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Repeater Broadcast Question

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  • David
    Hello all, I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and repeater owner.
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 1, 2008
      Hello all,
      I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS
      repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and
      repeater owner. After reading the GMRS rules several times, just
      looking for some input from other "GMRS PRO'S".
      I currently re-broadcast NWS EAS bulletons on my amateur radio
      repeaters with an EAS interface similar to the WD-100 and others. When
      the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level that I
      want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert tone,
      broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
      FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
      allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
      anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS repeaters?
      Thanks
      David WQII 481
    • Mike Poole
      That sounds like a pretty cool use of a repeater!
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 1, 2008
        That sounds like a pretty cool use of a repeater!

        David wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello all,
        > I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS
        > repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and
        > repeater owner. After reading the GMRS rules several times, just
        > looking for some input from other "GMRS PRO'S".
        > I currently re-broadcast NWS EAS bulletons on my amateur radio
        > repeaters with an EAS interface similar to the WD-100 and others. When
        > the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level that I
        > want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert tone,
        > broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
        > FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
        > allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
        > anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS repeaters?
        > Thanks
        > David WQII 481
        >
        >
      • Chris Carruba
        Sec. 95.183 Prohibited communications. (a) A station operator must not communicate: (1) Messages for hire, whether the remuneration received is direct or
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 1, 2008
          Sec. 95.183 Prohibited communications.
          (a) A station operator must not communicate:
          (1) Messages for hire, whether the remuneration received is direct
          or indirect;
          (2) Messages in connection with any activity which is against
          Federal, State, or local law;
          (3) False or deceptive messages;
          (4) Coded messages or messages with hidden meanings (``10 codes''
          are permissible);
          (5) Intentional interference;
          (6) Music, whistling, sound effects or material to amuse or
          entertain;
          (7) Obscene, profane or indecent words, language or meaning;
          (8) Advertisements or offers for the sale of goods or services;
          (9) Advertisements for a political candidate or political campaign
          (messages about the campaign business may be communicated);
          (10) International distress signals, such as the word ``Mayday''
          (except when on a ship, aircraft or other vehicle in immediate danger to
          ask for help);

          [[Page 525]]

          (11) Programs (live or delayed) intended for radio or television
          station broadcast;
          (12) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and
          transmitted by a GMRS station;
          (13) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the
          Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign
          station;
          (14) Continuous or uninterrupted transmissions, except for
          communications involving the immediate safety of life or property;
          (15) Messages for public address systems.
          (b) A station operator in a GMRS system licensed to a telephone
          answering service must not transmit any communications to customers of
          the telephone answering service.

          [63 FR 68976, Dec. 14, 1998]

          Appendix A to Subpart A to Part 95--Locations Where GMRS Is Regulated by
          the FCC
          Chris


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: David <n1roa@...>
          To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, August 1, 2008 9:57:39 AM
          Subject: [GMRS] Repeater Broadcast Question


          Hello all,
          I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS
          repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and
          repeater owner. After reading the GMRS rules several times, just
          looking for some input from other "GMRS PRO'S".
          I currently re-broadcast NWS EAS bulletons on my amateur radio
          repeaters with an EAS interface similar to the WD-100 and others. When
          the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level that I
          want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert tone,
          broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
          FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
          allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
          anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS repeaters?
          Thanks
          David WQII 481






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • fl_pi
          David, Since you ask..... I *MY* opinion, you are reading that rule incorrectly, and reading into it something that is NOT there. I think you need to re-read
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
            David,
            Since you ask.....
            I *MY* opinion, you are reading that rule incorrectly, and reading into
            it something that is NOT there.
            I think you need to re-read the rules and add into your reading the
            parts about authorized & unauthorized transmissions. (95.181 & 183 and
            others)
            The rules also further specify that communications on GMRS are TWO WAY
            communications.
            Again, IN MY OPINION, National Weather Service alert transmissions do
            NOT meet the criteria of EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS.
            You may disagree, you may do the transmissions regardless of what
            anyone tells you. You may even get away with it, at least for a while. But
            is your ego ready for the possibility of loss of BOTH your GMRS AND your ham
            license for a silly (in my opinion) gamble?
            I would not even go there.
            Good luck.
            Ed
            KG4KVO - Ham License
            WPQL630 - GMRS
            REACT International Life Member # 7
            ===============

            David writes:

            > Hello all,
            > I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS
            > repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and
            > repeater owner. After reading the GMRS rules several times, just
            > looking for some input from other "GMRS PRO'S".
            > I currently re-broadcast NWS EAS bulletons on my amateur radio
            > repeaters with an EAS interface similar to the WD-100 and others. When
            > the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level that I
            > want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert tone,
            > broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
            > FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
            > allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
            > anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS repeaters?
            > Thanks
            > David WQII 481
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
          • Ed Greany
            Excellent recommendation Ed. David, This alert transmission is basically what is know as broadcasting and is not allowed in the GMRS band. One way to get
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
              Excellent recommendation Ed.

              David,

              This alert transmission is basically what is know as "broadcasting" and is not allowed in the GMRS band.

              One way to get around this is to first initiate contact with a specific person. Once contact is made, you may say "Stand by for an alert message" and go ahead with your message "directed to your contact" but heard by all who are tuned in. This accomplishes the same purpose - get the word out to those who are listening - but does it in a legal manner.

              Ed Greany, KB6DOL / KAD6554
              Executive VP, REACT International, Inc.


              fl_pi <FL_PI@...> wrote:
              David,
              Since you ask.....
              I *MY* opinion, you are reading that rule incorrectly, and reading into
              it something that is NOT there.
              I think you need to re-read the rules and add into your reading the
              parts about authorized & unauthorized transmissions. (95.181 & 183 and
              others)
              The rules also further specify that communications on GMRS are TWO WAY
              communications.
              Again, IN MY OPINION, National Weather Service alert transmissions do
              NOT meet the criteria of EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS.
              You may disagree, you may do the transmissions regardless of what
              anyone tells you. You may even get away with it, at least for a while. But
              is your ego ready for the possibility of loss of BOTH your GMRS AND your ham
              license for a silly (in my opinion) gamble?
              I would not even go there.
              Good luck.
              Ed
              KG4KVO - Ham License
              WPQL630 - GMRS
              REACT International Life Member # 7
              ===============

              David writes:

              > Hello all,
              > I am a new member to this group and have a question. I am a GMRS
              > repeater owner and operator as well as a ham radio operator and
              > repeater owner. After reading the GMRS rules several times, just
              > looking for some input from other "GMRS PRO'S".
              > I currently re-broadcast NWS EAS bulletons on my amateur radio
              > repeaters with an EAS interface similar to the WD-100 and others. When
              > the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level that I
              > want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert tone,
              > broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
              > FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
              > allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
              > anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS repeaters?
              > Thanks
              > David WQII 481
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sam Kelley
              I have seen some of the bubble pack radios that have the weather service channels in them, I know they are not broadcasting, but you may be onto something. I
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
                I have seen some of the bubble pack radios that have the weather service channels in them, I know they are not broadcasting, but you may be onto something. I have heard a few ham machines that have the weather alert service on them. Has anybody every sent a letter asking would the FCC allow this to occur on GMRS?

                Sam
                wqgi744
                ke5mid



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Piche
                I have sent one to them but who knows when they will actually be able to reply. David ... From: Sam Kelley Subject: Re: [GMRS] Repeater
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 6, 2008
                  I have sent one to them but who knows when they will actually be able to reply.
                  David

                  --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Sam Kelley <twowheel56@...> wrote:

                  From: Sam Kelley <twowheel56@...>
                  Subject: Re: [GMRS] Repeater Broadcast Question
                  To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 3:52 PM






                  I have seen some of the bubble pack radios that have the weather service channels in them, I know they are not broadcasting, but you may be onto something. I have heard a few ham machines that have the weather alert service on them. Has anybody every sent a letter asking would the FCC allow this to occur on GMRS?

                  Sam
                  wqgi744
                  ke5mid

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • rds_6
                  ... that I ... tone, ... repeaters? ... Even assuming arguendo that re-broadcast of NOAA all-hazards radio doesn t itself violate Part 95, how do you assure
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 6, 2008
                    > > When
                    > > the station receives the proper FIPS or SAME codes to the level
                    that I
                    > > want, it will "take over" the repeater, send the proper alert
                    tone,
                    > > broadcast the emergency message and reset automatically.
                    > > FCC Part 95.143, from what I can tell describes the same type of
                    > > allowance as the one for amateur broadcast. That said, is there
                    > > anything that should stop me from doing this alert on my GMRS
                    repeaters?
                    > > Thanks
                    > > David WQII 481

                    Even assuming arguendo that re-broadcast of NOAA all-hazards radio
                    doesn't itself violate Part 95, how do you assure that this "take
                    over"
                    of the repeater does not violate 95.143(a) by failing to "cease
                    transmitting when the station operator of any station on the same
                    channel is communicating an emergency message (concerning the
                    immediate
                    protection of property or the safety of someone's life)?" After all,
                    the hazardous conditions that motivate tone signalling on NOAA all-
                    hazards radio would seem to increase the likelihood that a station
                    operator would have need to communicate an emergency message and
                    might be doing so when your "take over" occurs.

                    If people want to monitor NOAA all-hazards radio, they can buy radios
                    to do so. For example, I bought a SAME receiver for $3 at a local
                    thrift shop. One local non-Part-95 repeater changes its courtesy
                    beep
                    to a Morse code "W" during hazardous weather, which not only
                    encourages
                    brevity but also indicates users might want to monitor NOAA all-
                    hazards
                    broadcasts on NOAA frequencies using an appropriate receiver. Such
                    an
                    approach avoids the risk associated with automatic "take over" of a
                    repeater.
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