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Re: [GMRS] Re: how far

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  • Michael Ormandy
    With both radios on fairly flat ground, you will probably NEVER see 14 mile range with UHF, given a 25 antenna height. That is virtually impossible, given
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2007
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      With both radios on fairly flat ground, you will probably NEVER see 14 mile range with UHF, given a 25' antenna height. That is virtually impossible, given that the line of sight is only 10 miles. Remember, UHF signals do not bend, skip, or penetrate the earth. With an excellent setup and a 40' high gain antenna, on pretty flat ground I can't get that range, in any direction, ever, although I can get close. That is because I am limited by the same thing everyone else will be, the earth's surface.

      When it comes to UHF range remember, antenna height, line of sight, antenna height, line of sight, antenna height, line of sight. Just keep saying that to yourselves. UHF does not reach over the horizon. Period.

      Google "line of sight calculator", put in the two antenna heights, and you will know what is POSSIBLE under ideal conditions. You will not exceed this distance with UHF. UNLESS one or both of the radios is on high ground, which effectively changes the antenna height above the surrounding terrain.

      Murs is limited to 2 watts, and you are not going to get much power out of an antenna with a long cable run with a 2 watt transmitter, so it will not have the range of GMRS because of this. Forget about MURS if you want that range. GMRS is the way to go, and again, the higher you get that antenna, the farther your range.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Skip Sanders <skipsand@...>
      To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:43:09 PM
      Subject: [GMRS] Re: how far


      --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "wew1953" <wew1953@...> wrote:
      >
      > am looking at gmrs and murs system need to be able to talk about 18 to
      > 25 miles moble to base will gmrs do that
      >
      1) If you're talking MURS, you're presumably wanting to use this for
      business. If it's not 'all in your family', GMRS is no longer a
      business service, so you should consider that. A 'real' business
      should be investigating local business communication services, with
      proper repeaters and such.

      2) Range is very tricky to figure reliably, but, the 'rule of thumb'
      for range is Range in miles = square root of antenna height in feet,
      for VERY reliable range. Remember to add the miles from BOTH ends,
      that is, if you have a 25' base antenna, (5 miles), and a mobile at 4',
      (2 miles), your high reliability range is 7 miles.

      You will routinely get double that range, at times, for 14 miles, but
      you can't be strongly sure of getting that. You may well get even a
      bit more.

      Of course, if your base antenna is 25' above ground, and said ground is
      at an altitude of 100 feet, at the top of a hill, the real range is
      from the 125', or 11 miles.

      All this is direct comms, and if you really need 15-25 mile range on
      GMRS (or business frequencies), you probably need to install a repeater
      somewhere on high ground that looks 'down' on the area you need to
      cover. Any GMRS licensee can put up a repeater, though you should be
      consulting with all other local users, especially repeater operators,
      before installing one, to prevent causing interference to already
      present ones.




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    • kvsp1160@aol.com
      I think in regards to GMRS, if you want to use a base system, all you d need is a good 6dB gain antenna on a 20 tower (or higher) and a 40w radio (either base
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 2, 2007
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        I think in regards to GMRS, if you want to use a base system, all you'd need
        is a good 6dB gain antenna on a 20' tower (or higher) and a 40w radio (either
        base or mobile setup).

        If you want a few mobile setups, a good 3-5dB gain mobile antenna with at
        least a 35w mobile radio is all you'd need.

        My mobile setup consists of a 3dB gain antenna and a 35w Icom F420 mobile. I
        can hit all local repeaters and all other mobile or HT's within a 8-10 mile
        radius. And I'm in a valley with hills and buildings. My lines are short, but I
        concentrate my power to where I need it to go and who I want to talk to.

        For my repeater, I had a computer model it's signal propagation with 40w at
        310' elev, using a 6dB gain base antenna. My results gave me a maximum radius
        of over 40 miles in any direction without obstruction to the hills or
        buildings.

        It all depends on what antenna, hardline, and radio equipment you choose to
        create your setup. The final is the result of your decision. You can view my
        charts and equipment pics on my website for more detailed info.

        73,
        Ryan Seregow - WPUI299
        Owner/Coordinator
        Bay Area Repeater Net
        San Jose, CA
        http://www.geocities.com/bayarearepeaternet/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wew1953
        i live in south east kansas and work in mimia ok. and by road it about 12 to 18 miles depen witch way you go am not sure how many air miles it is it is all
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 3, 2007
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          i live in south east kansas and work in mimia ok. and by road it about
          12 to 18 miles depen witch way you go am not sure how many air miles
          it is it is all flat land hear and i have room to go up to about 50 to
          60 feet with a ant.thir is no repeter in this ares other then 2 meter one
          so was thinking about gmrs or murs system base and two mobel with one
          hand helt. as need to be abeal to contack the base a few time aday to
          check on a family memeber that is in a whele chair when i was in the
          army we use vhf and had 20 to 30 mile range so frme the respon that i
          am seen on both gmrs and murs they are not that good for range othen
          then in your back yard
        • Walters
          MURS will not do what you want as power is limited to 2 Watts and NO REPEATERS. GMRS is your only hope other than HAM. The as-the-crow-flys or line of site
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 4, 2007
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            MURS will not do what you want as power is limited to 2 Watts and NO REPEATERS. GMRS is your only hope other than HAM. The "as-the-crow-flys" or line of site distance is the only number that counts with as much height as you can get.

            I83 runs almost due north/south in York County PA. My repeater is at mile 4. I can hit the repeater and have a converstaion from exit 16, that's 12 "drive" miles. Straight line a little less but the point is my 10 watt repeater makes the trip fine and I am using an IC-F21GM 4 watt handheld hooked to a nice gain mobile antenna from the car. True, it does not work in the valleys, at all, but on the hills it is great.

            You can setup a 45 watt base and 45 watt mobile for max power and probably make the trip. But a repeater somwhere in the middle would be better. A nice high antenna and each unit would only have to go 6 or 8 muiles and you would not need as much power on each end. Put the repeater closer to home and someone there could probably hit it with an HT and then a good mobile unit for your car.

            Well, just my thoughts. Others may have better ideas.

            Stan WQFD736



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: wew1953
            To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:17 PM
            Subject: [GMRS] how far


            i live in south east kansas and work in mimia ok. and by road it about
            12 to 18 miles depen witch way you go am not sure how many air miles
            it is it is all flat land hear and i have room to go up to about 50 to
            60 feet with a ant.thir is no repeter in this ares other then 2 meter one
            so was thinking about gmrs or murs system base and two mobel with one
            hand helt. as need to be abeal to contack the base a few time aday to
            check on a family memeber that is in a whele chair when i was in the
            army we use vhf and had 20 to 30 mile range so frme the respon that i
            am seen on both gmrs and murs they are not that good for range othen
            then in your back yard






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          • Michael Ormandy
            Murs with 2 watts is not going to do it. Just not enough power to send up a long feed line. GMRS with a 60 foot high antenna should give you a 14 mile range.
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 5, 2007
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              Murs with 2 watts is not going to do it. Just not enough power to send up a long feed line.

              GMRS with a 60 foot high antenna should give you a 14 mile range. That may work in your case. Check the air distance on a map.


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: wew1953 <wew1953@...>
              To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 10:17:59 AM
              Subject: [GMRS] how far


              i live in south east kansas and work in mimia ok. and by road it about
              12 to 18 miles depen witch way you go am not sure how many air miles
              it is it is all flat land hear and i have room to go up to about 50 to
              60 feet with a ant.thir is no repeter in this ares other then 2 meter one
              so was thinking about gmrs or murs system base and two mobel with one
              hand helt. as need to be abeal to contack the base a few time aday to
              check on a family memeber that is in a whele chair when i was in the
              army we use vhf and had 20 to 30 mile range so frme the respon that i
              am seen on both gmrs and murs they are not that good for range othen
              then in your back yard




              Yahoo! Groups Links





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Richard Hayman
              Use a repeater. I have two well located repeaters. Range is about 17 miles on each to 25 watt mobiles with good reliability. Sometimes I can get 30 miles
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 5, 2007
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                Use a repeater. I have two well located repeaters. Range is about 17
                miles on each to 25 watt mobiles with good reliability. Sometimes I
                can get 30 miles but that's rare. One repeater is about 150 feet up
                and the other is on a mountain top - elevation 1750' on a 100' tower.
                Repeaters are 35 miles apart.

                Count on 40% of that distance to handhelds.


                --- In GMRS@yahoogroups.com, "wew1953" <wew1953@...> wrote:
                >
                > am looking at gmrs and murs system need to be able to talk about 18 to
                > 25 miles moble to base will gmrs do that
                >
              • bill ward
                your ideal make more sence then what other have had so far Walters wrote: MURS will
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 5, 2007
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                  your ideal make more sence then what other have had so far

                  Walters <abacuspc@...> wrote: MURS will not do what you want as power is limited to 2 Watts and NO REPEATERS. GMRS is your only hope other than HAM. The "as-the-crow-flys" or line of site distance is the only number that counts with as much height as you can get.

                  I83 runs almost due north/south in York County PA. My repeater is at mile 4. I can hit the repeater and have a converstaion from exit 16, that's 12 "drive" miles. Straight line a little less but the point is my 10 watt repeater makes the trip fine and I am using an IC-F21GM 4 watt handheld hooked to a nice gain mobile antenna from the car. True, it does not work in the valleys, at all, but on the hills it is great.

                  You can setup a 45 watt base and 45 watt mobile for max power and probably make the trip. But a repeater somwhere in the middle would be better. A nice high antenna and each unit would only have to go 6 or 8 muiles and you would not need as much power on each end. Put the repeater closer to home and someone there could probably hit it with an HT and then a good mobile unit for your car.

                  Well, just my thoughts. Others may have better ideas.

                  Stan WQFD736

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: wew1953
                  To: GMRS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 1:17 PM
                  Subject: [GMRS] how far

                  i live in south east kansas and work in mimia ok. and by road it about
                  12 to 18 miles depen witch way you go am not sure how many air miles
                  it is it is all flat land hear and i have room to go up to about 50 to
                  60 feet with a ant.thir is no repeter in this ares other then 2 meter one
                  so was thinking about gmrs or murs system base and two mobel with one
                  hand helt. as need to be abeal to contack the base a few time aday to
                  check on a family memeber that is in a whele chair when i was in the
                  army we use vhf and had 20 to 30 mile range so frme the respon that i
                  am seen on both gmrs and murs they are not that good for range othen
                  then in your back yard

                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 1:30 AM

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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