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Re: [GPSL] Gold Fish in Near Space

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  • Mike Manes
    If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would keep the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 23, 2013
      If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
      quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
      keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
      in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
      pump.

      73 de Mike W5VSI

      On 7/23/13 7:42 AM, L. Paul Verhage wrote:
      >
      >
      > Mark mentioned that our high school teachers launched goldfish in their
      > BalloonSat. I was concerned about their survival chances, but glad to
      > see that it ended well.
      > This has me thinking. I was concerned that the water would lose
      > dissolved oxygen as the balloon ascended. The bottle had an air space
      > above the water and apparently was air tight enough that the air didn't
      > leak out so fish could continue to breathe.
      > I wasn't concerned about the temperature since the water has a large
      > thermal interia and would take too long to cool down significantly. I
      > also wasn't concerned about the BPC since the fish are nearly
      > neutrally bouyant in water. I think that means the fish will ride out
      > the motion of the water bottle without being slammed against the walls
      > of the water bottle.
      > Does my reasoning sound correct? The fish are safe from getting too cold
      > and safe from being slammed around the bottle. Their largest risk comes
      > from the water losing oxygen.
      >
      > --
      > Onwards and Upwards,
      > Paul
      >
      >
      >
    • Al Wolfe
      We actually tried something like this in high school biology class in about 1959. Put a goldfish in some water in a beaker under a bell jar. Sucked it down and
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 24, 2013
        We actually tried something like this in high school biology class in
        about 1959. Put a goldfish in some water in a beaker under a bell jar.
        Sucked it down and noticed the goldfish burping form time to time. When we
        let the air back in the fish sank like a rock but then climbed to the
        surface and gulped air. Happy ending - the fish survived.

        Looking back it was a probably a silly experiment but we did learn
        something about how a fish attains neutral buoyancy.

        Today PETA or ASPCA would probably get rather upset about this sort of
        experiment.

        Al, K9SI



        > If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
        > quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
        > keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
        > in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
        > pump.
        >
        > 73 de Mike W5VSI
      • Mike Manes
        If you didn t notice the water boiling off, then you probably didn t pull the air down below 100 mbar.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 24, 2013
          If you didn't notice the water boiling off, then you probably didn't
          pull the air down below 100 mbar.

          On 7/24/13 4:52 PM, Al Wolfe wrote:
          > We actually tried something like this in high school biology class in
          > about 1959. Put a goldfish in some water in a beaker under a bell jar.
          > Sucked it down and noticed the goldfish burping form time to time. When we
          > let the air back in the fish sank like a rock but then climbed to the
          > surface and gulped air. Happy ending - the fish survived.
          >
          > Looking back it was a probably a silly experiment but we did learn
          > something about how a fish attains neutral buoyancy.
          >
          > Today PETA or ASPCA would probably get rather upset about this sort of
          > experiment.
          >
          > Al, K9SI
          >
          >
          >
          >> If the fish tank were vented to local ambient pressure, then it would
          >> quite likely boil off entirely since the thermal mass of the water would
          >> keep the temperature above the triple point above 50K'. Easy to test
          >> in your vacuum chamber, if you don't mind sucking water vapor thru your
          >> pump.
          >>
          >> 73 de Mike W5VSI
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
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          >
          >
          >
        • L. Paul Verhage
          We just had a second test yesterday showing the Goldfish can survive a trip into new space open (although I was against this experiment). My suspicion is that
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2016

            We just had a second test yesterday showing the Goldfish can survive a trip into new space open (although I was against this experiment). My suspicion is that the water cushion them, has enough dissolved oxygen to keep them alive, and as enough bulk a specific heat to maintain its temperature long enough that the fish don't get don't freeze during the flight.

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