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Base / mobile unit

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  • Rod
    I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused. Here is my situation: I go out to the desert and ride dirt bikes a lot. In addition to simple
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 4, 2008
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      I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.

      Here is my situation:

      I go out to the desert and ride dirt bikes a lot. In addition to
      simple "play" riding I also compete in a variety of events. In
      addition to competing I am also involved in the setup, course
      mapping, checkpoint manning and end of event safety sweep.

      I carry a handheld GMRS radio with me in case I need to communicate
      back to base camp. Presently, base camp is also using a handheld
      radio.

      The problem is that the terrain is not flat. While the canyons and
      washes are generally not very deep the likihood of needing to
      communicate at a spot is directly proportional to the un-evenness of
      the terrain: no one breaks down going across flat smooth ground.

      What I really want is for base camp to have a radio with an external
      antenna that can have a little gain and get mounted on top of the RV
      so that it can have a few feet advantage over the terrain. High
      power is of little interest as there is no point in getting the
      signal out to the rider if he can't get a signal back.

      My understanding of the regulations are:

      FRS radios may NOT have removable antennas, but a GMRS radio may.

      A GMRS radio can operate on a FRS frequency but with a limit of 5
      watts.


      What I would really like to find is a base or "mobile" GMRS radio
      that has an antenna connector so that it can utilize an external
      antenna. I would also prefer that it operate from a 12 volt input so
      it can connect to the RV power. I would like it to otherwise be just
      like the handheld "blister pack" radios function wise.

      Do they exist?

      I see that there are commercial UHF radios that can be configured to
      operate on the GMRS frequencies. It appears, however, that these
      need to be programmed by the dealer to set one of the
      radio "channels" to a specific frequency. I also don't see any way
      of having these radios limit their power to 5 watts so they would not
      be legal to operate on the "FRS" frequencies.

      I am sure that I am not the first one who has wanted to do something
      like this. So how do you do it? How do you get a simple, user
      friendly GMRS base station?

      Rod
    • MiKeY
      a good radio to use for a base is either a TK-8180 or TK-880 both radios are Kenwoods i use the TK-8180 got all FRS and GMRS Channels on the radio and also
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 5, 2008
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        a good radio to use for a base is either a TK-8180 or TK-880 both
        radios are Kenwoods i use the TK-8180 got all FRS and GMRS Channels on
        the radio and also Busniness Freqs that we use to talk on

        --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rmcinnis@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.
        >
        > Here is my situation:
        >
        > I go out to the desert and ride dirt bikes a lot. In addition to
        > simple "play" riding I also compete in a variety of events. In
        > addition to competing I am also involved in the setup, course
        > mapping, checkpoint manning and end of event safety sweep.
        >
        > I carry a handheld GMRS radio with me in case I need to communicate
        > back to base camp. Presently, base camp is also using a handheld
        > radio.
        >
        > The problem is that the terrain is not flat. While the canyons and
        > washes are generally not very deep the likihood of needing to
        > communicate at a spot is directly proportional to the un-evenness of
        > the terrain: no one breaks down going across flat smooth ground.
        >
        > What I really want is for base camp to have a radio with an external
        > antenna that can have a little gain and get mounted on top of the RV
        > so that it can have a few feet advantage over the terrain. High
        > power is of little interest as there is no point in getting the
        > signal out to the rider if he can't get a signal back.
        >
        > My understanding of the regulations are:
        >
        > FRS radios may NOT have removable antennas, but a GMRS radio may.
        >
        > A GMRS radio can operate on a FRS frequency but with a limit of 5
        > watts.
        >
        >
        > What I would really like to find is a base or "mobile" GMRS radio
        > that has an antenna connector so that it can utilize an external
        > antenna. I would also prefer that it operate from a 12 volt input so
        > it can connect to the RV power. I would like it to otherwise be just
        > like the handheld "blister pack" radios function wise.
        >
        > Do they exist?
        >
        > I see that there are commercial UHF radios that can be configured to
        > operate on the GMRS frequencies. It appears, however, that these
        > need to be programmed by the dealer to set one of the
        > radio "channels" to a specific frequency. I also don't see any way
        > of having these radios limit their power to 5 watts so they would not
        > be legal to operate on the "FRS" frequencies.
        >
        > I am sure that I am not the first one who has wanted to do something
        > like this. So how do you do it? How do you get a simple, user
        > friendly GMRS base station?
        >
        > Rod
        >
      • Skip Sanders
        ... of ... external ... RV ... Uh, no. The FRS limit is .5, that s 1 half watt, not 5 watts. Also, GMRS stations are not permitted to communicate with FRS
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 5, 2008
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          --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rmcinnis@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.
          >
          > Here is my situation:
          >
          > I go out to the desert and ride dirt bikes a lot. In addition to
          > simple "play" riding I also compete in a variety of events. In
          > addition to competing I am also involved in the setup, course
          > mapping, checkpoint manning and end of event safety sweep.
          >
          > I carry a handheld GMRS radio with me in case I need to communicate
          > back to base camp. Presently, base camp is also using a handheld
          > radio.
          >
          > The problem is that the terrain is not flat. While the canyons and
          > washes are generally not very deep the likihood of needing to
          > communicate at a spot is directly proportional to the un-evenness
          of
          > the terrain: no one breaks down going across flat smooth ground.
          >
          > What I really want is for base camp to have a radio with an
          external
          > antenna that can have a little gain and get mounted on top of the
          RV
          > so that it can have a few feet advantage over the terrain. High
          > power is of little interest as there is no point in getting the
          > signal out to the rider if he can't get a signal back.
          >
          > My understanding of the regulations are:
          >
          > FRS radios may NOT have removable antennas, but a GMRS radio may.
          >
          > A GMRS radio can operate on a FRS frequency but with a limit of 5
          > watts.

          Uh, no. The FRS limit is .5, that's 1 half watt, not 5 watts.

          Also, GMRS stations are not permitted to communicate with FRS
          stations as GMRS stations. So, a GMRS/FRS unit can communicate, but
          only if it is itself following FRS rules, which means, no external
          antenna even possible, and using 1 half watt on an FRS channel.

          A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels GMRS
          shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
          channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.

          Sec. 95.101 What the license authorizes.

          (a) A GMRS license authorizes a GMRS station to transmit messages
          to other GMRS stations at any geographical location within or over
          the territorial limits of any area where radio services are regulated
          by the FCC. These points are listed in Appendix A.
          (b) The license does not authorize operation as a common carrier
          or communication of messages for pay.
        • Sarge
          Rod, I think most of the Motorola mobile radios can have the power levels set with the software when they are programmed. Then you can use a mobile antenna on
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 5, 2008
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            Rod,
            I think most of the Motorola mobile radios can have the power levels set
            with the software when they are programmed. Then you can use a mobile
            antenna on the RV or use a small mast and a GMRS ground plane. I bought a
            nice ground plane for mine from ebay. It's very small and light weight and
            works great on base.

            Sarge WQHX869.

            p.s. Remember everyone has to be licensed.
          • Ray_Vaughan_99
            ... GMRS shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units. Actually, GMRS users
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 5, 2008
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              --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@...> wrote:
              > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
              GMRS shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
              channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.

              Actually, GMRS users CAN legally talk to FRS users. See the Opinion
              and Order below.

              Before the
              FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
              Washington, D. C. 20554

              In the Matter of ) WT Docket No. 95-102
              ) RM-8499
              Amendment of Part 95 of the )
              Commission's Rules to )
              Establish a Very Short Distance )
              Two-Way Voice Radio Service )

              MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER

              Adopted: October 30, 1998 Released: November 9, 1998

              By the Commission:

              [...]

              25. We agree it is very likely that GMRS stations and FRS units, when
              they hear each other, will communicate with each other. We also
              believe that allowing GMRS stations and FRS units to exchange messages
              on the seven channels they share, particularly in emergency
              situations, furthers our goals of maximizing efficient use of the
              radio spectrum and promoting public safety. However, we find it
              unnecessary to amend the rules as Trahos suggests. The rules to which
              Trahos cites as prohibiting GMRS stations from communicating with FRS
              units do not apply to the classes of GMRS land stations that are
              authorized to transmit on channels that are shared with FRS units.
              GMRS stations, which are authorized by rule to share the 462 MHz
              interstitial channels with FRS units, are mobile stations and small
              base stations transmitting voice type emissions with relatively low
              power. Typically, these stations are transmitting the same type of
              communications as FRS units. The rules already permit GMRS station
              operators to transmit the same messages as FRS units and GMRS stations
              are not prohibited from communicating with FRS units. Nevertheless, we
              clarify, that GMRS and FRS units operating on the same frequencies may
              communicate with each other if the individual operators so choose.
            • Sarge
              Exactly! This was so CERT, REACT and ARES can use FRS GMRS in emergencies.
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 5, 2008
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                Exactly! This was so CERT, REACT and ARES can use FRS GMRS in emergencies.
                >
                > Actually, GMRS users CAN legally talk to FRS users. See the Opinion
                > and Order below.
                >
                > Before the
                > FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
                > Washington, D. C. 20554
                >
                > In the Matter of ) WT Docket No. 95-102
                > ) RM-8499
                > Amendment of Part 95 of the )
                > Commission's Rules to )
                > Establish a Very Short Distance )
                > Two-Way Voice Radio Service )
                >
                > MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER
                >
                > Adopted: October 30, 1998 Released: November 9, 1998
                >
                > By the Commission:
                >
                > [...]
                >
                > 25. We agree it is very likely that GMRS stations and FRS units, when
                > they hear each other, will communicate with each other. We also
                > believe that allowing GMRS stations and FRS units to exchange messages
                > on the seven channels they share, particularly in emergency
                > situations, furthers our goals of maximizing efficient use of the
                > radio spectrum and promoting public safety. However, we find it
                > unnecessary to amend the rules as Trahos suggests. The rules to which
                > Trahos cites as prohibiting GMRS stations from communicating with FRS
                > units do not apply to the classes of GMRS land stations that are
                > authorized to transmit on channels that are shared with FRS units.
                > GMRS stations, which are authorized by rule to share the 462 MHz
                > interstitial channels with FRS units, are mobile stations and small
                > base stations transmitting voice type emissions with relatively low
                > power. Typically, these stations are transmitting the same type of
                > communications as FRS units. The rules already permit GMRS station
                > operators to transmit the same messages as FRS units and GMRS stations
                > are not prohibited from communicating with FRS units. Nevertheless, we
                > clarify, that GMRS and FRS units operating on the same frequencies may
                > communicate with each other if the individual operators so choose.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1256 - Release Date: 2/2/2008
                > 1:50 PM
                >
                >
              • ka1jfy
                You are NOT interested in a Base Station ! Base Stations are at fixed locations. Any number of handheld radios have antenna connectors that are suitable for
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 6, 2008
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                  You are NOT interested in a 'Base Station'!
                  'Base Stations' are at fixed locations.

                  Any number of handheld radios have antenna connectors that are
                  suitable for connecting external antennas. Then get yourself a UHF
                  magnetic mount antenna with cable and a matching connector.

                  Most mobile radios are 'high powered' compared to handhelds.

                  An external antenna on a handheld is a cheap way to do what you want.

                  Walter, WPXP269


                  --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rmcinnis@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.
                  >
                  >SNIP>

                  like this. So how do you do it? How do you get a simple, user
                  > friendly GMRS base station?
                  >
                  > Rod
                  >
                • Ben
                  I don t think its necessarily bad to have a mobile radio rather than a handheld at the fixed location, putting out more power than those out in the field. A
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 6, 2008
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                    I don't think its necessarily bad to have a mobile radio rather than a
                    handheld at the fixed location, putting out more power than those out in the
                    field. A good radio at one end of the link (better receiver!) can
                    compensate for a less stellar performer at the other end. And even if it
                    doesn't, the guy out in the field is in a far worse position to deal with
                    noisy communication and could benefit from a clear signal, even if you at
                    the fixed position have to struggle to hear them... In an emergency, two
                    people struggling to be heard is much worse than one person.

                    And the person at the fixed location who is communicating all day long will
                    surely appreciate a better speaker with cleaner audio.

                    Keep in mind that if you have got a 5 watt radio in the field and a 20 watt
                    radio at the fixed position, you are only looking at a 6 dB difference.

                    -Ben


                    On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 11:41:28PM -0000, ka1jfy wrote:
                    > You are NOT interested in a 'Base Station'!
                    > 'Base Stations' are at fixed locations.
                    >
                    > Any number of handheld radios have antenna connectors that are
                    > suitable for connecting external antennas. Then get yourself a UHF
                    > magnetic mount antenna with cable and a matching connector.
                    >
                    > Most mobile radios are 'high powered' compared to handhelds.
                    >
                    > An external antenna on a handheld is a cheap way to do what you want.
                    >
                    > Walter, WPXP269
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rmcinnis@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.
                    > >
                    > >SNIP>
                    >
                    > like this. So how do you do it? How do you get a simple, user
                    > > friendly GMRS base station?
                    > >
                    > > Rod
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • ka1jfy
                    *ONLY* 6 dB! That s a 4 times power factor! In the UHF world, that s monsterous. Man, there are times I fight for every 1/2 dB. I was just trying to get the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                      *ONLY* 6 dB!

                      That's a 4 times power factor!
                      In the UHF world, that's monsterous.

                      Man, there are times I fight for every 1/2 dB.

                      I was just trying to get the point across that an external antenna,
                      with some height, can be a cheap way to get a huge increase in range
                      from existing equipment.

                      Walter, WPXP269

                      --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, Ben <benspam@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't think its necessarily bad to have a mobile radio rather
                      than a
                      > handheld at the fixed location, putting out more power than those
                      out in the
                      > field. A good radio at one end of the link (better receiver!) can
                      > compensate for a less stellar performer at the other end. And even
                      if it
                      > doesn't, the guy out in the field is in a far worse position to
                      deal with
                      > noisy communication and could benefit from a clear signal, even if
                      you at
                      > the fixed position have to struggle to hear them... In an
                      emergency, two
                      > people struggling to be heard is much worse than one person.
                      >
                      > And the person at the fixed location who is communicating all day
                      long will
                      > surely appreciate a better speaker with cleaner audio.
                      >
                      > Keep in mind that if you have got a 5 watt radio in the field and a
                      20 watt
                      > radio at the fixed position, you are only looking at a 6 dB
                      difference.
                      >
                      > -Ben
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 11:41:28PM -0000, ka1jfy wrote:
                      > > You are NOT interested in a 'Base Station'!
                      > > 'Base Stations' are at fixed locations.
                      > >
                      > > Any number of handheld radios have antenna connectors that are
                      > > suitable for connecting external antennas. Then get yourself a
                      UHF
                      > > magnetic mount antenna with cable and a matching connector.
                      > >
                      > > Most mobile radios are 'high powered' compared to handhelds.
                      > >
                      > > An external antenna on a handheld is a cheap way to do what you
                      want.
                      > >
                      > > Walter, WPXP269
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Rod" <rmcinnis@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I am interested in a GMRS base station but I am really confused.
                      > > >
                      > > >SNIP>
                      > >
                      > > like this. So how do you do it? How do you get a simple, user
                      > > > friendly GMRS base station?
                      > > >
                      > > > Rod
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Sam Kelley
                      I bought a motorola SM50 (25watts)and a few portables on ebay and have them programmed to 600 and 625. I also have a 30ft push up pole that I put a cushcraft
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                        I bought a motorola SM50 (25watts)and a few portables on ebay and have them programmed to 600 and 625. I also have a 30ft push up pole that I put a cushcraft 6db antenna ontop. Works great when the family is out camping, hunting, etc... And the base/mobile only draws about 5amps when transmitting and all that cost me just under $500, well worth the results for me.

                        Sam
                        WQGI744


                        ---------------------------------
                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Campen
                        This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS channel and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can talk to him or if he is
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                          This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS channel
                          and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can talk to
                          him or if he is FRS whom I have to shun?

                          --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > ...
                          >
                          > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
                          > GMRS
                          > shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
                          > channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.
                          > ...
                        • Alvin Wong
                          GMRS users are supposed to ID themselves every 15 mins with their FCC issued call sign while transmitting. That s how you can tell the difference between a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                            GMRS users are supposed to ID themselves every 15 mins with their FCC
                            issued call sign while transmitting. That's how you can tell the
                            difference between a GMRS and FRS user, if I'm not mistaken.

                            --deevader

                            On Feb 7, 2008 12:03 PM, David Campen <dcampen@...> wrote:
                            > This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS channel
                            > and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can talk to
                            > him or if he is FRS whom I have to shun?
                            >
                            > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ...
                            > >
                            > > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
                            > > GMRS
                            > > shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
                            > > channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.
                            > > ...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Robert Koblish
                            ... You *can* talk to an FRS user on the shared channels. No need to shun them. Bob wpxz201 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                              On Feb 7, 2008 3:03 PM, David Campen <dcampen@...> wrote:

                              > This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS channel
                              > and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can talk to
                              > him or if he is FRS whom I have to shun?
                              >
                              > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ...
                              > >
                              > > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
                              > > GMRS
                              > > shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
                              > > channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.
                              > > ...
                              >
                              > David,
                              You *can* talk to an FRS user on the shared channels. No need to shun them.
                              Bob
                              wpxz201


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Walters
                              Hey good job Sam. Very nice. What materials and design type did you use for you mast? Is it collapsible (larger and smaller segments that fit inside each
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                                Hey good job Sam.

                                Very nice. What materials and design type did you use for you mast? Is it collapsible (larger and smaller segments that fit inside each other) or one that fits together end to end (like Radio Shack 5 ft mast sections)? What kind of range do you get, or perhaps you have not tested it limits as it suits all distance you have tried.

                                Stan WQFD736



                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Sam Kelley
                                To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:58 PM
                                Subject: Re: [GMRS] Re: Base / mobile unit


                                I bought a motorola SM50 (25watts)and a few portables on ebay and have them programmed to 600 and 625. I also have a 30ft push up pole that I put a cushcraft 6db antenna ontop. Works great when the family is out camping, hunting, etc... And the base/mobile only draws about 5amps when transmitting and all that cost me just under $500, well worth the results for me.

                                Sam
                                WQGI744

                                ---------------------------------
                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                              • Walters
                                Don t worry, that isn t the rule. A GMRS station operating on FRS 1-7 (the shared channels) under GMRS rules (less than 5 watts ERP and antenna no higher than
                                Message 15 of 17 , Feb 7, 2008
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                                  Don't worry, that isn't the rule. A GMRS station operating on FRS 1-7 (the shared channels) under GMRS rules (less than 5 watts ERP and antenna no higher than 20 feet above the structure it is mounted on) can talk to an FRS station operating under FRS rules. The GMRS operator simply IDs as he/she should (every 15 minutes or at the end of the transmission).

                                  If the other party is operating their radio outside of FRS rules (bubble pack set to hi power, etc) and the operator is NOT GMRS licensed, that's his problem and if you know they are not legal you can educate or turn them in. Nowhere does such a prohibition exist between GMRS and FRS users on the shared frequencies. IF you somehow do determine that the FRS station is NOT legal, then you stop communicating. You are not responsible for hwat you do not know.

                                  In the following Opinion and Order the FCC ruled regarding all these issues and denied several petitions to alter or clarify the rules stating that the rules define the situation satisfactorially already. I left out the beginning of the memo and have just section E below.Read on.

                                  Before the
                                  FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
                                  Washington, D. C. 20554

                                  In the Matter of ) WT Docket No. 95-102
                                  ) RM-8499
                                  Amendment of Part 95 of the )
                                  Commission's Rules to )
                                  Establish a Very Short Distance )
                                  Two-Way Voice Radio Service )


                                  MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER


                                  Adopted: October 30, 1998 Released: November 9, 1998

                                  By the Commission:



                                  E. Miscellaneous Issues

                                  24. GMRS/FRS Communication. Trahos and PRSG request that we amend the GMRS rules to
                                  clarify that GMRS mobile and small base stations are permitted to communicate with FRS units on their
                                  mutually authorized channels. Trahos is concerned that while FRS units and GMRS radio stations are
                                  authorized to operate on mutually permitted frequencies, Sections 95.59(c) and 95.61(b) of the rules appear to prohibit communications between these types of stations. Accordingly, Trahos requests that we eliminate the ambiguity between these rules by amending Section 95.53(e) of the rules to indicate
                                  that such communications are permitted. PRSG suggests that we amend two rule sections to clarify that
                                  FRS stations are not unauthorized stations for purposes of those rules. PRSG is concerned that, if a GMRS station were to communicate with a FRS unit that has been illegally modified, the GMRS station would be communicating with an unauthorized station.

                                  25. We agree it is very likely that GMRS stations and FRS units, when they hear each other, will
                                  communicate with each other. We also believe that allowing GMRS stations and FRS units to exchange
                                  messages on the seven channels they share, particularly in emergency situations, furthers our goals of
                                  maximizing efficient use of the radio spectrum and promoting public safety. However, we find it
                                  unnecessary to amend the rules as Trahos suggests. The rules to which Trahos cites as prohibiting GMRS stations from communicating with FRS units do not apply to the classes of GMRS land stations that are authorized to transmit on channels that are shared with FRS units. GMRS stations, which are authorized by rule to share the 462 MHz interstitial channels with FRS units, are mobile stations and small base stations transmitting voice type emissions with relatively low power. Typically, these stations are transmitting the same type of communications as FRS units. The rules already permit GMRS station
                                  operators to transmit the same messages as FRS units and GMRS stations are not prohibited from
                                  communicating with FRS units. Nevertheless, we clarify, that GMRS and FRS units operating on the same frequencies may communicate with each other if the individual operators so choose.

                                  26. We also do not believe it is necessary to amend Sections 95.53(e), 95.55(b), or 95.181(i) of
                                  the rules as PRSG suggests. If an FRS station is modified in violation of the rules, the responsible party is the individual operating the FRS unit, not the operator or licensee of a GMRS station receiving a radio signal from the modified FRS unit. The prohibition against communicating with an unauthorized station applies only to situations involving communications between a GMRS station and a station the GMRS operator knows to be unlicensed, not to communications between a GMRS station and a FRS unit the GMRS operator does not know has been modified.

                                  A review of the "GMRS chart" spreadsheet in the file section of the group quickly helps to identify the FCCs position. Additionally the sections quoted by the petitioneers no longer exits.

                                  Hope this helps, regards.

                                  Stan WQFD736



                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: David Campen
                                  To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:03 PM
                                  Subject: [GMRS] Re: Base / mobile unit


                                  This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS channel
                                  and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can talk to
                                  him or if he is FRS whom I have to shun?

                                  --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ...
                                  >
                                  > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
                                  > GMRS
                                  > shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the interstitial
                                  > channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.
                                  > ...






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                                • Skip Sanders
                                  ... channel ... talk to ... interstitial ... shun them. ... This is one of the wonderful things about the current state of the GMRS rules... they re in utter
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Feb 8, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Koblish" <rkoblish@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On Feb 7, 2008 3:03 PM, David Campen <dcampen@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > This is a curious rule. If I hear someone on a shared FRS/GMRS
                                    channel
                                    > > and I want to talk to him how do I know if he is GMRS and I can
                                    talk to
                                    > > him or if he is FRS whom I have to shun?
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "Skip Sanders" <skipsand@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > A GMRS unit can communicate to another GMRS unit on the channels
                                    > > > GMRS
                                    > > > shares with FRS at a 5 watt limit (the limit for the
                                    interstitial
                                    > > > channels), but is not allowed to communicate with FRS units.
                                    > > > ...
                                    > >
                                    > > David,
                                    > You *can* talk to an FRS user on the shared channels. No need to
                                    shun them.
                                    > Bob
                                    > wpxz201

                                    This is one of the 'wonderful' things about the current state of the
                                    GMRS rules... they're in utter disorder, after several major sets of
                                    changes that weren't properly coordinated, with rules referring to
                                    other rules that no longer exist, etc.

                                    The rules as I stated would be read to say 'no'. But the FCC, as
                                    someone else had notice of, has officially stated that 'We say it's
                                    ok now, but we can't be bothered to adjust the rules to say so'.

                                    So, apparently, unless criminal activity is involved or somesuch,
                                    it's ok. The GMRS station would be allowed 5 watts, while the FRS
                                    station is limited to its usual half watt.
                                  • Sam Kelley
                                    Thanks Stan, Its a metal three section channel master metal pole, it has the built in locks and wing type screws. Only takes about 10 minutes to put it up and
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Feb 9, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thanks Stan,

                                      Its a metal three section channel master metal pole, it has the built in locks and wing type screws. Only takes about 10 minutes to put it up and down. I have gotten a range of about 7 miles communicating with a handheld, and about 15miles with a mobile unit. Once I get to a park and people find out about my radio, its like Grand Central Station, never a dull moment.

                                      Sam
                                      WQGI744


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