Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Vacation in England (off topic)

Expand Messages
  • twoshed2000
    Well there has to be somebody then who disagrees. It is very fashionable these days to complain about governments,the EU particularly,how better things were in
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Well there has to be somebody then who disagrees.
      It is very fashionable these days to complain about governments,the EU
      particularly,how better things were in earlier days and naturally how
      much better things are for example in the US.
      I have been this year for some concerts in the USA and the procedures
      at immigration reminded me of the old days when passing the iron curtain.
      Despite valid papers I was held for 1 hour(after qeueing up for
      another)and then my fate was decided by some ill mannered and arrogant
      customs officer(I was allowed in.)
      Bureaucracy: the paperwork for performing amounted to months of
      preparation.The US embassy has a 3 months waiting list due to
      understaffing and charges 50 Euro for a visa,no guaranteed entry even
      with that.
      Prices: to have a decent meal in Milwaukee(and not in one of these
      endless junk food places) was usually very expensive,cheaper than
      London yes,but Milwaukee is not London,believe me.
      The interfering government,EU or not:
      I live half the year in Dorset(South UK),this area was (during our GA
      times) as poor as it gets.I have several books who demonstrate the
      appaling poverty in rural "good old England"('Thomas Hardy' country)
      in the late 19th century till the fifties.
      Now this is a booming,well off place,with everybody taking things for
      granted and-naturally- moaning.(Everybody is healthinsured now,unlike
      in the US).
      The EU is a great idea and concept in a war-ridden place like Europe
      was in the past and virtually guarantees peace amongst its members.
      Not a bad thing if you look back a bit into history.
      The excess in bureaucracy is a lamentable fact,but may I remind that
      countries like Spain,Portugal,Greece (and soon Eastern Europe)
      blossomed under the EU trade and subsidies regulations.
      Prices in London are high,but I was in cities where I paid more,Tokyo
      for example,and life there is much more regulated than in the UK.
      When coming to the UK one should also sample the glorious
      countryside,its villages(I recommend the counties of East Sussex and
      Yorkshire) and the superb coastline,away from the moloch London.
      And above all (I am allowed to say this,as I am German):
      the English people with their wicked sense of humour are the greatest
      asset this country has,and I have not regretted ever living there
      though recently we got fined 30 pounds for overstaying 1 minute at a
      carpark in Christchurch.
      That made my blood boil,so I went to this 280 year old pub nearby,lit
      a cigar,drunk a pint of warm beer, chilled out and decided :
      I am NOT leaving this country,not yet.
      twoshed
      PS Sorry John about offtopics like that,it won't happen again.






      --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...> wrote:
      >
      > Forgive me for making some observations about modern England during
      > the last few days of my first visit here since the late 1990s --
      > mostly off-topic.
      > 1) Prices, even in pounds, disregarding the exchange rate with the
      > dollar, are out of sight. £5 (nearly $9) for fish and chips, for
      > example. Used to be about 3 shillings (15 p) about 1970 or so.
      > That's more than inflation, but it could be because cod fish are
      > almost extinct because of overfishing. [You can relate this
      > indirectly to GAD by considering prices when they are mentioned in
      > Agatha Christie, etc. -- just translate one shilling into five new
      > pence, then multiply by 10 or way more to account for inflation.]
      > 2) The government is one of the worst 'democratic' systems in the
      > Western World. They tax and regulate to extremes, and are really
      > money-grubbing, imposing huge fines of £100 or £200 for minor
      > quality of life infringements like littering or parking even a
      > minute longer than you paid for. A draconian enforcement of speed
      > limits (2 points if less than 5 miles over, 3 if more, with an
      > excess over 10 points within a five-year period resulting in
      > revocation of your drivers license) -- all enforced by ubiquitous
      > CCTV cameras hidden in bushes and on telephone poles, etc. At least
      > they hanged only murderers in GAD times, as opposed to having the
      > rest of the population nibbled to death by ducks.
      > 3) Political correctness, combined with bureaucracy, that is really
      > insulting to one's self-esteem and infringes on what used to be
      > considered basic human rights. You can call somebody a 'wog'
      > (freedom of speech) but it is illegal to make an insult about
      > somebody's religion. And another example, they just passed a law
      > requiring all midwives and obstetricians to ask (and fill out an
      > official form ticking off boxes) every pregnant woman if her husband
      > has ever hit her, or even sworn at her. The purpose of this is to
      > prevent the sort of abuse that happens to some 2% of pregnant women.
      > There is now a proposal to require everyone to have a photo identity
      > card that includes your DNA data and retinal patterns, to be used
      > and recorded on a national data base whenever you deal with the
      > government or do a transaction with a bank! (This is to
      > prevent 'identity theft' -- ha, ha.) George Orwell, thou shouldst be
      > living in this hour!
      >
      > Excuse me for spouting off about this sort of thing, but it has been
      > very upsetting for an old-time Anglophile who remembers the old
      > days. Thing is, everybody I meet who lives here agrees totally with
      > me but feels powerless to do anything about it (except complain).
      > The combination of cynicism and resignation doesn't bode well for
      > the old country.
    • Wyatt James
      The new EU Constitution, which Tony Blair just signed, is some 300 pages of fine print. The British will be having a referendum in 2006 as to whether to
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        The new EU Constitution, which Tony Blair just signed, is some 300
        pages of fine print. The British will be having a referendum in 2006
        as to whether to approve it or not. One hopes they will vote NO.

        And yes, my friends here blame a lot of this nibble-to-death-by-
        ducks regulation on EU rules and the bureaucrats in Belgium and
        Alsace, but there is a lot of niggling in the British Parliament and
        in local councils too, especially regarding so-called quality-of-
        life 'crimes'. It is vulgar and anti-social to drop chewing gum on
        the sidewalk, but it doesn't rate a £100 fine or whatever.

        And, yes, New York City under Bloomberg is also a Nannie state.
        You'd think the city council representative (whose perks and
        pensions are paid for by us taxpayers) could find something
        productive to do rather than banning smoking in bars, not even
        allowing a ventilated smoking room for those who want to kill
        themselves.

        --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "pugmire1" <pugmire1@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Xavier took the words out of my mouth. The UK has its faults, but
        > most of what Wyatt describes is inflicted by the EU hegemony.
        > Someone once famously observed that the European Union regulations
        > on the size of duck eggs contain ten times as many words as the US
        > Constitution. What more do you need to know?
        >
        > John P.
        > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Xavier Lechard"
        > <xavierlechard@f...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > 2) The government is one of the worst 'democratic' systems in
        > the
        > > > Western World. They tax and regulate to extremes, and are
        really
        > > > money-grubbing, imposing huge fines of £100 or £200 for minor
        > > > quality of life infringements like littering or parking even a
        > > > minute longer than you paid for. A draconian enforcement of
        > speed
        > > > limits (2 points if less than 5 miles over, 3 if more, with an
        > > > excess over 10 points within a five-year period resulting in
        > > > revocation of your drivers license) -- all enforced by
        > ubiquitous
        > > > CCTV cameras hidden in bushes and on telephone poles, etc. At
        > least
        > > > they hanged only murderers in GAD times, as opposed to having
        > the
        > > > rest of the population nibbled to death by ducks.
        > > > 3) Political correctness, combined with bureaucracy, that is
        > really
        > > > insulting to one's self-esteem and infringes on what used to
        be
        > > > considered basic human rights. You can call somebody a 'wog'
        > > > (freedom of speech) but it is illegal to make an insult about
        > > > somebody's religion. And another example, they just passed a
        law
        > > > requiring all midwives and obstetricians to ask (and fill out
        an
        > > > official form ticking off boxes) every pregnant woman if her
        > > husband
        > > > has ever hit her, or even sworn at her. The purpose of this is
        > to
        > > > prevent the sort of abuse that happens to some 2% of pregnant
        > > women.
        > > > There is now a proposal to require everyone to have a photo
        > > identity
        > > > card that includes your DNA data and retinal patterns, to be
        > used
        > > > and recorded on a national data base whenever you deal with
        the
        > > > government or do a transaction with a bank! (This is to
        > > > prevent 'identity theft' -- ha, ha.) George Orwell, thou
        > shouldst
        > > be
        > > > living in this hour!
        > >
        > >
        > > As a matter of fact, it isn't an English thing -- it's European.
        > Our
        > > beloved Union has a taste for regulation of all areas of life,
        and
        > > England is not exception to the rule, though by no means the
        worst
        > > specimen. DNA-Identity Cards are scheduled here as well, and
        woman-
        > > beating is the prime issue (Spain even voted a special law for
        > that).
        > > As to taxes... I guess you didn't visit France recently...
        > >
        > > > Excuse me for spouting off about this sort of thing, but it
        has
        > > been
        > > > very upsetting for an old-time Anglophile who remembers the
        old
        > > > days. Thing is, everybody I meet who lives here agrees totally
        > with
        > > > me but feels powerless to do anything about it (except
        > complain).
        > > > The combination of cynicism and resignation doesn't bode well
        > for
        > > > the old country.
        > >
        > > Oh, I can see how they feel, as I feel the same about my own
        > country,
        > > but the only solution is leaving, and I don't see any decent
        place
        > to
        > > fly to in Europe, except maybe Switzerland.
        > >
        > > Friendly,
        > > Xavier
      • Wyatt James
        I wouldn t hold up the US as a shining example. These nit-picking governments, high taxes and prices, bureaucracy, etc. etc. are common to Western
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          I wouldn't hold up the US as a shining example. These nit-picking
          governments, high taxes and prices, bureaucracy, etc. etc. are
          common to Western Civilization.

          (Sorry, Jon, but this is my last message on this off topic.)

          --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "twoshed2000" <twoshed2000@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Well there has to be somebody then who disagrees.
          > It is very fashionable these days to complain about
          governments,the EU
          > particularly,how better things were in earlier days and naturally
          how
          > much better things are for example in the US.
        • Xavier Lechard
          ... 2006 ... and ... I didn t only refer to that bloody Union but to a general state of mind when I said the English syndrom was actually an European one. The
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
            wrote:
            >
            > The new EU Constitution, which Tony Blair just signed, is some 300
            > pages of fine print. The British will be having a referendum in
            2006
            > as to whether to approve it or not. One hopes they will vote NO.
            >
            > And yes, my friends here blame a lot of this nibble-to-death-by-
            > ducks regulation on EU rules and the bureaucrats in Belgium and
            > Alsace, but there is a lot of niggling in the British Parliament
            and
            > in local councils too, especially regarding so-called quality-of-
            > life 'crimes'. It is vulgar and anti-social to drop chewing gum on
            > the sidewalk, but it doesn't rate a £100 fine or whatever.

            I didn't only refer to that bloody Union but to a general state of
            mind when I said the English syndrom was actually an European one.
            The idea that government must be kind of a "big father" taking care
            of citizens (whether they consent or not) and interfering with almost
            all domains of private and public life, is well-grounded on this
            continent, and it's hence no surprise England is contaminated. Even
            though United Kingdom is by no means the worst nor the
            most "advanced".

            > And, yes, New York City under Bloomberg is also a Nannie state.
            > You'd think the city council representative (whose perks and
            > pensions are paid for by us taxpayers) could find something
            > productive to do rather than banning smoking in bars, not even
            > allowing a ventilated smoking room for those who want to kill
            > themselves.

            I guess that's why so many people regard New York as one of America's
            most "European" cities...
            I apologize for that off-topic posting, and I ask anyone wanting to
            continue this discussion to do it privately, so that this group can
            go back to its original vocation.

            Friendly,
            Xavier
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.