloon. The
      > student payload was a solar UV telescope weighing some 28 lbs, and it
      > had to float at 100K' for several hours to meet mission requirements.
      > In retrospect, running the painter and lift line thru the same ring
      > wasn't a swell idea. However, I can see that tying a loop as a hitch
      > on a bight in the lift line might work better, even if the painter line
      > saws thru the loop; the knot should remain intact.

      Exactly, and if youre worried about it twisting, ya jut make it longer

      >
      > We've also used 1200 gm balloons to hold up a 160m 5/8 wave wire (#26
      > AWG)
      > for FD. It worked great while the wind was calm, but when it got up
      > over 20 kt, the balloons banged into the deck and burst. The painter
      > line will become less effective as the wind speed increases, especially
      > if it's a 3000 gm, which is about 18 ft tall at full inflation for
      > a 25 lb neck load.

      Heres the launch video,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj3kYdncd_U
      Joe & NSS

      >
      > Joe wrote:
      >
      >> Hi Mike,
      >>
      >> I need some clarification, as to how you guys set it up. Thoughts
      >> below,,
      >>
      >> Mike Manes wrote:
      >>
      >>> Hi Joe,
      >>>
      >>> We tried that only once - on EOSS-6. That "painter line" used to hold
      >>> the balloon in place until the payload string was off the ground,
      >>>
      >> "Painter Line" why did-do you call it this, just wondering?
      >>
      >>> and
      >>> then one end was released ended up sawing thru the main payload support
      >>> line on the lift ring, allowing it to drop away.
      >>>
      >> Maybe the ring wasn't the way to go? too close to the support
      >> line? So it could easily twist around the line? Ya know tortional
      >> foot pounds and all that?
      >>
      >> When we do it, we don't use a ring or anything like that, we just
      >> grab a length of the main support line, make a loop that is between
      >> 1 to 3 feet long, and tie it there. so the point where the "Hold
      >> Back" line actually passes through is at least 1 to 3 feet away from
      >> the support line.
      >>
      >> This way with he LONG distance there is a lot of foot pound action
      >> happening and it just does not twist around the main support line ever.
      >> even if it did start to twist, it would have to twist, maybe a
      >> hundred times in only one direction, to wind up the loop and get the
      >> "Hold Back" line close to the support line. And as you know they
      >> don't twist in only one direction. they go back and forth in rotation.
      >>
      >> So I'm thinking this is what happened. with your ring there was no
      >> g force to keep it from twisting, and since it's a solid, only a
      >> single rotation would make a wrap of the "Hold Back" line around the
      >> main support line, and I AGREE THIS WOULD BE VERY BAD.
      >>
      >> Whereas with the rope ring so to speak, it can twist almost all it
      >> wants to, with no effect.
      >>
      >> Just my 2 cents.
      >>
      >> Joe
      >>
      >>> That wouldn't have been
      >>> so bad has we not been flying a zero pressure plastic with a rip
      >>> panel that was tied to a slack line. The rip panel didn't open up,
      >>> however, so the balloon continued aloft with a dent in its side. And
      >>> the burner on that line got disconnected in the meantime - so we had
      >>> NO way to bring the flight down, other than to wait for theovernight
      >>> chill to ease it back to the deck. Which it did at 0430 the next
      >>> morning, about 128 miles downrange. It was our one and only derelict.
      >>>
      >>> So I guess one caveat to your method is make sure that the painter line
      >>> doesn't share the same ring as the lift line, and that it doesn't get
      >>> twisted with it, either.
      >>>
      >>>
      >> I am confused here, please explain this sharing?
      >>
      >>> Another is that this works OK for short payload lines. But if you're
      >>> running up a string of 10-12 packages on a 50-75 ft line, it's tough
      >>> to keep the balloon from blowing over and hitting the deck.
      >>>
      >>>
      >> This is EXACTLY why we started using the "Hold Back" lines is for
      >> long payloads. Short ones we never bother with it, but when we
      >> exceed 100 feet we always use it even for calm day launches And we
      >> have had better luck keeping a balloon from "Hitting the deck' using
      >> it than without, One 6 foot person trying to keep it off the ground
      >> in extreme winds we found was a challenge to say the least, as seen
      >> in many other groups videos also., But even on super windy days 30
      >> MPh steady and 40 gusts, with the LONG hold back the balloon sits
      >> close to 100 feet above ground, yes it bounces all over the place,
      >> probably close to the same amount as it does when the 6 foot tall
      >> person is holding it,, possibly even more, but we don't care
      >> because it's 100 feet above the ground..
      >>
      >> Joe.
      >>
      >>> We've used to the "Hail Mary" launch method for 120 flights since, and
      >>> although it does give tail end charlie a run for the money, a well
      >>> briefed and aligned team gets the job done well.
      >>>
      >>> And our usual practice is to keep the lines a bit taut during launch.
      >>> This time, we learned why!!
      >>>
      >>> 73 de Mike W5VSI
      >>>
      >>> Joe wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> Howdy all,
      >>>>
      >>>> Joe here from NSS,
      >>>>
      >>>> I'll try to post this image in this E Mail at the bottom, but
      >>>> just in case the group is set up to block images it is also located
      >>>> at,
      >>>>
      >>>> http://www.dzsp.org/Launcher-50.jpg
      >>>>
      >>>> I see all the time groups launching in the wind, and hear stories
      >>>> just like the one below about a rough takeoff.
      >>>>
      >>>> I cringe when I see videos of payloads being jerked form handlers
      >>>> hands, and watch them bouncing along the ground till if it's lucky
      >>>> it finally gets off the ground.
      >>>>
      >>>> We offer for the ballooning community what we do here at Near Space
      >>>> Sciences. we have launched in every type of weather, from Dead
      >>>> calm, to winds blowing 20 to 30 MPh with 40 Mph gusts. And the
      >>>> payload gets no more stress that it does hanging from my ceiling
      >>>> here in my room.
      >>>>
      >>>> It is so simple, and adds absolutely no weight to the payload., And
      >>>> the payload is actually airborne for as long as we wish before it
      >>>> actually takes off.
      >>>>
      >>>> What we do is below the balloon,, but above the chute we tie a loop
      >>>> of the support line.
      >>>>
      >>>> Through this loop we thread as long as needed a line of strong
      >>>> string. Length all depending on how windy it is. If it's a mild
      >>>> breeze, a length of line that is long enough to allow the payload
      >>>> to be airborne may be only a few yards longer than the flight train
      >>>> itself.
      >>>>
      >>>> But in very windy conditions we have gone as long as a foot ball
      >>>> field even!
      >>>>
      >>>> The launch is very simple, everything is laid outside ready for
      >>>> flight (of course except for the balloon of course)
      >>>>
      >>>> The "Hold Back Line" is threaded through the loop. and the "hold
      >>>> back person" holds both ends and is stationed up-wind from the
      >>>> launch site.
      >>>>
      >>>> And the balloon is attached and slowly hand over hand is raised
      >>>> above their heads, while the hold back person keeps it positioned
      >>>> directly above their heads.
      >>>>
      >>>> Eventually the whole payload string is airborne, but not going
      >>>> anyplace.
      >>>>
      >>>> Finally when we want liftoff so to speak to happen, the "Hold Back
      >>>> Person" releases only one end of the"Hold Back Lines"
      >>>>
      >>>> The line begins to slip through the loop, and the payload starts to
      >>>> rise straight up, nearly vertically. finally the end of the hold
      >>>> back line goes through the loop, and the payload is flying, safe,
      >>>> sound, and absolutely no jerks, or any extra stress whatsoever. no
      >>>> matter how windy it is.
      >>>>
      >>>> This is sooo simple, and we do it on all our flights.
      >>>>
      >>>> Joe
      >>>>
      >>>> If the image is below cool,, if not remember it's also at
      >>>> http://www.dzsp.org/Launcher-50.jpg
      >>>>
      >>>> Thanks for the post, Rick.
      >>>>
      >>>> Turns out the barometrically-operated locking arm on the fast release
      >>>>
      >>>>> probably< got displaced during the sudden acceleration (aka
      >>>>> "jerk") due
      >>>>
      >>>> to slack in the line between the balloon and the release device on top
      >>>> of the parachute. Since it was calm at launch, we had bunched up the
      >>>> payload handlers close to the balloon to save "Tail End Charlie" from
      >>>> having to run a 50-yard dash to get under the balloon.
      >>>>
      >>>> We were able to duplicate that effect by hand after we re-rigged the
      >>>> release for the backup balloon. So the corrective action was to remove
      >>>> the slack from that line before launch so that the acceleration would
      >>>> be nice and steady.
      >>>>
      >>>> It worked! Yet another lesson in EOSS's long saga in pursuit of the
      >>>> perfect flight! And it was a very pretty launch.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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