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Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!

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  • claudine intexas
    Hi Dhava, I m glad your second injection was not as bad! Hopefully each will get easier. Yes, you should see a viral response by 3 months! In fact, a
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 28, 2001
      Hi Dhava,
      I'm glad your second injection was not as bad!
      Hopefully each will get easier.
      Yes, you should see a viral response by 3 months!
      In fact, a significant drop should be expected by 1
      month, although most doctors don't check. One lady in
      my local support group went undetectable at one WEEK.
      Her PCP accidentally included a PCR while doing other
      blood work or she would never have known. Of course,
      she was a genotype 3, and realistically, I don't think
      this could be expected of a genotype 1 or 4, or even
      of all 2s or 3s.
      I would continue with the milk thistle and
      Szchandra, and would also take vitamin E and C, and
      Selenium. Also a good B-complex. NO iron.
      There are some risks to interferon and ribavirin,
      but they tend to be greatly over stated often at
      various internet web sites I've seen. Treatment is not
      fun, but it is rarely truly dangerous for most people,
      especially if you have a good doctor who is monitoring
      you, and treating your side effects. The benefits
      greatly outweigh the risks!
      Good luck!
      Claudine

      > I wanted to thank everyone for your support this
      > last week. My 2nd injection
      > wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking
      > aspirin earlier on and that
      > seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first
      > injection site and on the
      > middle and index finger knuckles of both hands,
      > but it's not too bad.
      >
      > I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some
      > reduced viral load by
      > three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA
      > and "western medicine" in
      > general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as
      > extremely dangerous. I
      > believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of
      > the peg-intron; but if
      > they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP.
      > I worry about any
      > permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've
      > treated myself with Milk
      > Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's
      > any point to continue
      > taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.
      >
      > I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58
      > during two heart surgeries I
      > had at those times. I've grown up with rashes
      > (sensitive skin), degenerative
      > joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of
      > which seem to be linked to
      > hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.
      >
      > My best wishes to all, Dhava
      >
      >
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    • Uddhava Saradadasa
      I ll go back to my vitamin regimen and add a B-complex. I was concerned that I was just throwing money away if the interferon and riboviran was just killing
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
        I'll go back to my vitamin regimen and add a B-complex. I was concerned that
        I was just throwing money away if the interferon and riboviran was just
        killing them.

        Thanks for the info about clearance, I don't have a viral load scheduled
        until three months; but what you shared sure sounds hopeful!

        love, Dhava
      • AndromedaGurl
        Dhava, That s a long damn time to have hep C! Yeah I d say a lot of those symptoms are hep c related. It s possible to have an undetected viral load by the 3rd
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
          Dhava,

          That's a long damn time to have hep C! Yeah I'd say a lot of those symptoms
          are hep c related.

          It's possible to have an undetected viral load by the 3rd month, but if it
          isn't undetected then it doesn't mean it won't be nor that it won't stay
          undetected if and when you go. I know one lady who was so determined to get
          and stay undetected, she took interferon for 2 years and didn't go
          undetected till after the first year (she discontinued the ribavirin after
          the required 48 weeks) and she has been undetected for hep c now 3 years
          post treatment. So never say never!

          I don't blame you not wanting to get permanent damage from the treatment and
          a lot of people do get some kind of problems that continue after treatment.
          I know the medical brochures don't say that, but I talk to a lot of heppers
          online and at support groups and you're right, it's not an easy treatment.

          My thinking is that we each have to evaluate our situation and weigh the
          pros and cons and just hope we make the right decision. If, like me, you
          don't have a lot of liver damage, treatment might be something you don't
          want to do yet. Sometimes it is better to treat the symptoms and just watch
          the progress of the disease.

          I got the "riba rash" the last month of my treatment and it went away about
          a month after I finished. Then I got THIS rash which nobody knows what it is
          or why, so I'm doing another round of medications for weird stuff like
          scabies and a cortisone shot and some steriod medication. I have to admit, I
          didn't scratch once today so something is finally working after 5 miserable
          months of itching.

          Dhava I wish you the best. We'll support whatever decision you make about
          your treatment. Best to discuss it with your doc too. Let him/her know your
          thoughts and how it affects your health.

          Good luck!

          alley
        • AndromedaGurl
          Tat said
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
            Tat said <<Another thing that those of us with liver damage need to be
            careful of
            is Ginseng. I've read many articles about it not being good for people
            with liver damage even though it is excellent for everyone else.>>

            I haven't read anything too negative on ginseng except that it is a blood
            thinner. What info do you have?

            I ask cuz I take a lot of ginseng, gingko and mah huang (sp) so I can work.
            Otherwise I'm just a tired blob of human blubber lol.

            alley
          • claudine intexas
            Ginseng is a stimulating herb, I ve heard it referred to as a warm herb, as opposed to cool I guess, and shouldn t be used in warm diseases - I don t know
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
              Ginseng is a stimulating herb, I've heard it referred
              to as a 'warm' herb, as opposed to cool I guess, and
              shouldn't be used in 'warm' diseases - I don't know
              that much about the traditional chinese medicines but
              they seem to know something! Anyway, normally ginseng
              is a good liver tonic, but it's NOT good for any
              chronic inflammatory conditions - and HCV is a chronic
              inflammatory condition. From all I've read, I don't
              think very small doses, or just taken occasionally,
              would be harmful, just continously taking it in more
              than tiny doses. The ma-huang (Ephedra) is also not
              good for you. It is probably less safe than the
              ginseng. You know, if you get your thyroid under
              control you will probably get your energy back. When
              my thyroid quit I couldn't walk from one room to the
              next without stopping to rest. It was awful! Even
              early this year, when my TSH was up to 3.36, I was
              tired all the time, no energy, memory problems,
              irritable, dry skin, dry hair, etc. I got on the
              Cytomel, in addition to my T4 supplement, TSH went
              down below 1, and I feel GREAT now! (Well, most of the
              time anyway! - BIG difference.)Better yet, the levoxyl
              (generic synthroid, T4 supplement) is probably cheaper
              than the herbs you're taking!
              C
              --- AndromedaGurl <andromedagurl@...> wrote:
              >
              > I haven't read anything too negative on ginseng
              > except that it is a blood
              > thinner. What info do you have?
              >
              > I ask cuz I take a lot of ginseng, gingko and mah
              > huang (sp) so I can work.
              > Otherwise I'm just a tired blob of human blubber
              > lol.



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            • Tatezi
              Alley... I ll have to go through my books to get the sources and probably can t get to that for a few days. I too have been laid off but the company got us
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
                Alley...

                I'll have to go through my books to get the sources and probably can't
                get to that for a few days.

                I too have been laid off but the company got us this outplace thing. Not
                headhunters, but a series of seminars on identifying your skills, resume
                writing and fine tuning, marketing yourself and interview techniques.
                The have an online workbook and I'm one module behind which means I go
                into tomorrow's session unprepared again. I'd be okay except Tuesday I
                spent the day doing a brochure and sample web page for my dentist...had
                an emergency after my layoff and am trying to work the bartering system
                out with him.

                So even though I'm unemployed, I'm swampped. Tomorrow I interview with a
                them/perm job placement place in the am and the outplacement center in
                the afternoon. And this weekend I have to get the two modules I'll be
                behind by then done.

                BTW, gingseng is also excellent for building immune systems and also
                creates natural interferon. Don't remember why it's bad for damaged
                livers just made a note not to take it because of that. You know....that
                was back in the rebetron/thyroid gone brain fog days.

                Gotta scoot....want to finish mail and get to bed because I have an
                early morning and a busy day.

                Blessings
                Tatezi



                ...AI haven't read anything too negative on ginseng except that it is a
                blood thinner. What info do you have?...


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • sylvati
                Hi Dhava After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an adverse effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I completed
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
                  Hi Dhava

                  After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an adverse
                  effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I completed
                  treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                  love Sylv
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Uddhava Saradadasa <dhava@...>
                  To: Hep Lists <GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com>;
                  <hepatitis-b@...>; <HEPV-L@...>
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:09 PM
                  Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!


                  > I wanted to thank everyone for your support this last week. My 2nd
                  injection
                  > wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking aspirin earlier on and that
                  > seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first injection site and on
                  the
                  > middle and index finger knuckles of both hands, but it's not too bad.
                  >
                  > I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some reduced viral load by
                  > three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA and "western medicine" in
                  > general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as extremely dangerous. I
                  > believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of the peg-intron; but if
                  > they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP. I worry about any
                  > permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've treated myself with Milk
                  > Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's any point to continue
                  > taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.
                  >
                  > I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58 during two heart surgeries
                  I
                  > had at those times. I've grown up with rashes (sensitive skin),
                  degenerative
                  > joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of which seem to be linked to
                  > hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.
                  >
                  > My best wishes to all, Dhava
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Welcome to GIHepWorld
                  >
                  > Post message: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subscribe: GIWorld-Hepatitis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: GIWorld-Hepatitis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > List owner: GIWorld-Hepatitis-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GIWorld-Hepatitis
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Tatezi
                  I m very confused about this message...I have never read or heard anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and I believe that
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
                    I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                    anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and
                    I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle since
                    learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                    bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.

                    I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now that I
                    have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to buy
                    milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue level.
                    Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                    hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on milk
                    thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.

                    Tatezi.

                    sylvati wrote:

                    > Hi Dhava
                    >
                    > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                    > adverse
                    > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                    > completed
                    > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                    --
                    "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                    for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • connie woods
                    ... From: Tatezi Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:54 AM To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone! I m very
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Tatezi
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:54 AM
                      To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!

                      I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                      anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and
                      I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle since
                      learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                      bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.

                      I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now that I
                      have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to buy
                      milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue level.
                      Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                      hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on milk
                      thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.

                      Tatezi.

                      sylvati wrote:

                      > Hi Dhava
                      >
                      > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                      > adverse
                      > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                      > completed
                      > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                      --
                      "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                      for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      Welcome to GIHepWorld

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                      so TATEZI how did your treatment turn out were you a responder and did you take the combo treatment Rebetron?well my qustion is even after treatment you still felt fagituge? im currently in my 8 week of treatment and was thinking about milk thisal but didnt want to do it intill after treatment .. so if you finshed yours how long was it before your enegery came back ? please anserew me back if you have the time . as im pretty worried about this treatment . And would appericate any info i can receive .
                      THANK YOU
                      STEVE WOODS


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • alleypat
                      Tat, My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he wasn t sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I agreed. Besides,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
                        Tat,

                        My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he
                        wasn't sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I
                        agreed. Besides, for me with normal alts, it doesn't have much
                        benefit.

                        alley

                        --- In GIWorld-Hepatitis@y..., Tatezi <tatezi@p...> wrote:
                        > I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                        > anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with
                        interferon and
                        > I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle
                        since
                        > learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                        > bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.
                        >
                        > I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now
                        that I
                        > have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to
                        buy
                        > milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue
                        level.
                        > Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                        > hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on
                        milk
                        > thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.
                        >
                        > Tatezi.
                        >
                        > sylvati wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hi Dhava
                        > >
                        > > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                        > > adverse
                        > > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                        > > completed
                        > > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.
                        >
                        > --
                        > "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the
                        people
                        > for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • claudine intexas
                        There were two theories about taking milk thistle during treatment going around for a while. One: If milk thistle protected liver cells from toxins, would it
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
                          There were two theories about taking milk thistle
                          during treatment going around for a while.

                          One: If milk thistle protected liver cells from
                          toxins, would it 'protect' the liver from interferon?

                          No, interferon doesn't work like that.

                          Two: Milk Thistle may interfere with the absorbtion of
                          some medications, especially one used in the treatment
                          of HIV.

                          There was never any indication it might interfere with
                          interferon or ribavirin, it was just a 'playing it
                          safe' thing. This is still being studied, but it newer
                          research indicates that it does NOT interfere with the
                          levels of medications taken - even in that HIV
                          medication.

                          When a doctor tells you not to take it it is usually
                          because he doesn't know anything about it and would
                          rather 'play it safe'. Also, if a person is in a
                          study, they usually don't want you to take ANYTHING
                          that may 'skew' the results. If something helps, they
                          need to know what it is.

                          There is no 'medical' reason to not take it, even
                          while on treatment.

                          Claudine



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                        • Tatezi
                          Alley.... Guess the difference is that I have little to no faith in western medicine and always question doctors. (Obviously I am not a good patient when
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 6, 2001
                            Alley....

                            Guess the difference is that I have little to no faith in western
                            medicine and always question doctors. (Obviously I am not a good patient
                            when needing western medicine.)

                            Western doctors are so anti herbs of any type. Gee, if people started
                            taking herbs instead of medicines the pharacuetical companies would lose
                            money, the doctors would lose their kickbacks so they would be losing
                            money and hospitals would lose money. If they can't make money from it,
                            they don't want us taking it.

                            Oops, better go before I get on my soapbox about the western medical
                            profession.....

                            >
                            > My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he
                            > wasn't sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I
                            > agreed.

                            --
                            "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                            for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tatezi
                            Thanks, Claudine. I was so confused when I read that post about adverse effects from taking milk thistle while in tx. I think without milk thistle you are
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 6, 2001
                              Thanks, Claudine. I was so confused when I read that post about adverse
                              effects from taking milk thistle while in tx. I think without milk
                              thistle you are narrowing your chances of beating this dragon...but
                              that's only my opinion.

                              And ofcourse it makes sense that you don't take it while in a
                              study...they need to know exactly what their tx is doing without
                              interference or assistance from any other drug/herb.

                              Thanks for responding.
                              Tatezi

                              claudine intexas wrote:

                              > There were two theories about taking milk thistle
                              > during treatment going around for a while.

                              --
                              "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                              for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



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