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Just Curious.....

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  • Wyatt James
    This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still smoke? (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I m now 60 -- and having quit many times
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 31, 2004
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      This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still smoke?
      (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
      having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for more
      than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
      mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
      detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having to
      sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors' own
      problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
      as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
      everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
      eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
      what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England knew
      it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
      had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making it
      harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public smoking
      is considered anti-social.

      [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
      Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
      can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them any
      more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there any
      more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
      there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
      incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]
    • mike5568
      Yep, I smoke.--- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, Wyatt James ... smoke? ... more ... to ... own ... knew ... it ... smoking ... any ... any
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 31, 2004
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        Yep, I smoke.--- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James"
        <grobius@s...> wrote:
        > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
        smoke?
        > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
        > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for
        more
        > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
        > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
        > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having
        to
        > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors'
        own
        > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
        > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
        > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
        > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
        > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England
        knew
        > it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
        > had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making
        it
        > harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public
        smoking
        > is considered anti-social.
        >
        > [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
        > Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
        > can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them
        any
        > more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there
        any
        > more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
        > there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
        > incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]
      • Gillian Hill
        From: Wyatt James ... Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Gillian Hill
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 31, 2004
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          From: "Wyatt James" <grobius@...>
          > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still smoke?

          Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

          Gillian Hill
        • Jon Jermey
          I still get a slight shock in GAD fiction when the athletic young hero, having pursued the villain across several ploughed fields and finally run him to earth,
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1, 2004
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            I still get a slight shock in GAD fiction when the athletic young hero,
            having pursued the villain across several ploughed fields and finally
            run him to earth, celebrates by lighting up a fag...

            Jon.

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Wyatt James [mailto:grobius@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2004 7:53 AM
            > To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [GAdetection] Just Curious.....
            >
            >
            > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still smoke?
            > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
            > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for more
            > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
            > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
            > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having to
            > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors' own
            > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
            > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
            > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
            > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
            > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes).
          • b_ergang
            ... Yes, dammit, I do, and for about the same length of time you have, Wyatt (I m 57 and started at 12), except for a seven-year stretch when I quit, after
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1, 2004
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              --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
              wrote:
              >This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
              >smoke? (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 --
              >and having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up
              >for more than a few months at a stretch.)

              Yes, dammit, I do, and for about the same length of time you have,
              Wyatt (I'm 57 and started at 12), except for a seven-year stretch
              when I quit, after which I foolishly started again. I keep telling
              myself I'm going to quit again, too.

              >You will have noted that modern mysteries spend a lot of time going
              >over the agonies of their detectives (police or other) in either
              >giving up smoking or having to sneak a smoke in the parking lot.
              >Probably shades of the authors' own problem, although it is
              >improper to project an author's private life as an aspect of
              >his/her book or detective.

              Here I respectfully disagree. If the problems are things some or all
              of the readership can relate to, if they help flesh out the
              character, and if they don't become so all-consuming as to override
              the more important aspects of the story, why not?

              Best <cough>,
              Barry
            • b_ergang
              ... Not to mention the hero who smokes like an oil refinery throughout the story but who can nevertheless hoof it in pursuit of a fleet- footed villain,
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 1, 2004
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                --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Jermey" <jonjermey@o...>
                wrote:
                >I still get a slight shock in GAD fiction when the athletic young
                >hero, having pursued the villain across several ploughed fields and
                >finally run him to earth, celebrates by lighting up a fag...

                Not to mention the hero who smokes like an oil refinery throughout
                the story but who can nevertheless hoof it in pursuit of a fleet-
                footed villain, whether across fields or through city streets,
                without panting, let alone gasping for breath.
              • Tony Medawar
                It s not that hard to smoke in NYC. Try ... Circa Tabac 32 Watts St. (Thompson St. and Sixth Ave.) 212-941-1781 Subway: A, C, E to Canal St.; 1, 9 to Canal
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 2, 2004
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                  It's not that hard to smoke in NYC. Try ...

                  Circa Tabac
                  32 Watts St. (Thompson St. and Sixth Ave.)
                  212-941-1781
                  Subway: A, C, E to Canal St.; 1, 9 to Canal St.
                  Mustang
                  1632 2nd Ave. (@ 85th St.)
                  212-744-9194
                  Subway: 4, 5, 6 to 86th Street

                  Nat Sherman

                  500 5th Ave at 42nd St.
                  (800) 692-4427
                  Subway: B, D, F, Q to 42nd St.; 7 to Fifth Ave.

                  Club Macanudo
                  26 E. 63rd St. (Park & Madison Aves.)
                  212-752-8200
                  Subway: F, 4, 5, 6, N, R, W to 59th St./Lexington

                  Mezzo Mezzo
                  31-29 Ditmars Blvs at 33rd St.
                  Astoria, NY
                  718-278-0444
                  Subway: N, W to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd.

                  Florio's Grill & Cigar Bar
                  192 Grand St. (Mott & Mulberry Sts.)

                  212-226-7610
                  Subway: B, D, Q at Grand St.

                  The Piano Bar @ Jilly's (Coopers Cars & Cigars)
                  41 W. 58th St. (5th & 6th Aves.)
                  212-588-8888

                  Lexington Bar and Books
                  1020 Lexington Ave. (72nd & 73rd Sts.)
                  212-717-3902
                  Subway: 6 to 68th or 77nd Street

                  Hudson Bar and Books
                  636 Hudson Street
                  212-229-2642
                  Subway: A, C, E to 14th St.; L to Eighth Ave.

                  Bohemian Hall

                  29-19 24th Ave, Astoria, NY
                  (718) 721-4226
                  Subway: N to Astoria Blvd.

                  DBA

                  41 First Ave. (2nd and 3rd)

                  212-475-5097
                  F to Second Ave.

                  Cherry (@ The W Tuscany Hotel)
                  120 E. 39th St. (Lex & Park Aves.)
                  212-519-8508
                  Subway: S, 4, 5, 6, 7 to 42nd St.-Grand Central

                  Whiskey Blue (@ The W New York Hotel)
                  541 Lexington Ave. (49th & 50th)

                  212-407-2947
                  Subway: E, F, 6 to 51st St.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: mike5568
                  To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:08 AM
                  Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Just Curious.....


                  Yep, I smoke.--- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James"
                  <grobius@s...> wrote:
                  > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
                  smoke?
                  > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
                  > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for
                  more
                  > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
                  > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
                  > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having
                  to
                  > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors'
                  own
                  > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
                  > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
                  > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
                  > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
                  > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England
                  knew
                  > it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
                  > had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making
                  it
                  > harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public
                  smoking
                  > is considered anti-social.
                  >
                  > [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
                  > Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
                  > can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them
                  any
                  > more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there
                  any
                  > more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
                  > there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
                  > incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • alanjbishop1
                  ... smoke? ... more ... to ... own ... knew ... it ... smoking ... any ... any ... I gave up smoking about four years ago, after having a thrombosis (which
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 2, 2004
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                    --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
                    wrote:
                    > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
                    smoke?
                    > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
                    > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for
                    more
                    > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
                    > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
                    > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having
                    to
                    > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors'
                    own
                    > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
                    > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
                    > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
                    > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
                    > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England
                    knew
                    > it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
                    > had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making
                    it
                    > harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public
                    smoking
                    > is considered anti-social.
                    >
                    > [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
                    > Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
                    > can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them
                    any
                    > more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there
                    any
                    > more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
                    > there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
                    > incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]

                    I gave up smoking about four years ago, after having a thrombosis
                    (which may/may not have been connected to smoking) but my wife still
                    smokes. While I don't nag her to give up - it would make me
                    unbearable - it does concern me. However, since no one is forced to
                    become an addict of any drug, it is up to the individual to choose to
                    quit, but being given as much help as possible in the attempt. I don't
                    subscribe to the fashionable idea that addicts are victims!
                    In watching old films during these "enlightened times" the amount
                    people smoked is noticable! Remember that the Victorians recommended
                    smoking to relieve asthma and other lung disorders! Science is
                    constantly improving methodology and techniques of analysis and so
                    something we might consider safe one day might become a danger on
                    another. It doesn't mean it was safe a long time ago.

                    While non-smoking in public is a contentious issue, with "poor"
                    smokers huddled together outside offices in the snow and other trite
                    images, it boils down to differing social styles. It was recently
                    reported that the smoking ban in NY hadn't affected trade in bars and
                    so other governments have used these reports in their considerations.
                    I don't know about the Irish but here in the UK smoking and pubs are
                    always linked - not always pleasantly. However the attitude of "Brits"
                    to social or pub drinking is entirely different to the American
                    attitude (the Europeans are constantly, and rightly, horrified at our
                    habits) so it's erroneous to compare possible trade effects between US
                    and UK bars.

                    A change in social smoking is coming, is already noticable, but the
                    change must be smooth and appear to be publically demanded and not
                    governmentally enforced or the UK public will automatically kick
                    against it. The seatbelt law had very vocal opponents but now no one
                    in their right mind would question it now. Smoking (and its hazards)
                    will go the same way.
                  • Tony Medawar
                    And there s a school of thought that suggests the bans on smoking gradually being introduced throughout Western societies will increase the incidence of cancer
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 3, 2004
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                      And there's a school of thought that suggests the bans on smoking gradually being introduced throughout Western societies will increase the incidence of cancer globally: on the one hand the hardy few who carry on in the West will increasingly be driven to smoke in their own homes, which is bad for any children they might be still able to produce; and the tobacco companies will abandon research into non-carcinogenic tobacco and focus on selling "the real McCoy" to "third world" markets (which of course is already their priority and why there are now Formula One grands prix in China and Bahrain and, from two years time, Russia).
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: alanjbishop1
                      To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 8:16 AM
                      Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Just Curious.....


                      --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
                      wrote:
                      > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
                      smoke?
                      > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
                      > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for
                      more
                      > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
                      > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
                      > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having
                      to
                      > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors'
                      own
                      > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
                      > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
                      > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
                      > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
                      > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England
                      knew
                      > it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
                      > had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making
                      it
                      > harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public
                      smoking
                      > is considered anti-social.
                      >
                      > [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
                      > Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
                      > can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them
                      any
                      > more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there
                      any
                      > more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
                      > there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
                      > incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]

                      I gave up smoking about four years ago, after having a thrombosis
                      (which may/may not have been connected to smoking) but my wife still
                      smokes. While I don't nag her to give up - it would make me
                      unbearable - it does concern me. However, since no one is forced to
                      become an addict of any drug, it is up to the individual to choose to
                      quit, but being given as much help as possible in the attempt. I don't
                      subscribe to the fashionable idea that addicts are victims!
                      In watching old films during these "enlightened times" the amount
                      people smoked is noticable! Remember that the Victorians recommended
                      smoking to relieve asthma and other lung disorders! Science is
                      constantly improving methodology and techniques of analysis and so
                      something we might consider safe one day might become a danger on
                      another. It doesn't mean it was safe a long time ago.

                      While non-smoking in public is a contentious issue, with "poor"
                      smokers huddled together outside offices in the snow and other trite
                      images, it boils down to differing social styles. It was recently
                      reported that the smoking ban in NY hadn't affected trade in bars and
                      so other governments have used these reports in their considerations.
                      I don't know about the Irish but here in the UK smoking and pubs are
                      always linked - not always pleasantly. However the attitude of "Brits"
                      to social or pub drinking is entirely different to the American
                      attitude (the Europeans are constantly, and rightly, horrified at our
                      habits) so it's erroneous to compare possible trade effects between US
                      and UK bars.

                      A change in social smoking is coming, is already noticable, but the
                      change must be smooth and appear to be publically demanded and not
                      governmentally enforced or the UK public will automatically kick
                      against it. The seatbelt law had very vocal opponents but now no one
                      in their right mind would question it now. Smoking (and its hazards)
                      will go the same way.



                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GAdetection/

                      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      GAdetection-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Wyatt James
                      To continue the non-thread about smoking (and let s drop it after this, except maybe refer to it as accepted practice in GAD times!)... There are so many
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 3, 2004
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                        To continue the non-thread about smoking (and let's drop it after
                        this, except maybe refer to it as accepted practice in GAD times!)...

                        There are so many things screwed up in today's world, basically
                        because of over-population and the increasing demand for I guess you'd
                        call them middle-class amenities, such as cars, one-family suburban
                        houses, shopping malls, health insurance, and tax-deferred pension plans.

                        Smoking is an easy target for politicians and is a scapegoat issue
                        really. Air pollution in the workplace or bar caused by second-hand
                        tobacco smoke? Come on! Why is so little being done to reduce the
                        emissions caused by cars and trucks and power plants? Those same
                        politicians who want to victimize smokers are the ones that deny that
                        there is a Greenhouse effect, because my goodness, to close the car
                        factory would mean loss of jobs in the constituency. Is it Japan where
                        they have coin-in-the-slot oxygen mask machines on the street? My
                        brother went to Peking not long ago and said the air pollution there
                        was unbelievably bad and is supposedly getting worse because the
                        Chinese are now into cars for everybody and they have virtually no
                        regulations about what their power plants put out into the atmosphere.

                        England (London, anyway) banned coal fires, basically all fireplaces,
                        in houses in the late 1950s, and yes it really did partially mitigate
                        the famous London fogs. Most American cities, even suburbs, now ban
                        the burning of tree leaves in autumn. Well, fine, but I really miss
                        that wonderful smell of a leaf fire, find London a duller place
                        without its fogs (bad as they were for bronchitis sufferers). But
                        measures like these do not really address the issue of atmospheric
                        pollution on a global basis.

                        PS. The NY smoking ban has resulted in a loss of custom, up to a third
                        of previous revenues, no matter what you read (the pols include the
                        expansion of fast food restaurants, where you could never even smoke
                        before the pub ban, in their statistics -- however, FF places are the
                        new target for the health Nazis). Smoking is harmful, as are a lot of
                        other things, but I choose to smoke anyway and that's my business,
                        nobody else's. I will accommodate for non-smokers by not lighting up
                        in their presence, but don't think it's fair to be shut out of places
                        where smoking would not be objectionable to the people that go there.
                        [In case you are in any doubt, I'm a Libertarian and believe heroin
                        addicts should be allowed to indulge as long as they don't rob people
                        to pay for their habit.]

                        --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Medawar" <tonymedawar@b...>
                        wrote:
                        > And there's a school of thought that suggests the bans on smoking
                        gradually being introduced throughout Western societies will increase
                        the incidence of cancer globally: on the one hand the hardy few who
                        carry on in the West will increasingly be driven to smoke in their own
                        homes, which is bad for any children they might be still able to
                        produce; and the tobacco companies will abandon research into
                        non-carcinogenic tobacco and focus on selling "the real McCoy" to
                        "third world" markets (which of course is already their priority and
                        why there are now Formula One grands prix in China and Bahrain and,
                        from two years time, Russia).
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: alanjbishop1
                        > To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 8:16 AM
                        > Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Just Curious.....
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Wyatt James" <grobius@s...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > This is off-topic in a way, but do any of you GAD members still
                        > smoke?
                        > > (I still do, having started at the age of 14 -- I'm now 60 -- and
                        > > having quit many times but never keeping up the abstinence up for
                        > more
                        > > than a few months at a stretch.) You will have noted that modern
                        > > mysteries spend a lot of time going over the agonies of their
                        > > detectives (police or other) in either giving up smoking or having
                        > to
                        > > sneak a smoke in the parking lot. Probably shades of the authors'
                        > own
                        > > problem, although it is improper to project an author's private life
                        > > as an aspect of his/her book or detective. In GAD novels, nearly
                        > > everybody smoked (or if they didn't, it was a clue to their being
                        > > eccentric enough to be a suspect -- plus, there was often a clue in
                        > > what they DID smoke, cf Sherlock Holmes). King James I of England
                        > knew
                        > > it was an abomination that long ago, possibly one of the reasons he
                        > > had Raleigh beheaded, but really, all these smoking bans are making
                        > it
                        > > harder and harder to have any sort of social life when public
                        > smoking
                        > > is considered anti-social.
                        > >
                        > > [They just started enforcing an NYC Draconian smoking measure in
                        > > Ireland, and I can't imagine not being able to smoke in a pub. We
                        > > can't smoke in bars here in NY anymore, so I just don't go to them
                        > any
                        > > more. If they do that in Britain, I just won't be able to go there
                        > any
                        > > more and expect to have a good time, and I have a long-delayed trip
                        > > there to check out the latest at Jacubowski's book store, and
                        > > incidentally visit family I haven't visited in a long while.]
                        >
                        > I gave up smoking about four years ago, after having a thrombosis
                        > (which may/may not have been connected to smoking) but my wife still
                        > smokes. While I don't nag her to give up - it would make me
                        > unbearable - it does concern me. However, since no one is forced to
                        > become an addict of any drug, it is up to the individual to choose to
                        > quit, but being given as much help as possible in the attempt. I don't
                        > subscribe to the fashionable idea that addicts are victims!
                        > In watching old films during these "enlightened times" the amount
                        > people smoked is noticable! Remember that the Victorians recommended
                        > smoking to relieve asthma and other lung disorders! Science is
                        > constantly improving methodology and techniques of analysis and so
                        > something we might consider safe one day might become a danger on
                        > another. It doesn't mean it was safe a long time ago.
                        >
                        > While non-smoking in public is a contentious issue, with "poor"
                        > smokers huddled together outside offices in the snow and other trite
                        > images, it boils down to differing social styles. It was recently
                        > reported that the smoking ban in NY hadn't affected trade in bars and
                        > so other governments have used these reports in their considerations.
                        > I don't know about the Irish but here in the UK smoking and pubs are
                        > always linked - not always pleasantly. However the attitude of "Brits"
                        > to social or pub drinking is entirely different to the American
                        > attitude (the Europeans are constantly, and rightly, horrified at our
                        > habits) so it's erroneous to compare possible trade effects between US
                        > and UK bars.
                        >
                        > A change in social smoking is coming, is already noticable, but the
                        > change must be smooth and appear to be publically demanded and not
                        > governmentally enforced or the UK public will automatically kick
                        > against it. The seatbelt law had very vocal opponents but now no one
                        > in their right mind would question it now. Smoking (and its hazards)
                        > will go the same way.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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