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Re: [GMRS] Re: GMRS Emergency Radio Communications

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  • Tony Drake
    And here you have the crux of the issue. In my hometown in FL, there were multiple groups. Then there were the sarasota groups just across the line. Add to
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 1, 2003
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      And here you have the crux of the issue.

      In my hometown in FL, there were multiple groups. Then
      there were the sarasota groups just across the line.
      Add to that the Bradenton Groups split, recombined,
      argued, etc.

      Thats why I would like to see a quasi government
      organization that is affiliated with nobody to just
      pull in the list of everyone. I know a lot of nice
      CB'rs (blasphemy around hams I know). Some of them
      even got their tickets after they realized ham was so
      much different than CB.

      If there were one group, that was like an association
      of all the different emergency management teams from
      across florida (lets use it as the example) and had
      quasi government status, then it wouldn't matter who
      you were or what you did, everyone would take orders
      from one central source who would determine who to
      call and when and for what.

      Granted of course that that quasi government
      organization would be staffed and run by highly
      trained highly skilled people (RF engineers, phone
      engineers, disaster planners, etc) who could make
      educated decisions without politicizing them.

      The organization would need reps from the phone
      company, red cross, cellular companies, salvation army
      and the other relief orgs and would have a
      comprehensive plan region by region that would say
      stuff like:

      When the phone lines are down, We need X# of radio
      people to work with our crews and dispatch, we need x#
      of people per shelter to work shifts and run shelter
      to shelter comms, we need X# volunteers to run radios
      for ems, etc. etc.

      TOny
      --- Bob Pickering <bpickering@...> wrote:
      > Also a very good idea....
      >
      > I work for Emergency Services in Flagler County. We
      > have two ham
      > radio groups that are at each others throat
      > (actually just the
      > leadership of the two) so what may wind up happening
      > here is that we
      > combine all REACT, ARES, etc into a CERT
      > Communications Team or some
      > sort of ESF-2 Communications Team.
      >
      > Again I am an ACTIVE member of REACT, and REACT has
      > great pluses like
      > the insurance and the non profit status. But when
      > you are in trouble
      > it matters not what patch you wear on your arm we
      > are all in trouble.
      >
      > In 1985 we started Flagler County Assist with the
      > intent to merge ham
      > and CB radio peope together. Well the hams did not
      > to work with
      > CB'ers and well now we have 3 groups here, and each
      > one wnats thier
      > PR thier name etc...
      >
      > ONE group will be fine with me...
      >
      > Bob
      >
      > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, Tony Drake
      > <tld53389@y...> wrote:
      > > The biggest problem I have seen in emergency
      > > communications has been just the sheer number of
      > > organizations.
      > >
      > > I live in Florida, and we see our share of
      > disasters.
      > >
      > > But the real problem is that coordination for
      > > disasters itself is not the premise of REACT,
      > ARES,
      > > RACES, or GMERS. It is a government bureaucracy
      > (FEMA,
      > > local, state gov't), combined with powerful groups
      > > such as united way, Red Cross, and salvation army,
      > > etc.
      > >
      > > Then you have the hams (of which I am also one)
      > and so
      > > you add ARES, RACES, the non-affiliated radio
      > groups,
      > > and then there are always a ton of well meaning
      > hams
      > > and private citizens who want to join in.
      > >
      > > On the state level you have national guard. On the
      > > local level you have the municipal emergency
      > group's
      > > EOC.
      > >
      > > All of this is very political. Each county has its
      > > "pet" affiliated groups. Some sherrif's have
      > > "communications posse's" similar to the mounted
      > > possee's.
      > >
      > > I don't think what is needed is a new group. I
      > don't
      > > even think training for "disaster op's" is needed.
      > > What is really needed is for there to be a single
      > > dedicated group for EVERYONE who wants to be a
      > part of
      > > emergency communications. Ideally it would be
      > > non-government, but it would be the exclusive body
      > to
      > > coordinate on either a state or regional level.
      > >
      > > Then ANYONE who wanted to be a part of such
      > activities
      > > would sign up through them, regardless of license,
      > > abilities, affiliation, etc. In the event of
      > emergency
      > > that needed communications, then that group would
      > > determine
      > >
      > > a) What infrastructure and skills are needed (do
      > we
      > > need to replace the phone system? Pictures and
      > video?
      > > Link shelters together? Search and Rescue?)
      > >
      > > b) How many people are needed (do we need the
      > locals,
      > > or do we need a statewide mobilization? Do we need
      > > more than the state has?)
      > >
      > > c) Which people do we have at our disposal to do
      > it?
      > >
      > > Everyone seems to forget the emergency clause,
      > which
      > > states that in the case of an emergency, the FCC
      > has
      > > the right to do pretty much as required to
      > facilitate
      > > communications. This means that it can authorize
      > > non-hams and non-gmrs users to use each others
      > bands
      > > on a temporary basis if that happens to be what is
      > > required.
      > > If such a central group were to exist, it would be
      > > able to say "FCC we want to authorize the
      > following
      > > people onto GMRS effectve now, we want the
      > following
      > > people on 2 meters, effective now, we want the
      > > following people on Public Safety, effective now,
      > etc
      > > and coordinate the whole thing.
      > >
      > > Rather than forming a new group, why not work to
      > > create a group agnostic operations plan?
      > >
      > > Tony
      > >
      > > --- Bob Pickering <bpickering@f...> wrote:
      > > > Agreed that the REACT organization can help and
      > > > benefit but there has got to
      > > > be a better way of doing it. I fully support
      > REACT
      > > > and they have been
      > > > promoted well here in Flagler County.
      > > >
      > > > I am a member of our local REACT Team
      > > > (www.react4800.org)
      > > >
      > > > But what turns off many to REACT in my
      > observations
      > > > is this:
      > > >
      > > > 1. Some REACT members seem more concerned about
      > by
      > > > laws and such instead of
      > > > focusing on good training and practice. I have
      > HEARD
      > > > this from folks who
      > > > decided not to join REACT for that reason.
      > > > 2. When you go to the REACT website how to start
      > a
      > > > new team you get this
      > > > billion word step by step on how to set up a
      > Team.
      > > > Several have seen that
      > > > and said "uh no". The reality of starting a
      > REACT
      > > > Team is much simpler than
      > > > that.
      > > > 3. Our Team here focuses on train and
      > operations. We
      > > > practice and practice.
      > > > You can't get through emergency service
      > > > communications with the "Oh I know
      > > > how to do that" bit.
      > > > 4. Some people do not see why they need to pay
      > for
      > > > an expensive radio, then
      > > > pay for a license then pay for dues then
      > volunteer.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Now REACT could benefit if they perhaps sponsor
      > a
      > > > GMERS concept for GMRS
      > > > users. Many GMRS users have e mailed me
      > supporting
      > > > some type of program,
      > > > just as the ARRL sponsors ARES.
      > > >
      > > > Again please do not think I am anti REACT. I
      > fully
      > > > support it, but if REACT
      > > > is to survive and be recognized as a viable
      > national
      > > > Emergency
      > > > Communications Organization it needs to make it
      > > > easier for folks to get
      > > > started in it. I have paid my REACT dues since
      > 1991
      > > > and plan on continuing.
      > > >
      > > > I do not want to disinterest anyone who is
      > thinking
      > > > about joining REACT
      > > > either, it is a lot easier then it appears to be
      > to
      > > > start a Team.
      > > >
      > > > Bob
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      >
      === message truncated ===
    • Ed Wirth
      Bob wrote: 4. Some people do not see why they need ... ================ I don t buy this as an argument for someone to volunteer. I know there are a LOT of
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 1, 2003
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        Bob wrote:
        4. Some people do not see why they need
        > to pay for an expensive radio, then pay for a license then pay for dues then
        > volunteer.
        ================
        I don't buy this as an argument for someone to volunteer.

        I know there are a LOT of people that want to skim by in life without
        paying their fair share of their interests. But dues are (in *my* estimation) a
        small part. I have a ham radio license, I have expensive ham radio gear, but I
        also belong to the local radio club, partly because my membership (and
        DUES) pay to support (operate and maintain) the club repeaters that I want
        to use with my expensive radio equipment.

        The same argument could be made for GMRS equipment and repeaters.
        Some people have to pay to operate and maintain the repeater(s), and any
        volunteer worth his salt would not focus on the minor amount of "DUES" to
        keep him from performing his volunteer duties.

        Most anyone else who would use DUES as an excuse to keep from
        volunteering, you probably don't want as a volunteer anyway.
        Ed Wirth

        National Information Agency
        Process Division
        http://www.infoagency.com
      • Ed Wirth
        Well, I think it is a darn shame that so many people allow egos to stand in the way of progress. Here in Brevard County we have a consortium of 12 or 13
        Message 3 of 30 , Jun 1, 2003
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          Well, I think it is a darn shame that so many people allow egos to stand
          in the way of progress.
          Here in Brevard County we have a consortium of 12 or 13 different radio
          groups that have come together to perform Emergency Communications
          duties for our area(s). MOST of the groups are Amateur Radio Clubs from
          around the county. There are TWO separate REACT teams involved (GMRS
          and CB operators), and one outstanding thing about the group is that we ALL
          can and DO work together for the common good. The ham folks understand
          and appreciate that the CB and GMRS folks do have something to offer, and
          the CB and GMRS folks are more than willing to participate in whatever
          fashion they are needed.
          Our consortium of Emergency Radio OPERATORS is known as BEARS,
          standing for Brevard Emergency Amateur Radio Service. A fine and
          cooperative group of radio operators. We meet at the Brevard County EOC,
          and have assets (two self contained comm center mobiles and a tower
          trailer) ready to move in and setup emergency communications duty on short
          notice. And recognized and cooperative with the County Emergency
          Services, and agencies all over the county.
          All of which CAN be done elsewhere if egos are put aside and groups
          cooperate for the good of the communities involved.
          =================
          > Also a very good idea....
          >
          > I work for Emergency Services in Flagler County. We have two ham
          > radio groups that are at each others throat (actually just the
          > leadership of the two) so what may wind up happening here is that we
          > combine all REACT, ARES, etc into a CERT Communications Team or some
          > sort of ESF-2 Communications Team.
          >
          > Again I am an ACTIVE member of REACT, and REACT has great pluses like
          > the insurance and the non profit status. But when you are in trouble
          > it matters not what patch you wear on your arm we are all in trouble.
          >
          > In 1985 we started Flagler County Assist with the intent to merge ham
          > and CB radio peope together. Well the hams did not to work with
          > CB'ers and well now we have 3 groups here, and each one wnats thier
          > PR thier name etc...
          >
          > ONE group will be fine with me...
          ================================
          Ed Wirth

          National Information Agency
          Process Division
          http://www.infoagency.com
        • kvsp1160@aol.com
          Ya know, That s not a bad idea. I d love to have something here. You see, I m in San Jose, CA, which is about 40 miles south east of San Francisco (where the
          Message 4 of 30 , Jun 2, 2003
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            Ya know,

            That's not a bad idea. I'd love to have something here. You see, I'm in San
            Jose, CA, which is about 40 miles south east of San Francisco (where the Golden
            Gate Bridge is). Last week we just lowered our terrorist alert from orange to
            yellow. Right now we are at a somewhat calm stage, but still have to watch
            what goes on over here. We have ports, bridges, the "Silicon Valley" where we
            produce 80%± of the US's computers, chips, electronics, etc. Since my house sits
            in the middle of Silicon Valley, I'm more likely to get "hit" frist.

            I'm looking into getting my ham license soon, but if we had means to
            communicate emergencies that anyone could use (not just CB, which sucks to begin
            with), then I think if the city works as a team, we could make San Jose and the bay
            area a better place. Especially if a major emergency event were to happen. We
            also have wild fires, earthquakes, and other disasters almost every week.
            (welcome to California).

            Let me know if you need any info about this area. I'm not able to help with
            construction of a new repeater or to help coordinate this service, but I do
            know some guys that own repeaters who would probably like to help in some way.

            Hey, sorry for the long email, but thought you'd like to know where I'm at
            and why I totally think that this service should be started.

            Take Care,
            Ryan
            WPUI299
            San Jose, CA
          • bruce monroe
            GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT !!!WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 23, 2003
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              GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT !!!WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON'T YOU GUY'S UNDERSTAND??
              IT SHOULD BE KEPT THAT WAY!!!!! WHY NOT SPEND ALL OF YOUR TIME PROMOTING THE HAM BANDS FOR SUCH USE? THAT'S WHAT IT IS FOR... THE FCC AND MOST EOC'S DO NOT RECOGNIZE GMRS AS A FORM OF EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL. GMRS IS NOW A BIG JOKE, THANKS TO THE PROLIFERATION OF FRS/GMRS COMBO UNITS, IT'S NO BETTER THAN CB. HOW ABOUT PUTTING ENERGY INTO BANNING FRS/GMRS COMBO UNITS????AS FOR NON PROFIT GROUPS...APPLY FOR A BUSINESS BAND LICENSE LIKE ALL OTHER NON-PROFITS HAVE TO DO!!! I PAID MY $75.00 FOR A GMRS LICENSE AND I STUDIED AND GOT A HAM LICENSE...SO CAN ALL THE REST OF THE WANNA BE EMERGENCY WORKERS IN REACT. AS FOR RK LEAF AND HIS PETITION, I WILL BE SENDING A LETTER REQUESTING THE FCC DENY THE PETITION..AND I WOULD HOPE OTHERS WILL DO THE SAME. PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY PERIOD!!!!THAT WHAT GMRS IS FOR.




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            • striplingp
              ... EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT ... Hi, Bruce, I know you re trying to be polite and all, but would you quit beating around
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 23, 2003
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                --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, bruce monroe <dc11082003@y...> wrote:
                > GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT
                EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT
                !!!WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON'T YOU GUY'S UNDERSTAND??
                > IT SHOULD BE KEPT THAT WAY!!!!!

                Hi, Bruce,

                I know you're trying to be polite and all, but would you quit beating
                around the bush and just come out and tell us how you _really_ feel?

                phil
              • Steve
                ... EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT !!! WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON T YOU GUY S UNDERSTAND?? Bruce, perhaps you
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 23, 2003
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                  --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, bruce monroe <dc11082003@y...> wrote:
                  > GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT
                  EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT !!!
                  WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON'T YOU GUY'S UNDERSTAND??


                  Bruce, perhaps you are the one that does not understand. Please
                  show me the regulation which says GMRS is for Personal and Family use.
                  The "G" stands for "General" use. It was around long before the
                  "Family Radio Service" (frs). It was long used by groups like REACT
                  and for businesses for that matter. Just because the radio
                  manufacturers have been marketing it for family use lately does not
                  make it so. So why don't you look before you leap.
                • John H. Guetherman
                  THE FCC AND MOST EOC S DO NOT RECOGNIZE GMRS AS A FORM OF EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL. Not true. Back when GMRS licensee s were
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 23, 2003
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                    "THE FCC AND MOST EOC'S DO NOT RECOGNIZE GMRS AS A FORM OF EMERGENCY
                    COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL."

                    Not true. Back when GMRS licensee's were limited to one or two
                    channel pairs and the 7 interstital channels, (and not all the
                    channels as we are authorized now) if you were not specifically
                    authorized the 675 channel or channel pair, you were restricted by
                    the FCC's regulations to using it solely for emergency and traveler's
                    assistance communications. They chose it because it was the most
                    common channel pair used by REACT nationwide. I don't recall the
                    second most common, the PRSG may have that info in it's archives.

                    REACT has used it for many years in place of CB for their various
                    communications needs. It's an excellant tool for local communications
                    without the problems with skip, linear amplifiers, and the many other
                    stereotypical negative operating habits you'll find on CB radio.
                    (Personally, I feel that we need to get more responsible operators
                    who follow the rules and set a good example through their operating
                    habits *back* on the CBRS. The decent operators have mostly abandoned
                    it and there's very, very few left to counter the idiots who stayed.)

                    And I have to strongly disagree with you regarding emergency
                    communications not having any place in the GMRS, or the FRS, or the
                    MURS, or even in CB. First, these radio services are available to the
                    general public, with only the GMRS having any licensing cost
                    associated to it (unlike Ham radio which requires an exam), and they
                    are an excellant way to exchange critical public safety information
                    to and from the general public in the event of a natural or man-made
                    disaster, as well as for establishing localized neighborhood radio
                    networks for neighbors to assist each other.

                    Secondly, there will always be those who don't want to take the time
                    to study for a Ham license for whatever reason, or who don't like
                    Hams for whatever reason and don't want to be associated with them in
                    any way, but who may still be interested in providing a needed
                    service to their community. The Part 95 Personal Radio Services can
                    help them to provide that service. And if the Hams in
                    ARES/RACES/Skywarn can recognize this, they can tap into another
                    source of manpower and communications resources. The same goes for
                    goverment agencies, and private organizations such as the Red Cross
                    and the Salvation Army.

                    I absolutely support emergency and other forms of assistance
                    communications being conducted via the CBRS, FRS, GMRS, and the MURS,
                    in addition to the Amateur Radio Service.

                    And can you clarify which petition by R.K. Leef you're referring to?

                    John H. Guetherman
                    KB7MIB/WPXJ598
                    Peoria, AZ.
                  • Ed Greany
                    My goodness Bruce. First of all, I won t yell at the other readers as you did with your capitalization throughout your entire tirade. Emergency Communications
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 23, 2003
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                      My goodness Bruce. First of all, I won't yell at the other readers as you did with your capitalization throughout your entire tirade.

                      Emergency Communications doesn't translate into h-a-m or a-m-a-t-e-u-r. It translates into radio communications that gets an important message to a receiver in an efficient and accurate means. That might be cell phone or it might be C.B. radio. It might even be GMRS, marine, business, FRS, or any other frequency available. It might even be sign language or wig-wag. I know you're not old enough to know what that is so I'll not address it further.

                      You sound like a convert and now you are better than everyone else. Ham radio is fine and has been recognized for a back up in emergency operations for decades. Believe me, GMRS works just as good as any 440-band ham radio does.

                      I have ham radios (2M, 440, 220, etc.), GMRS, FRS, Marine, C.B., and business radios. The only one I don't own (yet) is MURS. Which one do I prefer? GMRS. Why? Because it is reliable, easy to use, my family can use it at will without having to study needless Morse code or electronics theory just to give me a message to bring home a loaf of bread for lunches. I own GMRS repeaters and ham repeaters. I use my GMRS repeater primarily for good clean efficient communications. Sure, I can use my amateur repeater or even simplex but I prefer GMRS.

                      Did I forget to mention I am a REACT member also - yes, one who uses GMRS for emergency communications. I accept emergency and non-emergency calls from private individuals and I am also a charter member of a Repeater Users Group and use a grandfathered license when I do. So what's the beef?

                      Everyone has their own personal choices about radio brands, mobile or HT, dual-band or single, fm or ssb or am, and everyone also has their own personal choices concerning the frequency or band they like to operate on. Please don't criticize me or anyone else for exercising that descretion.

                      GMRS is NOT suppose to be just for personal and family use as you quote. That's what FRS is for (Family use). GMRS is for General use which includes personal and family use but can also include business communications within the family if I owned a family business and made house calls for example. I admit that should probably be done on another frequency but it is perfectly legal to do so.

                      GMRS is an excellent tool to use during special events. For YEARS hams were afraid to give stastics during a race or walk-a-thon because the information was for profit-making purposes even for a non-profit organization. It has been relaxed somewhat from 30+ years ago but still, with GMRS, there is no risk and one can be totally comfortable mentioning who is in first place, by how much, and how much money they have had pledged if you wish. No fear of being in trouble with the FCC for doing this kind of communications. And why do we do special events? Why so we are prepared to communicate when a true emergency occurs.

                      So please, give GMRS a break. Use your GMRS license. Give your ham radio a rest every so often and many of those on the other end of the mic are your friends you just haven't met yet. I hope we can QSO some time on whatever radio we happen to cross paths on.

                      73

                      Ed Greany, KB6DOL/KAD6554
                      President, CREST REACT


                      bruce monroe <dc11082003@...> wrote:
                      GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR REACT !!!WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON'T YOU GUY'S UNDERSTAND??
                      IT SHOULD BE KEPT THAT WAY!!!!! WHY NOT SPEND ALL OF YOUR TIME PROMOTING THE HAM BANDS FOR SUCH USE? THAT'S WHAT IT IS FOR... THE FCC AND MOST EOC'S DO NOT RECOGNIZE GMRS AS A FORM OF EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL. GMRS IS NOW A BIG JOKE, THANKS TO THE PROLIFERATION OF FRS/GMRS COMBO UNITS, IT'S NO BETTER THAN CB. HOW ABOUT PUTTING ENERGY INTO BANNING FRS/GMRS COMBO UNITS????AS FOR NON PROFIT GROUPS...APPLY FOR A BUSINESS BAND LICENSE LIKE ALL OTHER NON-PROFITS HAVE TO DO!!! I PAID MY $75.00 FOR A GMRS LICENSE AND I STUDIED AND GOT A HAM LICENSE...SO CAN ALL THE REST OF THE WANNA BE EMERGENCY WORKERS IN REACT. AS FOR RK LEAF AND HIS PETITION, I WILL BE SENDING A LETTER REQUESTING THE FCC DENY THE PETITION..AND I WOULD HOPE OTHERS WILL DO THE SAME. PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY PERIOD!!!!THAT WHAT GMRS IS FOR.




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                    • Blake Bowers
                      ... EMERGENCY Bruce, Do you yell on the radio also?
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 24, 2003
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                        > GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!, NOT
                        EMERGENCY

                        Bruce,

                        Do you yell on the radio also?
                      • k5iq
                        Decaf, guy, definitely consider decaf. Bob WPXA535 K5IQ
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 24, 2003
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                          Decaf, guy, definitely consider decaf.

                          Bob
                          WPXA535
                          K5IQ
                        • Ed Greany
                          Mike, REACT and other groups are not out to save the world or anything else except perhaps a life. Why not give that some consideration in San Diego yourself
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 24, 2003
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                            Mike,

                            REACT and other groups are not out to save the world or anything else except perhaps a life. Why not give that some consideration in San Diego yourself by joining a group? I can give you a local name and phone number. They will welcome your participation.

                            I know San Diego very well - after all, I lived there most of my life (Clairemont, Pt. Loma, OB, PB, N. Park, etc.) GMRS is alive and well in S.D. as you know and I don't understand why you are blaming L.A. for infiltrating your community. You mention .675 and .625 as the culprits. Have you ever given consideration that radio waves travel both ways. Don't you think San Diego stations on Lyons, Palomar, etc. can be heard by your friends to the north of you. Radio waves do not honor county boundaries or city limits. The best thing is that you just might have good communications in both worlds if you apply yourself into the systems in place. (What did he say? Huh? I didn't understand that statement. Maybe he'll explain further.)

                            Let me explain what I mean. Take .675 for example. There is a Lyons repeater on .675 in San Diego operated by REACT of Southwestern REACT County. It is a very good machine and has a long time reputation of being monitored for your benefit in case you need emergency communications. The same is true in areas north of you. I won't say L.A. because actually, it doesn't work in L.A. that well due to the geographical hills and giant hi-rises. Let's say it covers Orange County, Riverside and San Dernardino Counties and portions of L.A. County. This repeater is high atop Santiago Mountain and is managed by the CREST REACT team headquartered in Corona. This repeater is used by the Repeater Users Group and other personal subscribers. It is always available for emergency traffic to you. So basically, you are in touch from San Ysidro Mexican Border to Victorville/Edwards AFB area where the shuttle sometimes lands.

                            You say you enjoy fishing. Yes, Santiago covers to Avalon Bay in Catalina Island 26 miles from the L. A. coastline. This is called good radio communications and it doesn't come cheap.

                            The CREST team just spent over $5,000 last month installing a brand new repeater there and pays a hefty monthly site fee just so it is available if/when an emergency occurs. For this, out personal users only pay $5 per month.

                            Yes, you can get traffic reports on your car radio but where do you think they come from? Can a scanner tell you what lanes are blocked at an accident scene? No. Can a helo pilot for a radio station tell you? Yes, but he cannot be over ever scene all the time everywhere just to tell you. Can you radio in and ask for that information? Yes (under certain conditions). Can you report unfavorable commuter conditions? Yes, we encourage it. Are there other uses for GMRS? Of course and we are always open to those including allowing temporary personal use when our licensed GMRS friends are visiting the area from out of the area. We offer many REACT members visiting Disneyland temporary use of a repeater and assist them on our Southern California freeway system to find their way to their destination.

                            Concluding, (if you are still with me), I see no reason why residents of San Diego can't get along with residents of other counties to the north of you. I suppose it is a good thing Mexico is to the south of you and GMRS is not allowed in Mexico otherwise you would be complaining in that direction also.

                            Incidentally, do you realize to the East of you is Glamis Sand Dunes in Imperial County. The CREST team also owns a repeater which covers the dunes while no other public system does including many cell phones? I can actually communicate on a H.T. from your L.A. area as you call it to Glamis using a GMRS repeater (not Santiago). We have actually saved lives doing so when on holiday weekends there are many serious accidents involving sand buggies there. Now that is what I call a good communications system so why do you complain so loudly when this is all available to you? As a last resort, the FCC has given you SIX additional GMRS frequencies if you find you simply can't stand .625 or .675. I hope you find what you are looking for. Incidentally, many of us REACTers "ARE" hams and members of RACES.

                            Ed Greany, KB6DOL/KAD6554
                            President, CREST REACT Team

                            stepperspcs <stepperspcs@...> wrote:
                            Here's a nasty thought that will get me flamed to the nether
                            regions...

                            Why dont the REACT and other "save the world" groups on GMRS join
                            ARES or RACES on HAM. Let the hacks, hack away on GMRS and let
                            the "world savers" save the world with WELL established Ham groups.

                            If I want a traffic report, I can hear it every 15 minutes on a FM
                            station. No need for GMRS self indulgence. As for reporting traffic
                            problems to the CHP... CELL PHONES, there are more cell phone users
                            that will call the CHP than RUG or REACT members on So Cal Highways.
                            LAW OF LARGE NUMBERS.

                            I live in San Diego and as my gripes have been responded to very
                            diplomatically by Ed last month regarding LA interference in San
                            Diego on .675. Now LA people are over-running .625 in San Diego. So
                            as a "general" user in San Diego Ive lost one open channel to LA and
                            on .675 all we get is LA stuff.

                            So.. when does information for one group of people become HARMFULL
                            INTERFERENCE for the legitimate users several counties away??

                            Mike



                            --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, Ed Greany wrote:
                            > My goodness Bruce. First of all, I won't yell at the other readers
                            as you did with your capitalization throughout your entire tirade.
                            >
                            > Emergency Communications doesn't translate into h-a-m or a-m-a-t-e-
                            u-r. It translates into radio communications that gets an important
                            message to a receiver in an efficient and accurate means. That might
                            be cell phone or it might be C.B. radio. It might even be GMRS,
                            marine, business, FRS, or any other frequency available. It might
                            even be sign language or wig-wag. I know you're not old enough to
                            know what that is so I'll not address it further.
                            >
                            > You sound like a convert and now you are better than everyone
                            else. Ham radio is fine and has been recognized for a back up in
                            emergency operations for decades. Believe me, GMRS works just as
                            good as any 440-band ham radio does.
                            >
                            > I have ham radios (2M, 440, 220, etc.), GMRS, FRS, Marine, C.B.,
                            and business radios. The only one I don't own (yet) is MURS. Which
                            one do I prefer? GMRS. Why? Because it is reliable, easy to use, my
                            family can use it at will without having to study needless Morse
                            code or electronics theory just to give me a message to bring home a
                            loaf of bread for lunches. I own GMRS repeaters and ham repeaters. I
                            use my GMRS repeater primarily for good clean efficient
                            communications. Sure, I can use my amateur repeater or even simplex
                            but I prefer GMRS.
                            >
                            > Did I forget to mention I am a REACT member also - yes, one who
                            uses GMRS for emergency communications. I accept emergency and non-
                            emergency calls from private individuals and I am also a charter
                            member of a Repeater Users Group and use a grandfathered license
                            when I do. So what's the beef?
                            >
                            > Everyone has their own personal choices about radio brands, mobile
                            or HT, dual-band or single, fm or ssb or am, and everyone also has
                            their own personal choices concerning the frequency or band they
                            like to operate on. Please don't criticize me or anyone else for
                            exercising that descretion.
                            >
                            > GMRS is NOT suppose to be just for personal and family use as you
                            quote. That's what FRS is for (Family use). GMRS is for General use
                            which includes personal and family use but can also include business
                            communications within the family if I owned a family business and
                            made house calls for example. I admit that should probably be done
                            on another frequency but it is perfectly legal to do so.
                            >
                            > GMRS is an excellent tool to use during special events. For YEARS
                            hams were afraid to give stastics during a race or walk-a-thon
                            because the information was for profit-making purposes even for a
                            non-profit organization. It has been relaxed somewhat from 30+ years
                            ago but still, with GMRS, there is no risk and one can be totally
                            comfortable mentioning who is in first place, by how much, and how
                            much money they have had pledged if you wish. No fear of being in
                            trouble with the FCC for doing this kind of communications. And why
                            do we do special events? Why so we are prepared to communicate when
                            a true emergency occurs.
                            >
                            > So please, give GMRS a break. Use your GMRS license. Give your ham
                            radio a rest every so often and many of those on the other end of
                            the mic are your friends you just haven't met yet. I hope we can QSO
                            some time on whatever radio we happen to cross paths on.
                            >
                            > 73
                            >
                            > Ed Greany, KB6DOL/KAD6554
                            > President, CREST REACT
                            >
                            >
                            > bruce monroe wrote:
                            > GMRS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PERSONAL AND FAMILY USE ONLY!!!!!!!,
                            NOT EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS, NOT COMMUNITY SERVICE GROUPS OR
                            REACT !!!WHAT PART OF FAMILY AND PERSONAL USE DON'T YOU GUY'S
                            UNDERSTAND??
                            > IT SHOULD BE KEPT THAT WAY!!!!! WHY NOT SPEND ALL OF YOUR TIME
                            PROMOTING THE HAM BANDS FOR SUCH USE? THAT'S WHAT IT IS FOR... THE
                            FCC AND MOST EOC'S DO NOT RECOGNIZE GMRS AS A FORM OF EMERGENCY
                            COMMUNICATIONS, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL. GMRS IS NOW A BIG
                            JOKE, THANKS TO THE PROLIFERATION OF FRS/GMRS COMBO UNITS, IT'S NO
                            BETTER THAN CB. HOW ABOUT PUTTING ENERGY INTO BANNING FRS/GMRS COMBO
                            UNITS????AS FOR NON PROFIT GROUPS...APPLY FOR A BUSINESS BAND
                            LICENSE LIKE ALL OTHER NON-PROFITS HAVE TO DO!!! I PAID MY $75.00
                            FOR A GMRS LICENSE AND I STUDIED AND GOT A HAM LICENSE...SO CAN ALL
                            THE REST OF THE WANNA BE EMERGENCY WORKERS IN REACT. AS FOR RK LEAF
                            AND HIS PETITION, I WILL BE SENDING A LETTER REQUESTING THE FCC DENY
                            THE PETITION..AND I WOULD HOPE OTHERS WILL DO THE SAME. PERSONAL AND
                            FAMILY USE ONLY PERIOD!!!!THAT WHAT GMRS IS FOR.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • milcom@softhome.net
                            First off... Ed! WTF is with quoting Bruce s entire post in your reply!!!? What a waste! Get with the program mister... Secondly... I don t have a problem
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 26, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              First off... Ed! WTF is with quoting Bruce's entire
                              post in your reply!!!? What a waste! Get with the
                              program mister...

                              Secondly... I don't have a problem with REACT (other than
                              I've met some real assholios therein) using GMRS as long as
                              EACH person that's going to be "using" the allocation has a
                              bought and paid for GMRS license! Unless they, of course,
                              are IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS of a GMRS license holder, as per
                              the GMRS rules (as I read them), otherwise I'd be tempted to
                              have my employers and friends use it under MY license.
                              (now wouldn't THAT be a Cluster F*) Can you say "11-meters" ?

                              Yet another Bruce...
                              KB6LWN/WPXY958/KDX9626/49C6GT

                              PS: Bruce! STOP YELLING!!!!
                            • Ed Greany
                              Sir, If you only knew what program I am really with. Sorry, can t tell you but believe me, I m with it! Ghees, you get a GMRS license 2 weeks ago and now
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 26, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Sir,
                                If you only knew what program I am really with. Sorry, can't tell you but believe me, I'm with it! Ghees, you get a GMRS license 2 weeks ago and now you're out to impress the world.

                                Your second statement is obviously a lie. You DO have a problem with REACT otherwise you wouldn't bring up the fact there are A_ _H_ _ _ _ s therein.I'm sure you would find those with whom you cannot get along with in ANY organization you happen to belong to. Meanwhile, you tied that statement in with a following statement about using allocated frequencies and being licensed, etc., etc. I have no idea what you are babbling on about. Oh, and yes, I can say 11-meters. I'm sure I was using 11-meters 20 years before you were a gleam in someone's eye.

                                Ed, KB6DOL/KAD6554
                                (Not impressed with arm-length callsigns or credentials either)

                                milcom@... wrote:

                                First off... Ed! WTF is with quoting Bruce's entire
                                post in your reply!!!? What a waste! Get with the
                                program mister...

                                Secondly... I don't have a problem with REACT (other than
                                I've met some real assholios therein) using GMRS as long as
                                EACH person that's going to be "using" the allocation has a
                                bought and paid for GMRS license! Unless they, of course,
                                are IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS of a GMRS license holder, as per
                                the GMRS rules (as I read them), otherwise I'd be tempted to
                                have my employers and friends use it under MY license.
                                (now wouldn't THAT be a Cluster F*) Can you say "11-meters" ?

                                Yet another Bruce...
                                KB6LWN/WPXY958/KDX9626/49C6GT

                                PS: Bruce! STOP YELLING!!!!





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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • milcom@softhome.net
                                Well Greeny, Since you have only 14 years on me, you d have had to be involved in CB 5+ years before conception (or were you hatched under a rock?!) in order
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 27, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well Greeny,

                                  Since you have only 14 years on me, you'd have had to be
                                  involved in CB 5+ years before conception (or were you hatched
                                  under a rock?!) in order to make your boast. I had my first CB
                                  at age 12, so you MAY have been involved before I was.. BFD!

                                  As for the AH's in REACT, I didn't mention any names, but
                                  you've very effectivly made at least ONE of them known.
                                  And the fact that you were a tin-canner doesn't impress
                                  me one little bit more than ANY others that served in
                                  different branches. Another BFD!

                                  The term 'braggard' comes to mind as fitting you VERY well!

                                  As for those in react that I have a problem with ?
                                  One (see above) is YOU! And another is the rude SOB
                                  that treated me like shite when I went to the #REACT
                                  channel and asked for information on how to join!
                                  More than likely I got that treatment because I was
                                  using my AR call as a nick, so I can only conclude
                                  that the same mentality is held by more than ONE in
                                  the ranks of react. Kind of fits right in hand with
                                  the '(C)hannel (B)oss' attitude I've heard so often
                                  on 11-meters.

                                  Two cases in point!

                                  I've wasted enough keystrokes on you...
                                  And bothered others on the list with this!
                                  (for the later I apologize)

                                  End Of Line!


                                  On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Ed Greany wrote:

                                  > If you only knew what program I am really with. Sorry,

                                  (About as sorry as batshit!)
                                • Richard
                                  Man, I can t believe how mean-spirited people are, on this list. Here I am, trying to learn what I can about GMRS, and I much of what I see are personal
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 27, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Man, I can't believe how mean-spirited people are, on this list. Here I am,
                                    trying to learn what I can about GMRS, and I much of what I see are personal
                                    attacks. This list has deteriorated to the point where there is very little
                                    useful information posted, so it may well be the point where I will
                                    unsubscribe.

                                    Richard
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: milcom@... [mailto:milcom@...]
                                    Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:04 PM
                                    To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [GMRS] Re: GMRS Emergency Radio Communications



                                    Well Greeny,

                                    Since you have only 14 years on me, you'd have had to be
                                    involved in CB 5+ years before conception (or were you hatched
                                    under a rock?!) in order to make your boast. I had my first CB
                                    at age 12, so you MAY have been involved before I was.. BFD!

                                    As for the AH's in REACT, I didn't mention any names, but
                                    you've very effectivly made at least ONE of them known.
                                    And the fact that you were a tin-canner doesn't impress
                                    me one little bit more than ANY others that served in
                                    different branches. Another BFD!

                                    The term 'braggard' comes to mind as fitting you VERY well!

                                    As for those in react that I have a problem with ?
                                    One (see above) is YOU! And another is the rude SOB
                                    that treated me like shite when I went to the #REACT
                                    channel and asked for information on how to join!
                                    More than likely I got that treatment because I was
                                    using my AR call as a nick, so I can only conclude
                                    that the same mentality is held by more than ONE in
                                    the ranks of react. Kind of fits right in hand with
                                    the '(C)hannel (B)oss' attitude I've heard so often
                                    on 11-meters.

                                    Two cases in point!

                                    I've wasted enough keystrokes on you...
                                    And bothered others on the list with this!
                                    (for the later I apologize)

                                    End Of Line!


                                    On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Ed Greany wrote:

                                    > If you only knew what program I am really with. Sorry,

                                    (About as sorry as batshit!)


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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • eebie38
                                    Don t let it get to you. Spats like these happen now and then, and then we move on. Its the benefit of being allowed to have an opinion. Most of us are
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 28, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Don't let it get to you. Spats like these happen now and then, and
                                      then we move on. Its the "benefit" of being allowed to have an
                                      opinion. Most of us are good users/people and ocassionally some get
                                      out of hand. Thier ego gets put back into check and we're back in
                                      business!
                                      Chris
                                      wpuc675
                                      www.eebie38.com



                                      --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <crn@g...> wrote:
                                      > Man, I can't believe how mean-spirited people are, on this list.
                                      Here I am,
                                      > trying to learn what I can about GMRS, and I much of what I see are
                                      personal
                                      > attacks. This list has deteriorated to the point where there is
                                      very little
                                      > useful information posted, so it may well be the point where I will
                                      > unsubscribe.
                                      >
                                      > Richard
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: milcom@s... [mailto:milcom@s...]
                                      > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:04 PM
                                      > To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [GMRS] Re: GMRS Emergency Radio Communications
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Well Greeny,
                                      >
                                      > Since you have only 14 years on me, you'd have had to be
                                      > involved in CB 5+ years before conception (or were you hatched
                                      > under a rock?!) in order to make your boast. I had my first CB
                                      > at age 12, so you MAY have been involved before I was.. BFD!
                                      >
                                      > As for the AH's in REACT, I didn't mention any names, but
                                      > you've very effectivly made at least ONE of them known.
                                      > And the fact that you were a tin-canner doesn't impress
                                      > me one little bit more than ANY others that served in
                                      > different branches. Another BFD!
                                      >
                                      > The term 'braggard' comes to mind as fitting you VERY well!
                                      >
                                      > As for those in react that I have a problem with ?
                                      > One (see above) is YOU! And another is the rude SOB
                                      > that treated me like shite when I went to the #REACT
                                      > channel and asked for information on how to join!
                                      > More than likely I got that treatment because I was
                                      > using my AR call as a nick, so I can only conclude
                                      > that the same mentality is held by more than ONE in
                                      > the ranks of react. Kind of fits right in hand with
                                      > the '(C)hannel (B)oss' attitude I've heard so often
                                      > on 11-meters.
                                      >
                                      > Two cases in point!
                                      >
                                      > I've wasted enough keystrokes on you...
                                      > And bothered others on the list with this!
                                      > (for the later I apologize)
                                      >
                                      > End Of Line!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Ed Greany wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > If you only knew what program I am really with. Sorry,
                                      >
                                      > (About as sorry as batshit!)
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      Service.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • a049806t
                                      ... Yeah, don t unsubscribe. There is a lot of useful information here. The thing I don t like is the hall monitor attitude you get sometimes where people
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 28, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "eebie38" <eebie38@y...> wrote:
                                        > Don't let it get to you. Spats like these happen now and then, and
                                        > then we move on. Its the "benefit" of being allowed to have an


                                        Yeah, don't unsubscribe. There is a lot of useful information here.
                                        The thing I don't like is the hall monitor attitude you get sometimes
                                        where people blurt out laws at you in an rather unwelcoming manner
                                        rather than make friendly suggestions on how to comply with the
                                        regulations.
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