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Re: [GPSL] Thermometers

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  • PAUL VERHAGE
    NearSys uses a LM335 temperature sensor and ADC. On BalloonSats, it s a Hobo data logger or BalloonSat Flight computer with a LM335. Today the data is stored
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 20, 2007
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      NearSys uses a LM335 temperature sensor and ADC.  On BalloonSats, it's a Hobo data logger or BalloonSat Flight computer with a LM335.
       
      Today the data is stored onboard and retrieved after the mission.  The early flights sent data like that over APRS, but it lead to a massive APRS log that had to be cleaned up before the useful data was available. 
       
      Paul  

      >>> "Pete Lilja" <plilja@...> 12/20/2007 1:30 PM >>>
      OK, it's winter and I'm not flying but still planning of my first HAB flight.  In reading several HAB web site often references are made to the temperature both inside and outside the payload box.  What type of thermometer is used to do this?  Is it incorporated in to the APRS packet?  Stored and retrieved after the flight?
       
      Thanks,
       
      Pete
      KCØGPB
    • Mike Manes
      Hi Pete, EOSS s KPC-3-based APRS modules use the analog telemetry frames to downlink interior and outside air temps using the LM335 sensors. Telemetry gets
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 20, 2007
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        Hi Pete,

        EOSS's KPC-3-based APRS modules use the analog telemetry frames to downlink
        interior and outside air temps using the LM335 sensors. Telemetry gets
        parsed and logged in real time by Nick Hank's (N0LP) ground station software.

        The LM335 does suffer from some self-heating errors, especially in the thin
        air up there. This is evident in the much lower temperatures logged
        during descent, when airflow is much faster, compared to ascent at the
        same altitudes.

        We've used the sudden drop in air temp as a secondary indication of burst,
        back when GPS was less than 100% reliable.

        The self-heating problem could be cured by gating the bias current on only
        during measurement samples, but that's not easy with the KPC-3. It could
        be done using an asynchronous external analog sample/hold circuit that
        runs at least as often as the telemetry downlink. Or using any of the
        newer pea-power temp transducers.

        73 de Mike W5VSI

        Pete Lilja wrote:
        > OK, it's winter and I'm not flying but still planning of my first HAB
        > flight. In reading several HAB web site often references are made to
        > the temperature both inside and outside the payload box. What type of
        > thermometer is used to do this? Is it incorporated in to the APRS
        > packet? Stored and retrieved after the flight?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Pete
        > KCØGPB
        >

        --
        Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
        "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
        A. Einstein
      • John C Nordlie
        The group at UND uses National Semiconductor LM335Z sensors, connected to a logger (usually a Basic stamp II through an analog to digital converter).
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 20, 2007
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          The group at UND uses National Semiconductor LM335Z sensors, connected to
          a logger (usually a Basic stamp II through an analog to digital
          converter).

          On Thu, 20 Dec 2007, Pete Lilja wrote:

          > OK, it's winter and I'm not flying but still planning of my first HAB flight. In reading several HAB web site often references are made to the temperature both inside and outside the payload box. What type of thermometer is used to do this? Is it incorporated in to the APRS packet? Stored and retrieved after the flight?
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Pete
          > KCØGPB
        • mconner1@gmail.com
          NSTAR uses a combination of two things: 1) LM335 s run through an A/D converter, which is formatted to APRS telemetry format and transmitted once per minute.
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 20, 2007
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            NSTAR uses a combination of two things:

            1) LM335's run through an A/D converter, which is formatted to APRS telemetry format and transmitted once per minute. It's also stored at more frequent intervals onboard.

            2) Dallas Semiconductor "Thermochrons", which is a self-powered temp sensor with internal clock and memory. About the size of 5-6 dimes stacked on one another. Looks like a big mercury battery. You can program them ahead of time for stop/start/interval, then place them in your payload.

            This supplier claims to have them in stock - in the past, they have been difficult to find. Backorders tend to take forever.
            http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/page/EDS/CTGY/TCTC

            You will also need the reader unit, and there is free Windows software for programming the buttons and downloading the data (Embedded Data Systems appears to sell the software, but it should be available free from http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/software/tmex/index.cfm ).

            73 de Mark N9XTN
            www.nstar.org
          • Dan Bowen
            We (UTARC) use DS1820 / DS18S20 / DS18B20 digital sensors, they are the size of a transistor, and give very precise output. We have tested them down to -60C
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 21, 2007
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              We (UTARC) use DS1820 / DS18S20 / DS18B20 digital sensors, they are the size of a transistor, and give very precise output.  We have tested them down to -60C using dry ice, though their rating only goes to about -50.  They use a 1-wire interface, and are parasite powered, which means they get their power from the data line.  They are also addressable, which means you can attach more than one to a single data and ground line.


              Here's a snippet of code to read the DS18B20:


              I can't recall which of the three versions is currently available, but if you have trouble using that code, just email me, there's just a slight change to make for the B or S models.

              73,
              Dan
              K2VOL
              UTARC

              On Dec 20, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Pete Lilja wrote:


              OK, it's winter and I'm not flying but still planning of my first HAB flight.  In reading several HAB web site often references are made to the temperature both inside and outside the payload box.  What type of thermometer is used to do this?  Is it incorporated in to the APRS packet?  Stored and retrieved after the flight?
               
              Thanks,
               
              Pete
              KCØGPB




              Dan Bowen

              Program Manager
              UTARC Experimental High Altitude Balloon Program
              University of Tennessee Amateur Radio Club
              Knoxville, TN


            • Dan Wietchy
              Hello; Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I m curious what hardware
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                Hello;

                Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm curious what hardware and especially what software the ground stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.

                Are most folks using UI view for data reception?

                thanks

                Dan KL1JP


                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
              • Mark Conner
                Many are indeed using UI-View for plotting APRS reports from a balloon. I m still using APRS+SA mostly due to inertia, although I do like the program very
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                  Many are indeed using UI-View for plotting APRS reports from a balloon.  I'm still using APRS+SA mostly due to inertia, although I do like the program very much even though development has pretty much stopped and the last compatible map database is about 6 yrs old now.

                  If you want just simple data reception (lines on a screen), a terminal program connected to your TNC will work. 

                  I think the majority of users are using a TNC like a KPC-3 for hardware, which I also use.  I use a TH-D7 as a backup and as a way to check the payload transmissions before launch without running back to the laptop in the car.  There are quite a few who chase with just a TH-D7 or TM-D700 and no laptop.

                  73 de Mark N9XTN

                  www.nstar.org

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Dan Wietchy <powellite52@...>
                  Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:31 pm
                  Subject: [GPSL] Balloon Telemetry Reception Question
                  To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com

                  > Hello;
                  >
                  > Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either
                  > TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm
                  > curious what hardware and especially what software the ground
                  > stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry
                  > (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.
                  >
                  > Are most folks using UI view for data reception?
                  >
                  > thanks
                  >
                  > Dan KL1JP
                  >
                  >      
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                  > Try it now.

                • rahammond@charter.net
                  Hi Dan, I can t speak for everyone, but we use UI-View 32 for all of our ground stations. I have been playing with TrackPoint written by Nick Hanks N0LP from
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                    Hi Dan,

                    I can't speak for everyone, but we use UI-View 32 for all of our ground stations.
                    I have been playing with TrackPoint written by Nick Hanks N0LP from the EOSS group.

                    Rog KC0MWM
                    CNNSP


                    ---- Dan Wietchy <powellite52@...> wrote:
                    > Hello;
                    >
                    > Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm curious what hardware and especially what software the ground stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.
                    >
                    > Are most folks using UI view for data reception?
                    >
                    > thanks
                    >
                    > Dan KL1JP
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                  • Dan Wietchy
                    Thanks for the information. A few additional questions if I may? Although I ve got a Kantronics 3+ connected and it seems to be working correctly... after all
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                      Thanks for the information. A few additional questions if I may?

                      Although I've got a Kantronics 3+ connected and it seems to be working correctly... after all - it seems to connect to the transmitting radio/TNC, I see nothing on the screen when using Hyperterminal other than the regular default connection info from the Kan (ie... the autobaud rate * communication, etc...).

                      Is there some command I need to send the Kantronics to throw it into Text reception mode so I can review and save exactly what the transmitting radio/TNC is sending?  I'm fairly new to Kantronics so pardon my ignorance.

                      Also, when using the Kenwood TH-D7for receiving, I was under the impression that it only stored the last 18 data strings? How are you or others saving a continual stream of data from the TH-D7?

                      Thanks again

                      Dan KL1JP

                      Mark Conner <mconner1@...> wrote:
                      Many are indeed using UI-View for plotting APRS reports from a balloon.  I'm still using APRS+SA mostly due to inertia, although I do like the program very much even though development has pretty much stopped and the last compatible map database is about 6 yrs old now.
                      If you want just simple data reception (lines on a screen), a terminal program connected to your TNC will work. 
                      I think the majority of users are using a TNC like a KPC-3 for hardware, which I also use.  I use a TH-D7 as a backup and as a way to check the payload transmissions before launch without running back to the laptop in the car.  There are quite a few who chase with just a TH-D7 or TM-D700 and no laptop.
                      73 de Mark N9XTN
                      www.nstar.org

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Dan Wietchy <powellite52@ yahoo.com>
                      Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:31 pm
                      Subject: [GPSL] Balloon Telemetry Reception Question
                      To: GPSL@yahoogroups. com

                      > Hello;
                      >
                      > Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either
                      > TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm
                      > curious what hardware and especially what software the ground
                      > stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry
                      > (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.
                      >
                      > Are most folks using UI view for data reception?
                      >
                      > thanks
                      >
                      > Dan KL1JP
                      >
                      >      
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                      > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                      > Try it now.


                      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                    • Mike Manes
                      Hi Dan, If all you are seeing is the autobaud * prompt, then it s waiting for you to hit the * key so it can sync to your terminal s baud rate. It may take
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                        Hi Dan,

                        If all you are seeing is the autobaud "*" prompt, then it's waiting for
                        you to hit the "*" key so it can sync to your terminal's baud rate.
                        It may take several keystrokes before it syncs in - and then you'll
                        see the normal power-up screen showing 3 lines of text. Next step is
                        to set MYCALL - the callsign plus SSID for your payload. If the Li
                        batt on the KCP-3+ is good (<2.5V), then it will power up with the
                        power-up intro lines every time.

                        I've standardized on 4800 baud 8 data, 1 stop, no parity for all of
                        my serial devices. This is also pretty much standard for NMEA data
                        from GPS engines. 9600 can work, but I've found it to be less immune
                        to RF than 4800, and lower baud rates are noticeably slow.

                        My usual advice at this point is to find a comfy spot away from the
                        keyboard to browse thru Kantronic's excellent manual to learn what to
                        expect from the TNC and where to look to find out how to make it happen.
                        "If all else fails, read the book."

                        Now Hyperterm is kinda buggy - half the time I use it, I have to tweak
                        around with COM: ports and other settings. There are much better
                        terminal programs out there, and I think UI-View has a fair to middlin'
                        terminal mode screen.

                        73 de Mike W5VSI, EOSS

                        Dan Wietchy wrote:
                        > Thanks for the information. A few additional questions if I may?
                        >
                        > Although I've got a Kantronics 3+ connected and it seems to be working
                        > correctly... after all - it seems to connect to the transmitting
                        > radio/TNC, I see nothing on the screen when using Hyperterminal other
                        > than the regular default connection info from the Kan (ie... the
                        > autobaud rate * communication, etc...).
                        >
                        > Is there some command I need to send the Kantronics to throw it into
                        > Text reception mode so I can review and save exactly what the
                        > transmitting radio/TNC is sending? I'm fairly new to Kantronics so
                        > pardon my ignorance.
                        >
                        > Also, when using the Kenwood TH-D7for receiving, I was under the
                        > impression that it only stored the last 18 data strings? How are you or
                        > others saving a continual stream of data from the TH-D7?
                        >
                        > Thanks again
                        >
                        > Dan KL1JP
                        >
                        > */Mark Conner <mconner1@...>/* wrote:
                        >
                        > Many are indeed using UI-View for plotting APRS reports from a
                        > balloon. I'm still using APRS+SA mostly due to inertia, although I
                        > do like the program very much even though development has pretty
                        > much stopped and the last compatible map database is about 6 yrs old
                        > now.
                        > If you want just simple data reception (lines on a screen), a
                        > terminal program connected to your TNC will work.
                        > I think the majority of users are using a TNC like a KPC-3 for
                        > hardware, which I also use. I use a TH-D7 as a backup and as a way
                        > to check the payload transmissions before launch without running
                        > back to the laptop in the car. There are quite a few who chase with
                        > just a TH-D7 or TM-D700 and no laptop.
                        > 73 de Mark N9XTN
                        > www.nstar.org
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Dan Wietchy <powellite52@...>
                        > Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:31 pm
                        > Subject: [GPSL] Balloon Telemetry Reception Question
                        > To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > > Hello;
                        > >
                        > > Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either
                        > > TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm
                        > > curious what hardware and especially what software the ground
                        > > stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry
                        > > (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.
                        > >
                        > > Are most folks using UI view for data reception?
                        > >
                        > > thanks
                        > >
                        > > Dan KL1JP
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                        > > Try it now.
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try
                        > it now.
                        > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                        > >

                        --
                        Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                        "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                        A. Einstein
                      • Kent Ochs
                        Dan, I highly recommend UIVIEW 32 with Precision Mapping software. We use it connected to a Kenwood D700 with a Garmin GPS-18 attached. It does take a little
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 27, 2008
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                          Dan,

                          I highly recommend UIVIEW 32 with Precision Mapping software.  We use it connected to a Kenwood D700 with a Garmin GPS-18 attached.  It does take a little work to get everything configured correctly.  After that,  it is so simple that a Caveman and my 10 year old son can use it.  My apologies if there are any Cavemen in the group.

                          73's

                          Kent Ochs
                          W9KAO

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Dan Wietchy <powellite52@...>
                          To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:30:22 PM
                          Subject: [GPSL] Balloon Telemetry Reception Question

                          Hello;

                          Although I understand that many of the balloon launches use either TinyTrak, Kam TNC (3+) or another independent radio modem, I'm curious what hardware and especially what software the ground stations are using to receive the balloon telemetry (Lat/Long/Altitude) information.

                          Are most folks using UI view for data reception?

                          thanks

                          Dan KL1JP


                          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


                        • Mark Conner
                          ... Are you getting past the autobaud setup and able to send commands to the TNC? If not, you may have a communication issue between your computer and the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Feb 28, 2008
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                            > Although I've got a Kantronics 3+ connected and it seems to be
                            > working correctly... after all - it seems to connect to the
                            > transmitting radio/TNC, I see nothing on the screen when using
                            > Hyperterminal other than the regular default connection info from
                            > the Kan (ie... the autobaud rate * communication, etc...).

                            Are you getting past the autobaud setup and able to send commands to the TNC?  If not, you may have a communication issue between your computer and the TNC.


                            > Is there some command I need to send the Kantronics to throw it
                            > into Text reception mode so I can review and save exactly what the
                            > transmitting radio/TNC is sending?  I'm fairly new to Kantronics
                            > so pardon my ignorance.

                            No, the data will just appear on the screen when it's received.  You will probably want to save the incoming data to a log file (Transfer|Capture Text.. menu in HyperTerm).

                            > Also, when using the Kenwood TH-D7for receiving, I was under the
                            > impression that it only stored the last 18 data strings? How are
                            > you or others saving a continual stream of data from the TH-D7?

                            You can connect a computer to the TH-D7 or TM-D700 and have it function similar to a regular TNC/radio combo.

                            73 de Mark N9XTN

                          • Dan Wietchy
                            Thanks. I had to issue the following to the Kam3+ MA ON hit a CR and then type in MCOM ON hit a CR then it went into the correct mode. Dan ... Are you
                            Message 13 of 14 , Feb 28, 2008
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                              Thanks.
                              I had to issue the following to the Kam3+
                              MA ON   hit a CR
                              and then type in    MCOM ON  hit a CR

                              then it went into the correct mode.
                              Dan


                              Mark Conner <mconner1@...> wrote:
                              > Although I've got a Kantronics 3+ connected and it seems to be
                              > working correctly... after all - it seems to connect to the
                              > transmitting radio/TNC, I see nothing on the screen when using
                              > Hyperterminal other than the regular default connection info from
                              > the Kan (ie... the autobaud rate * communication, etc...).
                              Are you getting past the autobaud setup and able to send commands to the TNC?  If not, you may have a communication issue between your computer and the TNC.

                              > Is there some command I need to send the Kantronics to throw it
                              > into Text reception mode so I can review and save exactly what the
                              > transmitting radio/TNC is sending?  I'm fairly new to Kantronics
                              > so pardon my ignorance.
                              No, the data will just appear on the screen when it's received.  You will probably want to save the incoming data to a log file (Transfer|Capture Text.. menu in HyperTerm).
                              > Also, when using the Kenwood TH-D7for receiving, I was under the
                              > impression that it only stored the last 18 data strings? How are
                              > you or others saving a continual stream of data from the TH-D7?
                              You can connect a computer to the TH-D7 or TM-D700 and have it function similar to a regular TNC/radio combo.
                              73 de Mark N9XTN


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