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Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks

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  • Claudine Crews
    Good luck! If this is your problem you will probably notice an improvement pretty quickly, all though after 6 months of total vegetarianism it might take a
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
      Good luck! If this is your problem you will probably notice an
      improvement pretty quickly, all though after 6 months of total vegetarianism
      it might take a while to really feel back to normal (whatever that is for us
      heppers!)
      Meeting my protein requirement is hard for me, I would much rather eat
      pasta, or potatoes, or pasta, rice, pasta, etc.!! I have started keeping
      hard boiled eggs in the frig. Eggs have really gotten an undeserved bad rap
      lately. They are an excellent source of complete, high quality protein. If
      you are concerned about too much fat, dispose of some of the yolks. If I eat
      three eggs, my dog gets 1 1/2 yolks! My dog loves them. I also cook up a
      lot of boneless, skinless chicken breasts and stick them back in the
      freezer. I can grab one and thaw it out in the microwave in no time. I'm
      not knocking vegetarianism, but you have to really know what you're doing,
      about combining different foods to get the correct type and amount of
      protein required, and also the vitamins that a body needs.
      When I was first diagnosed with HCV I wanted to do everything right,
      stay in strict control of my diet, etc. After a while I went back to just
      trying to eat sensibly, keeping in mind what I knew about nutrition. My
      doctor's only nutritional advise was to eat low fat. I just received a
      copy of the book "Living With Hepatitis C - A Survivor's Guide". In the
      chapter on nutrition I read this paragraph and realized there is a lot of
      truth in it, for me and probably a lot of people. This lady had been to two
      dieticians, then a naturopath, then finally a nutritionist.
      "Looking back, I can see what I was trying to do - control what
      I could in a world that suddenly seemed so out of control. I
      might not be able to stop the virus, but I could control what
      I put into my body."
      Good luck, hopefully you will be feeling better soon.
      Claudine


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    • Syd Monk
      Girlybyte, By the way I didn t get your name-so I will use your email handle I guess, for now anyway. Just a word of caution about meat. It s true you need
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
        Girlybyte,

        By the way I didn't get your name-so I will use your email handle I guess,
        for now anyway.

        Just a word of caution about meat. It's true you need protein, and meat is a
        good source, but actually you should still avoid meat. The problems with
        meat are:

        1. Ammonia is produces as a by product of meat digestion. Your liver must
        convert ammonia into urea, something that may be difficult for it depending
        on your stage of fibrosis. This may result in a build up of ammonia in the
        blood which is a common problem in liver disease. This ammonia build up in
        turn forces the body to take calcium from your bones to balance the PH
        levels in your blood. Additionally, ammonia build up can cause mania.
        Lactulose is prescribed for this but it's better to avoid it in the first
        place.

        2. Meat can take a long time to digest and various toxins are produced as
        it sits in your digestive tract.

        3. Meat often has high levels of pesticides, hormones and antibiotics in
        it.

        There are better sources for protein. Eggs, whey protein powder, amino acid
        supplements, beans and rice for example. Beans and rice are particularly
        good for you as rice is easy to digest, especially if you cook it to be a
        little more watery, and beans are full of fiber, protein and micronutrients.
        Additionally, beans have naturally occurring protease inhibitors in them
        which helps to stop viral replication. Additionally, the combination of
        beans and rice provide a nutritionally complete source of all the amino
        acids (protein) we need. I live on beans and I am a rosy cheeked picture of
        health and energy on my good days.

        Yes I am in treatment now. I am a 1b, viral load initially at 20,000 and
        went undetectable at six months. I have three months to go and if I don't
        relapse I will have a good outcome.

        If you have so many small children it may be terribly difficult for you to
        get through therapy. Still, I think you can do it. Especially if you have
        help with the kids like an understanding husband or grandparents that can
        help. The sides can be unpredictable. If you have a lot of them that will
        not help, but some people have very few sides and in that case that will be
        a god send for you.

        I guess you have a difficult decision to make and nobody can tell you what
        is best. I would pay attention to the biopsy report and if it's bad I would
        bite the bullet and start therapy. If you can wait, maybe you should. Your
        call.

        Let us know what you decide and how it goes for you.

        Syd


        >From: Girlybyte@...
        >Reply-To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
        >To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
        >Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks
        >Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:30:48 EDT
        >
        >Hello. Thanks Claudine and Syd for the advise. You both may have really
        >hit on my recent decline in energy. I have tried for the past six months
        >to
        >really stay away from any animal protein at all even.. The ones found in
        >breads, cracker...etc..... I am probably starving for B vitamins. Look
        >out
        >Cattle ranchers... Just Kidding. I really Love meat and I was told to
        >watch
        >animal foods from the first day I was diagnosed with Hep c. I jumped on
        >this
        >wagon of veg only and I have been on a slop since.
        >
        >You guys mentioned good days and bad ones... yes... That is Me. I really
        >have a great life full of really exciting things children, husband,
        >school..
        >career.. all which I really enjoy. Just some days I fall hard into this
        >feeling of can't get nothing done... I will run to the local butcher when
        >they open later. Ummm T. Bones tonight. Yummy. Maybe my body should
        >start
        >slower maybe chicken. Thanks for the smart advise.
        >
        >Hey Syd are you in treatment now? My DR. Really wants me to wait. I have
        >feeling of wanting to jump in treatment and get this thing out of me.
        >Then
        >I realize the timing is not good family wise. I have four children all
        >very
        >young. I need to focus on them for now.
        >
        >Claudine thanks for the really realistic advise. I have looked up the
        >nutritional advise section on the web. I am weak in most areas ... maybe
        >my
        >lights will come back on. HA. Thanks again

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      • Syd Monk
        Girlybyte, By the way, you should get your b-12 with supplements, since you should avoid meat. And don t forget you need to avoid iron. Get that stuff out of
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
          Girlybyte,

          By the way, you should get your b-12 with supplements, since you should
          avoid meat. And don't forget you need to avoid iron. Get that stuff out of
          your diet. It will accelerate the liver damage being caused by the HCV. Be
          especially careful of iron enriched foods like breakfast cereal and white
          bread.

          Syd


          >From: Girlybyte@...
          >Reply-To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
          >To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
          >Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks
          >Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 06:30:48 EDT
          >
          >Hello. Thanks Claudine and Syd for the advise. You both may have really
          >hit on my recent decline in energy. I have tried for the past six months
          >to
          >really stay away from any animal protein at all even.. The ones found in
          >breads, cracker...etc..... I am probably starving for B vitamins. Look
          >out
          >Cattle ranchers... Just Kidding. I really Love meat and I was told to
          >watch
          >animal foods from the first day I was diagnosed with Hep c. I jumped on
          >this
          >wagon of veg only and I have been on a slop since.
          >
          >You guys mentioned good days and bad ones... yes... That is Me. I really
          >have a great life full of really exciting things children, husband,
          >school..
          >career.. all which I really enjoy. Just some days I fall hard into this
          >feeling of can't get nothing done... I will run to the local butcher when
          >they open later. Ummm T. Bones tonight. Yummy. Maybe my body should
          >start
          >slower maybe chicken. Thanks for the smart advise.
          >
          >Hey Syd are you in treatment now? My DR. Really wants me to wait. I have
          >feeling of wanting to jump in treatment and get this thing out of me.
          >Then
          >I realize the timing is not good family wise. I have four children all
          >very
          >young. I need to focus on them for now.
          >
          >Claudine thanks for the really realistic advise. I have looked up the
          >nutritional advise section on the web. I am weak in most areas ... maybe
          >my
          >lights will come back on. HA. Thanks again

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        • isqazi
          Syd, What about if you have a problem with weight loss and are having to gain weight and muscle mass. I had another episode of encephalopathy. My ammonia level
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
            Syd,

            What about if you have a problem with weight loss and are having to gain weight
            and muscle mass. I had another episode of encephalopathy. My ammonia level was
            102 and of course the normal at my lab is 15 to 60. It was enough to make me
            sleepy, confused, and forgetful. I need the protein and calories to build up so
            I can have a liver transplant. I was told that animal protein is what I needed
            also and not just vegetable protein. It is a catch 22 situation. How can I get
            both and gain the weight? I am so sick of lactulose which I take with the
            neomycin. I have gone from 30 cc three times a day to four times a day. That
            stuff can cause you to spend a small fortune on charmin. Sorry a little Tacky.
            If you a have any ideas let me know.

            Take Care,
            Virginia
          • Syd Monk
            Virginia, First understand I am not qualified to give medical advise. With that in mind I think I can make some helpful suggestions. Your ammonia may be high
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
              Virginia,

              First understand I am not qualified to give medical advise. With that in
              mind I think I can make some helpful suggestions. Your ammonia may be high
              because you are eating a lot of meat in order to get ready for your
              transplant. This might be OK since you are getting a transplant soon, I
              assume, and the trade off may be necessary. Consult your physician if he
              seems knowledgeable about this.

              But if I were you I would start getting my protein from eggs, whey protein
              powder, amino acid supplements and large amounts of rice and beans or corn
              and rice in combination. This should give you the necessary protein and be
              much easier on your liver. Basically, protein is protein. Essentially
              protein is made up of amino acids and if you have all the right amino acids
              in the right amounts your protein requirements should be met.

              Again, let me stress that I am not qualified to give you clear direction in
              this matter, especially given the seriousness of your condition. I suggest
              you spend whatever time is necessary to research these things for yourself
              so you can make your own informed decisions regarding this.

              Syd


              >From: isqazi <isqazi@...>
              >Reply-To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
              >To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks
              >Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:34:28 -0700
              >
              >Syd,
              >
              >What about if you have a problem with weight loss and are having to gain
              >weight
              >and muscle mass. I had another episode of encephalopathy. My ammonia level
              >was
              >102 and of course the normal at my lab is 15 to 60. It was enough to make
              >me
              >sleepy, confused, and forgetful. I need the protein and calories to build
              >up so
              >I can have a liver transplant. I was told that animal protein is what I
              >needed
              >also and not just vegetable protein. It is a catch 22 situation. How can I
              >get
              >both and gain the weight? I am so sick of lactulose which I take with the
              >neomycin. I have gone from 30 cc three times a day to four times a day.
              >That
              >stuff can cause you to spend a small fortune on charmin. Sorry a little
              >Tacky.
              >If you a have any ideas let me know.
              >
              >Take Care,
              >Virginia
              >

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            • Syd Monk
              Virginia, No, you did not put me on the spot, I just would hate to be wrong about something and hurt someone with bad advise. It sounds like your diet has
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
                Virginia,

                No, you did not put me on the spot, I just would hate to be wrong about
                something and hurt someone with bad advise.

                It sounds like your diet has plenty of protein in it already. Perhaps
                proteins from any source produces ammonia, though I understand that meat is
                a prime offender in this regard. Still, you sure need to avoid meat, that
                is clear. Any one out there know anything about this?

                Syd


                >From: isqazi <isqazi@...>
                >Reply-To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
                >To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks
                >Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 18:31:34 -0700
                >
                >Syd,
                >
                >I understand what you said about medical advice. I mainly wanted to know
                >the
                >difference and find other sources. I stay in touch with a nutritionist.
                >Sometimes someone may know a source that is forgotten to be mentioned. Meat
                >kills my stomach and I rely on vegetables. I am always looking for more
                >food
                >items to eat. I forgot to tell you I am taking pro-mod. I have ran out of
                >ways
                >to take it. I tried tomato juice, grape juice, lemonade, and orange juice.
                >It is
                >pitiful tasting. I have tried forcing eggs down, but love rice and beans.
                >My
                >husband is pakistani and we eat lots of rice, chickpeas, mung beans,
                >lentils,
                >and others. My Mom fixes lots of butter beans and pintos which I like. I am
                >a
                >typical southerner from Alabama originally. I appreciate your comment. If
                >you
                >know any other foods or ways to take protein powder let me know. I know it
                >is
                >trial and error. I apologize for putting you in a spot. It was more or
                >less
                >wanting to know more about foods and differences in proteins and not
                >medical
                >advice. I am sorry it sounded that way. I am sometimes one brick shy of a
                >load.
                >
                >Thanks for replying,
                >Virginia
                >
                >

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              • isqazi
                Syd, I understand what you said about medical advice. I mainly wanted to know the difference and find other sources. I stay in touch with a nutritionist.
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
                  Syd,

                  I understand what you said about medical advice. I mainly wanted to know the
                  difference and find other sources. I stay in touch with a nutritionist.
                  Sometimes someone may know a source that is forgotten to be mentioned. Meat
                  kills my stomach and I rely on vegetables. I am always looking for more food
                  items to eat. I forgot to tell you I am taking pro-mod. I have ran out of ways
                  to take it. I tried tomato juice, grape juice, lemonade, and orange juice. It is
                  pitiful tasting. I have tried forcing eggs down, but love rice and beans. My
                  husband is pakistani and we eat lots of rice, chickpeas, mung beans, lentils,
                  and others. My Mom fixes lots of butter beans and pintos which I like. I am a
                  typical southerner from Alabama originally. I appreciate your comment. If you
                  know any other foods or ways to take protein powder let me know. I know it is
                  trial and error. I apologize for putting you in a spot. It was more or less
                  wanting to know more about foods and differences in proteins and not medical
                  advice. I am sorry it sounded that way. I am sometimes one brick shy of a load.

                  Thanks for replying,
                  Virginia
                • Claudine Crews
                  Virginia, The only time I have heard medical advise to restrict animal sources of protein is in cases of hepatic encephalopathy, and then only when the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
                    Virginia,
                    The only time I have heard medical advise to restrict animal sources of
                    protein is in cases of hepatic encephalopathy, and then only when the
                    medications to help with ammonia levels are not working. Vegetable sources
                    are ok. But in your case you say your doctors say to eat meat, and you are
                    on a transplant list. Maybe they think that your medications are
                    controlling the encephalopathy enough, I don't know. With your situation as
                    serious as it is I really would stick with whatever your doctors are telling
                    you, and if you have questions about their advise be sure to talk to them
                    about it. They may feel that your need for protein right now outweighs any
                    risks of increasing ammonia levels. I do know that it takes a lot more
                    beans and rice to get the equivalent amount protein you would get in a
                    serving of meat or poultry, and you have had a lot of problems with your
                    appetite, and weight, so maybe they are worried you won't eat enough. Is
                    there any way at all that you like eggs? They are an excellent source of
                    complete, high quality protein. I thought all good southerners liked
                    Deviled Eggs :)
                    And what about breakfast tacos? No one who lives in South TEXAS can go too
                    long without breakfast tacos! (Whole wheat tortillas are pretty good, too.)
                    I would have withdrawal symptoms, I'm sure.
                    I posted an article on nutrition in liver disease from the American
                    Liver Foundation. But, I still think that you really need to go over this
                    with your doctors. You are NOT in the usual situation, and I would hate to
                    tell you the wrong thing to do.
                    Take care, Claudine


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                  • Girlybyte@aol.com
                    hey anyone out there have hepc and dry skin?? I feel like a flake....:) Sabrena
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
                      hey anyone out there have hepc and dry skin?? I feel like a flake....:)

                      Sabrena
                    • isqazi
                      Claudine, I have had a second bout of hepatic encephalopathy. I did increase the lactulose and it worked in helping. I have gotten worried, because of it
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 3, 2000
                        Claudine,
                        I have had a second bout of hepatic encephalopathy. I did increase the
                        lactulose and it worked in helping. I have gotten worried, because of it
                        happening a second time. The first time I almost went into a coma. The second
                        time I immediately felt the change because I had become so drowsy and wanted to
                        sleep too much. I also began to slurr my speech and couldn't concentrate at all
                        on simple task. I am just at a stage that I am scared again. I just hate what
                        is happening. I am at the end stages of the cirrhosis and it scares me. When
                        there was talk of moving me up to a 2b it really hit hard. I was still one point
                        off. I have nine points and still at a status 3. I am not anxious to move up
                        because I am close to a 2b and may get transplanted sooner. I am just being
                        silly I guess. Since the increase in Lactulose for two days seemed to work, I
                        do feel better because my thinking is clearer, but still scared.

                        I do love deviled eggs. It is scrambled and fried I find disgusting. Yuk. I get
                        nauseated at the smell. I know I have to gain the weight. I don't want to go
                        back to tube feedings again. I am at a 119 now. I thought I would never get past
                        107 lbs.

                        Claudine I know everyone must think I am babyish and making too much of it all.
                        I just get fearful for my multihandicapped cerebral palsy daughter and my little
                        boy. My little girl is so medically fragile and needs 24 hr round the clock
                        skilled nursing care. I have 9 hrs/day 7 days/week and my Mom helps me with the
                        other 15 hrs. I just want to do all I can for my little ones. I feel so bad,
                        because Mother takes care of her for the majority of the time and takes care of
                        my son, my husband, my father, and me too. There is also all the house work. I
                        can't clean the kitchen or make supper without getting so exhausted. I just
                        want to be a Mom again and want all of this to go away. I know that there is
                        plenty a lot worse than me and I am very fortunate to be in the decent health I
                        am in. It still hurts to see someone take care of your children for you. I do
                        spend as much time with them as possible and try to play and read books to them.

                        I need a kick in the behind don't I. I need to quit the pity party and get on
                        with living instead of feeling so blue. Aim good and kick hard Claudine.

                        Take care,
                        Virginia
                      • isqazi
                        Sabrena, I have cryptogenic cirrhosis and i have the dry flaky skin. I have to use a lot of corn huskers lotion on my elbows and knees. I use lots of baby oil
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 4, 2000
                          Sabrena,

                          I have cryptogenic cirrhosis and i have the dry flaky skin. I have to use a
                          lot of corn huskers lotion on my elbows and knees. I use lots of baby oil
                          in my bath. It works for me. I don't know about anyone else.
                          Take care,
                          virginia
                        • Billie Brown
                          ... From: isqazi To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com Sent: June 4, 2000 7:02:24 AM GMT Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 4, 2000
                            ------Original Message------
                            From: isqazi <isqazi@...>
                            To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
                            Sent: June 4, 2000 7:02:24 AM GMT
                            Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks


                            Sabrena,

                            I have cryptogenic cirrhosis and i have the dry flaky skin. I have to use a
                            lot of corn huskers lotion on my elbows and knees. I use lots of baby oil
                            in my bath. It works for me. I don't know about anyone else.
                            Take care,
                            virginia

                            Sabrena,
                            What is cryptogenic cirrhosis?

                            Billie
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                          • isqazi
                            Billie, cryptogenic cirrhosis is cirrhosis of unknown cause. Virginia
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 4, 2000
                              Billie,

                              cryptogenic cirrhosis is cirrhosis of unknown cause.

                              Virginia
                            • Claudine Crews
                              Dear Virginia, I think you must be very strong, stronger than you think you are and give your self credit for, to have handled everything you have had to
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 4, 2000
                                Dear Virginia,
                                I think you must be very strong, stronger than you think you are and
                                give your self credit for, to have handled everything you have had to handle
                                in your life so far. I'd say you need a pat on the back, and a hug, not a
                                kick in the behind. I can't even imagine going through all you have already
                                been through and still being sane. I think your children are lucky to have
                                you for a mother. Watching you deal with all your problems, and overcoming
                                them, and seeing your mother helping out when she is needed, has got to be a
                                sad, but good lesson in compassion, caring, helping others in need, and
                                love, for your children. It is just a shame that you have all suffered so
                                much too.
                                As for being scared, who wouldn't be? Facing a transplant is a very scary
                                thing I would imagine, and being as sick as you are is also bound to be very
                                scary. But hopefully you will get your transplant, and eventually you will
                                be the Mom that you want to be. Now you need to build up your strength so
                                that when the time for a transplant comes you will be as healthy as you can
                                be, and give yourself every chance for the transplant to go smoothly. So do
                                what your doctor's telling you, EAT, especially vegetable sources of
                                protein. Try to look up some information on vegetarianism, and read up on
                                combining sources of protein, in order to make sure you are getting complete
                                proteins. Get your mom to make you some deviled eggs to munch on. By the
                                way, you can reduce the fat in them by disposing of part of the yolks (not
                                all, they are good for you too) and substituting some non-fat plain yogurt
                                for the mayonnaise or salad dressing. Take care of yourself!!!
                                Claudine



                                >

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                              • Syd Monk
                                Virginia, Avocados are very good for the liver, I forget why. I think they are a good source of glutathione. Still, they will help you gain weight, are good
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 4, 2000
                                  Virginia,

                                  Avocados are very good for the liver, I forget why. I think they are a good
                                  source of glutathione. Still, they will help you gain weight, are good for
                                  you and are easy to eat plain or in salads. I would try 1/2 an avocado a
                                  day at first, or less, and see how you do with them. They are oily, and the
                                  liver has to work a little harder to digest oils so go slow at first and
                                  make sure you can digest them OK. Its all good oils though.

                                  Syd


                                  >From: isqazi <isqazi@...>
                                  >Reply-To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
                                  >To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@egroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Hey cool advise thanks
                                  >Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 23:58:22 -0700
                                  >
                                  >Claudine,
                                  >I have had a second bout of hepatic encephalopathy. I did increase the
                                  >lactulose and it worked in helping. I have gotten worried, because of it
                                  >happening a second time. The first time I almost went into a coma. The
                                  >second
                                  >time I immediately felt the change because I had become so drowsy and
                                  >wanted to
                                  >sleep too much. I also began to slurr my speech and couldn't concentrate at
                                  >all
                                  >on simple task. I am just at a stage that I am scared again. I just hate
                                  >what
                                  >is happening. I am at the end stages of the cirrhosis and it scares me.
                                  >When
                                  >there was talk of moving me up to a 2b it really hit hard. I was still one
                                  >point
                                  >off. I have nine points and still at a status 3. I am not anxious to move
                                  >up
                                  >because I am close to a 2b and may get transplanted sooner. I am just being
                                  >silly I guess. Since the increase in Lactulose for two days seemed to
                                  >work, I
                                  >do feel better because my thinking is clearer, but still scared.
                                  >
                                  >I do love deviled eggs. It is scrambled and fried I find disgusting. Yuk. I
                                  >get
                                  >nauseated at the smell. I know I have to gain the weight. I don't want to
                                  >go
                                  >back to tube feedings again. I am at a 119 now. I thought I would never get
                                  >past
                                  >107 lbs.
                                  >
                                  >Claudine I know everyone must think I am babyish and making too much of it
                                  >all.
                                  >I just get fearful for my multihandicapped cerebral palsy daughter and my
                                  >little
                                  >boy. My little girl is so medically fragile and needs 24 hr round the
                                  >clock
                                  >skilled nursing care. I have 9 hrs/day 7 days/week and my Mom helps me with
                                  >the
                                  >other 15 hrs. I just want to do all I can for my little ones. I feel so
                                  >bad,
                                  >because Mother takes care of her for the majority of the time and takes
                                  >care of
                                  >my son, my husband, my father, and me too. There is also all the house
                                  >work. I
                                  >can't clean the kitchen or make supper without getting so exhausted. I
                                  >just
                                  >want to be a Mom again and want all of this to go away. I know that there
                                  >is
                                  >plenty a lot worse than me and I am very fortunate to be in the decent
                                  >health I
                                  >am in. It still hurts to see someone take care of your children for you. I
                                  >do
                                  >spend as much time with them as possible and try to play and read books to
                                  >them.
                                  >
                                  > I need a kick in the behind don't I. I need to quit the pity party and
                                  >get on
                                  >with living instead of feeling so blue. Aim good and kick hard Claudine.
                                  >
                                  >Take care,
                                  >Virginia
                                  >

                                  ________________________________________________________________________
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                                • Gail Samples
                                  ... micronutrients. ... cheeked picture of ... Beans, beans, good for your heart....whom amongst us knew as children when we chanted this ditty what lay in
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 6, 2000
                                    ----------
                                    >From: "Syd Monk" <syd_monk@...>

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > There are better sources for protein. beans are full of fiber, protein and
                                    micronutrients.
                                    > Additionally, beans have naturally occurring protease inhibitors in them
                                    > which helps to stop viral replication. I live on beans and I am a rosy
                                    cheeked picture of
                                    > health and energy on my good days.

                                    Beans, beans, good for your heart....whom amongst us knew as children when
                                    we chanted this ditty what lay in store for us?

                                    Gail
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