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Re: unwinder

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  • Mark Caviezel
    Hello Norm, Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent.  I rather like the simplicity & low parts count.  The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 15, 2012
    Hello Norm,
    Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent.  I rather like the simplicity & low parts count.  The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.   One cool characteristic is that the wind pattern can be modified to change the speed of the unwinding, even a pre-programmed slow, fast, slow speed schedule could be arranged.  

    best

    - Mark



    From: Norman T. Kjome <Kjome@...>
    To: Mike Manes <mrmanes@...>
    Cc: jmfranke <jmfranke@...>; Mark Caviezel <kmcaviezel@...>; GPSL <gpsl@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:10 PM
    Subject: RE: unwinder

    Hi Mike,

    The vented 3000 gm balloons were designed by Sam Oltmans at NOAA. (Not my invention.)

    The vertical tube you mention was actually used to calibrate backscattersondes -- not a wind tunnel. There was not all that much velocity. The 4 blowers fans were used to move filtered air into the tube for a reference level, and then ambient air was introduced for comparison. It was designed by Jim Rosen.

    Yah, the reels are a bit pricey, but do work well. The weather service used a much smaller reel for radiosondes, but it cannot be scaled up, so not useful. See it on page 13 in this pdf:
    http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/atmchem/ozonesonde/Flight%20notes/Ozoneflight%20Instructions.pdf

    I would like to see more on the NCAR device  (US Patent 4529018 NCAR, Lichfield)  I found the patent but could not view the images.

    Norm

  • Mike Manes
    Boy - now I m disillusioned :=(. But that doesn t diminish the value of your developments in unmanned ballooning and your generous mentorship to EOSS in its
    Message 2 of 12 , Jun 15, 2012
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      Boy - now I'm disillusioned :=(. But that doesn't diminish the value of your
      developments in unmanned ballooning and your generous mentorship to EOSS in
      its salad days.

      I only need like 15-20 MPH airflow in a 6 - 8 ft diameter to evaluate
      design tweaks, so not a huge blast.

      I've run into that viewer issue at UPSTO.gov as well. That may be why I
      downloaded a freeware TIFF viewer app called InnoVue by Innomage Enterprises,
      Inc, which does the job nicely. K-mark did post a .pdf of the patent to the
      group a bit ago, IIRC.

      73 de Mike W5VSI


      On 6/15/2012 19:10, Norman T. Kjome wrote:
      > Hi Mike,
      >
      > The vented 3000 gm balloons were designed by Sam Oltmans at NOAA. (Not my invention.)
      >
      > The vertical tube you mention was actually used to calibrate backscattersondes -- not a wind tunnel. There was not all that much velocity. The 4 blowers fans were used to move filtered air into the tube for a reference level, and then ambient air was introduced for comparison. It was designed by Jim Rosen.
      >
      > Yah, the reels are a bit pricey, but do work well. The weather service used a much smaller reel for radiosondes, but it cannot be scaled up, so not useful. See it on page 13 in this pdf:
      > http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/atmchem/ozonesonde/Flight%20notes/Ozoneflight%20Instructions.pdf
      >
      > I would like to see more on the NCAR device (US Patent 4529018 NCAR, Lichfield) I found the patent but could not view the images.
      >
      > Norm

      --
      Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
      "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
      A. Einstein
    • James Ewen
      ... Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it! I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts count, and very simple to
      Message 3 of 12 , Jun 15, 2012
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        > Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent.  I rather like the simplicity & low parts count.
        > The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.

        Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it!

        I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts
        count, and very simple to use.

        --
        James
        VE6SRV
      • Joe
        The only thing that concerns me with this design is it looks like it needs very light weight line. Very small stuff. otherwise not many feet wil be able to be
        Message 4 of 12 , Jun 16, 2012
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          The only thing that concerns me with this design is it looks like it needs very light weight line.  Very small stuff. otherwise not many feet wil be able to be wound up on it.

          Our 300 foot lines don't look like they would have a chance of fitting unless we used something like spectra line or similar.

          Joe WB9SBD
          Sig
          The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          Idle Tyme
          Idle-Tyme.com
          http://www.idle-tyme.com

          On 6/16/2012 12:10 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
          Hi James,
          
          How would you use it for a cutaway device?  It's just designed to pay out
          the lift line gradually over a period of a minute or so.  And despite its
          simplicity, as shown in the patent, it's just single-use if you cut away
          at burst, since it's bonded to the balloon.  I suppose one could configure
          it so it's bonded to the parachute, however, but then you're still stuck
          with losing it if you cut away.
          
          73 de Mike W5VSI
          
          
          On 6/15/2012 23:05, James Ewen wrote:
          
          Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent.  I rather like the simplicity&  low parts count.
          The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.
          
          Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it!
          
          I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts
          count, and very simple to use.
          
          --
          James
          VE6SRV
          
          
          ------------------------------------
          
          Yahoo! Groups Links
          
          
          
          
          
        • Mark Garrett
          I have one of these unwinders and yes it is pretty light string, reminds me of kite string. Mark Garrett KA9SZX ________________________________ From: Joe
          Message 5 of 12 , Jun 16, 2012
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            I have one of these unwinders and yes it is pretty light string, reminds me of kite string.
            Mark Garrett
            KA9SZX


            From: Joe <nss@...>
            To: Mike Manes <mrmanes@...>
            Cc: James Ewen <ve6srv@...>; GPSL <gpsl@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:30 AM
            Subject: Re: [GPSL] Re: unwinder

            The only thing that concerns me with this design is it looks like it needs very light weight line.  Very small stuff. otherwise not many feet wil be able to be wound up on it.

            Our 300 foot lines don't look like they would have a chance of fitting unless we used something like spectra line or similar.

            Joe WB9SBD
            Sig
            The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            Idle Tyme
            Idle-Tyme.com
            http://www.idle-tyme.com

            On 6/16/2012 12:10 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
            Hi James,
            
            How would you use it for a cutaway device?  It's just designed to pay out
            the lift line gradually over a period of a minute or so.  And despite its
            simplicity, as shown in the patent, it's just single-use if you cut away
            at burst, since it's bonded to the balloon.  I suppose one could configure
            it so it's bonded to the parachute, however, but then you're still stuck
            with losing it if you cut away.
            
            73 de Mike W5VSI
            
            
            On 6/15/2012 23:05, James Ewen wrote:
            
            Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent.  I rather like the simplicity&  low parts count.
            The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.
            
            Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it!
            
            I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts
            count, and very simple to use.
            
            --
            James
            VE6SRV
            
            
            ------------------------------------
            
            Yahoo! Groups Links
            
            
            
            
            


          • Mike Manes
            Hi James, How would you use it for a cutaway device? It s just designed to pay out the lift line gradually over a period of a minute or so. And despite its
            Message 6 of 12 , Jun 16, 2012
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              Hi James,

              How would you use it for a cutaway device? It's just designed to pay out
              the lift line gradually over a period of a minute or so. And despite its
              simplicity, as shown in the patent, it's just single-use if you cut away
              at burst, since it's bonded to the balloon. I suppose one could configure
              it so it's bonded to the parachute, however, but then you're still stuck
              with losing it if you cut away.

              73 de Mike W5VSI


              On 6/15/2012 23:05, James Ewen wrote:
              >> Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent. I rather like the simplicity& low parts count.
              >> The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.
              >
              > Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it!
              >
              > I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts
              > count, and very simple to use.
              >
              > --
              > James
              > VE6SRV
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
              "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
              A. Einstein
            • Mike Manes
              You could always scale it up to accommodate as much line as you need. My concern with the notched wheel design is that it would hang up if the paid-out line
              Message 7 of 12 , Jun 16, 2012
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                You could always scale it up to accommodate as much line as you need. My
                concern with the notched wheel design is that it would hang up if the
                paid-out line ever got snagged in that notch, e.g., during some swing and
                sway (with Sammy Kaye :=) during ascent. Making the notch narrower might
                help, but going too narrow might also hang it up. Otherwise, pretty dern
                clever.

                73 de Mike W5VSI

                On 6/16/2012 10:30, Joe wrote:
                > The only thing that concerns me with this design is it looks like it needs
                > very light weight line. Very small stuff. otherwise not many feet wil be able
                > to be wound up on it.
                >
                > Our 300 foot lines don't look like they would have a chance of fitting unless
                > we used something like spectra line or similar.
                >
                > Joe WB9SBD
                >
                > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                > Idle Tyme
                > Idle-Tyme.com
                > http://www.idle-tyme.com
                >
                > On 6/16/2012 12:10 PM, Mike Manes wrote:
                >> Hi James,
                >>
                >> How would you use it for a cutaway device? It's just designed to pay out
                >> the lift line gradually over a period of a minute or so. And despite its
                >> simplicity, as shown in the patent, it's just single-use if you cut away
                >> at burst, since it's bonded to the balloon. I suppose one could configure
                >> it so it's bonded to the parachute, however, but then you're still stuck
                >> with losing it if you cut away.
                >>
                >> 73 de Mike W5VSI
                >>
                >>
                >> On 6/15/2012 23:05, James Ewen wrote:
                >>>> Here is the .pdf of the unwinder patent. I rather like the simplicity& low parts count.
                >>>> The one downside I see is that it may be a bit of a chore to load it up.
                >>> Wow, that is a very simple and elegant unwinder... I like it!
                >>>
                >>> I want something like that for a cut away device... very low parts
                >>> count, and very simple to use.
                >>>
                >>> --
                >>> James
                >>> VE6SRV
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> ------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>

                --
                Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                A. Einstein
              • James Ewen
                ... I wouldn t use that device for a cut away. I want a cut away device that is similar in that it is simple and has a low parts count. The ratcheting unwinder
                Message 8 of 12 , Jun 17, 2012
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                  On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Mike Manes <mrmanes@...> wrote:

                  > How would you use it for a cutaway device?

                  I wouldn't use that device for a cut away. I want a cut away device
                  that is similar in that it is simple and has a low parts count.

                  The ratcheting unwinder does the same thing as the notched flywheel,
                  but the flywheel has far fewer parts, and is very easy to manufacture.

                  I want a cut away device that watches for burst, and then
                  automatically cuts away from the shredded remains.

                  No aneroid cells, no microcontroller watching for ascent rate changes,
                  no nichrome wire... just a simple, elegant little device that hold the
                  payload train together until the balloon lift goes away, and then
                  reliably releases the payload from the balloon.

                  Just while answering this query, I've been thinking, and I think
                  something like this notched wheel might be able to be used to affect
                  release... I'm going to have to make one and try it out.

                  --
                  James
                  VE6SRV
                • Mike Manes
                  Hi James, Well, if you take out the anaeroid arming feature, and just be sure that there s lift line tension on on the fast release, then the design that EOSS
                  Message 9 of 12 , Jun 17, 2012
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                    Hi James,

                    Well, if you take out the anaeroid arming feature, and just be sure that
                    there's lift line tension on on the fast release, then the design that
                    EOSS and NSV use is pretty K.I.S.S.: 4 parts - 2 jaws, a pivot and a spring.

                    73 de Mike W5VSI

                    On 6/17/2012 10:07, James Ewen wrote:
                    > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Mike Manes<mrmanes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> How would you use it for a cutaway device?
                    >
                    > I wouldn't use that device for a cut away. I want a cut away device
                    > that is similar in that it is simple and has a low parts count.
                    >
                    > The ratcheting unwinder does the same thing as the notched flywheel,
                    > but the flywheel has far fewer parts, and is very easy to manufacture.
                    >
                    > I want a cut away device that watches for burst, and then
                    > automatically cuts away from the shredded remains.
                    >
                    > No aneroid cells, no microcontroller watching for ascent rate changes,
                    > no nichrome wire... just a simple, elegant little device that hold the
                    > payload train together until the balloon lift goes away, and then
                    > reliably releases the payload from the balloon.
                    >
                    > Just while answering this query, I've been thinking, and I think
                    > something like this notched wheel might be able to be used to affect
                    > release... I'm going to have to make one and try it out.
                    >

                    --
                    Mike Manes mrmanes@... Tel: 303-979-4899
                    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so."
                    A. Einstein
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