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RE: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Re: astralgus

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  • Gail Samples
    Yes-the immune system is a complex thing, and frankly I am now very leery of NEW products that are targeted towards enhancing the immune system. I now have
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 4, 2004
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      Yes-the immune system is a complex thing, and frankly I am now very leery of
      NEW products that are targeted towards enhancing the immune system. I now
      have permanent dry eye/mouth syndrome from my last year on Infergen (at the
      time a newly approved multi-species form of interferon-yes, I was a
      pharmaceutical guinea pig), and developed problems with food allergies when
      I tried a yeast derived product (Beta-1,3-glucan) that supposedly beefed up
      the immune system-that is cleared up now. So yes, any prescription drug or
      supplement aimed towards the immune system can turn on the taker. That
      said, astralgus has been used for several thousand years in China-safely.
      It is not to be taken by people with autoimmune problems-but that should be
      obvious, and you can overdose with it-causing selenium poisoning-how much is
      an overdose, I could not find. All in all, Astralgus is a fairly well-known
      and researched herb. I suppose though,(how grudgingly I admit this!) that
      you are right in that it should be approached with caution-and perhaps not
      the excitement I had upon researching it. I have used it before with no
      problem. I do not take it now as I get distressed sometimes at the amount
      of supps I take to live with this lousy disease, and try to take only the
      things that have distinctly made me feel better. I am thinking though of
      getting it for my husband-who has deadly high cholesterol (is on Rx for
      this), clogging arteries, high blood pressure, etc, etc. Adding to the
      confusion-

      gail


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mark Middle Mountain [mailto:gourdmad@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 9:32 PM
      To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Re: astralgus



      Not to rain on the parade but...

      The immune system is a complex thing. It is not like dialing up a rheostat,
      and the higher the better. Some parts of it, like naturally produced
      interferon, would be good to dial up. However, a lot of the damage caused
      to the liver is by the immune system itself. Inflammation is an immune
      system response. Unless I heard at least some anecdotal evidence that
      astralgus boosts the correct part(s) of the immune system, I would be a
      little cautious. It may be great for an acute viral condition like colds and
      flu, but for a chronic one like HCV...

      I am not saying it is bad, and it may be very good, but don't approach it
      simplistically.



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    • alleypat
      Mark is right. Other problems can be caused by increased immune system, sometimes caused by the increase that interferon causes (or triggers I should say)
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 4, 2004
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        Mark is right. Other problems can be caused by increased immune system, sometimes caused by the increase that interferon causes (or triggers I should say) like fibromyalgia, autoimmune problems, thyroid problems, diabetes, etc. Read the pamphlet on the side effects of interferon, some of those are from the interferon, some of those are from the effects the increased immune system on the body. Chronic conditions like HCV keep our immune system turn ON and UP constantly, that's why we feel sick a lot, our bodies are fighting the virus all the time or most of the time. The virus isn't making us feel sick, it's our immune system that makes us feel sick. (of course, when our liver kaputs, we feel sick lol). So if you turn your immune system on and up more that just increases the feel bad problem. Attacking the virus, I think, should be a more controlled process i.e. doctor driven, tested, etc.

        Alley
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mark Middle Mountain
        To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:32 PM
        Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Re: astralgus


        Not to rain on the parade but...

        The immune system is a complex thing. It is not like dialing up a rheostat,
        and the higher the better. Some parts of it, like naturally produced
        interferon, would be good to dial up. However, a lot of the damage caused
        to the liver is by the immune system itself. Inflammation is an immune
        system response. Unless I heard at least some anecdotal evidence that
        astralgus boosts the correct part(s) of the immune system, I would be a
        little cautious. It may be great for an acute viral condition like colds and
        flu, but for a chronic one like HCV...

        I am not saying it is bad, and it may be very good, but don't approach it
        simplistically.



        Welcome to GIHepWorld

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      • Mark Middle Mountain
        ... constantly, that s why we feel sick a lot, our bodies are fighting the virus all the time or most of the time. The virus isn t making us feel sick, it s
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 4, 2004
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          >Chronic conditions like HCV keep our immune system turn ON and UP
          constantly, that's why we feel sick a lot, our bodies are fighting the virus
          all the time or most of the time. The virus isn't making us feel sick, it's
          our immune system that makes us feel sick<

          On the positive side, I virtually never get colds or the flu, even when they
          are dropping like flies all around me. My immune system is too cranked up
          for the piss ant viruses to take hold. Cure for the common cold - HCV :-)
        • alleypat
          I don t get those either usually, never got the flu till after I was dx d with hcv, and then it might have been the hcv who knows. I tend to get sinus crud tho
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 4, 2004
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            I don't get those either usually, never got the flu till after I was dx'd with hcv, and then it might have been the hcv who knows. I tend to get sinus crud tho now arg. I'm like a walking barometer.

            Alley
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mark Middle Mountain
            To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:48 PM
            Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Re: astralgus


            >Chronic conditions like HCV keep our immune system turn ON and UP
            constantly, that's why we feel sick a lot, our bodies are fighting the virus
            all the time or most of the time. The virus isn't making us feel sick, it's
            our immune system that makes us feel sick<

            On the positive side, I virtually never get colds or the flu, even when they
            are dropping like flies all around me. My immune system is too cranked up
            for the piss ant viruses to take hold. Cure for the common cold - HCV :-)



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          • Mark Middle Mountain
            Hi Tatezi. Nice to hear from you. Good post on astralgus. I will check the bulk mix I am taking to see if it is in there. If not, I may add it. I wonder how
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 5, 2004
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              Hi Tatezi. Nice to hear from you. Good post on astralgus. I will check the
              bulk mix I am taking to see if it is in there. If not, I may add it.

              I wonder how significantly it increases natural interferon production, as
              mentioned in the post? Do you feel there is a possiblity that taking it
              while on treatment may be pushing the total interferon dose higher enough to
              worsen side effects? Probably doesn't , just a thought.

              Certainly seems like increasing the natural interferon while deferring
              treatment is a good thing.
            • Tatezi
              Hi Mark...thanks for the welcome. Glad I was able to post some helpful info on astragalus root. While I ve been on no mail, I ve occasionally checked the
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 5, 2004
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                Hi Mark...thanks for the welcome. Glad I was able to post some helpful info on astragalus root. While I've been on no mail, I've occasionally checked the archives and have seen some discussions where I felt that someone with herb knowledge needed to be around to guide folks. But I just wasn't ready to come back yet.

                I believe that when not on treatment we should take as many supplements as we can that create more interferon in our systems. But again, care has to be taken that they are not detrimental to those with liver disease. For instance, the chinese use a combination of ginseng and astragalus...ginseng is not good for those with liver damage. And another mistake people often make is mixing herbs that counteract one another or cancel one another out.

                I am a firm believer in using our Mother's gifts for healing. But it has to be done with care and lots of research. And if using Chinese herbs it is critical that you only buy naturally grown herbs. Nowadays most Chinese herbs carried in quality health stores are certified pesticide free. China has different laws about pesticides than America does and use some that are toxic to us.

                Somewhere in my herb study files, I once made a list of the herbs that help produce natural interferon. I know where the files are...but it would take some time to find that particular info. And with working full time and being in about my 30th week of treatment, I don't have a whole lot of energy to search things out. But if I come across it, I'll post it.

                There has only been one herb I have stopped taking the two times I've been in treatment...blupleum (I always spell that wrong unless I have a bottle of it handy). Blupluem and interferon react badly together and and the result is toxicidity. This doesn't happen with supplements that help increase interferon, but it does with the man made interferons.

                So, where is my Willem and why hasn't he welcomed me back? :-))

                Blessings
                Tatezi


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Mark Middle Mountain
                To: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:59 PM
                Subject: [GIWorld-Hepatitis] Re: astralgus



                Hi Tatezi. Nice to hear from you. Good post on astralgus. I will check the
                bulk mix I am taking to see if it is in there. If not, I may add it.

                I wonder how significantly it increases natural interferon production, as
                mentioned in the post? Do you feel there is a possiblity that taking it
                while on treatment may be pushing the total interferon dose higher enough to
                worsen side effects? Probably doesn't , just a thought.

                Certainly seems like increasing the natural interferon while deferring
                treatment is a good thing.



                Welcome to GIHepWorld

                Post message: GIWorld-Hepatitis@yahoogroups.com
                Subscribe: GIWorld-Hepatitis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe: GIWorld-Hepatitis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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