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Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

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  • David Patterson
    Just a quick reminder of a success story... the Sparkfun balloon (two weeks ago) was a 1600g Hwoyee, approx. 3lbs payload and 5.5lbs lift, and reached slightly
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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      Just a quick reminder of a success story... the Sparkfun balloon (two weeks ago) was a 1600g Hwoyee, approx. 3lbs payload and 5.5lbs lift, and reached slightly more than 130k'.  The EDGE3 balloon had approx. 12lbs lift (8lbs payload) and only achieved 85k'.  Not disagreeing, just providing a data point.
       
      -David

      On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:01 AM, k6rpt <Ron@...> wrote:
       


      We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much higher success rate last year.

      I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from Howyee.

      -Ron K6RPT
      http://www.CNSP-Inc.com


    • Joe
      I can say one thing I never ever seen patch job on a kaymont/totex, probably if I did i d send it back for a refund or discount t least. we are paying large
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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        I can say one thing I never ever seen  patch job on a kaymont/totex, probably if I did i'd send it back for a refund or  discount t least. we are paying large bucks for a balloon, I'm not paying for a patched one full price.

        Joe WB9SBD
        Sig
        The Original Rolling Ball Clock
        Idle Tyme
        Idle-Tyme.com
        http://www.idle-tyme.com
        On 11/7/2012 12:01 PM, k6rpt wrote:
        We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much higher success rate last year.
        
        I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from Howyee.
        
        
        -Ron K6RPT
        http://www.CNSP-Inc.com
        
        
        
        
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      • Mike Manes
        Sci Sales may have had a management change. The last balloon we got from them was a 2000 gm, and when we rolled it out on launch morning, we found a 1 hole
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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          Sci Sales may have had a management change. The last balloon we got
          from them was a 2000 gm, and when we rolled it out on launch morning,
          we found a 1" hole in the skin, outlined and labeled "HOLE" in magic
          marker! When we filed for RMA, all they offered was credit for what
          we paid. We dropped them from our approved vendors list.
          73 de Mike W5VSI

          On 11/7/12 11:30 AM, Joe wrote:
          > I can say one thing I never ever seen patch job on a kaymont/totex,
          > probably if I did i'd send it back for a refund or discount t least. we
          > are paying large bucks for a balloon, I'm not paying for a patched one
          > full price.
          >
          > Joe WB9SBD
          > Sig
          > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          > Idle Tyme
          > Idle-Tyme.com
          > http://www.idle-tyme.com
          > On 11/7/2012 12:01 PM, k6rpt wrote:
          >> We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much higher success rate last year.
          >>
          >> I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from Howyee.
          >>
          >>
          >> -Ron K6RPT
          >> http://www.CNSP-Inc.com
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
        • Joe
          maybe Howyee needs to learn what crap sci sales is selling and may be get someone else or better yet more than one distributor for over here so there is some
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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            maybe Howyee needs to learn what crap sci sales is selling and may be get someone else or better yet more than one distributor for over here so there is some competition. and could get the costs down some
            Sig
            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com
            On 11/7/2012 2:03 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
            Sci Sales may have had a management change.  The last balloon we got
            from them was a 2000 gm, and when we rolled it out on launch morning,
            we found a 1" hole in the skin, outlined and labeled "HOLE" in magic
            marker!  When we filed for RMA, all they offered was credit for what
            we paid. We dropped them from our approved vendors list.
            73 de Mike W5VSI

            On 11/7/12 11:30 AM, Joe wrote:
            I can say one thing I never ever seen  patch job on a kaymont/totex,
            probably if I did i'd send it back for a refund or  discount t least. we
            are paying large bucks for a balloon, I'm not paying for a patched one
            full price.

            Joe WB9SBD
            Sig
            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com
            On 11/7/2012 12:01 PM, k6rpt wrote:
            We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much higher success rate last year.

            I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from Howyee.


            -Ron K6RPT
            http://www.CNSP-Inc.com




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          • wb8elk@aol.com
            I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I personally have never had any problems with the balloons I ve ordered from Sci Sales (or from
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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              I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I personally have never had any problems with the balloons I've ordered from Sci Sales (or from Kaymont) over the years. It seems more likely that the balloons that they distribute probably were shipped to them from the factory in that condition and they just didn't notice it since I assume that don't unpack each balloon from it's plastic bag to inspect them before selling them. When you buy balloons from a factory you have to assume that the factory QC is doing its job...and was pointed out earlier, that may not be working well with a state-run industry.
               
              Also, I would agree that this very factory QC anomaly may be responsible for formulation or manufacturing differences that allow these phenomenal flights (or early failures) depending on the production batch or even individual balloons. It would be interesting to weigh different batches of 1600 gram Hwoyee's to see if there are differences in the amount of latex used. I'll weigh my remaining 1600 this week.
               
              - Bill


              -----Original Message-----
              From: k6rpt <Ron@...>
              To: GPSL <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:01 pm
              Subject: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

               

              We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much higher success rate last year.

              I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from Howyee.

              -Ron K6RPT
              http://www.CNSP-Inc.com

            • Mike Manes
              Hi Bill, It wasn t so much the flaw in the balloon that got to us. It was Sci Sales s ineffective response to our complaint. But that was over 5 years ago on
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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                Hi Bill,

                It wasn't so much the flaw in the balloon that got to us. It was
                Sci Sales's ineffective response to our complaint. But that was
                over 5 years ago on a product from a different manufacturer, so
                things may have changed since, especially if a "more important"
                customer had received the same treatment.

                73 de Mike W5VSI

                On 11/7/12 2:45 PM, wb8elk@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I
                > personally have never had any problems with the balloons I've ordered
                > from Sci Sales (or from Kaymont) over the years. It seems more likely
                > that the balloons that they distribute probably were shipped to them
                > from the factory in that condition and they just didn't notice it since
                > I assume that don't unpack each balloon from it's plastic bag to inspect
                > them before selling them. When you buy balloons from a factory you have
                > to assume that the factory QC is doing its job...and was pointed out
                > earlier, that may not be working well with a state-run industry.
                > Also, I would agree that this very factory QC anomaly may be responsible
                > for formulation or manufacturing differences that allow these phenomenal
                > flights (or early failures) depending on the production batch or even
                > individual balloons. It would be interesting to weigh different batches
                > of 1600 gram Hwoyee's to see if there are differences in the amount of
                > latex used. I'll weigh my remaining 1600 this week.
                > - Bill
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: k6rpt <Ron@...>
                > To: GPSL <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:01 pm
                > Subject: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons
                >
                >
                > We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI
                > paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude
                > attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well
                > recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much
                > higher success rate last year.
                >
                > I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the
                > recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what
                > they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had
                > left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes
                > the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and
                > is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from
                > Howyee.
                >
                > -Ron K6RPT
                > http://www.CNSP-Inc.com <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/>
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Joe
                I glad,, and sad,, that I was not the only customer that was treated like crap by them. I try to avoid them as much s possible. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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                  I glad,,  and sad,, that I was not the only customer that was treated like crap by them. I try to avoid them as much s possible.

                  Joe WB9SBD
                  Sig
                  The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  Idle Tyme
                  Idle-Tyme.com
                  http://www.idle-tyme.com
                  On 11/7/2012 4:06 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
                  Hi Bill,
                  
                  It wasn't so much the flaw in the balloon that got to us.  It was
                  Sci Sales's ineffective response to our complaint.  But that was
                  over 5 years ago on a product from a different manufacturer, so
                  things may have changed since, especially if a "more important"
                  customer had received the same treatment.
                  
                  73 de Mike W5VSI
                  
                  On 11/7/12 2:45 PM, wb8elk@... wrote:
                  
                  
                  I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I
                  personally have never had any problems with the balloons I've ordered
                  from Sci Sales (or from Kaymont) over the years. It seems more likely
                  that the balloons that they distribute probably were shipped to them
                  from the factory in that condition and they just didn't notice it since
                  I assume that don't unpack each balloon from it's plastic bag to inspect
                  them before selling them. When you buy balloons from a factory you have
                  to assume that the factory QC is doing its job...and was pointed out
                  earlier, that may not be working well with a state-run industry.
                  Also, I would agree that this very factory QC anomaly may be responsible
                  for formulation or manufacturing differences that allow these phenomenal
                  flights (or early failures) depending on the production batch or even
                  individual balloons. It would be interesting to weigh different batches
                  of 1600 gram Hwoyee's to see if there are differences in the amount of
                  latex used. I'll weigh my remaining 1600 this week.
                  - Bill
                  
                  
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: k6rpt <Ron@...>
                  To: GPSL <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:01 pm
                  Subject: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons
                  
                  
                  We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI
                  paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude
                  attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well
                  recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much
                  higher success rate last year.
                  
                  I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the
                  recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what
                  they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had
                  left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes
                  the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and
                  is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from
                  Howyee.
                  
                  -Ron K6RPT
                  http://www.CNSP-Inc.com <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/>
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
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                • David Patterson
                  From the weather balloon page of the SciSales site: *Each balloon is inflated, inspected, and tested before being dusted and sealed in a moisture-proof
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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                    From the weather balloon page of the SciSales site:
                     
                    Each balloon is inflated, inspected, and tested before being dusted and sealed in a moisture-proof polyethylene bag. They may be stored up to 7 years if kept in a cool, dark room. No pre-flight conditioning is required.  Weather Balloons are not returnable.
                     
                    Don't know if that was on the page 5 years ago or not, just a point of information.
                     
                    -David


                    On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                    I glad,,  and sad,, that I was not the only customer that was treated like crap by them. I try to avoid them as much s possible.

                    Joe WB9SBD


                    The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                    Idle Tyme
                    Idle-Tyme.com
                    http://www.idle-tyme.com
                    On 11/7/2012 4:06 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
                    Hi Bill,
                    
                    It wasn't so much the flaw in the balloon that got to us.  It was
                    Sci Sales's ineffective response to our complaint.  But that was
                    over 5 years ago on a product from a different manufacturer, so
                    things may have changed since, especially if a "more important"
                    customer had received the same treatment.
                    
                    73 de Mike W5VSI
                    
                    On 11/7/12 2:45 PM, wb8elk@... wrote:
                    
                    I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I
                    personally have never had any problems with the balloons I've ordered
                    from Sci Sales (or from Kaymont) over the years. It seems more likely
                    that the balloons that they distribute probably were shipped to them
                    from the factory in that condition and they just didn't notice it since
                    I assume that don't unpack each balloon from it's plastic bag to inspect
                    them before selling them. When you buy balloons from a factory you have
                    to assume that the factory QC is doing its job...and was pointed out
                    earlier, that may not be working well with a state-run industry.
                    Also, I would agree that this very factory QC anomaly may be responsible
                    for formulation or manufacturing differences that allow these phenomenal
                    flights (or early failures) depending on the production batch or even
                    individual balloons. It would be interesting to weigh different batches
                    of 1600 gram Hwoyee's to see if there are differences in the amount of
                    latex used. I'll weigh my remaining 1600 this week.
                    - Bill
                    
                    
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: k6rpt <Ron@...>
                    To: GPSL <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:01 pm
                    Subject: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons
                    
                    
                    We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI
                    paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude
                    attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well
                    recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much
                    higher success rate last year.
                    
                    I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the
                    recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what
                    they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had
                    left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes
                    the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and
                    is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from
                    Howyee.
                    
                    -Ron K6RPT
                    http://www.CNSP-Inc.com <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/>
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    ------------------------------------
                    
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                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  • hemya
                    These are standard instructions from Totex
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 7, 2012
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                      These are standard instructions from Totex

                      --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, David Patterson <edgeresearchlab@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From the weather balloon page of the SciSales site:
                      >
                      > *Each balloon is inflated, inspected, and tested before being dusted and
                      > sealed in a moisture-proof polyethylene bag. They may be stored up to 7
                      > years if kept in a cool, dark room. No pre-flight conditioning is
                      > required. Weather Balloons are not returnable.*
                      >
                      > Don't know if that was on the page 5 years ago or not, just a point of
                      > information.
                      >
                      > -David
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I glad,, and sad,, that I was not the only customer that was treated
                      > > like crap by them. I try to avoid them as much s possible.
                      > >
                      > > Joe WB9SBD
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                      > > Idle Tyme
                      > > Idle-Tyme.com
                      > > http://www.idle-tyme.com
                      > > On 11/7/2012 4:06 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Bill,
                      > >
                      > > It wasn't so much the flaw in the balloon that got to us. It was
                      > > Sci Sales's ineffective response to our complaint. But that was
                      > > over 5 years ago on a product from a different manufacturer, so
                      > > things may have changed since, especially if a "more important"
                      > > customer had received the same treatment.
                      > >
                      > > 73 de Mike W5VSI
                      > >
                      > > On 11/7/12 2:45 PM, wb8elk@... wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I hope that issues like EOSS experienced was a random thing....I
                      > > personally have never had any problems with the balloons I've ordered
                      > > from Sci Sales (or from Kaymont) over the years. It seems more likely
                      > > that the balloons that they distribute probably were shipped to them
                      > > from the factory in that condition and they just didn't notice it since
                      > > I assume that don't unpack each balloon from it's plastic bag to inspect
                      > > them before selling them. When you buy balloons from a factory you have
                      > > to assume that the factory QC is doing its job...and was pointed out
                      > > earlier, that may not be working well with a state-run industry.
                      > > Also, I would agree that this very factory QC anomaly may be responsible
                      > > for formulation or manufacturing differences that allow these phenomenal
                      > > flights (or early failures) depending on the production batch or even
                      > > individual balloons. It would be interesting to weigh different batches
                      > > of 1600 gram Hwoyee's to see if there are differences in the amount of
                      > > latex used. I'll weigh my remaining 1600 this week.
                      > > - Bill
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: k6rpt <Ron@...> <Ron@...>
                      > > To: GPSL <GPSL@yahoogroups.com> <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:01 pm
                      > > Subject: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > We are seeing far more failures compared to last year. Recently UAI
                      > > paper airplane launch 84k, JHAB altitude attempt 94k, and CNSP altitude
                      > > attempt for batch test 102k. In fact I haven't seen any doing well
                      > > recently. I'm not saying there all are bad, but we were seeing a much
                      > > higher success rate last year.
                      > >
                      > > I talked to Tom @ Scientific Sales this morning. I told him about the
                      > > recent reports and he is going to contact Howyee and let me know what
                      > > they have to say. Tom said he purchased all the 1600g balloons they had
                      > > left on his last order and has a new order on the way. He also believes
                      > > the new order must be a new batch. Tom has been great to work with and
                      > > is doing everything he can to get us the highest quality balloons from
                      > > Howyee.
                      > >
                      > > -Ron K6RPThttp://www.CNSP-Inc.com <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/> <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/> <http://www.cnsp-inc.com/>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Steve Randall
                      ... I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                        For those that don't know - I run some balloon sales for the HAB community over here in the UK - I sell Hwoyee and Totex Balloons into the UK and Europe ...
                        I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the UK).  These had come out of a batch manufactured June 2011.  At the time Hwoyee said it was only being reported by the the UK and that US/Canadian folk didn't have a problem with the same batch.   Since then in the UK we have had both some very good (2 world records) and a bad 1600s - these have come out of production batches made this year.  

                        Ron when you say "current stock" - do  have you any idea when these were manufactured?  Do we know how long the Scientific Sales pipeline is?  (I rarely keep more than a few months of stock).

                        I have taken this up with Hwoyee again and they seem to be taking it quite seriously now they are getting failure reports from elsewhere - their current proposal is that its been caused by poor quality raw materials imported by them last year.

                        Steve G8KHW/AJ4XE










                      • Steve Randall
                        Sorry that should read:         Since then ... we have had both some very good (2 world records) and some bad 1600s (We have had several early burst
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                          Sorry that should read:  

                                Since then ... we have had both some very good (2 world records) and some bad 1600s

                          (We have had several early burst failures this year).

                          Steve


                          From: Steve Randall <g8khw@...>
                          To: "GPSL@yahoogroups.com" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012, 9:07
                          Subject: Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

                           

                          For those that don't know - I run some balloon sales for the HAB community over here in the UK - I sell Hwoyee and Totex Balloons into the UK and Europe ...
                          I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the UK).  These had come out of a batch manufactured June 2011.  At the time Hwoyee said it was only being reported by the the UK and that US/Canadian folk didn't have a problem with the same batch.   Since then in the UK we have had both some very good (2 world records) and a bad 1600s - these have come out of production batches made this year.  

                          Ron when you say "current stock" - do  have you any idea when these were manufactured?  Do we know how long the Scientific Sales pipeline is?  (I rarely keep more than a few months of stock).

                          I have taken this up with Hwoyee again and they seem to be taking it quite seriously now they are getting failure reports from elsewhere - their current proposal is that its been caused by poor quality raw materials imported by them last year.

                          Steve G8KHW/AJ4XE












                        • Joe
                          it is all sounding like typical Chinese quality Control standards, (if there is such a thing) Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                            it is all sounding like typical Chinese quality Control standards, (if there is such a thing)

                            Joe WB9SBD
                            Sig
                            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                            Idle Tyme
                            Idle-Tyme.com
                            http://www.idle-tyme.com
                            On 11/8/2012 3:15 AM, Steve Randall wrote:
                            Sorry that should read:  

                                  Since then ... we have had both some very good (2 world records) and some bad 1600s

                            (We have had several early burst failures this year).

                            Steve


                            From: Steve Randall <g8khw@...>
                            To: "GPSL@yahoogroups.com" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012, 9:07
                            Subject: Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

                             

                            For those that don't know - I run some balloon sales for the HAB community over here in the UK - I sell Hwoyee and Totex Balloons into the UK and Europe ...
                            I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the UK).  These had come out of a batch manufactured June 2011.  At the time Hwoyee said it was only being reported by the the UK and that US/Canadian folk didn't have a problem with the same batch.   Since then in the UK we have had both some very good (2 world records) and a bad 1600s - these have come out of production batches made this year.  

                            Ron when you say "current stock" - do  have you any idea when these were manufactured?  Do we know how long the Scientific Sales pipeline is?  (I rarely keep more than a few months of stock).

                            I have taken this up with Hwoyee again and they seem to be taking it quite seriously now they are getting failure reports from elsewhere - their current proposal is that its been caused by poor quality raw materials imported by them last year.

                            Steve G8KHW/AJ4XE













                          • BASE
                            Steve, I ll share my experience with Hwoyees.  In 2011, I had sent a 1600 gram Hwoyee (from StratoStar before they were frozen out of the U.S. market by
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                              Steve,

                              I'll share my experience with Hwoyees.  In 2011, I had sent a 1600 gram Hwoyee (from StratoStar before they were frozen out of the U.S. market by Hwoyee and Scientific Sales) with 2.5 kg of payload and an ascent rate of 5 m/s to an altitude of  38 km (125 kft). I was astonished that we broke 35 km.

                              This summer I wanted another high altitude flight at SpaceJam for the amateur radio community to have fun working the cross band repeater. On 21 June 2012, I ordered a 1600 gram Hwoyee from Scientific Sales. Tom shipped a 1500 gram Totex which arrived during the last week of June.  The standard Totex was missing from the bag, but it had a Totex neck and massed at 1500 grams.  I spent a few days deciding what to do.  I expressed my concern about this change in product with Ron K6RPT.  He convinced me that Tom would "make it right."

                              When I contacted Tom on July 9, he said that a new batch of Hwoyees had just arrived. I kept the Totex and ordered another Hwoyee. I flew this balloon on 4 August at SpaceJam 6.  For the flight this year, I cut the payload mass to 1 kg of payload and used even less helium to climb at 5 m/s.  The balloon burst around 34 km.  A large amount of the balloon returned to the ground, unlike several other Hwoyee flights that I knew about.  The other Hwoyees came back with just the neck. 

                              I'm not convinced that this behavior is signficantly different, but I wanted to put to rest any possibility that Scientific Sales had old stock.

                              I still have four 800 gram Hwoyees that I'll use with the research projects here.  If we get to 25 - 27 km, we'll be fine.

                              As a side note, I wonder if the neck thickness has changed on the balloons.  More rubber in the neck would mean less rubber in the envelope.

                              Howard, KC9QBN
                              BASE-DePauw


                              From: Steve Randall <g8khw@...>
                              To: "GPSL@yahoogroups.com" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2012 4:15 AM
                              Subject: Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

                               
                              Sorry that should read:  

                                    Since then ... we have had both some very good (2 world records) and some bad 1600s

                              (We have had several early burst failures this year).

                              Steve


                              From: Steve Randall <g8khw@...>
                              To: "GPSL@yahoogroups.com" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012, 9:07
                              Subject: Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons

                               

                              For those that don't know - I run some balloon sales for the HAB community over here in the UK - I sell Hwoyee and Totex Balloons into the UK and Europe ...
                              I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the UK).  These had come out of a batch manufactured June 2011.  At the time Hwoyee said it was only being reported by the the UK and that US/Canadian folk didn't have a problem with the same batch.   Since then in the UK we have had both some very good (2 world records) and a bad 1600s - these have come out of production batches made this year.  

                              Ron when you say "current stock" - do  have you any idea when these were manufactured?  Do we know how long the Scientific Sales pipeline is?  (I rarely keep more than a few months of stock).

                              I have taken this up with Hwoyee again and they seem to be taking it quite seriously now they are getting failure reports from elsewhere - their current proposal is that its been caused by poor quality raw materials imported by them last year.

                              Steve G8KHW/AJ4XE














                            • k6rpt
                              CNSP placed an order with Scientific Sales on 9-8-2012 for some 1600g balloons and they were out of stock. This order was shipped to us on 9-25-2012.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                                CNSP placed an order with Scientific Sales on 9-8-2012 for some 1600g balloons and they were out of stock. This order was shipped to us on 9-25-2012. Scientific Sales purchased all the 1600g balloons Howyee had left in stock on this order. This is the order I'm referring to as "current stock".

                                We have placed an order from the new batch that's on the way to Scientific Sales now. We are hoping this new batch gets here in time for floating season so we can launch more than one flight.

                                -Ron K6RPT
                                http://www.CNSP-Inc.com



                                --- In GPSL@yahoogroups.com, Steve Randall <g8khw@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Sorry that should read:  
                                >
                                >       Since then ... we have had both some very good (2 world records) and some bad 1600s
                                >
                                > (We have had several early burst failures this year).
                                >
                                > Steve
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Steve Randall <g8khw@...>
                                > To: "GPSL@yahoogroups.com" <GPSL@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Thursday, 8 November 2012, 9:07
                                > Subject: Re: [GPSL] Quality of Howyee balloons
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                > >>>For those that don't know - I run some balloon sales for the HAB community over here in the UK - I sell Hwoyee and Totex Balloons into the UK and Europe ...
                                > I contacted Hwoyee back in April this year telling them I suspected they had a problem with the 1600s (this was after 3 early burst failures here in the UK).  These had come out of a batch manufactured June 2011.  At the time Hwoyee said it was only being reported by the the UK and that US/Canadian folk didn't have a problem with the same batch.   Since then in the UK we have had both some very good (2 world records) and a bad 1600s - these have come out of production batches made this year.  
                                >
                                > Ron when you say "current stock" - do  have you any idea when these were manufactured?  Do we know how long the Scientific Sales pipeline is?  (I rarely keep more than a few months of stock).
                                >
                                > I have taken this up with Hwoyee again and they seem to be taking it quite seriously now they are getting failure reports from elsewhere - their current proposal is that its been caused by poor quality raw materials imported by them last year.
                                >
                                > Steve G8KHW/AJ4XE
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >>>
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Mike Manes
                                In my experience with 1200 thru 3000 gm bags, the neck rubber appears to be intentionally thicker, perhaps from adding more coats of latex, and in some cases,
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 8, 2012
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                                  In my experience with 1200 thru 3000 gm bags, the neck rubber appears
                                  to be intentionally thicker, perhaps from adding more coats of latex,
                                  and in some cases, fabric, to the neck and about a foot or two up the
                                  envelope from the neck. This has not been observed in 30 gm pibals,
                                  however.

                                  73 de Mike W5VSI

                                  On 11/8/12 6:47 AM, BASE wrote:
                                  > As a side note, I wonder if the neck thickness has changed on the
                                  > balloons. More rubber in the neck would mean less rubber in the envelope.
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