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Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch

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  • Mike Manes
    Hi David, GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set of beacons, but what freqs will they be on? LiSO2 primary cells have proven to
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 20, 2007
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      Hi David,

      GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
      of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?

      LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
      payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
      tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
      CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
      BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
      at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
      bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
      sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.

      I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
      conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
      the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
      landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
      www.eoss.org.

      73 de Mike W5VSI
      Prez EOSS

      David Wilson wrote:
      > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
      > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
      > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
      > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
      > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will consist of
      > battery level and
      > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter link.
      > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
      > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate in the
      > 2 meter band.
      > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the take-off
      > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
      > comes first).
      > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from ground
      > and hopefully recovered intact.
      > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we
      > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
      > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
      > appreciated.
      >
      > cheers David ve3bbn
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
    • David
      Hi Harry es tnx fer the input on ur battery info. cheers david ve3bbn ... From: Harry M To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:28 PM
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 21, 2007
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        Hi Harry es tnx fer the input on ur battery info.
         
        cheers david ve3bbn
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Harry M
        Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch



        Hi David,

        Good luck on your ballooning efforts.

        I have used nothing but Eveready Energizer 9v batteries for all my power
        needs up to this point and have never had any problems. I have used them in
        serial and parallel configurations. I did use an Eveready 6v lithium camera
        battery one time. One of the two cells ruptured due to the lack of pressure
        at altitude.

        GLuck! & 73
        Harry

        -----
        Harry Mueller - KC5TRB - Tulsa
        Oklahoma Research Balloons
        Home Page - http://members. cox.net/hhm_ 74775/orb/
        Group - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/oklahoma_ research_ balloons/ join
        -----

        > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we need
        > as much mah as we can get with the least weight. what type have others
        > used? Any
        > help and input would be greatly appreciated.

      • David
        Hi Bill and thanks for the info on the batteries. cheers David ve3bbn ... From: wb8elk@aol.com To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com Cc: ve3bbn@sympatico.ca Sent: Tuesday,
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 21, 2007
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          Hi Bill and thanks for the info on the batteries.
           
          cheers David ve3bbn
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch

          David,
           
            Perhaps the easiest and most readily available batteries I can recommend is the lithium AA batteries you can find just about anywhere such as Walmart or Lowes....a very complete datasheet link follows:
           
           
          Just package them up in some battery holders from Radio Shack and you have a nice lithium pack that's a lot easier to build up than hacking into the old military lithium packs....and a lot safer too.
           
          - Bill WB8ELK




          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

        • D
          ... Cool! One of the sticky points may be consideration of what happens if your balloon drifts across the US border. I think that it would need to comply with
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 21, 2007
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            --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "David Wilson" <ve3bbn@...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
            > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
            > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
            > together our first package.

            Cool!

            One of the sticky points may be consideration of what happens
            if your balloon drifts across the US border. I think that it
            would need to comply with the US FAR (Federal Air Regulations) Part
            101 [3]:

            <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=8b5584c0cf53c0a4f4a5615491e1be66&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.15.1.9.1>

            Do you know what the Canadian equivalent is (and have a link) [4]?

            [3] And, one certainly hopes that it wouldn't land in Boston, since
            it would almost certainly be regarded as a terrorist device and
            exploded. :-( In any case, it probably would be a good idea to
            label the package really well.

            [4] This is more than just idle questioning, since I have relatives
            in Canada, and might want to expose them to the joys of balloon
            launching one of these days.

            > The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity and a lift-off weight of 5
            > pounds. The payload telemetry will consist of battery level and
            > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
            > link.

            Sounds like a good start. Some other things you may want to think
            about for future launches would be things like battery temperature
            (which would indicate how well your insulation is working),
            illumination levels (How much brighter does it get as you go
            up [1]?), and humidity levels (although this is probably moot once
            the temperature drops below freezing) [2].

            [1] This will probably require an integrating sphere to minimize
            problems with light directionality. It might also be interesting
            to measure UV versus visible (versus infrared?) levels, too.

            [2] And, this may not be something that's easy to measure.

            > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
            > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate
            > in the 2 meter band.

            Seems to be a reasonable band choice. Will the dropped payload
            have a GPS unit on it, or is it to be found with RDF (Radio
            Direction Finding) only? I'm assuming that the dropped payload
            will float down via parachute (Glider?).

            > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
            > take-off and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up
            > (whichever comes first).

            Should be some interesting pictures/video.

            > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from
            > ground and hopefully recovered intact.

            What's the drop mechanism?

            > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally
            > we need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.

            Once you have some ideas, it may be a good idea to test some of
            the packages by tossing the payload in a deep freezer to see how
            much voltage drop you get at decreased temperatures. That may also
            give you an indication of how well any thermal insulation is working
            for the payload package.

            For that matter, it might also be a good way to test the
            drop/cutdown mechanism, since mechanical things tend to not work
            well at the extreme cold temperatures found at altitude (and, we'd
            all hate to see your payload floating out over the Atlantic, never
            to be seen again!).

            > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
            > appreciated.
            >
            > cheers David ve3bbn

            In any case, best of luck to your launch.

            Dave
            WA4QAL
          • David
            Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will certainly be our choice, thanks. Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 21, 2007
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              Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will certainly be our choice, thanks.
              Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2 meter size, and is there a prefered material which is very light to stay within our payload weight?
               
              thanks again Mike es cheers
               
              David ve3bbn
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:58 AM
              Subject: Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch

              Hi David,

              GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
              of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?

              LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
              payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
              tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
              CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
              BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
              at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
              bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
              sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.

              I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
              conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
              the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
              landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
              www.eoss.org.

              73 de Mike W5VSI
              Prez EOSS

              David Wilson wrote:
              > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
              > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
              > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
              > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
              > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will consist of
              > battery level and
              > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter link.
              > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
              > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate in the
              > 2 meter band.
              > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the take-off
              > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
              > comes first).
              > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from ground
              > and hopefully recovered intact.
              > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we
              > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
              > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
              > appreciated.
              >
              > cheers David ve3bbn
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net Tel: 303-979-4899
              "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein

            • Mike Manes
              Hi David, Our chutes are made from ripstop nylon - not sure of the denier. A 2m diameter chute should weigh no more than about 500 grams, tho. And be sure
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 21, 2007
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                Hi David,

                Our 'chutes are made from ripstop nylon - not sure of the denier. A
                2m diameter 'chute should weigh no more than about 500 grams, tho.
                And be sure that there's a generous vent at the apex: 10-15 cm diameter
                should do it OK. This helps prevent instability at high altitude.
                Use dayglow orange material which enhances visibility during descent
                and on the ground. Some of our 'chutes have alternating orange and
                white gores.

                The apex MUST have some means of attaching the balloon lift line as
                well, and that should be plenty strong.

                And be sure to fit a spreader ring about halfway up the shroud lines
                to ensure proper 'chute opening. Ours use 7 mm diameter wicker, but
                any lightweight flexible material will do. A hula hoop is suitable
                for larger 'chutes - or maybe you could use a cut-down hoop?

                You can probably find a suitable ready-made parachute from model
                rocket suppliers. Spherachute (sic?) here in Colorado has made
                several for EOSS. You may have to add or enlarge the vent and
                add a spreader ring, tho.

                73 de Mike W5VSI

                David wrote:
                > Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will
                > certainly be our choice, thanks.
                > Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2 meter
                > size, and is there a prefered material which is very light to stay
                > within our payload weight?
                >
                > thanks again Mike es cheers
                >
                > David ve3bbn
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@...>
                > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:58 AM
                > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch
                >
                > Hi David,
                >
                > GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
                > of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?
                >
                > LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
                > payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
                > tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
                > CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
                > BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
                > at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
                > bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
                > sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.
                >
                > I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
                > conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
                > the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
                > landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
                > www.eoss.org.
                >
                > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                > Prez EOSS
                >
                > David Wilson wrote:
                > > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                > > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                > > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                > > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
                > > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will
                > consist of
                > > battery level and
                > > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                > link.
                > > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                > > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate in the
                > > 2 meter band.
                > > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                > take-off
                > > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
                > > comes first).
                > > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from ground
                > > and hopefully recovered intact.
                > > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we
                > > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                > > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                > > appreciated.
                > >
                > > cheers David ve3bbn
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > Mike Manes manes@... <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net> Tel:
                > 303-979-4899
                > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                > Einstein
                >
                >

                --
                Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
              • PAUL VERHAGE
                The camera store is S&G Electronics. Since the batteries are surplus, they may not be in stock now. Paul ... Hi David, GL on your first flight! Sounds as
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
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                  The camera store is S&G Electronics. Since the batteries are surplus, they may not be in stock now.

                  Paul

                  >>> Mike Manes <manes@...> 3/21/2007 12:58:42 am >>>
                  Hi David,

                  GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
                  of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?

                  LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
                  payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
                  tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
                  CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
                  BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
                  at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
                  bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
                  sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.

                  I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
                  conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
                  the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
                  landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
                  www.eoss.org.

                  73 de Mike W5VSI
                  Prez EOSS

                  David Wilson wrote:
                  > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                  > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                  > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                  > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
                  > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will consist of
                  > battery level and
                  > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter link.
                  > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                  > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate in the
                  > 2 meter band.
                  > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the take-off
                  > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
                  > comes first).
                  > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from ground
                  > and hopefully recovered intact.
                  > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we
                  > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                  > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                  > appreciated.
                  >
                  > cheers David ve3bbn
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                  "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein





                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • David
                  Hi Mike, thank you for the info on the parachute. it was very informative. I knew nothing about the vent hole at the apex adding stability. Yes the hoop is
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Mike, thank you for the info on the parachute. it was very informative. I knew nothing about the vent hole at the apex adding stability. Yes the hoop is certainly a virtue that would ensure it deplores immediately.
                    Thanks again, and it is info like this that will make the first launch a winner.
                     
                    cheers david ve3bbn
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:06 PM
                    Subject: Re: [GPSL] Parachutes, etc

                    Hi David,

                    Our 'chutes are made from ripstop nylon - not sure of the denier. A
                    2m diameter 'chute should weigh no more than about 500 grams, tho.
                    And be sure that there's a generous vent at the apex: 10-15 cm diameter
                    should do it OK. This helps prevent instability at high altitude.
                    Use dayglow orange material which enhances visibility during descent
                    and on the ground. Some of our 'chutes have alternating orange and
                    white gores.

                    The apex MUST have some means of attaching the balloon lift line as
                    well, and that should be plenty strong.

                    And be sure to fit a spreader ring about halfway up the shroud lines
                    to ensure proper 'chute opening. Ours use 7 mm diameter wicker, but
                    any lightweight flexible material will do. A hula hoop is suitable
                    for larger 'chutes - or maybe you could use a cut-down hoop?

                    You can probably find a suitable ready-made parachute from model
                    rocket suppliers. Spherachute (sic?) here in Colorado has made
                    several for EOSS. You may have to add or enlarge the vent and
                    add a spreader ring, tho.

                    73 de Mike W5VSI

                    David wrote:
                    > Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will
                    > certainly be our choice, thanks.
                    > Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2 meter
                    > size, and is there a prefered material which is very light to stay
                    > within our payload weight?
                    >
                    > thanks again Mike es cheers
                    >
                    > David ve3bbn
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@attglobal. net>
                    > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                    > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:58 AM
                    > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch
                    >
                    > Hi David,
                    >
                    > GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
                    > of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?
                    >
                    > LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
                    > payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
                    > tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
                    > CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
                    > BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
                    > at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
                    > bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
                    > sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.
                    >
                    > I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
                    > conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
                    > the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
                    > landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
                    > www.eoss.org.
                    >
                    > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                    > Prez EOSS
                    >
                    > David Wilson wrote:
                    > > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                    > > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                    > > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                    > > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
                    > > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will
                    > consist of
                    > > battery level and
                    > > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                    > link.
                    > > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                    > > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate in the
                    > > 2 meter band.
                    > > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                    > take-off
                    > > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
                    > > comes first).
                    > > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from ground
                    > > and hopefully recovered intact.
                    > > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally we
                    > > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                    > > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                    > > appreciated.
                    > >
                    > > cheers David ve3bbn
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net> Tel:
                    > 303-979-4899
                    > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                    > Einstein
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net Tel: 303-979-4899
                    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein

                  • PAUL VERHAGE
                    Just a comment. ... Yep, I hate it when my parachute doesn t deplore. ;) Paul
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
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                      Just a comment.

                      > Yes the hoop is certainly a virtue that would ensure it deplores immediately.

                      Yep, I hate it when my parachute doesn't deplore.
                      ;)

                      Paul
                    • David Wilson
                      ... fart at the same time, I hate when that happens hi hi . cheers David ve3bbn ... immediately.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "PAUL VERHAGE" <paul.verhage@...> wrote:
                        >Hi Hi sorry about that Paul, I meant to say deploy but I had a brain
                        fart at the same time, I hate when that happens hi hi .

                        cheers David ve3bbn

                        > Just a comment.
                        >
                        > > Yes the hoop is certainly a virtue that would ensure it deplores
                        immediately.
                        >
                        > Yep, I hate it when my parachute doesn't deplore.
                        > ;)
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                      • David Wilson
                        Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in answering some of your questions. I have been considering a different type of drop off mechanism. Though it may not work in the
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in answering some of your questions.
                          I have been considering a different type of drop off mechanism.
                          Though it may not work in the temperatures your talking about I'll
                          just explain it any way. I was thinking if a sqibb interlaced in the
                          nylon rope ,covered with styrofoam. The signal from the ground would
                          be 5 pulses one second apart and all the available battery voltage
                          would be employed in burning through it. at this same time the
                          recovery Tx would be turned on for the guys on the ground to start
                          moving. A small sulfur charge wrapped around the squibb would add fuel
                          for the burn through ?? what do you think ??

                          cheers David ve3bbn



                          -- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "D" <wa4qal@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "David Wilson" <ve3bbn@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                          > > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                          > > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                          > > together our first package.
                          >
                          > Cool!
                          >
                          > One of the sticky points may be consideration of what happens
                          > if your balloon drifts across the US border. I think that it
                          > would need to comply with the US FAR (Federal Air Regulations) Part
                          > 101 [3]:
                          >
                          >
                          <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=8b5584c0cf53c0a4f4a5615491e1be66&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.15.1.9.1>
                          >
                          > Do you know what the Canadian equivalent is (and have a link) [4]?
                          >
                          > [3] And, one certainly hopes that it wouldn't land in Boston, since
                          > it would almost certainly be regarded as a terrorist device and
                          > exploded. :-( In any case, it probably would be a good idea to
                          > label the package really well.
                          >
                          > [4] This is more than just idle questioning, since I have relatives
                          > in Canada, and might want to expose them to the joys of balloon
                          > launching one of these days.
                          >
                          > > The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity and a lift-off weight of 5
                          > > pounds. The payload telemetry will consist of battery level and
                          > > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                          > > link.
                          >
                          > Sounds like a good start. Some other things you may want to think
                          > about for future launches would be things like battery temperature
                          > (which would indicate how well your insulation is working),
                          > illumination levels (How much brighter does it get as you go
                          > up [1]?), and humidity levels (although this is probably moot once
                          > the temperature drops below freezing) [2].
                          >
                          > [1] This will probably require an integrating sphere to minimize
                          > problems with light directionality. It might also be interesting
                          > to measure UV versus visible (versus infrared?) levels, too.
                          >
                          > [2] And, this may not be something that's easy to measure.
                          >
                          > > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                          > > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate
                          > > in the 2 meter band.
                          >
                          > Seems to be a reasonable band choice. Will the dropped payload
                          > have a GPS unit on it, or is it to be found with RDF (Radio
                          > Direction Finding) only? I'm assuming that the dropped payload
                          > will float down via parachute (Glider?).
                          >
                          > > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                          > > take-off and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up
                          > > (whichever comes first).
                          >
                          > Should be some interesting pictures/video.
                          >
                          > > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from
                          > > ground and hopefully recovered intact.
                          >
                          > What's the drop mechanism?
                          >
                          > > I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally
                          > > we need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                          >
                          > Once you have some ideas, it may be a good idea to test some of
                          > the packages by tossing the payload in a deep freezer to see how
                          > much voltage drop you get at decreased temperatures. That may also
                          > give you an indication of how well any thermal insulation is working
                          > for the payload package.
                          >
                          > For that matter, it might also be a good way to test the
                          > drop/cutdown mechanism, since mechanical things tend to not work
                          > well at the extreme cold temperatures found at altitude (and, we'd
                          > all hate to see your payload floating out over the Atlantic, never
                          > to be seen again!).
                          >
                          > > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                          > > appreciated.
                          > >
                          > > cheers David ve3bbn
                          >
                          > In any case, best of luck to your launch.
                          >
                          > Dave
                          > WA4QAL
                          >
                        • Harry M
                          If you are going to use a pyro squib you will have to use something that has its own oxidizer. There is no O2 at altitude. I used a black powder squib twice
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            If you are going to use a pyro squib you will have to use something that has
                            its own oxidizer. There is no O2 at altitude. I used a black powder squib
                            twice with good results. The draw backs are, I had to use a new one
                            everytime, if it fails for some reason and fires on the ground, you could
                            cause a grass/forest or building fire and making and/or handling
                            pyrotechnics can be very hazardous to your health and maybe illegal
                            depending on your laws. I am now using a nichrome wire burner that is
                            contained with no heat or fire emitted to the outside. It is a whole lot
                            safer and is reusable.

                            73 Harry


                            -----
                            Harry Mueller - KC5TRB - Tulsa
                            Oklahoma Research Balloons
                            Home Page - http://members.cox.net/hhm_74775/orb/
                            Discussion - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oklahoma_research_balloons/join
                            -----




                            > Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in answering some of your questions.
                            > I have been considering a different type of drop off mechanism.
                          • Mike Manes
                            Hi David, De nada. You may be interested in downloading a copy of EOSS s Small Balloon Handbook from eoss.org. It s kinda long in tooth, but you may find
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 22, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi David,
                              De nada. You may be interested in downloading a copy of EOSS's Small
                              Balloon Handbook from eoss.org. It's kinda long in tooth, but you may
                              find some useful tips in there anyway. Just hit the Search button on
                              the home page and enter "handbook".
                              73 de Mike W5VSI

                              David wrote:
                              > Hi Mike, thank you for the info on the parachute. it was very
                              > informative. I knew nothing about the vent hole at the apex adding
                              > stability. Yes the hoop is certainly a virtue that would ensure it
                              > deplores immediately.
                              > Thanks again, and it is info like this that will make the first launch a
                              > winner.
                              >
                              > cheers david ve3bbn
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@...>
                              > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                              > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:06 PM
                              > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Parachutes, etc
                              >
                              > Hi David,
                              >
                              > Our 'chutes are made from ripstop nylon - not sure of the denier. A
                              > 2m diameter 'chute should weigh no more than about 500 grams, tho.
                              > And be sure that there's a generous vent at the apex: 10-15 cm diameter
                              > should do it OK. This helps prevent instability at high altitude.
                              > Use dayglow orange material which enhances visibility during descent
                              > and on the ground. Some of our 'chutes have alternating orange and
                              > white gores.
                              >
                              > The apex MUST have some means of attaching the balloon lift line as
                              > well, and that should be plenty strong.
                              >
                              > And be sure to fit a spreader ring about halfway up the shroud lines
                              > to ensure proper 'chute opening. Ours use 7 mm diameter wicker, but
                              > any lightweight flexible material will do. A hula hoop is suitable
                              > for larger 'chutes - or maybe you could use a cut-down hoop?
                              >
                              > You can probably find a suitable ready-made parachute from model
                              > rocket suppliers. Spherachute (sic?) here in Colorado has made
                              > several for EOSS. You may have to add or enlarge the vent and
                              > add a spreader ring, tho.
                              >
                              > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                              >
                              > David wrote:
                              > > Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will
                              > > certainly be our choice, thanks.
                              > > Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2 meter
                              > > size, and is there a prefered material which is very light to stay
                              > > within our payload weight?
                              > >
                              > > thanks again Mike es cheers
                              > >
                              > > David ve3bbn
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@...
                              > <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net>>
                              > > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>>
                              > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:58 AM
                              > > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch
                              > >
                              > > Hi David,
                              > >
                              > > GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
                              > > of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?
                              > >
                              > > LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
                              > > payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
                              > > tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
                              > > CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
                              > > BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
                              > > at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
                              > > bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
                              > > sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.
                              > >
                              > > I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
                              > > conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
                              > > the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
                              > > landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
                              > > www.eoss.org.
                              > >
                              > > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                              > > Prez EOSS
                              > >
                              > > David Wilson wrote:
                              > > > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                              > > > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                              > > > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                              > > > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
                              > > > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will
                              > > consist of
                              > > > battery level and
                              > > > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                              > > link.
                              > > > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                              > > > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate
                              > in the
                              > > > 2 meter band.
                              > > > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                              > > take-off
                              > > > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
                              > > > comes first).
                              > > > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from
                              > ground
                              > > > and hopefully recovered intact.
                              > > > I am interested in the battery supply others are using.
                              > Naturally we
                              > > > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                              > > > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                              > > > appreciated.
                              > > >
                              > > > cheers David ve3bbn
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > --
                              > > Mike Manes manes@... <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net>
                              > <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net> Tel:
                              > > 303-979-4899
                              > > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                              > > Einstein
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Mike Manes manes@... <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net> Tel:
                              > 303-979-4899
                              > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                              > Einstein
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                              "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
                            • D
                              ... I can envision a couple of problems. The first is getting the fire started, and the second is getting the fire extinguished. There s almost no Oxygen at
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 23, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "David Wilson" <ve3bbn@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in answering some of your questions.
                                > I have been considering a different type of drop off mechanism.
                                > Though it may not work in the temperatures your talking about I'll
                                > just explain it any way. I was thinking if a sqibb interlaced in the
                                > nylon rope ,covered with styrofoam. The signal from the ground would
                                > be 5 pulses one second apart and all the available battery voltage
                                > would be employed in burning through it. at this same time the
                                > recovery Tx would be turned on for the guys on the ground to start
                                > moving. A small sulfur charge wrapped around the squibb would add fuel
                                > for the burn through ?? what do you think ??

                                I can envision a couple of problems. The first is getting the
                                fire started, and the second is getting the fire extinguished.

                                There's almost no Oxygen at altitude, so any pyrotechnic device
                                will have to contain it's own oxidizer (as one of the other guys
                                has already pointed out). One such material is gun-powder. However,
                                note that black gun powder has a nasty tendency, under certain
                                conditions, to explode rather than combust. And, you really don't
                                want an explosion, either at altitude or on the ground. Also, note
                                that black gun powder is shock sensitive, and static sensitive.
                                It's pretty awful stuff, and demands the utmost in respect and care
                                at all times.

                                Smokeless gun powder doesn't have most of these problems, although
                                it may be a little harder to ignite. However, you still have to
                                come up with a way to contain it (since it is a powder) that doesn't
                                form a pipe bomb if something goes wrong [1]!

                                [1] I've personally burned a quarter pound pile of smokeless powder
                                with no problems; it just sits there and flames rather vigoursly
                                (but, make sure it's unconfined!) [2]. I wouldn't even think of
                                trying to burn an ounce of black powder, due to the explosion
                                possibility.

                                [2] This is, by no means, an endorsement of anyone trying this
                                themselves, especially without appropriate safety equipment and
                                training!

                                You might have better success with something such as a model rocket
                                engine, although finding one with a short enough burn time and
                                Isp may be a trick (since you don't really want to be flying the
                                payload around too much).

                                In any case, you'll need to worry about how to put the fire out,
                                once ignited, since a flaming payload wouldn't be anyone's idea of
                                fun! Sytrofoam is notorious for melting/burning in a manner
                                somewhat similar to napalm! You'd almost certainly have to pack
                                the pyrotechnic device in fiber glass, or some other non flammable
                                material (and, consider where the hot gases will go, too, since they
                                may ignite something).

                                I've seen (but don't have any personal experience with) what appears
                                to be a better device. That device consists of a small metal film
                                resistor which has the Nylon support line wrapped around it. To
                                operate it, it's connected across the battery, and immediately
                                overheats, softening/melting the Nylon support line, which results
                                in it breaking. That might be a LOT safer than having an actual
                                flame. Plus, there's not nearly the safety concerns about having
                                an armed pyrotechnic device laying on the ground (due to it failing
                                to fire when commanded), and what happens when the local population
                                attempts to cut the package open (to see if it contains any beer).

                                > cheers David ve3bbn

                                Dave
                                WA4QAL
                              • Harry M
                                Pyro and Ballooning Just a few comments so you don t think my previous comments come from a backyard pyro. I was a Firefighter for 27 years. Outside my
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 23, 2007
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                                  Pyro and Ballooning

                                  Just a few comments so you don't think my previous comments come from a
                                  backyard pyro. I was a Firefighter for 27 years. Outside my Firefighter job
                                  I have professional training and 15 years experience in the developement and
                                  use of black powder & composite rocket motors and formularies for explosives
                                  and pyrotechnics, ATF Class A,B,C,D. Unless you have professional training
                                  and experience I do not recommend experimenting with pyro at all. It's just
                                  not worth the risk!

                                  73 Harry


                                  -----
                                  Harry Mueller - KC5TRB - Tulsa
                                  Oklahoma Research Balloons
                                  Home Page - http://members.cox.net/hhm_74775/orb/
                                  Discussion - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oklahoma_research_balloons/join
                                  -----
                                • David
                                  thanks mike will do. cheers David ve3bbn ... From: Mike Manes To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [GPSL] Parachutes,
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 23, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    thanks mike will do.
                                     
                                    cheers David ve3bbn
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:49 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [GPSL] Parachutes, etc

                                    Hi David,
                                    De nada. You may be interested in downloading a copy of EOSS's Small
                                    Balloon Handbook from eoss.org. It's kinda long in tooth, but you may
                                    find some useful tips in there anyway. Just hit the Search button on
                                    the home page and enter "handbook".
                                    73 de Mike W5VSI

                                    David wrote:
                                    > Hi Mike, thank you for the info on the parachute. it was very
                                    > informative. I knew nothing about the vent hole at the apex adding
                                    > stability. Yes the hoop is certainly a virtue that would ensure it
                                    > deplores immediately.
                                    > Thanks again, and it is info like this that will make the first launch a
                                    > winner.
                                    >
                                    > cheers david ve3bbn
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@attglobal. net>
                                    > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                                    > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:06 PM
                                    > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Parachutes, etc
                                    >
                                    > Hi David,
                                    >
                                    > Our 'chutes are made from ripstop nylon - not sure of the denier. A
                                    > 2m diameter 'chute should weigh no more than about 500 grams, tho.
                                    > And be sure that there's a generous vent at the apex: 10-15 cm diameter
                                    > should do it OK. This helps prevent instability at high altitude.
                                    > Use dayglow orange material which enhances visibility during descent
                                    > and on the ground. Some of our 'chutes have alternating orange and
                                    > white gores.
                                    >
                                    > The apex MUST have some means of attaching the balloon lift line as
                                    > well, and that should be plenty strong.
                                    >
                                    > And be sure to fit a spreader ring about halfway up the shroud lines
                                    > to ensure proper 'chute opening. Ours use 7 mm diameter wicker, but
                                    > any lightweight flexible material will do. A hula hoop is suitable
                                    > for larger 'chutes - or maybe you could use a cut-down hoop?
                                    >
                                    > You can probably find a suitable ready-made parachute from model
                                    > rocket suppliers. Spherachute (sic?) here in Colorado has made
                                    > several for EOSS. You may have to add or enlarge the vent and
                                    > add a spreader ring, tho.
                                    >
                                    > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                                    >
                                    > David wrote:
                                    > > Hi Mike nice of you to drop in. FB on the LiSO2 cells.That will
                                    > > certainly be our choice, thanks.
                                    > > Great on the parachute also, yes we will probably go for the 2 meter
                                    > > size, and is there a prefered material which is very light to stay
                                    > > within our payload weight?
                                    > >
                                    > > thanks again Mike es cheers
                                    > >
                                    > > David ve3bbn
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@attglobal. net
                                    > <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net>>
                                    > > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                    > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>>
                                    > > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:58 AM
                                    > > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Balloon Launch
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi David,
                                    > >
                                    > > GL on your first flight! Sounds as though you have the right set
                                    > > of beacons, but what freqs will they be on?
                                    > >
                                    > > LiSO2 primary cells have proven to operate quite well in balloon
                                    > > payloads. They have excellent energy density and low-temperature
                                    > > tolerance compared to other chemistries. You can buy them new as
                                    > > CR123 Li camera batteries, or more bang for the buck as surplus
                                    > > BA-5513/U batteries - the individual cells operate at about 2.7
                                    > > at 500 mA load, and can be trusted to give you at least 4000 mAh. Not
                                    > > bad for 85 gm per cell and US$2 per cell. A camera store in NYC
                                    > > sells them, but can't recall the name - try Googling BA-5513/U.
                                    > >
                                    > > I assume that you have a parachute for your descent? A 1.8m diameter
                                    > > conical should be about right for that payload. If you want to get
                                    > > the payloads back, recommend deploying a recovery team around the
                                    > > landing site as predicted by WinBallTrack, downloadable from
                                    > > www.eoss.org.
                                    > >
                                    > > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                                    > > Prez EOSS
                                    > >
                                    > > David Wilson wrote:
                                    > > > Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                                    > > > found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                                    > > > Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                                    > > > together our first package. The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity
                                    > > > and a lift-off weight of 5 ponds.The payload telemetry will
                                    > > consist of
                                    > > > battery level and
                                    > > > outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                                    > > link.
                                    > > > There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                                    > > > detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate
                                    > in the
                                    > > > 2 meter band.
                                    > > > There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                                    > > take-off
                                    > > > and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up (whichever
                                    > > > comes first).
                                    > > > The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from
                                    > ground
                                    > > > and hopefully recovered intact.
                                    > > > I am interested in the battery supply others are using.
                                    > Naturally we
                                    > > > need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                                    > > > what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                                    > > > appreciated.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > cheers David ve3bbn
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net>
                                    > <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net> Tel:
                                    > > 303-979-4899
                                    > > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                                    > > Einstein
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net> Tel:
                                    > 303-979-4899
                                    > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                                    > Einstein
                                    >
                                    >

                                    --
                                    Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net Tel: 303-979-4899
                                    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein

                                  • Mike Manes
                                    Hi David, A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire, as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the nylon lift line and insulated
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 23, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi David,

                                      A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire, as often
                                      found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the nylon lift line and
                                      insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is effective. Just hit it with the
                                      full output of a 2x or 3x series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the
                                      line will melt and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                      required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex shards to
                                      tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to time. The CR123's
                                      are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a new line into the burner
                                      takes about 15 tedious minutes.

                                      EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year with
                                      excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/about/ and hardware.
                                      Latest version is armed at about 70K' by a surplus RAOB anaeroid cell
                                      and weighs in at 168 gm complete with commandable backup release. Re-
                                      rigging takes about 2 sec once a new ring is tied onto the lift line.

                                      73 de Mike W5VSI

                                      David Wilson wrote:
                                      > Hi Dave, sorry for the delay in answering some of your questions.
                                      > I have been considering a different type of drop off mechanism.
                                      > Though it may not work in the temperatures your talking about I'll
                                      > just explain it any way. I was thinking if a sqibb interlaced in the
                                      > nylon rope ,covered with styrofoam. The signal from the ground would
                                      > be 5 pulses one second apart and all the available battery voltage
                                      > would be employed in burning through it. at this same time the
                                      > recovery Tx would be turned on for the guys on the ground to start
                                      > moving. A small sulfur charge wrapped around the squibb would add fuel
                                      > for the burn through ?? what do you think ??
                                      >
                                      > cheers David ve3bbn
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "D" <wa4qal@...> wrote:
                                      >> --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, "David Wilson" <ve3bbn@> wrote:
                                      >>> Greetings all, It was great to hear that the KC8UCH flight may be
                                      >>> found soon. I belong to a Canadian ARC known as NPARC (Niagara
                                      >>> Peninsula Amateur Radio Club)and we are in the process of putting
                                      >>> together our first package.
                                      >> Cool!
                                      >>
                                      >> One of the sticky points may be consideration of what happens
                                      >> if your balloon drifts across the US border. I think that it
                                      >> would need to comply with the US FAR (Federal Air Regulations) Part
                                      >> 101 [3]:
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      > <http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=8b5584c0cf53c0a4f4a5615491e1be66&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.15&idno=14#14:2.0.1.3.15.1.9.1>
                                      >> Do you know what the Canadian equivalent is (and have a link) [4]?
                                      >>
                                      >> [3] And, one certainly hopes that it wouldn't land in Boston, since
                                      >> it would almost certainly be regarded as a terrorist device and
                                      >> exploded. :-( In any case, it probably would be a good idea to
                                      >> label the package really well.
                                      >>
                                      >> [4] This is more than just idle questioning, since I have relatives
                                      >> in Canada, and might want to expose them to the joys of balloon
                                      >> launching one of these days.
                                      >>
                                      >>> The balloon will have 115 cuft capacity and a lift-off weight of 5
                                      >>> pounds. The payload telemetry will consist of battery level and
                                      >>> outside temperature, which will be sent to the ground on a 2meter
                                      >>> link.
                                      >> Sounds like a good start. Some other things you may want to think
                                      >> about for future launches would be things like battery temperature
                                      >> (which would indicate how well your insulation is working),
                                      >> illumination levels (How much brighter does it get as you go
                                      >> up [1]?), and humidity levels (although this is probably moot once
                                      >> the temperature drops below freezing) [2].
                                      >>
                                      >> [1] This will probably require an integrating sphere to minimize
                                      >> problems with light directionality. It might also be interesting
                                      >> to measure UV versus visible (versus infrared?) levels, too.
                                      >>
                                      >> [2] And, this may not be something that's easy to measure.
                                      >>
                                      >>> There will be a second FM transmitter sending the pulses for
                                      >>> detection when the payload is jettisoned. It will also operate
                                      >>> in the 2 meter band.
                                      >> Seems to be a reasonable band choice. Will the dropped payload
                                      >> have a GPS unit on it, or is it to be found with RDF (Radio
                                      >> Direction Finding) only? I'm assuming that the dropped payload
                                      >> will float down via parachute (Glider?).
                                      >>
                                      >>> There will also be a digital camera set to take a video of the
                                      >>> take-off and run until the memory is full or the unit freezes up
                                      >>> (whichever comes first).
                                      >> Should be some interesting pictures/video.
                                      >>
                                      >>> The payload will be dropped from the balloon on a signal from
                                      >>> ground and hopefully recovered intact.
                                      >> What's the drop mechanism?
                                      >>
                                      >>> I am interested in the battery supply others are using. Naturally
                                      >>> we need as much mah as we can get with the least weight.
                                      >> Once you have some ideas, it may be a good idea to test some of
                                      >> the packages by tossing the payload in a deep freezer to see how
                                      >> much voltage drop you get at decreased temperatures. That may also
                                      >> give you an indication of how well any thermal insulation is working
                                      >> for the payload package.
                                      >>
                                      >> For that matter, it might also be a good way to test the
                                      >> drop/cutdown mechanism, since mechanical things tend to not work
                                      >> well at the extreme cold temperatures found at altitude (and, we'd
                                      >> all hate to see your payload floating out over the Atlantic, never
                                      >> to be seen again!).
                                      >>
                                      >>> what type have others used? Any help and input would be greatly
                                      >>> appreciated.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> cheers David ve3bbn
                                      >> In any case, best of luck to your launch.
                                      >>
                                      >> Dave
                                      >> WA4QAL
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      --
                                      Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                                      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
                                    • Mike Manes
                                      Hi Harry, FYI, EOSS refused to fly a student payload that planned to fire off four Estes D engines at altitude because of the risk of igniting a grass fire if
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 23, 2007
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                                        Hi Harry,

                                        FYI, EOSS refused to fly a student payload that planned to fire off
                                        four Estes D engines at altitude because of the risk of igniting a
                                        grass fire if the ignition controller messed up. That was a couple
                                        of summers ago, when our Gov declared "Colorado's on fire!".

                                        The NiCr burners can get orange hot, so it's a good idea to enclose
                                        'em in an insulating housing with a fire-resistant cover - we use
                                        Al duct tape over styrofoam. We did encounter an accidental burn
                                        during prelaunch some time ago, and all that came out was a plume
                                        of smoke.

                                        Harry M wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Pyro and Ballooning
                                        >
                                        > Just a few comments so you don't think my previous comments come from a
                                        > backyard pyro. I was a Firefighter for 27 years. Outside my Firefighter job
                                        > I have professional training and 15 years experience in the developement and
                                        > use of black powder & composite rocket motors and formularies for explosives
                                        > and pyrotechnics, ATF Class A,B,C,D. Unless you have professional training
                                        > and experience I do not recommend experimenting with pyro at all. It's just
                                        > not worth the risk!
                                        >
                                        > 73 Harry
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----
                                        > Harry Mueller - KC5TRB - Tulsa
                                        > Oklahoma Research Balloons
                                        > Home Page - http://members.cox.net/hhm_74775/orb/
                                        > Discussion - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oklahoma_research_balloons/join
                                        > -----
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >

                                        --
                                        Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                                        "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
                                      • Joe
                                        Hi David and all, ... We here have never seemed to have this tangle problem. I m thinking of two possible reasons. We have always used an oversized shroud
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 24, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi David and all,

                                          Mike Manes wrote:

                                          >Hi David,
                                          >

                                          >Tension is
                                          >required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex shards to
                                          >tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to time.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          We here have never seemed to have this tangle problem. I'm thinking of
                                          two possible reasons.

                                          We have always used an oversized shroud ring. as has been discussed
                                          before, like a 18 to 24 inch diameter one. the shroud lines are
                                          practically parallel to the chute itself. This i honestly don't think
                                          is the cure. But,,

                                          We have always had a very LONG line between the chute top and the
                                          balloon itself. This we have done not in thought of the tangle problem
                                          (since we never even thought of it, since it's never happened to us)
                                          But we've always done it for the stability of total flight train . you
                                          know to minimize the swinging side to side motion. the length maybe has
                                          ever been at the shortest of 20 feet or so.. and has been as long as
                                          close to 100 feet. But this was done to slow the pendulum effect. but it
                                          may have kept the latex shards away too.

                                          Plus it's made recovery much simpler too if a payload is stuck in a
                                          tree, 90% of the time the end with the leftover of the balloon is
                                          reachable and it's simply pulled down!

                                          joe
                                          Near Space Sciences
                                        • Rick von Glahn
                                          Just to send the correct URL: http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm 73 -- Rick, NØKKZ ... ...snip...
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 25, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Just to send the correct URL:

                                            http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm

                                            73 -- Rick, NØKKZ



                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: GPSL@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com] On
                                            > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                            > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                            > To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                            >
                                            > Hi David,
                                            >
                                            > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                            > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                            > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                            > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                            > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                            > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                            > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                            > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                            > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                            > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                            >
                                            > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                            > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/about/
                                            > and hardware.


                                            ...snip...
                                          • David
                                            Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on planet earth. Thanks Rick for the site. cheers David ve3bbn ... From: Rick von Glahn To:
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 26, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on planet earth.
                                               Thanks Rick for the site.
                                               
                                              cheers David ve3bbn
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 2:09 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch

                                              Just to send the correct URL:

                                              http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm

                                              73 -- Rick, NØKKZ

                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: GPSL@yahoogroups. com [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com] On
                                              > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                              > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                              > To: GPSL@yahoogroups. com
                                              > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                              >
                                              > Hi David,
                                              >
                                              > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                              > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                              > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                              > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                              > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                              > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                              > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                              > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                              > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                              > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                              >
                                              > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                              > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/ about/
                                              > and hardware.

                                              ...snip...

                                            • Mike Manes
                                              Awwrr .. shux! Well, thanks, David. But I think you ll find that there s a lot of ingenuity being applied by ALL the folks doing ARHAB - it s yet to become
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Mar 26, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Awwrr .. shux! Well, thanks, David. But I think you'll find that
                                                there's a lot of ingenuity being applied by ALL the folks doing
                                                ARHAB - it's yet to become PnP or an appliance operation by any
                                                stretch of the imagination! We're eager to hear about your own
                                                innovations soon.

                                                And sri abt the bum URL - thanks to Rick for getting it right --
                                                as ever!

                                                73 de Mike W5VSI

                                                David wrote:
                                                > Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on
                                                > planet earth.
                                                > Thanks Rick for the site.
                                                >
                                                > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > *From:* Rick von Glahn <mailto:rick@...>
                                                > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2007 2:09 AM
                                                > *Subject:* RE: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                >
                                                > Just to send the correct URL:
                                                >
                                                > http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm
                                                > <http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm>
                                                >
                                                > 73 -- Rick, NØKKZ
                                                >
                                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > From: GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>] On
                                                > > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                                > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                                > > To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi David,
                                                > >
                                                > > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                                > > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                                > > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                                > > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                                > > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                                > > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                                > > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                                > > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                                > > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                                > > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                                > >
                                                > > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                                > > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/about/
                                                > > and hardware.
                                                >
                                                > ...snip...
                                                >
                                                >

                                                --
                                                Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                                                "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
                                              • David
                                                Yes I am sure there is a great amount of expertise in the group. My payload is all homebrew, will send pix later if it is ok to do so . cheers David ve3bbn ...
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Mar 27, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Yes I am sure there is a great amount of expertise in the group.
                                                   My payload is all homebrew, will send pix later if it is ok to do so .
                                                   
                                                  cheers David ve3bbn
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:24 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch

                                                  Awwrr .. shux! Well, thanks, David. But I think you'll find that
                                                  there's a lot of ingenuity being applied by ALL the folks doing
                                                  ARHAB - it's yet to become PnP or an appliance operation by any
                                                  stretch of the imagination! We're eager to hear about your own
                                                  innovations soon.

                                                  And sri abt the bum URL - thanks to Rick for getting it right --
                                                  as ever!

                                                  73 de Mike W5VSI

                                                  David wrote:
                                                  > Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on
                                                  > planet earth.
                                                  > Thanks Rick for the site.
                                                  >
                                                  > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > *From:* Rick von Glahn <mailto:rick@fastmail. us>
                                                  > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                                                  > *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2007 2:09 AM
                                                  > *Subject:* RE: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                  >
                                                  > Just to send the correct URL:
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm
                                                  > <http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm>
                                                  >
                                                  > 73 -- Rick, NØKKZ
                                                  >
                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > From: GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                                                  > [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>] On
                                                  > > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                                  > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                                  > > To: GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi David,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                                  > > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                                  > > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                                  > > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                                  > > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                                  > > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                                  > > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                                  > > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                                  > > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                                  > > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                                  > > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/ about/
                                                  > > and hardware.
                                                  >
                                                  > ...snip...
                                                  >
                                                  >

                                                  --
                                                  Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net Tel: 303-979-4899
                                                  "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein

                                                • Mike Manes
                                                  Hi David, Since Payload s R Us still hasn t gone international, no wonder you have to homebrew em :=P (fact is, ARHAB and the shorter microwaves are about
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Mar 27, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hi David,

                                                    Since Payload's 'R Us still hasn't gone international, no wonder you
                                                    have to homebrew 'em :=P (fact is, ARHAB and the shorter microwaves
                                                    are about the only remaining homebrew driven aspect of ham radio).

                                                    Since I still have dialup i'net service, pack the pix down as 25%
                                                    jpegs and the email under 1 meg. Or maybe you have a web site
                                                    where you could post 'em for all this reflector to peek at?

                                                    73 de Mike W5VSI

                                                    David wrote:
                                                    > Yes I am sure there is a great amount of expertise in the group.
                                                    > My payload is all homebrew, will send pix later if it is ok to do so .
                                                    >
                                                    > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                    >
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@...>
                                                    > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:24 AM
                                                    > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                    >
                                                    > Awwrr .. shux! Well, thanks, David. But I think you'll find that
                                                    > there's a lot of ingenuity being applied by ALL the folks doing
                                                    > ARHAB - it's yet to become PnP or an appliance operation by any
                                                    > stretch of the imagination! We're eager to hear about your own
                                                    > innovations soon.
                                                    >
                                                    > And sri abt the bum URL - thanks to Rick for getting it right --
                                                    > as ever!
                                                    >
                                                    > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                                                    >
                                                    > David wrote:
                                                    > > Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on
                                                    > > planet earth.
                                                    > > Thanks Rick for the site.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > *From:* Rick von Glahn <mailto:rick@...
                                                    > <mailto:rick%40fastmail.us>>
                                                    > > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                                    > > *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2007 2:09 AM
                                                    > > *Subject:* RE: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Just to send the correct URL:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm
                                                    > <http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm>
                                                    > > <http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm
                                                    > <http://www.eoss.org/hardware/quick_release/index.htm>>
                                                    > >
                                                    > > 73 -- Rick, NØKKZ
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > From: GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                                    > > [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>>] On
                                                    > > > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                                    > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                                    > > > To: GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups.com <mailto:GPSL%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Hi David,
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                                    > > > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                                    > > > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                                    > > > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                                    > > > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                                    > > > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                                    > > > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                                    > > > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                                    > > > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                                    > > > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                                    > > > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/about/
                                                    > > > and hardware.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > ...snip...
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Mike Manes manes@... <mailto:manes%40attglobal.net> Tel:
                                                    > 303-979-4899
                                                    > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                                                    > Einstein
                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    --
                                                    Mike Manes manes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                                                    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein
                                                  • David
                                                    Hi Mike, I ll try to get them down as much as I can. I hbrew everything I use, I think I m just hung up on building hi hi . I have just finished a Spectrum
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Mar 28, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi Mike, I'll try to get them down as much as I can. I hbrew everything I use, I think I'm just hung up on building hi hi .
                                                      I have just finished a Spectrum analyzer for 0 to 30 mhz. the display is fantastic.
                                                      Can even see the beacons down below 500khz. I am basically a HF builder and operator mostly on 80m. My Tx is built with 7 metal tubes and the amplifier is an 813. The Rx covers 3 chassis has a 50 ft bandspread for only 250 khz and a bandpass of only 80 hz, no xtals only tuned circuits with 1pf coupling (very hi Q), and has 42 metal tubes in it.
                                                        Enough of this old stuff, hi hi.
                                                       
                                                      cheers David ve3bbn 
                                                       
                                                      Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:38 PM
                                                      Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch

                                                      Hi David,

                                                      Since Payload's 'R Us still hasn't gone international, no wonder you
                                                      have to homebrew 'em :=P (fact is, ARHAB and the shorter microwaves
                                                      are about the only remaining homebrew driven aspect of ham radio).

                                                      Since I still have dialup i'net service, pack the pix down as 25%
                                                      jpegs and the email under 1 meg. Or maybe you have a web site
                                                      where you could post 'em for all this reflector to peek at?

                                                      73 de Mike W5VSI

                                                      David wrote:
                                                      > Yes I am sure there is a great amount of expertise in the group.
                                                      > My payload is all homebrew, will send pix later if it is ok to do so .
                                                      >
                                                      > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                      >
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > *From:* Mike Manes <mailto:manes@attglobal. net>
                                                      > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com>
                                                      > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:24 AM
                                                      > *Subject:* Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                      >
                                                      > Awwrr .. shux! Well, thanks, David. But I think you'll find that
                                                      > there's a lot of ingenuity being applied by ALL the folks doing
                                                      > ARHAB - it's yet to become PnP or an appliance operation by any
                                                      > stretch of the imagination! We're eager to hear about your own
                                                      > innovations soon.
                                                      >
                                                      > And sri abt the bum URL - thanks to Rick for getting it right --
                                                      > as ever!
                                                      >
                                                      > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                                                      >
                                                      > David wrote:
                                                      > > Fantastic device Mike, very well done. Ingenuity is still alive on
                                                      > > planet earth.
                                                      > > Thanks Rick for the site.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > cheers David ve3bbn
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > > *From:* Rick von Glahn <mailto:rick@fastmail. us
                                                      > <mailto:rick% 40fastmail. us>>
                                                      > > *To:* GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                      > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>>
                                                      > > *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2007 2:09 AM
                                                      > > *Subject:* RE: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Just to send the correct URL:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm
                                                      > <http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm>
                                                      > > <http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm
                                                      > <http://www.eoss. org/hardware/ quick_release/ index.htm>>
                                                      > >
                                                      > > 73 -- Rick, NØKKZ
                                                      > >
                                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                      > > > From: GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                      > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>>
                                                      > > [mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                      > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>>] On
                                                      > > > Behalf Of Mike Manes
                                                      > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:15 PM
                                                      > > > To: GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                                      > <mailto:GPSL@yahoogroups. com <mailto:GPSL% 40yahoogroups. com>>
                                                      > > > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: Balloon Launch
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Hi David,
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > A 1 or 2 ohm length of #28 or #30 AWG NiCr (nichrome) wire,
                                                      > > > as often found in hair dryers, wrapped tightly around the
                                                      > > > nylon lift line and insulated by 1+ cm of styrofoam is
                                                      > > > effective. Just hit it with the full output of a 2x or 3x
                                                      > > > series of CR123 LiSO2 cells for 10 sec; the line will melt
                                                      > > > and separate under tension in about 4 sec. Tension is
                                                      > > > required, though, and 4 sec is time enough for burst latex
                                                      > > > shards to tangle in your 'chute shroud lines from time to
                                                      > > > time. The CR123's are good for about 10 shots, and rigging a
                                                      > > > new line into the burner takes about 15 tedious minutes.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > EOSS has been using a mechanical fast release for over a year
                                                      > > > with excellent results. There a pix on www.eoss.org/ about/
                                                      > > > and hardware.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > ...snip...
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > --
                                                      > Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net <mailto:manes% 40attglobal. net> Tel:
                                                      > 303-979-4899
                                                      > "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A.
                                                      > Einstein
                                                      >
                                                      >

                                                      --
                                                      Mike Manes manes@attglobal. net Tel: 303-979-4899
                                                      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so." A. Einstein

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