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Re: Help requested with DVB World installation

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  • a_van_belle
    Hello Terry, The guide on the GEO disk was originally written for XP. Windows 7 needs some additional settings that are described by Mike Stevens in GEO
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 1, 2013
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      Hello Terry,

      The guide on the GEO disk was originally written for XP. Windows 7 needs some additional settings that are described by Mike Stevens in GEO Quarterly 29 (March 2011) and on David's site.

      And on newer EUMETSAT Client CDROMs (I think from version 5.6 onwards) there is a guide named "Quickinstall_DVBworld_Windows7.pdf"

      Also check on http://www.eumetsat.int/Home/Main/DataAccess/EUMETCast/ReceptionStationSet-up/SP_201003171032773?l=en
      and David Taylor's webpages for help on setting up.

      When the satellite is not set correctly you may lack administrator privileges while copying the files. But manually you can setup the satellite and achieve the same but do not forget to set the correct PIDs !

      But "channel lost" and "Coordinator lost" generally point to a system that is not able to handle all incoming data.
      Did you edit recv-channels.ini to limit data flow?
      Did you install a RAMdisk ?(required if you receive high volume data like Metop and Modis)

      Good luck,
      Arne van Belle


      --- In GEO-Subscribers@yahoogroups.com, Terry Mullen <terrymullen@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all
      >
      > Thanks for the replies.
      >
      > I am further forward now, but not there yet!
      >
      > Even though I'd run the appropriate file on the GEO disk, the satellite had not been set correctly, so that was easily rectified and the strength and quality readouts reverted to the levels I'd had originally. Running Tellicast gives a black "T" on a yellow background which changes to a pink "T" after a few minutes but no "received" directory appears as normal and the log file is full of error messages such as "channel lost" and "Coordinator lost". The IP address is set correctly.
      >
      > The pdf file on my GEO CD which I have been working from is dated Aug 2009 so I clearly do not have the latest files, appropriate to W7.
      >
      > I must be very nearly there - any more ideas please?
      >
      > Terry Mullen
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Andy Eskelson
      First a happy new year to everyone! I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little Peak RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying. So I decided
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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        First a happy new year to everyone!


        I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little Peak
        RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.

        So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
        problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather useless
        however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high power
        transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are really rather
        good.

        I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups photos
        section.


        20130104131600.jpg is the received image

        sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals and pager
        wiping out the signal.

        You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal down into
        the noise.


        I used SRD# as the receiver software
        The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp, which does
        have some filtering in it.

        The image was decoded with WxToImg

        There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of the left
        hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the entire IF, so
        be careful as to what you select.

        When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024 Khz, that
        produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass generates nearly
        100Mb of data.

        I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.


        The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true for other
        decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the file into
        Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both windows and
        Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner there is a drop
        down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to 11025. Then use
        File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file. That's all that is
        required.

        The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see the terrible
        Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the cloud cover
        over Germany is really very good.
        This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the bottom, and
        Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You can guess
        where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)

        It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into the Peak
        through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However from this
        quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think that the
        reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is some form of
        auto control for SDR#...

        If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at receiving
        some images.


        Andy
      • rob
        Hi, Andy. I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was asked by Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our werkgroep Kunstmanen .
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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          Hi, Andy.

          I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was asked by
          Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our "werkgroep
          Kunstmanen". (Les, it's still on my to-do list!)

          You can see some results in:
          http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html

          I didn't use any preamp, and my antenna is certainly "not the best
          there is"; "result" is unusable.
          At the very bottom of this page is a picture from one of our working
          group members, which is not bad at all, so it is possible to get very
          acceptable results. As far as I understand this picture was made without
          any pre-amp, just an antenna and the dongle.

          I am still trying to get something usefull. I have no reliable
          APT-receiver, so I am not sure where things go wrong.
          Anyway, this dongle is certainly a nice and usefull "toy".

          Rpb Alblas.



          Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
          > First a happy new year to everyone!
          >
          > I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little
          > Peak
          > RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.
          >
          > So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
          > problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather useless
          > however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high power
          > transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are really
          > rather
          > good.
          >
          > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
          > photos
          > section.
          >
          > 20130104131600.jpg is the received image
          >
          > sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals and
          > pager
          > wiping out the signal.
          >
          > You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal down
          > into
          > the noise.
          >
          > I used SRD# as the receiver software
          > The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp, which
          > does
          > have some filtering in it.
          >
          > The image was decoded with WxToImg
          >
          > There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of the left
          > hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the entire IF,
          > so
          > be careful as to what you select.
          >
          > When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024 Khz, that
          > produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass generates nearly
          > 100Mb of data.
          >
          > I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.
          >
          > The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true for
          > other
          > decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the file into
          > Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both windows and
          > Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner there is a
          > drop
          > down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to 11025.
          > Then use
          > File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file. That's all
          > that is
          > required.
          >
          > The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see the
          > terrible
          > Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the cloud
          > cover
          > over Germany is really very good.
          > This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the bottom, and
          > Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You can guess
          > where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)
          >
          > It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into the Peak
          > through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However from
          > this
          > quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think that the
          > reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is some form
          > of
          > auto control for SDR#...
          >
          > If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at receiving
          > some images.
          >
          > Andy
          >
          >
          >
          > Links:
          > ------
          > [1]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydW9wcTE4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMjM4NjE-?act=reply&messageNum=13612
          > [2]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNGdrNHU0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMjM4NjE-
          > [3]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3cjVqbm4wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMjM4NjEEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
          > [4]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncTZvY3A0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzIzODYx?o=6
          > [5]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNWNzYjV0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzIzODYx
          > [6]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmJpZDdhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMjM4NjE-
          > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
          > [8]
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM2VpczE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzMyMzg2MQ--
          > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • rob
          Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24: ... Hi, Andy. I try to find your SDR photo s on http://www.g0poy.com, but couldn t find them. I see a left-menu with
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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            Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
            ...
            >
            > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
            > photos
            > section.
            >
            Hi, Andy.
            I try to find your SDR photo's on http://www.g0poy.com, but couldn't
            find them.

            I see a left-menu with items 'home'....wxsat....links, but no groups
            photos section?
            Also, items wxsat and noaa don't contain the photo's you are talking
            about?

            Rob.
          • Andy Eskelson
            Try: G0POY album in THIS GROUPS Photos section I will try to write louder in future :-) Andy On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:35:44 +0100
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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              Try: G0POY album in THIS GROUPS Photos section

              I will try to write louder in future :-)


              Andy





              On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:35:44 +0100
              rob <sat@...> wrote:

              >
              > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
              > ...
              > >
              > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
              > > photos
              > > section.
              > >
              > Hi, Andy.
              > I try to find your SDR photo's on http://www.g0poy.com, but couldn't
              > find them.
              >
              > I see a left-menu with items 'home'....wxsat....links, but no groups
              > photos section?
              > Also, items wxsat and noaa don't contain the photo's you are talking
              > about?
              >
              > Rob.
              >
              >
              >
            • Andy Eskelson
              Rob, The basic problem there is that you have selected WFM. That s a different demodulator and is no good for APT. APT is a narrow FM type transmission it s
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Rob,

                The basic problem there is that you have selected WFM. That's a
                different demodulator and is no good for APT. APT is a narrow FM type
                transmission it's just that we need a wider bandwidth to cater for the
                doppler shift.

                So set to NFM and the filter to 40000 and you should get much better
                results.

                The antenna is not that important, a bog standard 144Mhz vertical will do
                for the good overhead passes.

                The wide FM will be very very noisy and low signal level. You have about
                a 150khz bandwidth to cater for stereo broadcast and the APT is only
                using about 30Khz of it, so there is a lot of noise to signal...

                It's worth upgrading the SDR# package (if you have not already done so) as well
                there are a few enhancements on it that you might be missing.


                Andy



                On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:02:36 +0100
                rob <sat@...> wrote:

                > Hi, Andy.
                >
                > I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was asked by
                > Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our "werkgroep
                > Kunstmanen". (Les, it's still on my to-do list!)
                >
                > You can see some results in:
                > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                >
                > I didn't use any preamp, and my antenna is certainly "not the best
                > there is"; "result" is unusable.
                > At the very bottom of this page is a picture from one of our working
                > group members, which is not bad at all, so it is possible to get very
                > acceptable results. As far as I understand this picture was made without
                > any pre-amp, just an antenna and the dongle.
                >
                > I am still trying to get something usefull. I have no reliable
                > APT-receiver, so I am not sure where things go wrong.
                > Anyway, this dongle is certainly a nice and usefull "toy".
                >
                > Rpb Alblas.
                >
                >
                >
                > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                > > First a happy new year to everyone!
                > >
                > > I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little
                > > Peak
                > > RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.
                > >
                > > So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
                > > problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather useless
                > > however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high power
                > > transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are really
                > > rather
                > > good.
                > >
                > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                > > photos
                > > section.
                > >
                > > 20130104131600.jpg is the received image
                > >
                > > sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals and
                > > pager
                > > wiping out the signal.
                > >
                > > You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal down
                > > into
                > > the noise.
                > >
                > > I used SRD# as the receiver software
                > > The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp, which
                > > does
                > > have some filtering in it.
                > >
                > > The image was decoded with WxToImg
                > >
                > > There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of the left
                > > hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the entire IF,
                > > so
                > > be careful as to what you select.
                > >
                > > When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024 Khz, that
                > > produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass generates nearly
                > > 100Mb of data.
                > >
                > > I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.
                > >
                > > The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true for
                > > other
                > > decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the file into
                > > Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both windows and
                > > Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner there is a
                > > drop
                > > down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to 11025.
                > > Then use
                > > File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file. That's all
                > > that is
                > > required.
                > >
                > > The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see the
                > > terrible
                > > Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the cloud
                > > cover
                > > over Germany is really very good.
                > > This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the bottom, and
                > > Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You can guess
                > > where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)
                > >
                > > It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into the Peak
                > > through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However from
                > > this
                > > quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think that the
                > > reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is some form
                > > of
                > > auto control for SDR#...
                > >
                > > If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at receiving
                > > some images.
                > >
                > > Andy
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • rob
                ... Better try to write correct: you said:
                Message 7 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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                  Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:51:
                  > Try: G0POY album in THIS GROUPS Photos section
                  >
                  > I will try to write louder in future :-)
                  Better try to write correct: you said:
                  ....into the G0POY album in THE groups photo section... ;-)


                  >
                  > Andy
                  >
                  > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:35:44 +0100
                  > rob sat@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                  > > ...
                  > > >
                  > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                  > > > photos
                  > > > section.
                  > > >
                  > > Hi, Andy.
                  > > I try to find your SDR photo's on http://www.g0poy.com, [1] but
                  > couldn't
                  > > find them.
                  > >
                  > > I see a left-menu with items 'home'....wxsat....links, but no
                  > groups
                  > > photos section?
                  > > Also, items wxsat and noaa don't contain the photo's you are
                  > talking
                  > > about?
                  > >
                  > > Rob.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Links:
                  > ------
                  > [1] http://www.g0poy.com,
                  > [2]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNG01Y29vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-?act=reply&messageNum=13615
                  > [3]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY2YxcXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                  > [4]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3a2k5ZHM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjMEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                  > [5]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncW1yYnRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz?o=6
                  > [6]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJndHBkZ3IxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz
                  > [7]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmajZvbTN0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                  > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                  > [9]
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJla2hyMDU5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzMzOTg2Mw--
                  > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • rob
                  Andy, I have selected WFM, but bandwidth was set to 50 kHz. As far as I understand selecting WFM and then lower bandwidth to 40 kHz is the same as selecting
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
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                    Andy,

                    I have selected WFM, but bandwidth was set to 50 kHz. As far as I
                    understand selecting WFM and then lower bandwidth to 40 kHz is the same
                    as selecting NFM and then increase bandwidth to 40 kHz? Hm, maybe not;
                    sounds different. I'll give it another try.
                    I'll upgrade to a new version; at least the recording option isn't
                    present in my version. I hope settings are then also saved; that's not
                    the case now, which is very unhandy.

                    Rob.



                    Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:58:
                    > Rob,
                    >
                    > The basic problem there is that you have selected WFM. That's a
                    > different demodulator and is no good for APT. APT is a narrow FM type
                    > transmission it's just that we need a wider bandwidth to cater for
                    > the
                    > doppler shift.
                    >
                    > So set to NFM and the filter to 40000 and you should get much better
                    > results.
                    >
                    > The antenna is not that important, a bog standard 144Mhz vertical
                    > will do
                    > for the good overhead passes.
                    >
                    > The wide FM will be very very noisy and low signal level. You have
                    > about
                    > a 150khz bandwidth to cater for stereo broadcast and the APT is only
                    > using about 30Khz of it, so there is a lot of noise to signal...
                    >
                    > It's worth upgrading the SDR# package (if you have not already done
                    > so) as well
                    > there are a few enhancements on it that you might be missing.
                    >
                    > Andy
                    >
                    > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:02:36 +0100
                    > rob sat@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hi, Andy.
                    > >
                    > > I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was
                    > asked by
                    > > Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our "werkgroep
                    > > Kunstmanen". (Les, it's still on my to-do list!)
                    > >
                    > > You can see some results in:
                    > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1]
                    > >
                    > > I didn't use any preamp, and my antenna is certainly "not the best
                    > > there is"; "result" is unusable.
                    > > At the very bottom of this page is a picture from one of our
                    > working
                    > > group members, which is not bad at all, so it is possible to get
                    > very
                    > > acceptable results. As far as I understand this picture was made
                    > without
                    > > any pre-amp, just an antenna and the dongle.
                    > >
                    > > I am still trying to get something usefull. I have no reliable
                    > > APT-receiver, so I am not sure where things go wrong.
                    > > Anyway, this dongle is certainly a nice and usefull "toy".
                    > >
                    > > Rpb Alblas.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                    > > > First a happy new year to everyone!
                    > > >
                    > > > I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little
                    > > > Peak
                    > > > RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.
                    > > >
                    > > > So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
                    > > > problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather
                    > useless
                    > > > however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high power
                    > > > transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are
                    > really
                    > > > rather
                    > > > good.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                    > > > photos
                    > > > section.
                    > > >
                    > > > 20130104131600.jpg is the received image
                    > > >
                    > > > sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals and
                    > > > pager
                    > > > wiping out the signal.
                    > > >
                    > > > You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal down
                    > > > into
                    > > > the noise.
                    > > >
                    > > > I used SRD# as the receiver software
                    > > > The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp,
                    > which
                    > > > does
                    > > > have some filtering in it.
                    > > >
                    > > > The image was decoded with WxToImg
                    > > >
                    > > > There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of the
                    > left
                    > > > hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the entire
                    > IF,
                    > > > so
                    > > > be careful as to what you select.
                    > > >
                    > > > When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024 Khz,
                    > that
                    > > > produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass generates
                    > nearly
                    > > > 100Mb of data.
                    > > >
                    > > > I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.
                    > > >
                    > > > The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true for
                    > > > other
                    > > > decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the file
                    > into
                    > > > Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both windows
                    > and
                    > > > Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner there
                    > is a
                    > > > drop
                    > > > down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to 11025.
                    > > > Then use
                    > > > File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file. That's
                    > all
                    > > > that is
                    > > > required.
                    > > >
                    > > > The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see the
                    > > > terrible
                    > > > Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the cloud
                    > > > cover
                    > > > over Germany is really very good.
                    > > > This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the bottom,
                    > and
                    > > > Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You can
                    > guess
                    > > > where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)
                    > > >
                    > > > It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into the
                    > Peak
                    > > > through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However
                    > from
                    > > > this
                    > > > quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think that
                    > the
                    > > > reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is some
                    > form
                    > > > of
                    > > > auto control for SDR#...
                    > > >
                    > > > If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at
                    > receiving
                    > > > some images.
                    > > >
                    > > > Andy
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Links:
                    > ------
                    > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                    > [2]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydGpiNnF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-?act=reply&messageNum=13616
                    > [3]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODVoNzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                    > [4]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3Z2Jtbjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjIEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                    > [5]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnM2NjYnJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy?o=6
                    > [6]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnazhnbXU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy
                    > [7]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMmVzN212BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                    > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                    > [9]
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3AzZGg5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzM0MDMyMg--
                    > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Andy Eskelson
                    The demodulators are very different - I tried it. WFM also has some interesting additional functions, you get station ID decoding as well, I was sort of
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The demodulators are very different - I tried it.


                      WFM also has some "interesting" additional functions, you get station ID
                      decoding as well, I was sort of surprised at that one.

                      Andy




                      On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 00:18:12 +0100
                      rob <sat@...> wrote:

                      > Andy,
                      >
                      > I have selected WFM, but bandwidth was set to 50 kHz. As far as I
                      > understand selecting WFM and then lower bandwidth to 40 kHz is the same
                      > as selecting NFM and then increase bandwidth to 40 kHz? Hm, maybe not;
                      > sounds different. I'll give it another try.
                      > I'll upgrade to a new version; at least the recording option isn't
                      > present in my version. I hope settings are then also saved; that's not
                      > the case now, which is very unhandy.
                      >
                      > Rob.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:58:
                      > > Rob,
                      > >
                      > > The basic problem there is that you have selected WFM. That's a
                      > > different demodulator and is no good for APT. APT is a narrow FM type
                      > > transmission it's just that we need a wider bandwidth to cater for
                      > > the
                      > > doppler shift.
                      > >
                      > > So set to NFM and the filter to 40000 and you should get much better
                      > > results.
                      > >
                      > > The antenna is not that important, a bog standard 144Mhz vertical
                      > > will do
                      > > for the good overhead passes.
                      > >
                      > > The wide FM will be very very noisy and low signal level. You have
                      > > about
                      > > a 150khz bandwidth to cater for stereo broadcast and the APT is only
                      > > using about 30Khz of it, so there is a lot of noise to signal...
                      > >
                      > > It's worth upgrading the SDR# package (if you have not already done
                      > > so) as well
                      > > there are a few enhancements on it that you might be missing.
                      > >
                      > > Andy
                      > >
                      > > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:02:36 +0100
                      > > rob sat@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Hi, Andy.
                      > > >
                      > > > I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was
                      > > asked by
                      > > > Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our "werkgroep
                      > > > Kunstmanen". (Les, it's still on my to-do list!)
                      > > >
                      > > > You can see some results in:
                      > > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1]
                      > > >
                      > > > I didn't use any preamp, and my antenna is certainly "not the best
                      > > > there is"; "result" is unusable.
                      > > > At the very bottom of this page is a picture from one of our
                      > > working
                      > > > group members, which is not bad at all, so it is possible to get
                      > > very
                      > > > acceptable results. As far as I understand this picture was made
                      > > without
                      > > > any pre-amp, just an antenna and the dongle.
                      > > >
                      > > > I am still trying to get something usefull. I have no reliable
                      > > > APT-receiver, so I am not sure where things go wrong.
                      > > > Anyway, this dongle is certainly a nice and usefull "toy".
                      > > >
                      > > > Rpb Alblas.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                      > > > > First a happy new year to everyone!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the little
                      > > > > Peak
                      > > > > RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
                      > > > > problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather
                      > > useless
                      > > > > however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high power
                      > > > > transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are
                      > > really
                      > > > > rather
                      > > > > good.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                      > > > > photos
                      > > > > section.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > 20130104131600.jpg is the received image
                      > > > >
                      > > > > sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals and
                      > > > > pager
                      > > > > wiping out the signal.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal down
                      > > > > into
                      > > > > the noise.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I used SRD# as the receiver software
                      > > > > The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp,
                      > > which
                      > > > > does
                      > > > > have some filtering in it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The image was decoded with WxToImg
                      > > > >
                      > > > > There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of the
                      > > left
                      > > > > hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the entire
                      > > IF,
                      > > > > so
                      > > > > be careful as to what you select.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024 Khz,
                      > > that
                      > > > > produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass generates
                      > > nearly
                      > > > > 100Mb of data.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true for
                      > > > > other
                      > > > > decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the file
                      > > into
                      > > > > Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both windows
                      > > and
                      > > > > Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner there
                      > > is a
                      > > > > drop
                      > > > > down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to 11025.
                      > > > > Then use
                      > > > > File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file. That's
                      > > all
                      > > > > that is
                      > > > > required.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see the
                      > > > > terrible
                      > > > > Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the cloud
                      > > > > cover
                      > > > > over Germany is really very good.
                      > > > > This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the bottom,
                      > > and
                      > > > > Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You can
                      > > guess
                      > > > > where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into the
                      > > Peak
                      > > > > through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However
                      > > from
                      > > > > this
                      > > > > quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think that
                      > > the
                      > > > > reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is some
                      > > form
                      > > > > of
                      > > > > auto control for SDR#...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at
                      > > receiving
                      > > > > some images.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Andy
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Links:
                      > > ------
                      > > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                      > > [2]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydGpiNnF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-?act=reply&messageNum=13616
                      > > [3]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODVoNzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                      > > [4]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3Z2Jtbjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjIEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                      > > [5]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnM2NjYnJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy?o=6
                      > > [6]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnazhnbXU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy
                      > > [7]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMmVzN212BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                      > > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                      > > [9]
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3AzZGg5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzM0MDMyMg--
                      > > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Andy Eskelson
                      Both THE and THIS are correct. THE group that the message is posted in, or THIS group the one we are talking about...English is fairly lax in such context
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jan 4, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Both THE and THIS are correct.

                        THE group that the message is posted in, or THIS group the one we are
                        talking about...English is fairly lax in such context which prob causes a
                        bit of confusion at times.

                        It would be better still if Yahoo did not mangle the links so much
                        then you could add them easily to a message.

                        Andy



                        On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 00:01:26 +0100
                        rob <sat@...> wrote:

                        > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:51:
                        > > Try: G0POY album in THIS GROUPS Photos section
                        > >
                        > > I will try to write louder in future :-)
                        > Better try to write correct: you said:
                        > ....into the G0POY album in THE groups photo section... ;-)
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Andy
                        > >
                        > > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:35:44 +0100
                        > > rob sat@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                        > > > ...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                        > > > > photos
                        > > > > section.
                        > > > >
                        > > > Hi, Andy.
                        > > > I try to find your SDR photo's on http://www.g0poy.com, [1] but
                        > > couldn't
                        > > > find them.
                        > > >
                        > > > I see a left-menu with items 'home'....wxsat....links, but no
                        > > groups
                        > > > photos section?
                        > > > Also, items wxsat and noaa don't contain the photo's you are
                        > > talking
                        > > > about?
                        > > >
                        > > > Rob.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Links:
                        > > ------
                        > > [1] http://www.g0poy.com,
                        > > [2]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNG01Y29vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-?act=reply&messageNum=13615
                        > > [3]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY2YxcXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                        > > [4]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3a2k5ZHM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjMEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                        > > [5]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncW1yYnRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz?o=6
                        > > [6]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJndHBkZ3IxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz
                        > > [7]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmajZvbTN0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                        > > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                        > > [9]
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJla2hyMDU5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzMzOTg2Mw--
                        > > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Alan Sewards
                        Hi folks, I have never bothered to access stuff in the photo section UNLESS A DIRECT LINK WAS PROVIDED. If that had been done in this case, this
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 5, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi folks,

                          I have never bothered to access stuff in the photo section UNLESS A
                          DIRECT LINK WAS PROVIDED. If that had been done in this case, this
                          misunderstanding would have been avoided and a lot more people might
                          have seen the images referred to. Think about it folks!

                          Best regards - Alan S

                          On 05/01/2013 12:01 AM, rob wrote:
                          > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:51:
                          > > Try: G0POY album in THIS GROUPS Photos section
                          > >
                          > > I will try to write louder in future :-)
                          > Better try to write correct: you said:
                          > ....into the G0POY album in THE groups photo section... ;-)
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Andy
                          > >
                          > > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:35:44 +0100
                          > > rob sat@... <mailto:sat%40alblas.demon.nl>> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                          > > > ...
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the groups
                          > > > > photos
                          > > > > section.
                          > > > >
                          > > > Hi, Andy.
                          > > > I try to find your SDR photo's on http://www.g0poy.com, [1] but
                          > > couldn't
                          > > > find them.
                          > > >
                          > > > I see a left-menu with items 'home'....wxsat....links, but no
                          > > groups
                          > > > photos section?
                          > > > Also, items wxsat and noaa don't contain the photo's you are
                          > > talking
                          > > > about?
                          > > >
                          > > > Rob.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Links:
                          > > ------
                          > > [1] http://www.g0poy.com,
                          > > [2]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNG01Y29vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-?act=reply&messageNum=13615
                          > > [3]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY2YxcXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                          > > [4]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3a2k5ZHM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjMEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                          > > [5]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncW1yYnRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz?o=6
                          > > [6]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJndHBkZ3IxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzM5ODYz
                          > > [7]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmajZvbTN0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczMzk4NjM-
                          > > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                          > > [9]
                          > >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJla2hyMDU5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzMzOTg2Mw--
                          > > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          Alan Sewards
                          émail: alan@...
                          web site: http://asewards.free.fr
                        • rob
                          I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here. Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the signal is barely coming out of
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jan 5, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                            Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the signal
                            is barely coming out of the noise.
                            I checked and re-checked antenna connections.

                            Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the reason why
                            you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not very good in
                            weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe you can do
                            a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to mine.

                            Rob.



                            Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-05 01:18:
                            > The demodulators are very different - I tried it.
                            >
                            > WFM also has some "interesting" additional functions, you get station
                            > ID
                            > decoding as well, I was sort of surprised at that one.
                            >
                            > Andy
                            >
                            > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 00:18:12 +0100
                            > rob sat@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Andy,
                            > >
                            > > I have selected WFM, but bandwidth was set to 50 kHz. As far as I
                            > > understand selecting WFM and then lower bandwidth to 40 kHz is the
                            > same
                            > > as selecting NFM and then increase bandwidth to 40 kHz? Hm, maybe
                            > not;
                            > > sounds different. I'll give it another try.
                            > > I'll upgrade to a new version; at least the recording option isn't
                            > > present in my version. I hope settings are then also saved; that's
                            > not
                            > > the case now, which is very unhandy.
                            > >
                            > > Rob.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 23:58:
                            > > > Rob,
                            > > >
                            > > > The basic problem there is that you have selected WFM. That's a
                            > > > different demodulator and is no good for APT. APT is a narrow FM
                            > type
                            > > > transmission it's just that we need a wider bandwidth to cater
                            > for
                            > > > the
                            > > > doppler shift.
                            > > >
                            > > > So set to NFM and the filter to 40000 and you should get much
                            > better
                            > > > results.
                            > > >
                            > > > The antenna is not that important, a bog standard 144Mhz vertical
                            > > > will do
                            > > > for the good overhead passes.
                            > > >
                            > > > The wide FM will be very very noisy and low signal level. You
                            > have
                            > > > about
                            > > > a 150khz bandwidth to cater for stereo broadcast and the APT is
                            > only
                            > > > using about 30Khz of it, so there is a lot of noise to signal...
                            > > >
                            > > > It's worth upgrading the SDR# package (if you have not already
                            > done
                            > > > so) as well
                            > > > there are a few enhancements on it that you might be missing.
                            > > >
                            > > > Andy
                            > > >
                            > > > On Fri, 04 Jan 2013 21:02:36 +0100
                            > > > rob sat@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > Hi, Andy.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I did also do some trials with the SDR dongle. Actually, I was
                            > > > asked by
                            > > > > Les to translate for GEO an article I wrote for our "werkgroep
                            > > > > Kunstmanen". (Les, it's still on my to-do list!)
                            > > > >
                            > > > > You can see some results in:
                            > > > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1] [1]
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I didn't use any preamp, and my antenna is certainly "not the
                            > best
                            > > > > there is"; "result" is unusable.
                            > > > > At the very bottom of this page is a picture from one of our
                            > > > working
                            > > > > group members, which is not bad at all, so it is possible to
                            > get
                            > > > very
                            > > > > acceptable results. As far as I understand this picture was
                            > made
                            > > > without
                            > > > > any pre-amp, just an antenna and the dongle.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I am still trying to get something usefull. I have no reliable
                            > > > > APT-receiver, so I am not sure where things go wrong.
                            > > > > Anyway, this dongle is certainly a nice and usefull "toy".
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Rpb Alblas.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-04 19:24:
                            > > > > > First a happy new year to everyone!
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I was prompted by someone I know if WxSat reception on the
                            > little
                            > > > > > Peak
                            > > > > > RTL dongle would be worthwhile trying.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > So I decided to give it a try. As I suspected the
                            > > > > > problem with pagers at my location make the reception rather
                            > > > useless
                            > > > > > however IF you don't have any pager or other nearby high
                            > power
                            > > > > > transmissions, then the results from this little dongle are
                            > > > really
                            > > > > > rather
                            > > > > > good.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I have uploaded three photos into the G0POY album in the
                            > groups
                            > > > > > photos
                            > > > > > section.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > 20130104131600.jpg is the received image
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > sig-and-pager QRM1 and 2 are screen-shots showing the signals
                            > and
                            > > > > > pager
                            > > > > > wiping out the signal.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > You can see in the waterfall how the pagers knock the signal
                            > down
                            > > > > > into
                            > > > > > the noise.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I used SRD# as the receiver software
                            > > > > > The antenna was my tall thin QHF with a RIG masthead preamp,
                            > > > which
                            > > > > > does
                            > > > > > have some filtering in it.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The image was decoded with WxToImg
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > There is a record function in SDR#, (right at the bottom of
                            > the
                            > > > left
                            > > > > > hand side panel) it has options to record the audio or the
                            > entire
                            > > > IF,
                            > > > > > so
                            > > > > > be careful as to what you select.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > When recording the audio the sample rate is very high, 1024
                            > Khz,
                            > > > that
                            > > > > > produces some impressively big files. an 11 min pass
                            > generates
                            > > > nearly
                            > > > > > 100Mb of data.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I set SDR# to NFM with a 40000 filter bandwidth.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The sample rate is too high for WxToImg and that may be true
                            > for
                            > > > > > other
                            > > > > > decoding programs. To convert the sample rate I loaded the
                            > file
                            > > > into
                            > > > > > Audacity which is a audio file editor, available for both
                            > windows
                            > > > and
                            > > > > > Linux It's also free. In the bottom right left hand corner
                            > there
                            > > > is a
                            > > > > > drop
                            > > > > > down box where you can select the sample rate. Set this to
                            > 11025.
                            > > > > > Then use
                            > > > > > File > export to save the file as a microsoft wav file.
                            > That's
                            > > > all
                            > > > > > that is
                            > > > > > required.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The file loaded into WxToImg with no problems. You can see
                            > the
                            > > > > > terrible
                            > > > > > Pager QRM at the top and bottom, however the detail in the
                            > cloud
                            > > > > > cover
                            > > > > > over Germany is really very good.
                            > > > > > This is a S > N image, with N Africa in the noise at the
                            > bottom,
                            > > > and
                            > > > > > Spain fairly clear of the noise about 1/3 of the way up.You
                            > can
                            > > > guess
                            > > > > > where the UK is (hint lots of cloud) :-)
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > It could well be that some of the pager QRM is getting into
                            > the
                            > > > Peak
                            > > > > > through the plastic case, and maybe up the USB leads. However
                            > > > from
                            > > > > > this
                            > > > > > quick test if you don't have any pager problems then I think
                            > that
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > reception should be very good indeed. All that's needed is
                            > some
                            > > > form
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > auto control for SDR#...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > If you have one of these dongles it's worth having a go at
                            > > > receiving
                            > > > > > some images.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Andy
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Links:
                            > > > ------
                            > > > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1]
                            > > > [2]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydGpiNnF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-?act=reply&messageNum=13616
                            > [2]
                            > > > [3]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODVoNzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                            > [3]
                            > > > [4]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3Z2Jtbjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjIEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                            > [4]
                            > > > [5]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnM2NjYnJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy?o=6
                            > [5]
                            > > > [6]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnazhnbXU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy
                            > [6]
                            > > > [7]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMmVzN212BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                            > [7]
                            > > > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html [8]
                            > > > [9]
                            > > >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3AzZGg5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzM0MDMyMg--
                            > [9]
                            > > > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [10]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Links:
                            > ------
                            > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                            > [2]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydGpiNnF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-?act=reply&messageNum=13616
                            > [3]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODVoNzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                            > [4]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3Z2Jtbjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjIEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                            > [5]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnM2NjYnJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy?o=6
                            > [6]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnazhnbXU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQwMzIy
                            > [7]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMmVzN212BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDAzMjI-
                            > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                            > [9]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3AzZGg5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzM0MDMyMg--
                            > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > [11]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyOThsYWJmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxOQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDUxMTc-?act=reply&messageNum=13619
                            > [12]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMmRqc2Z2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDUxMTc-
                            > [13]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3dWYybW5mBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYxOQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDUxMTcEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                            > [14]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncTN2NGx0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQ1MTE3?o=6
                            > [15]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnMm5pOGM1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3MzQ1MTE3
                            > [16]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmODd0ajFxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTczNDUxMTc-
                            > [17]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzlhazFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzM0NTExNw--
                          • Andy Eskelson
                            The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can t take it out of circuit. The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It s there to give a bit of gain for the
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jan 5, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of circuit.
                              The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit of gain
                              for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a dedicated
                              WxSat Rx

                              Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It can
                              receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles / 64Km from
                              me.

                              This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not the best
                              at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.

                              Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for 50Mhz
                              and the signal comes up quite well.

                              On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not too much
                              trouble considering the discone.



                              I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for 144/432 that
                              should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but it will
                              loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.

                              There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to take that
                              as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able to use
                              the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the colinear
                              later in the afternoon.

                              I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a frw
                              ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very noisy....


                              Andy





                              On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                              rob <sat@...> wrote:

                              > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                              > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the signal
                              > is barely coming out of the noise.
                              > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                              >
                              > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the reason why
                              > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not very good in
                              > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe you can do
                              > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to mine.
                              >
                              > Rob.
                            • Andy Eskelson
                              I think you might have to lump it Alan :-) Yahoo links did not usually work between the internal files, as the links are only temporary. So you paste in the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jan 5, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I think you might have to lump it Alan :-)

                                Yahoo links did not usually work between the internal files, as the
                                links are only temporary. So you paste in the link, it then expires and
                                it no longer works. The first link is the one in the browser for the image


                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/photos/album/1477966163/pic/844404092/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc


                                Yahoo may have done something about this, I noticed a small link called
                                permalink in the top right hand corner when the image is open. that LOOKS
                                like the same format of link that is auto generated when files are
                                uploaded in other groups I use.


                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/photos/album/1477966163/pic/844404092/view


                                However when I shove things into a group album, I consider that stating
                                the album name is more than enough.


                                Andy



                                On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 12:06:05 +0100
                                Alan Sewards <alan@...> wrote:

                                > Hi folks,
                                >
                                > I have never bothered to access stuff in the photo section UNLESS A
                                > DIRECT LINK WAS PROVIDED. If that had been done in this case, this
                                > misunderstanding would have been avoided and a lot more people might
                                > have seen the images referred to. Think about it folks!
                                >
                                > Best regards - Alan S
                                >
                              • Andy Eskelson
                                At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and the discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were swamping the signal, I got
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jan 5, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and the
                                  discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were swamping
                                  the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that this
                                  would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear, but that
                                  seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into the
                                  noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and see what
                                  happens.


                                  I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals that are
                                  causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device would
                                  make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in the
                                  preamp I first used may make a huge difference.


                                  Andy




                                  On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                  Andy Eskelson <andyyahoo@...> wrote:

                                  > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of circuit.
                                  > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit of gain
                                  > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a dedicated
                                  > WxSat Rx
                                  >
                                  > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It can
                                  > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles / 64Km from
                                  > me.
                                  >
                                  > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not the best
                                  > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                  >
                                  > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for 50Mhz
                                  > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                  >
                                  > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not too much
                                  > trouble considering the discone.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for 144/432 that
                                  > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but it will
                                  > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                  >
                                  > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to take that
                                  > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able to use
                                  > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the colinear
                                  > later in the afternoon.
                                  >
                                  > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a frw
                                  > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very noisy....
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Andy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                  > rob <sat@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                                  > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the signal
                                  > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                  > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                  > >
                                  > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the reason why
                                  > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not very good in
                                  > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe you can do
                                  > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to mine.
                                  > >
                                  > > Rob.
                                • Andy Eskelson
                                  I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was swamped by noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When the noise dropped for a
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jan 6, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was swamped by
                                    noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When the
                                    noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on the
                                    discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there was
                                    not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or two
                                    second bursts over the entire pass.


                                    So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good image,
                                    however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in the
                                    preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main reason.

                                    (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the middle of
                                    the display and stay there for ages)

                                    This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it will
                                    pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.


                                    I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames the
                                    problem down.



                                    Andy





                                    On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                    Andy Eskelson <andyyahoo@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and the
                                    > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were swamping
                                    > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that this
                                    > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear, but that
                                    > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into the
                                    > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and see what
                                    > happens.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals that are
                                    > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device would
                                    > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in the
                                    > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Andy
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                    > Andy Eskelson <andyyahoo@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of circuit.
                                    > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit of gain
                                    > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a dedicated
                                    > > WxSat Rx
                                    > >
                                    > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It can
                                    > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles / 64Km from
                                    > > me.
                                    > >
                                    > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not the best
                                    > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                    > >
                                    > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for 50Mhz
                                    > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                    > >
                                    > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not too much
                                    > > trouble considering the discone.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for 144/432 that
                                    > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but it will
                                    > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                    > >
                                    > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to take that
                                    > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able to use
                                    > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the colinear
                                    > > later in the afternoon.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a frw
                                    > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very noisy....
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Andy
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                    > > rob <sat@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                                    > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the signal
                                    > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                    > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the reason why
                                    > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not very good in
                                    > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe you can do
                                    > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to mine.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Rob.
                                  • rob
                                    I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and compared it with a normal receiver. At last I managed to make some real NOAA pictures with the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jan 10, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and compared
                                      it with a 'normal' receiver. At last I managed to make some real NOAA
                                      pictures with the SDR; see:

                                      http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html

                                      Receiving conditions are currently not very well (in-door antenna, high
                                      trees etc.); the 'normal' receiver also doesn't give very good results
                                      (no way to win a 'Denton' contest!) No preamp, antenna is a cross-dipole
                                      without backplane.

                                      There are a few interesting things to note. SDR# always shows a carrier
                                      exactly at the Center frequency (the frequency in the middle of the
                                      showed spectrum; see picture on the web-page). This is not a real
                                      received signal; changing the center frequency doesn't change anything.
                                      Setting receiving frequency at this center frequency really sounds like
                                      a unmodulated carrier. I have to check if this influences a received
                                      signal, but for the moment I keep the frequency to receive from this
                                      center frequency.

                                      The bandwidth of the NFM demodulator seems to be too narrow for APT. As
                                      far as I can measure it's about 25 kHz. Setting the filter bandwidth to
                                      40 kHz doesn't change that; this is a filter after the demodulator.
                                      So for APT WFM with 40 kHz seems to be the best setting. Again, I have
                                      to check this.

                                      Unfortunately, because of my bad receiving conditions, there are just a
                                      very few passes (> 70 degrees) I can take; one in the middle of the
                                      night, the other midday, when I am normally not at home. Or a
                                      picture-less NOAA17 pass... (at least it gives a signal).

                                      Anyway, I have now some results! Now see if I can put a (better)
                                      antenna on the roof...
                                      (Btw, last time I received APT must be some 15 years ago, with my
                                      Amiga-500!)

                                      Rob.



                                      Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-06 14:46:
                                      > I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was swamped by
                                      > noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When the
                                      > noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on the
                                      > discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there was
                                      > not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or two
                                      > second bursts over the entire pass.
                                      >
                                      > So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good
                                      > image,
                                      > however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in the
                                      > preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main reason.
                                      >
                                      > (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the middle
                                      > of
                                      > the display and stay there for ages)
                                      >
                                      > This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it
                                      > will
                                      > pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.
                                      >
                                      > I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames the
                                      > problem down.
                                      >
                                      > Andy
                                      >
                                      > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                      > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and
                                      > the
                                      > > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were
                                      > swamping
                                      > > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that
                                      > this
                                      > > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear, but
                                      > that
                                      > > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into the
                                      > > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and see
                                      > what
                                      > > happens.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals that
                                      > are
                                      > > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device
                                      > would
                                      > > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in the
                                      > > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Andy
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                      > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of
                                      > circuit.
                                      > > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit
                                      > of gain
                                      > > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a
                                      > dedicated
                                      > > > WxSat Rx
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It
                                      > can
                                      > > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles /
                                      > 64Km from
                                      > > > me.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not
                                      > the best
                                      > > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for
                                      > 50Mhz
                                      > > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not
                                      > too much
                                      > > > trouble considering the discone.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for
                                      > 144/432 that
                                      > > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but
                                      > it will
                                      > > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to
                                      > take that
                                      > > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able
                                      > to use
                                      > > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the
                                      > colinear
                                      > > > later in the afternoon.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a
                                      > frw
                                      > > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very
                                      > noisy....
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Andy
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                      > > > rob sat@...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                                      > > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the
                                      > signal
                                      > > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                      > > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the
                                      > reason why
                                      > > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not
                                      > very good in
                                      > > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe
                                      > you can do
                                      > > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to
                                      > mine.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Rob.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Links:
                                      > ------
                                      > [1]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                      > [2]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                      > [3]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                      > [4]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                      > [5]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                      > [6]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                      > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                                      > [8]
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                      > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    • Erik Jakobsen
                                      The carrier you see, is the center. Remove it by checking the I/Q. 73s Erik OZ4KK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jan 10, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The carrier you see, is the center. Remove it by checking the I/Q.

                                        73s
                                        Erik OZ4KK
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and compared
                                        > it with a 'normal' receiver. At last I managed to make some real NOAA
                                        > pictures with the SDR; see:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                                        >
                                        > Receiving conditions are currently not very well (in-door antenna, high
                                        > trees etc.); the 'normal' receiver also doesn't give very good results
                                        > (no way to win a 'Denton' contest!) No preamp, antenna is a cross-dipole
                                        > without backplane.
                                        >
                                        > There are a few interesting things to note. SDR# always shows a carrier
                                        > exactly at the Center frequency (the frequency in the middle of the
                                        > showed spectrum; see picture on the web-page). This is not a real
                                        > received signal; changing the center frequency doesn't change anything.
                                        > Setting receiving frequency at this center frequency really sounds like
                                        > a unmodulated carrier. I have to check if this influences a received
                                        > signal, but for the moment I keep the frequency to receive from this
                                        > center frequency.
                                        >
                                        > The bandwidth of the NFM demodulator seems to be too narrow for APT. As
                                        > far as I can measure it's about 25 kHz. Setting the filter bandwidth to
                                        > 40 kHz doesn't change that; this is a filter after the demodulator.
                                        > So for APT WFM with 40 kHz seems to be the best setting. Again, I have
                                        > to check this.
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately, because of my bad receiving conditions, there are just a
                                        > very few passes (> 70 degrees) I can take; one in the middle of the
                                        > night, the other midday, when I am normally not at home. Or a
                                        > picture-less NOAA17 pass... (at least it gives a signal).
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, I have now some results! Now see if I can put a (better)
                                        > antenna on the roof...
                                        > (Btw, last time I received APT must be some 15 years ago, with my
                                        > Amiga-500!)
                                        >
                                        > Rob.
                                        >
                                        > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-06 14:46:
                                        > > I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was swamped by
                                        > > noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When the
                                        > > noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on the
                                        > > discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there was
                                        > > not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or two
                                        > > second bursts over the entire pass.
                                        > >
                                        > > So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good
                                        > > image,
                                        > > however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in the
                                        > > preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main reason.
                                        > >
                                        > > (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the middle
                                        > > of
                                        > > the display and stay there for ages)
                                        > >
                                        > > This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it
                                        > > will
                                        > > pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.
                                        > >
                                        > > I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames the
                                        > > problem down.
                                        > >
                                        > > Andy
                                        > >
                                        > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                        > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                        > <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and
                                        > > the
                                        > > > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were
                                        > > swamping
                                        > > > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that
                                        > > this
                                        > > > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear, but
                                        > > that
                                        > > > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into the
                                        > > > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and see
                                        > > what
                                        > > > happens.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals that
                                        > > are
                                        > > > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device
                                        > > would
                                        > > > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in the
                                        > > > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Andy
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                        > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                        > <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of
                                        > > circuit.
                                        > > > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit
                                        > > of gain
                                        > > > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a
                                        > > dedicated
                                        > > > > WxSat Rx
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It
                                        > > can
                                        > > > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles /
                                        > > 64Km from
                                        > > > > me.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not
                                        > > the best
                                        > > > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for
                                        > > 50Mhz
                                        > > > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not
                                        > > too much
                                        > > > > trouble considering the discone.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for
                                        > > 144/432 that
                                        > > > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but
                                        > > it will
                                        > > > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to
                                        > > take that
                                        > > > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able
                                        > > to use
                                        > > > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the
                                        > > colinear
                                        > > > > later in the afternoon.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a
                                        > > frw
                                        > > > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very
                                        > > noisy....
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Andy
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                        > > > > rob sat@... <mailto:sat%40alblas.demon.nl>> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                                        > > > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the
                                        > > signal
                                        > > > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                        > > > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the
                                        > > reason why
                                        > > > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not
                                        > > very good in
                                        > > > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe
                                        > > you can do
                                        > > > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to
                                        > > mine.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Rob.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Links:
                                        > > ------
                                        > > [1]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                        > > [2]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                        > > [3]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                        > > [4]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                        > > [5]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                        > > [6]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                        > > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                                        > > [8]
                                        > >
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                        > > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • rob
                                        ... Erik, Thanks, that helps. Actually, this carrier really disturbs weak received signals at the same frequency. I am not sure what this Correct I/Q is
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jan 10, 2013
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                                          Erik Jakobsen schreef op 2013-01-10 22:31:
                                          > The carrier you see, is the center. Remove it by checking the I/Q.
                                          Erik,
                                          Thanks, that helps. Actually, this 'carrier' really disturbs weak
                                          received signals at the same frequency.
                                          I am not sure what this 'Correct I/Q' is doing exactly; maybe the VCO
                                          signals for I and Q are not exactly 90 degrees shifted, if 'Correct' is
                                          'off'?

                                          Rob.

                                          >
                                          > 73s
                                          > Erik OZ4KK
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and
                                          > compared
                                          > > it with a 'normal' receiver. At last I managed to make some real
                                          > NOAA
                                          > > pictures with the SDR; see:
                                          > >
                                          > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1]
                                          > >
                                          > > Receiving conditions are currently not very well (in-door antenna,
                                          > high
                                          > > trees etc.); the 'normal' receiver also doesn't give very good
                                          > results
                                          > > (no way to win a 'Denton' contest!) No preamp, antenna is a
                                          > cross-dipole
                                          > > without backplane.
                                          > >
                                          > > There are a few interesting things to note. SDR# always shows a
                                          > carrier
                                          > > exactly at the Center frequency (the frequency in the middle of the
                                          > > showed spectrum; see picture on the web-page). This is not a real
                                          > > received signal; changing the center frequency doesn't change
                                          > anything.
                                          > > Setting receiving frequency at this center frequency really sounds
                                          > like
                                          > > a unmodulated carrier. I have to check if this influences a
                                          > received
                                          > > signal, but for the moment I keep the frequency to receive from
                                          > this
                                          > > center frequency.
                                          > >
                                          > > The bandwidth of the NFM demodulator seems to be too narrow for
                                          > APT. As
                                          > > far as I can measure it's about 25 kHz. Setting the filter
                                          > bandwidth to
                                          > > 40 kHz doesn't change that; this is a filter after the demodulator.
                                          > > So for APT WFM with 40 kHz seems to be the best setting. Again, I
                                          > have
                                          > > to check this.
                                          > >
                                          > > Unfortunately, because of my bad receiving conditions, there are
                                          > just a
                                          > > very few passes (> 70 degrees) I can take; one in the middle of the
                                          > > night, the other midday, when I am normally not at home. Or a
                                          > > picture-less NOAA17 pass... (at least it gives a signal).
                                          > >
                                          > > Anyway, I have now some results! Now see if I can put a (better)
                                          > > antenna on the roof...
                                          > > (Btw, last time I received APT must be some 15 years ago, with my
                                          > > Amiga-500!)
                                          > >
                                          > > Rob.
                                          > >
                                          > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-06 14:46:
                                          > > > I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was
                                          > swamped by
                                          > > > noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When
                                          > the
                                          > > > noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on
                                          > the
                                          > > > discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there
                                          > was
                                          > > > not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or
                                          > two
                                          > > > second bursts over the entire pass.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good
                                          > > > image,
                                          > > > however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in
                                          > the
                                          > > > preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main
                                          > reason.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the
                                          > middle
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > the display and stay there for ages)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it
                                          > > > will
                                          > > > pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames
                                          > the
                                          > > > problem down.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Andy
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                          > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL
                                          > and
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were
                                          > > > swamping
                                          > > > > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that
                                          > > > this
                                          > > > > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear,
                                          > but
                                          > > > that
                                          > > > > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into
                                          > the
                                          > > > > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and
                                          > see
                                          > > > what
                                          > > > > happens.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals
                                          > that
                                          > > > are
                                          > > > > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device
                                          > > > would
                                          > > > > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in
                                          > the
                                          > > > > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Andy
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                          > > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                          > > > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out
                                          > of
                                          > > > circuit.
                                          > > > > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a
                                          > bit
                                          > > > of gain
                                          > > > > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a
                                          > > > dedicated
                                          > > > > > WxSat Rx
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable.
                                          > It
                                          > > > can
                                          > > > > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles
                                          > /
                                          > > > 64Km from
                                          > > > > > me.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is
                                          > not
                                          > > > the best
                                          > > > > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed
                                          > for
                                          > > > 50Mhz
                                          > > > > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with
                                          > not
                                          > > > too much
                                          > > > > > trouble considering the discone.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for
                                          > > > 144/432 that
                                          > > > > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145,
                                          > but
                                          > > > it will
                                          > > > > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to
                                          > > > take that
                                          > > > > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be
                                          > able
                                          > > > to use
                                          > > > > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the
                                          > > > colinear
                                          > > > > > later in the afternoon.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results,
                                          > Try a
                                          > > > frw
                                          > > > > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be
                                          > very
                                          > > > noisy....
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Andy
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                          > > > > > rob sat@... > wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes
                                          > here.
                                          > > > > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible;
                                          > the
                                          > > > signal
                                          > > > > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                          > > > > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the
                                          > > > reason why
                                          > > > > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not
                                          > > > very good in
                                          > > > > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage).
                                          > Maybe
                                          > > > you can do
                                          > > > > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to
                                          > > > mine.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Rob.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Links:
                                          > > > ------
                                          > > > [1]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                          > [2]
                                          > > > [2]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                          > [3]
                                          > > > [3]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                          > [4]
                                          > > > [4]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                          > [5]
                                          > > > [5]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                          > [6]
                                          > > > [6]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                          > [7]
                                          > > > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html [8]
                                          > > > [8]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                          > [9]
                                          > > > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [10]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Links:
                                          > ------
                                          > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                                          > [2]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                          > [3]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                          > [4]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                          > [5]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                          > [6]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                          > [7]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                          > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                                          > [9]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                          > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > [11]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZTY4aTR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYzMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-?act=reply&messageNum=13630
                                          > [12]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdm9tcWdrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-
                                          > [13]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NGh2N2k1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYzMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                          > [14]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZ2w2bnBvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3ODUzNzU0?o=6
                                          > [15]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnYmFicGJkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3ODUzNzU0
                                          > [16]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmb2s3bzk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-
                                          > [17]
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNjk4ZTZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1Nzg1Mzc1NA--
                                        • Andy Eskelson
                                          As Erik says, click the correct I/Q box That carrier is due to the imbalance in the mixing/digitising process. Most SDR setups need to tune this out. It s not
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jan 10, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            As Erik says, click the correct I/Q box

                                            That carrier is due to the imbalance in the mixing/digitising process.
                                            Most SDR setups need to tune this out. It's not a real carrier as such.

                                            I'm not sure about the effects of the filter settings and the demod. That
                                            might be a good question to ask on the SDR# site.

                                            Andy

                                            On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:31:13 +0100
                                            Erik Jakobsen <aalested@...> wrote:

                                            > The carrier you see, is the center. Remove it by checking the I/Q.
                                            >
                                            > 73s
                                            > Erik OZ4KK
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and compared
                                            > > it with a 'normal' receiver. At last I managed to make some real NOAA
                                            > > pictures with the SDR; see:
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                                            > >
                                            > > Receiving conditions are currently not very well (in-door antenna, high
                                            > > trees etc.); the 'normal' receiver also doesn't give very good results
                                            > > (no way to win a 'Denton' contest!) No preamp, antenna is a cross-dipole
                                            > > without backplane.
                                            > >
                                            > > There are a few interesting things to note. SDR# always shows a carrier
                                            > > exactly at the Center frequency (the frequency in the middle of the
                                            > > showed spectrum; see picture on the web-page). This is not a real
                                            > > received signal; changing the center frequency doesn't change anything.
                                            > > Setting receiving frequency at this center frequency really sounds like
                                            > > a unmodulated carrier. I have to check if this influences a received
                                            > > signal, but for the moment I keep the frequency to receive from this
                                            > > center frequency.
                                            > >
                                            > > The bandwidth of the NFM demodulator seems to be too narrow for APT. As
                                            > > far as I can measure it's about 25 kHz. Setting the filter bandwidth to
                                            > > 40 kHz doesn't change that; this is a filter after the demodulator.
                                            > > So for APT WFM with 40 kHz seems to be the best setting. Again, I have
                                            > > to check this.
                                            > >
                                            > > Unfortunately, because of my bad receiving conditions, there are just a
                                            > > very few passes (> 70 degrees) I can take; one in the middle of the
                                            > > night, the other midday, when I am normally not at home. Or a
                                            > > picture-less NOAA17 pass... (at least it gives a signal).
                                            > >
                                            > > Anyway, I have now some results! Now see if I can put a (better)
                                            > > antenna on the roof...
                                            > > (Btw, last time I received APT must be some 15 years ago, with my
                                            > > Amiga-500!)
                                            > >
                                            > > Rob.
                                            > >
                                            > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-06 14:46:
                                            > > > I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was swamped by
                                            > > > noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When the
                                            > > > noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on the
                                            > > > discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there was
                                            > > > not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or two
                                            > > > second bursts over the entire pass.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good
                                            > > > image,
                                            > > > however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in the
                                            > > > preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main reason.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the middle
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > the display and stay there for ages)
                                            > > >
                                            > > > This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it
                                            > > > will
                                            > > > pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames the
                                            > > > problem down.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Andy
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                            > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                            > > <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL and
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were
                                            > > > swamping
                                            > > > > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that
                                            > > > this
                                            > > > > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear, but
                                            > > > that
                                            > > > > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into the
                                            > > > > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and see
                                            > > > what
                                            > > > > happens.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals that
                                            > > > are
                                            > > > > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device
                                            > > > would
                                            > > > > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in the
                                            > > > > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Andy
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                            > > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                            > > <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out of
                                            > > > circuit.
                                            > > > > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a bit
                                            > > > of gain
                                            > > > > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a
                                            > > > dedicated
                                            > > > > > WxSat Rx
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable. It
                                            > > > can
                                            > > > > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles /
                                            > > > 64Km from
                                            > > > > > me.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is not
                                            > > > the best
                                            > > > > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed for
                                            > > > 50Mhz
                                            > > > > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with not
                                            > > > too much
                                            > > > > > trouble considering the discone.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for
                                            > > > 144/432 that
                                            > > > > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145, but
                                            > > > it will
                                            > > > > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to
                                            > > > take that
                                            > > > > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be able
                                            > > > to use
                                            > > > > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the
                                            > > > colinear
                                            > > > > > later in the afternoon.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results, Try a
                                            > > > frw
                                            > > > > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be very
                                            > > > noisy....
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Andy
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                            > > > > > rob sat@... <mailto:sat%40alblas.demon.nl>> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes here.
                                            > > > > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible; the
                                            > > > signal
                                            > > > > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                            > > > > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the
                                            > > > reason why
                                            > > > > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not
                                            > > > very good in
                                            > > > > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage). Maybe
                                            > > > you can do
                                            > > > > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to
                                            > > > mine.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Rob.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Links:
                                            > > > ------
                                            > > > [1]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                            > > > [2]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                            > > > [3]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                            > > > [4]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                            > > > [5]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                            > > > [6]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                            > > > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                                            > > > [8]
                                            > > >
                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                            > > > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                          • Erik Jakobsen
                                            Glad it helped. I m not quite sure what s going on. 73s Erik OZ4KK ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jan 10, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Glad it helped. I'm not quite sure what's going on.

                                              73s
                                              Erik OZ4KK

                                              > Erik Jakobsen schreef op 2013-01-10 22:31:
                                              > > The carrier you see, is the center. Remove it by checking the I/Q.
                                              > Erik,
                                              > Thanks, that helps. Actually, this 'carrier' really disturbs weak
                                              > received signals at the same frequency.
                                              > I am not sure what this 'Correct I/Q' is doing exactly; maybe the VCO
                                              > signals for I and Q are not exactly 90 degrees shifted, if 'Correct' is
                                              > 'off'?
                                              >
                                              > Rob.
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > 73s
                                              > > Erik OZ4KK
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have done some more trials with APT reception using SDR, and
                                              > > compared
                                              > > > it with a 'normal' receiver. At last I managed to make some real
                                              > > NOAA
                                              > > > pictures with the SDR; see:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html [1]
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Receiving conditions are currently not very well (in-door antenna,
                                              > > high
                                              > > > trees etc.); the 'normal' receiver also doesn't give very good
                                              > > results
                                              > > > (no way to win a 'Denton' contest!) No preamp, antenna is a
                                              > > cross-dipole
                                              > > > without backplane.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > There are a few interesting things to note. SDR# always shows a
                                              > > carrier
                                              > > > exactly at the Center frequency (the frequency in the middle of the
                                              > > > showed spectrum; see picture on the web-page). This is not a real
                                              > > > received signal; changing the center frequency doesn't change
                                              > > anything.
                                              > > > Setting receiving frequency at this center frequency really sounds
                                              > > like
                                              > > > a unmodulated carrier. I have to check if this influences a
                                              > > received
                                              > > > signal, but for the moment I keep the frequency to receive from
                                              > > this
                                              > > > center frequency.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The bandwidth of the NFM demodulator seems to be too narrow for
                                              > > APT. As
                                              > > > far as I can measure it's about 25 kHz. Setting the filter
                                              > > bandwidth to
                                              > > > 40 kHz doesn't change that; this is a filter after the demodulator.
                                              > > > So for APT WFM with 40 kHz seems to be the best setting. Again, I
                                              > > have
                                              > > > to check this.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Unfortunately, because of my bad receiving conditions, there are
                                              > > just a
                                              > > > very few passes (> 70 degrees) I can take; one in the middle of the
                                              > > > night, the other midday, when I am normally not at home. Or a
                                              > > > picture-less NOAA17 pass... (at least it gives a signal).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Anyway, I have now some results! Now see if I can put a (better)
                                              > > > antenna on the roof...
                                              > > > (Btw, last time I received APT must be some 15 years ago, with my
                                              > > > Amiga-500!)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Rob.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Andy Eskelson schreef op 2013-01-06 14:46:
                                              > > > > I just tried to take the 1254 NOAA19 pass here, and it was
                                              > > swamped by
                                              > > > > noise. Pagers, RF remote systems and god knows what else. When
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > noise dropped for a few seconds, the sat signal was reasonable on
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > discone. I have no doubt that it would have decoded OK, but there
                                              > > was
                                              > > > > not enough of it. I prob got 20 seconds of clean tones in one or
                                              > > two
                                              > > > > second bursts over the entire pass.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > So it does look as if the preamp is the main reason I got a good
                                              > > > > image,
                                              > > > > however I thing that it is more down to the band pass filter in
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > preamp that is knocking out some of the crud that is the main
                                              > > reason.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > (During reception you could see the noise floor jump up to the
                                              > > middle
                                              > > > > of
                                              > > > > the display and stay there for ages)
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > This is hardly surprising as the front end is totally open and it
                                              > > > > will
                                              > > > > pick up anything...it will also depend on the local noise levels.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I will make a simple band pass filter later and see if that tames
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > problem down.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Andy
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 03:19:11 +0000
                                              > > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@... <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>
                                              > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > At 0-120 I tried to get the N19 signal on 137.1 using thr RTL
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > > discone. The signal was reasonably strong, but the pagers were
                                              > > > > swamping
                                              > > > > > the signal, I got some decode, but no detail. Bear in mind that
                                              > > > > this
                                              > > > > > would only be the IR channel. I did briefly try the co-linear,
                                              > > but
                                              > > > > that
                                              > > > > > seemed to suffer even more swamping and the signal dropped into
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > > noise. I will try on a daytime pass tomorrow all being well and
                                              > > see
                                              > > > > what
                                              > > > > > happens.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I'm starting to wonder if it's nearby high power Tx signals
                                              > > that
                                              > > > > are
                                              > > > > > causing most problems. The very wide band nature of the device
                                              > > > > would
                                              > > > > > make it susceptible to this, and the simple band pass filter in
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > > preamp I first used may make a huge difference.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Andy
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:07:39 +0000
                                              > > > > > Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@...
                                              > <mailto:andyyahoo%40g0poy.co.uk>
                                              > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > The preamp is at the top of the mast, so I can't take it out
                                              > > of
                                              > > > > circuit.
                                              > > > > > > The gain is quite low only about 7-8 db It's there to give a
                                              > > bit
                                              > > > > of gain
                                              > > > > > > for the R9000 scanner which is slightly down compared to a
                                              > > > > dedicated
                                              > > > > > > WxSat Rx
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Using the RTL into a discone, the performance is remarkable.
                                              > > It
                                              > > > > can
                                              > > > > > > receive (just) the 50Mhz beacon GB3BAA which is about 40miles
                                              > > /
                                              > > > > 64Km from
                                              > > > > > > me.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > This is well outside of the RTL and prob even the discone is
                                              > > not
                                              > > > > the best
                                              > > > > > > at that freq :-) it's also a good deal lower on the mast.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Switching to the main HF vertical the CP6, which is designed
                                              > > for
                                              > > > > 50Mhz
                                              > > > > > > and the signal comes up quite well.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > On VHF I can usually hear the stations I work regularly with
                                              > > not
                                              > > > > too much
                                              > > > > > > trouble considering the discone.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I will take a pass or two using the W300 co-linear I use for
                                              > > > > 144/432 that
                                              > > > > > > should be a good comparison that has a gain of 6.9db at 145,
                                              > > but
                                              > > > > it will
                                              > > > > > > loose a bit as it's obviously not circ. polarised.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > There is a pass due at about 1:20am I will try to remember to
                                              > > > > take that
                                              > > > > > > as I will be on air for a regular sked. but I will only be
                                              > > able
                                              > > > > to use
                                              > > > > > > the discone, but that will be another good test. I'll use the
                                              > > > > colinear
                                              > > > > > > later in the afternoon.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I'm quite surprise that you are getting such poor results,
                                              > > Try a
                                              > > > > frw
                                              > > > > > > ferrites on the USB lead at each end. Sometimes USB can be
                                              > > very
                                              > > > > noisy....
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Andy
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 15:16:29 +0100
                                              > > > > > > rob sat@... <mailto:sat%40alblas.demon.nl> > wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > I have now tried NOAA18 and 19, 47 and 62 degrees passes
                                              > > here.
                                              > > > > > > > Used NFM, BW=40kHz, played with gain. Results are terrible;
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > signal
                                              > > > > > > > is barely coming out of the noise.
                                              > > > > > > > I checked and re-checked antenna connections.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Andy, you said you are using a pre-amp. That could be the
                                              > > > > reason why
                                              > > > > > > > you get fairly good results. These dongles are probably not
                                              > > > > very good in
                                              > > > > > > > weak input signals (too much noise at the input stage).
                                              > > Maybe
                                              > > > > you can do
                                              > > > > > > > a trial without pre-amp? I'll see if I can add a preamp to
                                              > > > > mine.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Rob.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Links:
                                              > > > > ------
                                              > > > > [1]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                              > > [2]
                                              > > > > [2]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                              > > [3]
                                              > > > > [3]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                              > > [4]
                                              > > > > [4]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                              > > [5]
                                              > > > > [5]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                              > > [6]
                                              > > > > [6]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                              > > [7]
                                              > > > > [7] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html [8]
                                              > > > > [8]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                              > > [9]
                                              > > > > [9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [10]
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Links:
                                              > > ------
                                              > > [1] http://www.alblas.demon.nl/wsat/sdr/sdr_noaa.html
                                              > > [2]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626
                                              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2MyM250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=13626>
                                              > > [3]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdjJxaWZrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                              > > [4]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b3AwY3QyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYyNgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODgEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                              > > [5]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHM5OGQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4?o=6
                                              > > [6]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNjl1NGpiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3NDc5OTg4
                                              > > [7]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbW1ncDNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc0Nzk5ODg-
                                              > > [8] http://www.geo-web.org.uk/contacts.html
                                              > > [9]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcXEybWE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1NzQ3OTk4OA--
                                              > > [10] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > [11]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZTY4aTR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYzMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-?act=reply&messageNum=13630
                                              > > [12]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdm9tcWdrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-
                                              > > [13]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/message/13601;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NGh2N2k1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRtc2dJZAMxMzYzMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQEdHBjSWQDMTM2MDE-
                                              > > [14]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZ2w2bnBvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU3ODUzNzU0?o=6
                                              > > [15]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnYmFicGJkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMzU3ODUzNzU0
                                              > > [16]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GEO-Subscribers;_ylc=X3oDMTJmb2s3bzk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc4NTM3NTQ-
                                              > > [17]
                                              > >
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNjk4ZTZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjYyMjAzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzYwMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1Nzg1Mzc1NA--
                                              >
                                              >



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