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  • Uddhava Saradadasa
    I wanted to thank everyone for your support this last week. My 2nd injection wasn t half as bad, though I did start taking aspirin earlier on and that seemed
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 28, 2001
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      I wanted to thank everyone for your support this last week. My 2nd injection
      wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking aspirin earlier on and that
      seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first injection site and on the
      middle and index finger knuckles of both hands, but it's not too bad.

      I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some reduced viral load by
      three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA and "western medicine" in
      general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as extremely dangerous. I
      believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of the peg-intron; but if
      they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP. I worry about any
      permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've treated myself with Milk
      Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's any point to continue
      taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.

      I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58 during two heart surgeries I
      had at those times. I've grown up with rashes (sensitive skin), degenerative
      joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of which seem to be linked to
      hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.

      My best wishes to all, Dhava
    • Tatezi
      So glad to hear that your second injection wasn t as bad as the first. I don t know about the three month marker but I m sure Claudine or Doc can help answer
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 28, 2001
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        So glad to hear that your second injection wasn't as bad as the first.

        I don't know about the three month marker but I'm sure Claudine or Doc
        can help answer that question. It will also depend on your genotype.
        Being a 1B, they didn't even re-run my PCR until the 6 month marker.
        Again, I'm sure someone else can answer that question.

        I never stopped taking my herbs or vitamins while on treatment and would
        continue taking the milk thistle but don't know anything about Szchandra
        berries. I'll have to do some research on them. I also have very
        minimal faith in western medicine and all through treatment I continued
        my chinese medicine and herbs. The only thing I know of for sure that
        you can't take while on any interferon is Bupleurum (Xiao Chai Hu). It
        has toxic effects when combined with interferon.

        Another thing that those of us with liver damage need to be careful of
        is Ginseng. I've read many articles about it not being good for people
        with liver damage even though it is excellent for everyone else.

        Hope some of this helps. Good luck and hang in there!
        Blessings
        Tatezi

        Uddhava Saradadasa wrote:

        > ...My 2nd injection wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking
        > aspirin earlier on and that seemed to help a lot.... Up till now I've
        > treated myself with Milk Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if
        > there's any point to continue taking them as long as I'm on the
        > peg-intron.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Doc
        You should actually see a viral load reduction after one month, if you are responding to therapy. Dr Sharat C Misra MD,DM, FACG ... From: Uddhava Saradadasa
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 28, 2001
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          You should actually see a viral load reduction after one month, if you are responding to therapy.

          Dr Sharat C Misra MD,DM, FACG







          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Uddhava Saradadasa
          To: Hep Lists ; hepatitis-b@... ; HEPV-L@......
          Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:39 PM
          Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!


          I wanted to thank everyone for your support this last week. My 2nd injection
          wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking aspirin earlier on and that
          seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first injection site and on the
          middle and index finger knuckles of both hands, but it's not too bad.

          I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some reduced viral load by
          three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA and "western medicine" in
          general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as extremely dangerous. I
          believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of the peg-intron; but if
          they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP. I worry about any
          permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've treated myself with Milk
          Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's any point to continue
          taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.

          I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58 during two heart surgeries I
          had at those times. I've grown up with rashes (sensitive skin), degenerative
          joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of which seem to be linked to
          hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.

          My best wishes to all, Dhava


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • claudine intexas
          Hi Dhava, I m glad your second injection was not as bad! Hopefully each will get easier. Yes, you should see a viral response by 3 months! In fact, a
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 28, 2001
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            Hi Dhava,
            I'm glad your second injection was not as bad!
            Hopefully each will get easier.
            Yes, you should see a viral response by 3 months!
            In fact, a significant drop should be expected by 1
            month, although most doctors don't check. One lady in
            my local support group went undetectable at one WEEK.
            Her PCP accidentally included a PCR while doing other
            blood work or she would never have known. Of course,
            she was a genotype 3, and realistically, I don't think
            this could be expected of a genotype 1 or 4, or even
            of all 2s or 3s.
            I would continue with the milk thistle and
            Szchandra, and would also take vitamin E and C, and
            Selenium. Also a good B-complex. NO iron.
            There are some risks to interferon and ribavirin,
            but they tend to be greatly over stated often at
            various internet web sites I've seen. Treatment is not
            fun, but it is rarely truly dangerous for most people,
            especially if you have a good doctor who is monitoring
            you, and treating your side effects. The benefits
            greatly outweigh the risks!
            Good luck!
            Claudine

            > I wanted to thank everyone for your support this
            > last week. My 2nd injection
            > wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking
            > aspirin earlier on and that
            > seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first
            > injection site and on the
            > middle and index finger knuckles of both hands,
            > but it's not too bad.
            >
            > I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some
            > reduced viral load by
            > three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA
            > and "western medicine" in
            > general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as
            > extremely dangerous. I
            > believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of
            > the peg-intron; but if
            > they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP.
            > I worry about any
            > permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've
            > treated myself with Milk
            > Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's
            > any point to continue
            > taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.
            >
            > I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58
            > during two heart surgeries I
            > had at those times. I've grown up with rashes
            > (sensitive skin), degenerative
            > joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of
            > which seem to be linked to
            > hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.
            >
            > My best wishes to all, Dhava
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            >
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          • Uddhava Saradadasa
            I ll go back to my vitamin regimen and add a B-complex. I was concerned that I was just throwing money away if the interferon and riboviran was just killing
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
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              I'll go back to my vitamin regimen and add a B-complex. I was concerned that
              I was just throwing money away if the interferon and riboviran was just
              killing them.

              Thanks for the info about clearance, I don't have a viral load scheduled
              until three months; but what you shared sure sounds hopeful!

              love, Dhava
            • AndromedaGurl
              Dhava, That s a long damn time to have hep C! Yeah I d say a lot of those symptoms are hep c related. It s possible to have an undetected viral load by the 3rd
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
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                Dhava,

                That's a long damn time to have hep C! Yeah I'd say a lot of those symptoms
                are hep c related.

                It's possible to have an undetected viral load by the 3rd month, but if it
                isn't undetected then it doesn't mean it won't be nor that it won't stay
                undetected if and when you go. I know one lady who was so determined to get
                and stay undetected, she took interferon for 2 years and didn't go
                undetected till after the first year (she discontinued the ribavirin after
                the required 48 weeks) and she has been undetected for hep c now 3 years
                post treatment. So never say never!

                I don't blame you not wanting to get permanent damage from the treatment and
                a lot of people do get some kind of problems that continue after treatment.
                I know the medical brochures don't say that, but I talk to a lot of heppers
                online and at support groups and you're right, it's not an easy treatment.

                My thinking is that we each have to evaluate our situation and weigh the
                pros and cons and just hope we make the right decision. If, like me, you
                don't have a lot of liver damage, treatment might be something you don't
                want to do yet. Sometimes it is better to treat the symptoms and just watch
                the progress of the disease.

                I got the "riba rash" the last month of my treatment and it went away about
                a month after I finished. Then I got THIS rash which nobody knows what it is
                or why, so I'm doing another round of medications for weird stuff like
                scabies and a cortisone shot and some steriod medication. I have to admit, I
                didn't scratch once today so something is finally working after 5 miserable
                months of itching.

                Dhava I wish you the best. We'll support whatever decision you make about
                your treatment. Best to discuss it with your doc too. Let him/her know your
                thoughts and how it affects your health.

                Good luck!

                alley
              • AndromedaGurl
                Tat said
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
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                  Tat said <<Another thing that those of us with liver damage need to be
                  careful of
                  is Ginseng. I've read many articles about it not being good for people
                  with liver damage even though it is excellent for everyone else.>>

                  I haven't read anything too negative on ginseng except that it is a blood
                  thinner. What info do you have?

                  I ask cuz I take a lot of ginseng, gingko and mah huang (sp) so I can work.
                  Otherwise I'm just a tired blob of human blubber lol.

                  alley
                • claudine intexas
                  Ginseng is a stimulating herb, I ve heard it referred to as a warm herb, as opposed to cool I guess, and shouldn t be used in warm diseases - I don t know
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
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                    Ginseng is a stimulating herb, I've heard it referred
                    to as a 'warm' herb, as opposed to cool I guess, and
                    shouldn't be used in 'warm' diseases - I don't know
                    that much about the traditional chinese medicines but
                    they seem to know something! Anyway, normally ginseng
                    is a good liver tonic, but it's NOT good for any
                    chronic inflammatory conditions - and HCV is a chronic
                    inflammatory condition. From all I've read, I don't
                    think very small doses, or just taken occasionally,
                    would be harmful, just continously taking it in more
                    than tiny doses. The ma-huang (Ephedra) is also not
                    good for you. It is probably less safe than the
                    ginseng. You know, if you get your thyroid under
                    control you will probably get your energy back. When
                    my thyroid quit I couldn't walk from one room to the
                    next without stopping to rest. It was awful! Even
                    early this year, when my TSH was up to 3.36, I was
                    tired all the time, no energy, memory problems,
                    irritable, dry skin, dry hair, etc. I got on the
                    Cytomel, in addition to my T4 supplement, TSH went
                    down below 1, and I feel GREAT now! (Well, most of the
                    time anyway! - BIG difference.)Better yet, the levoxyl
                    (generic synthroid, T4 supplement) is probably cheaper
                    than the herbs you're taking!
                    C
                    --- AndromedaGurl <andromedagurl@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I haven't read anything too negative on ginseng
                    > except that it is a blood
                    > thinner. What info do you have?
                    >
                    > I ask cuz I take a lot of ginseng, gingko and mah
                    > huang (sp) so I can work.
                    > Otherwise I'm just a tired blob of human blubber
                    > lol.



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                  • Tatezi
                    Alley... I ll have to go through my books to get the sources and probably can t get to that for a few days. I too have been laid off but the company got us
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 29, 2001
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                      Alley...

                      I'll have to go through my books to get the sources and probably can't
                      get to that for a few days.

                      I too have been laid off but the company got us this outplace thing. Not
                      headhunters, but a series of seminars on identifying your skills, resume
                      writing and fine tuning, marketing yourself and interview techniques.
                      The have an online workbook and I'm one module behind which means I go
                      into tomorrow's session unprepared again. I'd be okay except Tuesday I
                      spent the day doing a brochure and sample web page for my dentist...had
                      an emergency after my layoff and am trying to work the bartering system
                      out with him.

                      So even though I'm unemployed, I'm swampped. Tomorrow I interview with a
                      them/perm job placement place in the am and the outplacement center in
                      the afternoon. And this weekend I have to get the two modules I'll be
                      behind by then done.

                      BTW, gingseng is also excellent for building immune systems and also
                      creates natural interferon. Don't remember why it's bad for damaged
                      livers just made a note not to take it because of that. You know....that
                      was back in the rebetron/thyroid gone brain fog days.

                      Gotta scoot....want to finish mail and get to bed because I have an
                      early morning and a busy day.

                      Blessings
                      Tatezi



                      ...AI haven't read anything too negative on ginseng except that it is a
                      blood thinner. What info do you have?...


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sylvati
                      Hi Dhava After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an adverse effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I completed
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
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                        Hi Dhava

                        After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an adverse
                        effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I completed
                        treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                        love Sylv
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Uddhava Saradadasa <dhava@...>
                        To: Hep Lists <GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com>;
                        <hepatitis-b@...>; <HEPV-L@...>
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:09 PM
                        Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!


                        > I wanted to thank everyone for your support this last week. My 2nd
                        injection
                        > wasn't half as bad, though I did start taking aspirin earlier on and that
                        > seemed to help a lot. I've got a rash at the first injection site and on
                        the
                        > middle and index finger knuckles of both hands, but it's not too bad.
                        >
                        > I was wondering if it was realistic to expect some reduced viral load by
                        > three months. I am always suspicious of the AMA and "western medicine" in
                        > general and regard Interferon and Riboviran as extremely dangerous. I
                        > believe clearing the virus is worth the danger of the peg-intron; but if
                        > they're not working I'd like to cut 'em lose ASAP. I worry about any
                        > permanent damage they may cause. Up till now I've treated myself with Milk
                        > Thistle and Szchandra berries. I wonder if there's any point to continue
                        > taking them as long as I'm on the peg-intron.
                        >
                        > I believe that I contracted hepc in 1956 or 58 during two heart surgeries
                        I
                        > had at those times. I've grown up with rashes (sensitive skin),
                        degenerative
                        > joint disease, flu symptoms and fatigue, all of which seem to be linked to
                        > hepc. I was diagnosed in '97.
                        >
                        > My best wishes to all, Dhava
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Welcome to GIHepWorld
                        >
                        > Post message: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subscribe: GIWorld-Hepatitis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                        > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GIWorld-Hepatitis
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Tatezi
                        I m very confused about this message...I have never read or heard anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and I believe that
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
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                          I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                          anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and
                          I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle since
                          learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                          bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.

                          I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now that I
                          have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to buy
                          milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue level.
                          Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                          hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on milk
                          thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.

                          Tatezi.

                          sylvati wrote:

                          > Hi Dhava
                          >
                          > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                          > adverse
                          > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                          > completed
                          > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                          --
                          "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                          for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • connie woods
                          ... From: Tatezi Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:54 AM To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone! I m very
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Tatezi
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:54 AM
                            To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hello Everyone!

                            I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                            anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with interferon and
                            I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle since
                            learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                            bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.

                            I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now that I
                            have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to buy
                            milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue level.
                            Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                            hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on milk
                            thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.

                            Tatezi.

                            sylvati wrote:

                            > Hi Dhava
                            >
                            > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                            > adverse
                            > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                            > completed
                            > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.

                            --
                            "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                            for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            Welcome to GIHepWorld

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                            so TATEZI how did your treatment turn out were you a responder and did you take the combo treatment Rebetron?well my qustion is even after treatment you still felt fagituge? im currently in my 8 week of treatment and was thinking about milk thisal but didnt want to do it intill after treatment .. so if you finshed yours how long was it before your enegery came back ? please anserew me back if you have the time . as im pretty worried about this treatment . And would appericate any info i can receive .
                            THANK YOU
                            STEVE WOODS


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • alleypat
                            Tat, My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he wasn t sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I agreed. Besides,
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
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                              Tat,

                              My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he
                              wasn't sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I
                              agreed. Besides, for me with normal alts, it doesn't have much
                              benefit.

                              alley

                              --- In GIWorld-Hepatitis@y..., Tatezi <tatezi@p...> wrote:
                              > I'm very confused about this message...I have never read or heard
                              > anything about milk thistle having adverse reactions with
                              interferon and
                              > I believe that everyone on the list has been taking milk thistle
                              since
                              > learning of it's benefits for the liver. It is the chinese herb
                              > bupleurum that has adverse effects with interferon.
                              >
                              > I took milk thistle all through tx and never had a problem. Now
                              that I
                              > have joined the ranks of the unemployed and have not had money to
                              buy
                              > milk thistle, I have noticed a distinct difference in my fatigue
                              level.
                              > Enough of a difference that I am considering putting down my
                              > hyperthyroid cat whose meds are so expensive so I can get back on
                              milk
                              > thistle and my hopefully my vitamins too.
                              >
                              > Tatezi.
                              >
                              > sylvati wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hi Dhava
                              > >
                              > > After seeing some info on this list about milk thistle having an
                              > > adverse
                              > > effect with interferon I decided to stop taking it until after I
                              > > completed
                              > > treatment. I saved myself some money by doing so.
                              >
                              > --
                              > "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the
                              people
                              > for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • claudine intexas
                              There were two theories about taking milk thistle during treatment going around for a while. One: If milk thistle protected liver cells from toxins, would it
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 5, 2001
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                                There were two theories about taking milk thistle
                                during treatment going around for a while.

                                One: If milk thistle protected liver cells from
                                toxins, would it 'protect' the liver from interferon?

                                No, interferon doesn't work like that.

                                Two: Milk Thistle may interfere with the absorbtion of
                                some medications, especially one used in the treatment
                                of HIV.

                                There was never any indication it might interfere with
                                interferon or ribavirin, it was just a 'playing it
                                safe' thing. This is still being studied, but it newer
                                research indicates that it does NOT interfere with the
                                levels of medications taken - even in that HIV
                                medication.

                                When a doctor tells you not to take it it is usually
                                because he doesn't know anything about it and would
                                rather 'play it safe'. Also, if a person is in a
                                study, they usually don't want you to take ANYTHING
                                that may 'skew' the results. If something helps, they
                                need to know what it is.

                                There is no 'medical' reason to not take it, even
                                while on treatment.

                                Claudine



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                              • Tatezi
                                Alley.... Guess the difference is that I have little to no faith in western medicine and always question doctors. (Obviously I am not a good patient when
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 6, 2001
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                                  Alley....

                                  Guess the difference is that I have little to no faith in western
                                  medicine and always question doctors. (Obviously I am not a good patient
                                  when needing western medicine.)

                                  Western doctors are so anti herbs of any type. Gee, if people started
                                  taking herbs instead of medicines the pharacuetical companies would lose
                                  money, the doctors would lose their kickbacks so they would be losing
                                  money and hospitals would lose money. If they can't make money from it,
                                  they don't want us taking it.

                                  Oops, better go before I get on my soapbox about the western medical
                                  profession.....

                                  >
                                  > My doc asked me not to do milk thistle during treatment. He said he
                                  > wasn't sure if it would screw with it, but he wanted to be sure and I
                                  > agreed.

                                  --
                                  "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                                  for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tatezi
                                  Thanks, Claudine. I was so confused when I read that post about adverse effects from taking milk thistle while in tx. I think without milk thistle you are
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 6, 2001
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                                    Thanks, Claudine. I was so confused when I read that post about adverse
                                    effects from taking milk thistle while in tx. I think without milk
                                    thistle you are narrowing your chances of beating this dragon...but
                                    that's only my opinion.

                                    And ofcourse it makes sense that you don't take it while in a
                                    study...they need to know exactly what their tx is doing without
                                    interference or assistance from any other drug/herb.

                                    Thanks for responding.
                                    Tatezi

                                    claudine intexas wrote:

                                    > There were two theories about taking milk thistle
                                    > during treatment going around for a while.

                                    --
                                    "... democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people
                                    for the people." ~Oscar Wilde~



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