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Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog

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  • Doc
    Brain fog is what we call as subclinical encephalopathy and is a part of liver disease. It is not easy to detect clinically and you have to actually seek it
    Message 1 of 27 , Jun 2, 2001
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      Brain fog is what we call as subclinical encephalopathy and is a part of liver disease. It is not
      easy to detect clinically and you have to actually seek it out from a person..the others living with
      the person are usually able to confirm these mild changes in behaviour or mannerisms. Sometimes it
      is that subtle.
      It is the thought processing center in the brain that gets affected through certain transmitters or
      rather through their lack due to liver disease. There is never any structural damage to the brain
      and no...the virus does not reach the CNS.

      Dr Sharat C Misra MD, DM





      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Alley/Pat
      To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 3:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


      Well I've read how the virus can cause brain lesions as well as lesions in
      other areas of the body. Now I don't know how it does that and I 'assume'
      it's end stage stuff, but there is no doubt that the virus itself causes a
      lot of symptoms and sure doesn't need any liver damage to help it along.

      I just consoled a lady friend online last nite. She lives in Hawaii and she
      had gone to the "best" gastro on the island and he told her that her brain
      fog and joint pain and fatigue was "all in her head", she knew better
      intellectually, but it's so devistating to have a doctor tell you this, I
      know, I've been there. I felt so sorry for her and wanted to bash in that
      doc's nose ya know!

      Good thing it's a long walk from Texas to Hawaii haha.

      Sometimes we just need validation as people, that we aren't crazy or
      hyperchondriacs. I know it helps me to put a name to something, to have a
      cause and effect thing, even if I don't totally understand the techy stuff.
      It gives me confidence in myself, that I'm not imagining all the aches and
      pains, and helps me feel better, knowing it's ok.

      And it's hard to sometimes to separate the hep caused problems and other
      problems. I know sometimes I let things go when I should be getting
      something taken care of haha like my darn sinus and allergy junk. I expect
      to feel bad, so I don't think about taking my sinus meds early enough
      sometimes and then BAM, I've gotta get to the doc for some help.

      hugs

      Patricia / Andromeda Gurl/ Alleypat
      Grand Prairie, Tx, USA, Earth
      http://members.home.com/andromedagurl
      ICQ: 12631861
      AOL IM: DallasAlleyPat
      MSN: PJHauldren


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    • Alley/Pat
      Well I ve read how the virus can cause brain lesions as well as lesions in other areas of the body. Now I don t know how it does that and I assume it s end
      Message 2 of 27 , Jun 2, 2001
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        Well I've read how the virus can cause brain lesions as well as lesions in
        other areas of the body. Now I don't know how it does that and I 'assume'
        it's end stage stuff, but there is no doubt that the virus itself causes a
        lot of symptoms and sure doesn't need any liver damage to help it along.

        I just consoled a lady friend online last nite. She lives in Hawaii and she
        had gone to the "best" gastro on the island and he told her that her brain
        fog and joint pain and fatigue was "all in her head", she knew better
        intellectually, but it's so devistating to have a doctor tell you this, I
        know, I've been there. I felt so sorry for her and wanted to bash in that
        doc's nose ya know!

        Good thing it's a long walk from Texas to Hawaii haha.

        Sometimes we just need validation as people, that we aren't crazy or
        hyperchondriacs. I know it helps me to put a name to something, to have a
        cause and effect thing, even if I don't totally understand the techy stuff.
        It gives me confidence in myself, that I'm not imagining all the aches and
        pains, and helps me feel better, knowing it's ok.

        And it's hard to sometimes to separate the hep caused problems and other
        problems. I know sometimes I let things go when I should be getting
        something taken care of haha like my darn sinus and allergy junk. I expect
        to feel bad, so I don't think about taking my sinus meds early enough
        sometimes and then BAM, I've gotta get to the doc for some help.

        hugs

        Patricia / Andromeda Gurl/ Alleypat
        Grand Prairie, Tx, USA, Earth
        http://members.home.com/andromedagurl
        ICQ: 12631861
        AOL IM: DallasAlleyPat
        MSN: PJHauldren
      • CHARLEY118@webtv.net
        hi everyone hope you all are doing ok i been on the list for 2 ys. went through the combo for ayear i was anone responder doc told my liver my viral load was
        Message 3 of 27 , Jun 3, 2001
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          hi everyone hope you all are doing ok i been on the list for 2 ys. went
          through the combo for ayear i was anone responder doc told my liver my
          viral load was 5 million at begining of treatment my liver function test
          was normal range he said to see him in 1 yr.a year later he said see him
          in another yr. that was in jan. of 2001 i wiil see him in 6 months he
          said he waiting a nonenterferon i been on milk thi. liver rite vit.c
          vit.e and lots of milk i worked while on on meds this is why i
          responded to brainfog i drive a tractor trailer for 10 ys. for the same
          co.and had a perfect record even recieved awards for safe driver i had 2
          incidents while on meds i was put on probation and 1more my contract
          would be termanited which put more pressure on me as i drive around
          phila. pa. area one day went to work and my dispather noticed i was
          wearing 2 different boots on which he brought to my attention i also
          left my truck running a number of times messed my paper work and log
          book up a number of times and i thought it was the meds and i been ok
          since i got off the meds my doc. that i see in 1 yr.is my gas. doc.i
          need to have blood work done through my prime doc.2 times a yr.which i
          have not done yet cause i am afraid because i been drinking on weekends
          oh and i am in first stage of fib. fatty liver and inflamation. also 1b
          hang in there be positive good luck charley
        • Alley/Pat
          Doc, I know what scientific evidence says... however, being a hepper with no liver damage.... brain fog is still a problem, and especially on treatment. Of
          Message 4 of 27 , Jun 3, 2001
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            Doc, I know what scientific evidence says... however, being a hepper with no
            liver damage.... brain fog is still a problem, and especially on treatment.
            Of course, that does not mean I don't have ANY problems with my liver, there
            is a 20% error in biopsy results either way. But whether it's due to fatigue
            or the virus or the liver damage, a dull brain is definitely there. wish it
            weren't :)

            Patricia / Andromeda Gurl/ Alleypat
            Grand Prairie, Tx, USA, Earth
            http://members.home.com/andromedagurl
            ICQ: 12631861
            AOL IM: DallasAlleyPat
            MSN: PJHauldren
          • AVansi7465@aol.com
            MILD changes in behavior??????????? There have been several times when I have truly wondered if I wasn t a candidate for the guys in the white coats. One
            Message 5 of 27 , Jun 3, 2001
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              MILD changes in behavior??????????? There have been several times when I
              have truly wondered if I wasn't a candidate for the guys in the white coats.
              One thing is for certain, I, who used to be an expert at crisis management,
              can no longer function for long under stress. But doesn't being
              post-menopausal have something of the same effect........or am I confusing my
              problems here. Thanks, Anne


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alley/Pat
              ha Anne been there :) That s why most heppers are on antidepressants, the hep really messes with us. Patricia / Andromeda Gurl/ Alleypat Grand Prairie, Tx,
              Message 6 of 27 , Jun 4, 2001
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                ha Anne been there :)

                That's why most heppers are on antidepressants, the hep really messes with
                us.

                Patricia / Andromeda Gurl/ Alleypat
                Grand Prairie, Tx, USA, Earth
                http://members.home.com/andromedagurl
                ICQ: 12631861
                AOL IM: DallasAlleyPat
                MSN: PJHauldren
              • Doc
                It is better to cut out all animal proteins for sometime if you are experiencing brain fog and keep a check that you are having enough salt . Dr Sharat C
                Message 7 of 27 , Jun 4, 2001
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                  It is better to cut out all animal proteins for sometime if you are experiencing " brain fog" and
                  keep a check that you are having enough salt .

                  Dr Sharat C Misra MD, DM




                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: CHARLEY118@...
                  To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:46 PM
                  Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


                  im told to cut out red meat all i been eating is dear meat aint that
                  suppose to be good for you compare to beef or pork


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • glenna gebauer
                  This message is for Charley... If you ever decided to take a piece of advice...please take this one... You MUST not drink alcohol with Hep C. It will destroy
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jun 4, 2001
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                    This message is for Charley...
                    If you ever decided to take a piece of advice...please take this one...
                    You MUST not drink alcohol with Hep C. It will destroy your liver quckly.
                    And if you ever do need a liver they will not list you if you drink.

                    Do not miss doctor appointments because you are afraid he will find out you
                    have been drinking...your doctor is your "captian" of all of this, and needs
                    to watch your levels. I have hep c myself...and I care what happens to you.
                    Glenna
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                  • AVansi7465@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/4/2001 8:24:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... I tried the anitdepressants, Pat. Boy was that a mistake. If I m going to take Welbutron or
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jun 4, 2001
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                      In a message dated 6/4/2001 8:24:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      alleypat@... writes:


                      > That's why most heppers are on antidepressants, the hep really messes with
                      > us.
                      >
                      >

                      I tried the anitdepressants, Pat. Boy was that a mistake. If I'm going to
                      take Welbutron or Paxel, somebody will also have to write a script for an
                      anticonvulsant. I'm not a depressive personality, but this show will
                      definitely slow you down. But the antidepressants, physically wire me.
                      Never have reacted to drugs "normally". Hence, the non-responder, I guess.
                      Anne


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • sylvati
                      Dear Charley please stop drinking ! honestly, don t have any at all. also there are lots of things you can do with your diet to help you feel better. cut
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jun 4, 2001
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                        Dear Charley

                        please stop drinking ! honestly, don't have any at all. also there are
                        lots of things you can do with your diet to help you feel better. cut out
                        caffiene, fat, sugar etc and eat lots of fresh fruit & veg, fish & chicken
                        are good but not too much red meat.

                        good luck, love Sylv
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <CHARLEY118@...>
                        To: <GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:36 AM
                        Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


                        > hi everyone hope you all are doing ok i been on the list for 2 ys. went
                        > through the combo for ayear i was anone responder doc told my liver my
                        > viral load was 5 million at begining of treatment my liver function test
                        > was normal range he said to see him in 1 yr.a year later he said see him
                        > in another yr. that was in jan. of 2001 i wiil see him in 6 months he
                        > said he waiting a nonenterferon i been on milk thi. liver rite vit.c
                        > vit.e and lots of milk i worked while on on meds this is why i
                        > responded to brainfog i drive a tractor trailer for 10 ys. for the same
                        > co.and had a perfect record even recieved awards for safe driver i had 2
                        > incidents while on meds i was put on probation and 1more my contract
                        > would be termanited which put more pressure on me as i drive around
                        > phila. pa. area one day went to work and my dispather noticed i was
                        > wearing 2 different boots on which he brought to my attention i also
                        > left my truck running a number of times messed my paper work and log
                        > book up a number of times and i thought it was the meds and i been ok
                        > since i got off the meds my doc. that i see in 1 yr.is my gas. doc.i
                        > need to have blood work done through my prime doc.2 times a yr.which i
                        > have not done yet cause i am afraid because i been drinking on weekends
                        > oh and i am in first stage of fib. fatty liver and inflamation. also 1b
                        > hang in there be positive good luck charley
                        >
                        >
                        > Welcome to GIHepWorld
                        >
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                        > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GIWorld-Hepatitis
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • CHARLEY118@webtv.net
                        im told to cut out red meat all i been eating is dear meat aint that suppose to be good for you compare to beef or pork
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jun 5, 2001
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                          im told to cut out red meat all i been eating is dear meat aint that
                          suppose to be good for you compare to beef or pork
                        • Doc
                          Anne, It is never a very good idea to completely give up salt. 5 gm salt every day (one flatenned teaspoon full) is your minimun requirement and it wont upset
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jun 5, 2001
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                            Anne,
                            It is never a very good idea to completely give up salt.
                            5 gm salt every day (one flatenned teaspoon full) is your minimun requirement and it wont upset your
                            BP.

                            Dr Sharat C Misra MD, DM




                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: AVansi7465@...
                            To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:26 AM
                            Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


                            Dr. MIsra,
                            Could you define enough salt? Along with everything else that has come apart
                            since I did the Ribavirin treatment, I have developed moderately high blood
                            pressure. It's not out of the normal range, but it is higher than what is
                            normal for me. Consequently, I've virtually stopped using salt. Have I
                            goofed here?
                            Thanks,
                            Anne


                            [


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • AVansi7465@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/5/2001 3:17:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Yes, deer meat is the best you can do. It has less fat than either chicken or turkey. If
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jun 5, 2001
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                              In a message dated 6/5/2001 3:17:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                              CHARLEY118@... writes:


                              > im told to cut out red meat all i been eating is dear meat aint that
                              > suppose to be good for you compare to beef or pork
                              >

                              Yes, deer meat is the best you can do. It has less fat than either chicken
                              or turkey. If you have any to spare, I'm up for taking some off your hands.
                              David wasn't able to hunt this year because of his hernia, so I'm down to one
                              side of beef. I can feel a panic attack setting in. Also, if you'll e-mail
                              me at avansi7465@..., I'll send you my special deer barbecue recipe.
                              It's delicious, if I do say so myself.
                              Take care and stay healthy,
                              Anne


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • AVansi7465@aol.com
                              Dr. MIsra, Could you define enough salt? Along with everything else that has come apart since I did the Ribavirin treatment, I have developed moderately high
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jun 5, 2001
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                                Dr. MIsra,
                                Could you define enough salt? Along with everything else that has come apart
                                since I did the Ribavirin treatment, I have developed moderately high blood
                                pressure. It's not out of the normal range, but it is higher than what is
                                normal for me. Consequently, I've virtually stopped using salt. Have I
                                goofed here?
                                Thanks,
                                Anne


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • AVansi7465@aol.com
                                Dear Dr. Misra, Thank you for the advice. I gave up salted with the idea in mind that I m probably getting enough sodium from canned goods and my canned
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jun 6, 2001
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                                  Dear Dr. Misra,
                                  Thank you for the advice. I gave up salted with the idea in mind that I'm
                                  probably getting enough sodium from canned goods and my canned pickles, etc.,
                                  to cover the amount. I don't retain water, so maybe I should add a little.
                                  Thanks again, Anne


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Go Friend
                                  I know I may sound like a broken record but for me freshly ground flax seed daily has been a great help with my occasional mild depression, without side
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jun 9, 2001
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                                    I know I may sound like a broken record but for me
                                    freshly ground flax seed daily has been a great help
                                    with my occasional mild depression, without side
                                    effects.

                                    I am curious about the salt minimum tho.

                                    "It is never a very good idea to completely give up
                                    salt.5 gm salt every day (one flatenned teaspoon full)
                                    is your minimun requirement and it wont upset your BP.

                                    Dr Sharat C Misra MD, DM"

                                    I don't eat many prepared foods (potato chips many 3
                                    or 4 times a year, for instance), nothing with blood
                                    in it, and we don't cook with salt. I am fairly
                                    certain there are many days or weeks at a time I don't
                                    get that flattened teaspoon of salt. Two questions:

                                    Is there some symptom of salt deficiency I would
                                    notice myself? What should I be looking for? (Okay,
                                    so I am only counting that as one question :-)

                                    Is it the salt itself that is needed or the sodium?
                                    If so, could I be getting enough sodium through diet?
                                    I do use Braggs Liquid Aminos instead of salt, and
                                    that does say it has some naturally occuring sodium.
                                    I am sure other foods also have high sodium levels.



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                                  • Alley/Pat
                                    hi Charley, PLEEEZe don t drink with hep c. I have no liver damage and I keep my drinking to the absolute minium. I had one glass of wine the other day, when
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jun 11, 2001
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                                      hi Charley,

                                      PLEEEZe don't drink with hep c. I have no liver damage and I keep my
                                      drinking to the absolute minium. I had one glass of wine the other day, when
                                      hubby and i were treated to dinner in a fancy restaraunt, where they put the
                                      napkin in your lap and everything haha. But even then I didn't finsh the
                                      glass, hubby did for me haha.

                                      alley
                                    • runabout_104
                                      Thanks for letting me know that this is soooo normal, but hate that all of u r going thru it too, at least now I know this is normal behaviour for the meds.
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jan 17, 2002
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                                        Thanks for letting me know that this is soooo normal, but hate that
                                        all of u r going thru it too, at least now I know this is normal
                                        behaviour for the meds. HOpe it doesn't cont--God forbid, if i loose
                                        something though, the whole house is liable to come down. But i did
                                        good yest, I misplaced the check book and didn't even look for it and
                                        tried not to even care and yep, u r right, it turned up, Now if those
                                        darn food stamps wd just do the same, I wd be in business. It' been
                                        over a week on them! ha
                                      • Curlykew
                                        I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much red meat.. i used to
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 18, 2002
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                                          I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently... i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry .. LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now .. and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids.. but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10 years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.. am applying for a fellowship to get a certificate to teach deaf education.. what i always wanted.. i do still have the hep c and cirrhosis but is like the report said.. the combo treatment may not have cleared me but it really improved things for me .. even tho i have cirrhosis.. doc hasnt pushed the new treatment as i am doing ok for now and treatment can almost make it so i can not work... i have a good job .. not high pay but good insurance and flexible schedule that helps when i am sick... well enuf bout me.. i just wanted to say .. that brain fog can be lessened by eating habits i believe... now if i can get back to good ones again.. LOL.. was easier when treatment inhibited my appetite.. started bicycling and is doing me wonders too.. well i dont contribute often but do read most all postings and this is .. like someone said .. an ACTIVE group

                                          content,

                                          Dawn


                                          My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                          Love to hear from YOU!
                                          Dawn


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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • willem landstra
                                          HI.My brainfog was getting so bad,I.am off treatment,that I decided to do something about it.My Doc said if it does.nt go away I hve to see a neurologist.I
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 19, 2002
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                                            HI.My brainfog was getting so bad,I.am off treatment,that I decided to do something about it.My Doc said if it does.nt go away I hve to see a neurologist.I went to a . ,person who knows a lot about food-supplements.She advised MSM and multi.vit.(the group also advised this)I bought MSM-vitals and multi from douglas lab,it has little iron in it.Coul.dnt get sup without iron.And you know what it helps.After a week my brainfog is getting less.Still hve this faint headache but that feeling that you are floating is getting less.Also the flickering of the eyes is getting less.Short memory is also better.Hope it will go on improving.If I relapse again,that would be the fourth time,I hve the promise that I can participate in a trial starting january with protease inhibitors at the Acadamic Hospital in Amsterdam.Right now I.am going to be a turtle who will put his Hep in the shell and going to enjoy my summer,whether my liver likes it or not.LOL.William.
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Curlykew
                                            To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:42 AM
                                            Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog



                                            I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently... i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry .. LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now .. and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids.. but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10 years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.. am applying for a fellowship to get a certificate to teach deaf education.. what i always wanted.. i do still have the hep c and cirrhosis but is like the report said.. the combo treatment may not have cleared me but it really improved things for me .. even tho i have cirrhosis.. doc hasnt pushed the new treatment as i am doing ok for now and treatment can almost make it so i can not work... i have a good job .. not high pay but good insurance and flexible schedule that helps when i am sick... well enuf bout me.. i just wanted to say .. that brain fog can be lessened by eating habits i believe... now if i can get back to good ones again.. LOL.. was easier when treatment inhibited my appetite.. started bicycling and is doing me wonders too.. well i dont contribute often but do read most all postings and this is .. like someone said .. an ACTIVE group

                                            content,

                                            Dawn


                                            My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                            Love to hear from YOU!
                                            Dawn


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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Tatezi
                                            I have not heard about the brain fog being caused by ammonia build ups in the brain...not that red meat might be the cause. Hmmmm...will have to ask doc about
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 19, 2002
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                                              I have not heard about the brain fog being caused by ammonia build ups
                                              in the brain...not that red meat might be the cause. Hmmmm...will have
                                              to ask doc about that.

                                              But if you have cirhossis, doesn't (and pardon my spelling here)
                                              encepholitis usually accompany cirhossis or is that only at end stages?


                                              Curlykew wrote:

                                              >
                                              > I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the
                                              > brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much
                                              > red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have
                                              > the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know
                                              > it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company
                                              > but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and
                                              > stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of
                                              > treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that
                                              > didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently...
                                              > i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry ..
                                              > LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now ..
                                              > and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going
                                              > back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids..
                                              > but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10
                                              > years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.. am
                                              > applying for a fellowship to get a certificate to teach deaf
                                              > education.. what i always wanted.. i do still have the hep c and
                                              > cirrhosis but is like the report said.. the combo treatment may not
                                              > have cleared me but it really improved things for me .. even tho i
                                              > have cirrhosis.. doc hasnt pushed the new treatment as i am doing ok
                                              > for now and treatment can almost make it so i can not work... i have a
                                              > good job .. not high pay but good insurance and flexible schedule that
                                              > helps when i am sick... well enuf bout me.. i just wanted to say ..
                                              > that brain fog can be lessened by eating habits i believe... now if i
                                              > can get back to good ones again.. LOL.. was easier when treatment
                                              > inhibited my appetite.. started bicycling and is doing me wonders
                                              > too.. well i dont contribute often but do read most all postings and
                                              > this is .. like someone said .. an ACTIVE group
                                              >
                                              > content,
                                              >
                                              > Dawn
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                              > Love to hear from YOU!
                                              > Dawn
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Tatezi
                                              Hi Willem... MSM is a wonderful thing. It is a derivative of DMSO (I d have to look up the scientific term for that if you are interested) and when I learned
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hi Willem...

                                                MSM is a wonderful thing. It is a derivative of DMSO (I'd have to look
                                                up the scientific term for that if you are interested) and when I
                                                learned that I started reading book after book about it. During my years
                                                on the racetrack, my hands were always in DMSO...we would rub it on the
                                                horses legs on top of the medicines to drive the medicines into the legs
                                                and on sore muscles because of the heat that came from DMSO. My
                                                arthritis never bothered me back then although I smelled like garlic all
                                                the time (dmso gives you a garlic odor).

                                                When I left the racetrack all the aches came back. Tried buying DMSO in
                                                health stores and pet supplies stores but it was always 'dead' and
                                                eventually gave up unless I could get it when the from a tack shop when
                                                it was racing season here in Chicago. Good DMSO smokes when you open the
                                                bottle...and it should always be stored in glass.

                                                So when I learned that MSM was a deritive of DMSO, I started
                                                reading...and still have at least one book around the house about it.
                                                Started taking it many years ago and it has save me much suffering from
                                                aches and pains.

                                                I'll dig out that book and pass along some other interesting things
                                                about MSM if you would like....just let me know.

                                                Blessings
                                                Tatezi

                                                willem landstra wrote:

                                                > HI.My brainfog was getting so bad,I.am off treatment,that I decided
                                                > to do something about it.My Doc said if it does.nt go away I hve to
                                                > see a neurologist.I went to a . ,person who knows a lot about
                                                > food-supplements.She advised MSM and multi.vit.(the group also advised
                                                > this)I bought MSM-vitals and multi from douglas lab,it has little iron
                                                > in it.Coul.dnt get sup without iron.And you know what it helps.After a
                                                > week my brainfog is getting less.Still hve this faint headache but
                                                > that feeling that you are floating is getting less.Also the flickering
                                                > of the eyes is getting less.Short memory is also better.Hope it will
                                                > go on improving.If I relapse again,that would be the fourth time,I hve
                                                > the promise that I can participate in a trial starting january with
                                                > protease inhibitors at the Acadamic Hospital in Amsterdam.Right now
                                                > I.am going to be a turtle who will put his Hep in the shell and going
                                                > to enjoy my summer,whether my liver likes it or not.LOL.William.
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Curlykew
                                                > To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:42 AM
                                                > Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the
                                                > brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much
                                                > red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have
                                                > the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know
                                                > it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company
                                                > but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and
                                                > stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of
                                                > treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that
                                                > didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently...
                                                > i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry ..
                                                > LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now ..
                                                > and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going
                                                > back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids..
                                                > but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10
                                                > years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.. am
                                                > applying for a fellowship to get a certificate to teach deaf
                                                > education.. what i always wanted.. i do still have the hep c and
                                                > cirrhosis but is like the report said.. the combo treatment may not
                                                > have cleared me but it really improved things for me .. even tho i
                                                > have cirrhosis.. doc hasnt pushed the new treatment as i am doing ok
                                                > for now and treatment can almost make it so i can not work... i have a
                                                > good job .. not high pay but good insurance and flexible schedule that
                                                > helps when i am sick... well enuf bout me.. i just wanted to say ..
                                                > that brain fog can be lessened by eating habits i believe... now if i
                                                > can get back to good ones again.. LOL.. was easier when treatment
                                                > inhibited my appetite.. started bicycling and is doing me wonders
                                                > too.. well i dont contribute often but do read most all postings and
                                                > this is .. like someone said .. an ACTIVE group
                                                >
                                                > content,
                                                >
                                                > Dawn
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                                > Love to hear from YOU!
                                                > Dawn
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ---------------------------------
                                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Doc
                                                By Brain Fog if you mean encephalopathy, it is due to ammonia accumulation in the brain and red meat is a big contributor. In fact people with advanced liver
                                                Message 23 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  By Brain Fog if you mean encephalopathy, it is due to ammonia accumulation in the brain and red meat is a big contributor.
                                                  In fact people with advanced liver disease should be only on vegetable proteins.

                                                  Dr Sharat Misra MD,DM,FACG

                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Tatezi
                                                  To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:14 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


                                                  I have not heard about the brain fog being caused by ammonia build ups
                                                  in the brain...not that red meat might be the cause. Hmmmm...will have
                                                  to ask doc about that.

                                                  But if you have cirhossis, doesn't (and pardon my spelling here)
                                                  encepholitis usually accompany cirhossis or is that only at end stages?


                                                  Curlykew wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the
                                                  > brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much
                                                  > red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have
                                                  > the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know
                                                  > it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company
                                                  > but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and
                                                  > stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of
                                                  > treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that
                                                  > didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently...
                                                  > i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry ..
                                                  > LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now ..
                                                  > and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going
                                                  > back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids..
                                                  > but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10
                                                  > years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.. am
                                                  > applying for a fellowship to get a certificate to teach deaf
                                                  > education.. what i always wanted.. i do still have the hep c and
                                                  > cirrhosis but is like the report said.. the combo treatment may not
                                                  > have cleared me but it really improved things for me .. even tho i
                                                  > have cirrhosis.. doc hasnt pushed the new treatment as i am doing ok
                                                  > for now and treatment can almost make it so i can not work... i have a
                                                  > good job .. not high pay but good insurance and flexible schedule that
                                                  > helps when i am sick... well enuf bout me.. i just wanted to say ..
                                                  > that brain fog can be lessened by eating habits i believe... now if i
                                                  > can get back to good ones again.. LOL.. was easier when treatment
                                                  > inhibited my appetite.. started bicycling and is doing me wonders
                                                  > too.. well i dont contribute often but do read most all postings and
                                                  > this is .. like someone said .. an ACTIVE group
                                                  >
                                                  > content,
                                                  >
                                                  > Dawn
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                                  > Love to hear from YOU!
                                                  > Dawn
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ---------------------------------
                                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                  > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                  ADVERTISEMENT


                                                  >
                                                  > Welcome to GIHepWorld
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                                                  proverb~



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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • AVansi7465@aol.com
                                                  In a message dated 5/19/2002 5:01:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Dear William, I agree. Now, if the weather will just cooperate with me, I ll be in tall
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    In a message dated 5/19/2002 5:01:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                    wmland@... writes:


                                                    > now I.am going to be a turtle who will put his Hep in the shell and going to
                                                    > enjoy my summer,whether my liver likes it or not.LOL.William.
                                                    >

                                                    Dear William,
                                                    I agree. Now, if the weather will just cooperate with me, I'll "be in tall
                                                    cotton".
                                                    Anne


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Carol
                                                    Hi William....I think that is a good idea....putting hepc on hold and enjoying your summer. I m going to take your advice about that lol. Is MSM something I
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Hi William....I think that is a good idea....putting hepc on hold and
                                                      enjoying your summer. I'm going to take your advice about that lol. Is
                                                      MSM something I can buy at a local pharmacy?

                                                      Carol

                                                      willem landstra wrote:

                                                      > HI.My brainfog was getting so bad,I.am off treatment,that I decided
                                                      > to do something about it.My Doc said if it does.nt go away I hve to
                                                      > see a neurologist.I went to a . ,person who knows a lot about
                                                      > food-supplements.She advised MSM and multi.vit.(the group also advised
                                                      > this)I bought MSM-vitals and multi from douglas lab,it has little iron
                                                      > in it.Coul.dnt get sup without iron.And you know what it helps.After a
                                                      > week my brainfog is getting less.Still hve this faint headache but
                                                      > that feeling that you are floating is getting less.Also the flickering
                                                      > of the eyes is getting less.Short memory is also better.Hope it will
                                                      > go on improving.If I relapse again,that would be the fourth time,I hve
                                                      > the promise that I can participate in a trial starting january with
                                                      > protease inhibitors at the Acadamic Hospital in Amsterdam.Right now
                                                      > I.am going to be a turtle who will put his Hep in the shell and going
                                                      > to enjoy my summer,whether my liver likes it or not.LOL.William.
                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                      > From: Curlykew
                                                      > To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:42 AM
                                                      > Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the
                                                      > brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much
                                                      > red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have
                                                      > the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know
                                                      > it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company
                                                      > but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and
                                                      > stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of
                                                      > treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that
                                                      > didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently...
                                                      > i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry ..
                                                      > LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now ..
                                                      > and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going
                                                      > back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids..
                                                      > but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10
                                                      > years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.
                                                      > content,
                                                      >
                                                      > Dawn
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                                      > Love to hear from YOU!
                                                      > Dawn
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ---------------------------------
                                                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                      > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
                                                      >
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                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • willem landstra
                                                      HI.Yes,good idea.There.s nothing I can do about it now,except taking care how I live.Sometimes I think we.re too much pre-occupied about our Dragon.I.am a
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        HI.Yes,good idea.There.s nothing I can do about it now,except taking care how I live.Sometimes I think we.re too much pre-occupied about our Dragon.I.am a pickheaded dutchman and suspicious about alternative treatment and supplements.I spend a lot of money on our chinese citizens who hve little shops where tey claim to hve herbs to cure anything from cancer to broken relations.The most faith I hve is in Tibetan medicine.There is a non-profit making center here and at least they are honest and tell you we cannot cure you but improve the quality of your life.It.s the only alternative treatment which is paid for by the dutch health insurance.this lady advised me to take MSM I had my doubts but I feel a lot better now.I don.t know whether it.s the MSM or just natural recuperating.It also helps against joint-pains etc.You can buy it anywhere.Tat,our Tat,knows more about it.I had my first chess-game yesterday and for the first time I could think three moves ahead and rememberd the moves I made.It was a lovely day iin amsterdam,open air pubs and I could.nt resist the temptation and had the first cold Heineken in 5 yrs.It was heaven.I will drink one everyday,very slowly.Have a nice summer,life is short and who knows the great adventure which migt be lurking on the other side.We should have a little bit more Humor on the group.William.
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        From: Carol
                                                        To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 3:47 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog


                                                        Hi William....I think that is a good idea....putting hepc on hold and
                                                        enjoying your summer. I'm going to take your advice about that lol. Is
                                                        MSM something I can buy at a local pharmacy?

                                                        Carol

                                                        willem landstra wrote:

                                                        > HI.My brainfog was getting so bad,I.am off treatment,that I decided
                                                        > to do something about it.My Doc said if it does.nt go away I hve to
                                                        > see a neurologist.I went to a . ,person who knows a lot about
                                                        > food-supplements.She advised MSM and multi.vit.(the group also advised
                                                        > this)I bought MSM-vitals and multi from douglas lab,it has little iron
                                                        > in it.Coul.dnt get sup without iron.And you know what it helps.After a
                                                        > week my brainfog is getting less.Still hve this faint headache but
                                                        > that feeling that you are floating is getting less.Also the flickering
                                                        > of the eyes is getting less.Short memory is also better.Hope it will
                                                        > go on improving.If I relapse again,that would be the fourth time,I hve
                                                        > the promise that I can participate in a trial starting january with
                                                        > protease inhibitors at the Acadamic Hospital in Amsterdam.Right now
                                                        > I.am going to be a turtle who will put his Hep in the shell and going
                                                        > to enjoy my summer,whether my liver likes it or not.LOL.William.
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Curlykew
                                                        > To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:42 AM
                                                        > Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] brain fog
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > I think that brain fog has a lot to do with ammonia build up in the
                                                        > brain.. and trying to remember what causes that.. think maybe too much
                                                        > red meat.. i used to study and research a lot about hep c..but i have
                                                        > the brain fog.. cant concentrate so much .. so i am not sure but know
                                                        > it is ammonia in the brain... I used to work for a big finance company
                                                        > but the brain fog really messed me up .. too much pressure and
                                                        > stress.. now i make 1/3 the income and hus left me in middle of
                                                        > treatment .. so my income level went down but, you know what, that
                                                        > didnt bother me so much. Hep C has made me look at life differently...
                                                        > i try to avoid stress .. in my situation that means .. dont worry ..
                                                        > LOL.. hard at times but i concentrate on the good in my life now ..
                                                        > and hus leaving was probably a good thing... now thinking of going
                                                        > back to teaching but scared.. as is a big responsibility to the kids..
                                                        > but was love of my life at one time .. to teach.. did it for 10
                                                        > years.. oh well .. we shall see what God has in store for me.
                                                        > content,
                                                        >
                                                        > Dawn
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > My message to you: Don't worry, be happy!!
                                                        > Love to hear from YOU!
                                                        > Dawn
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ---------------------------------
                                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                        > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >
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                                                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                        >
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                                                        >
                                                        >
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