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Re: [GAdetection] Re: A question

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  • W. Peck
    And they do no better with their hardbacks. My thirtyfive dollar copy of a nonmystery, JEAN-CHRISTOPHE, classic multivolume French fiction by Romain Rolland,
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 9, 2003
      And they do no better with their hardbacks. My thirtyfive dollar copy of
      a nonmystery, JEAN-CHRISTOPHE, classic multivolume French fiction by
      Romain Rolland, the only translation available at my time of purchase, is
      atrocious.
      ;
      --- b_ergang <bergang@...> wrote:
      > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "agh7746" <agh7746@w...> wrote:
      > > And I agree with having books that have misprints or typos or
      > >something wrong that the publisher/printer didn't catch. It just
      > >makes the collection a little more unusual.
      >
      > In that case, Anita, find every Carroll & Graf reprint you can lay
      > your hands on. When it comes to proofreading, this outfit is the all-
      > time pits! C&G editions are peppered with typos. :-)
      >
      > Best,
      > Barry
      >
      >


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    • Xavier Lechard
      I am currently reading Peter Lovesey s final novel about Edward VII, Bertie and the Crime of Passion , and the Carr enthusiast that I am couldn t help
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 3, 2004
        I am currently reading Peter Lovesey's final novel about Edward VII, "Bertie
        and the Crime of Passion", and the Carr enthusiast that I am couldn't help
        noticing the French supercop is named Goron, an old acquaintance to all
        serious fans of the Master. Is it a mere coincidence or did Lovesey intended
        it as kind of a tribute? Anyone knows?

        Friendly,
        Xavier
      • Xavier Lechard
        I recently talked with a friend of mine sharing my passion for the history of mystery fiction and he remarked that further blossom and popularity of the genre
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
          I recently talked with a friend of mine sharing my passion for the history of mystery fiction and he remarked that further blossom and popularity of the genre were as much a matter of chance as of potential as it didn't immediately take off: the twenty years following "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" were nearly sterile and mysteries would probably have followed the way of dinosaurs had Gaboriau and Collins not been there to revive the flame. He thus concluded that modern historians a la Symons were wrong to ascribe a direction to the development of the genre as there was nothing unavoidable about it; only strong individualities and welcoming fashions helped the genre to grow and mature. What do you think of it?

          Friendly,
          Xavier

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jon Jermey
          Hi Xavier, I tend to believe that with the development of a professional police force it was probably inevitable that there would be a detective branch, and
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
            Hi Xavier,

            I tend to believe that with the development of a professional police
            force it was probably inevitable that there would be a detective branch,
            and after that it was inevitable that someone would begin writing
            romanticised versions of their adventures. Remember too the teeming
            numbers of official and semi-official investigators in a
            twentieth-century bureaucratic Welfare State - insurance investigators,
            coroners, espionage agents, health inspectors, auditors, summons
            deliverers, forensic scientists, etc, etc - all of whom have inspired
            fiction of one kind or another. So I tend to feel the 'mainstream'
            detective novel starts in 1743 with Jonathan Wild, Thief-taker, and
            continues through the fictionalised exploits of Vidocq in the early
            1800s. Poe's, and later Doyle's, 'private investigators' were an
            inspired invention, but I think there would have been a tradition of
            detective fiction even if they hadn't come along. Perhaps 'private'
            detectives would have originated as friends of or consultants to the
            official investigator, like Doctor Priestley or Ludovic Travers, but I
            suspect they would have put in an appearance by the 1930s at the latest.

            Jon.

            Xavier Lechard wrote:
            > I recently talked with a friend of mine sharing my passion for the history of mystery fiction and he remarked that further blossom and popularity of the genre were as much a matter of chance as of potential as it didn't immediately take off: the twenty years following "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" were nearly sterile and mysteries would probably have followed the way of dinosaurs had Gaboriau and Collins not been there to revive the flame. He thus concluded that modern historians a la Symons were wrong to ascribe a direction to the development of the genre as there was nothing unavoidable about it; only strong individualities and welcoming fashions helped the genre to grow and mature. What do you think of it?
            >
            > Friendly,
            > Xavier
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
          • mr.molesack
            I have heard the suggestion that the enormous surge in popularity of the genre was to do with the arrival of the short story as a popular literary format. When
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
              I have heard the suggestion that the enormous surge in popularity of
              the genre was to do with the arrival of the short story as a popular
              literary format. When short stories (rather than the novel told in
              magazine form over several months) became popular, then there had to
              be stories told that could fit in that format. When you think about
              it, the detective story is perfect for this format. They impose a
              narrative shape onto the material (puzzle,investigation, solution)
              and the casual reader will be more likely to read to the end just to
              find out how the puzzle is solved.
              By the way, I may be guilty of some sort of blasphemy, but does
              anyone else find Poe's detective stuff incredibly dull? There has
              been a tendency amongst some critics (such as Lancelyn Green) to
              view Poe as the genius and innovator, whilst Doyle is viewed as a
              johny-come-lately who pinched all of his ideas. Whilst I admire some
              of Poe's fiction and poetry, I must admit that I found reading THE
              GOLD BUG, MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE, and THE PURLOINED LETTER a real
              slog. Whilst only a few decades separates Poe from Doyle, it is
              Sherlock Holmes who has weathered the passage of time rather than
              Dupin. I still believe Doyle to be the superior author.


              --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Xavier Lechard"
              <lechardxavier@...> wrote:
              >
              > I recently talked with a friend of mine sharing my passion for the
              history of mystery fiction and he remarked that further blossom and
              popularity of the genre were as much a matter of chance as of
              potential as it didn't immediately take off: the twenty years
              following "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" were nearly sterile and
              mysteries would probably have followed the way of dinosaurs had
              Gaboriau and Collins not been there to revive the flame. He thus
              concluded that modern historians a la Symons were wrong to ascribe a
              direction to the development of the genre as there was nothing
              unavoidable about it; only strong individualities and welcoming
              fashions helped the genre to grow and mature. What do you think of
              it?
              >
              > Friendly,
              > Xavier
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Xavier Lechard
              Mr. Molesack wrote:
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                Mr. Molesack wrote:

                <<By the way, I may be guilty of some sort of blasphemy, but does
                anyone else find Poe's detective stuff incredibly dull? There has
                been a tendency amongst some critics (such as Lancelyn Green) to
                view Poe as the genius and innovator, whilst Doyle is viewed as a
                johny-come-lately who pinched all of his ideas. Whilst I admire some
                of Poe's fiction and poetry, I must admit that I found reading THE
                GOLD BUG, MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE, and THE PURLOINED LETTER a real
                slog. Whilst only a few decades separates Poe from Doyle, it is
                Sherlock Holmes who has weathered the passage of time rather than
                Dupin. I still believe Doyle to be the superior author.. >>

                Doyle wrote detective stories. Poe didn't.
                The latter statement may sound as a paradox, since Poe is usually credited
                for the invention of the detective story, but we have to remember that this
                finding was an unintentional one. The ratiocination tales - as their author
                called them - set up the whole apparatus of the genre to come yet Poe's
                intentions were quite remote from those of his followers. The late French
                scholar Claude Richard argued that Dupin, far from being an embodiment of
                logic and reason, was actually meant as an allegory of the poet's ability to
                see more than meets the eye through the prism of imagination. This accounts
                for Poe's disappointment and further disparaging comments on the tales when
                he realized people didn't 'get the point' and instead reveled in the sole
                unfolding of the problem which he regarded as almost secondary.

                Friendly,
                Xavier
              • mr.molesack
                Re-reading my earlier comments, and your carefully reasoned response, I do feel like a ignorant loudmouth. However, I still maintain that I had a point.
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                  Re-reading my earlier comments, and your carefully reasoned
                  response, I do feel like a ignorant loudmouth. However, I still
                  maintain that I had a point. Looking at Poe's output, the stuff that
                  he is remembered for by the general public can be slotted into two
                  main groups--the 'detective' stories and the 'horror' tales.
                  Regarding the 'horror' stories, I first read THE TELL TALE HEART as
                  a child and was immediately haunted by it. I can still remember
                  great swathes of it years later. The same goes for THE BLACK CAT and
                  a number of others. Despite the passage of more than a century,
                  these tales speak to me directly. There is an immediacy, and a sense
                  of the author speaking to you directly unimpeded by changes in
                  fashion and taste.
                  The detective tales, on the other hand, never grabbed my attention
                  or my affection. As far as I am concerned, there is simply too much
                  attention paid to the arid process of deduction, and too little paid
                  to character and mood. It is interesting to note that Doyle, who
                  perhaps more than anyone else was responsible for the creation of
                  the classic detective short story, realised this. Some of the best
                  Holmes tales work so well because they mix the pleasure of watching
                  the detective unravelling the mystery via logic, with a strong sense
                  of the macabre and mysterious. The scenes where Holmes and Watson
                  wait for the appearance of THE SPECKLED BAND are reminiscent of the
                  best of Poe, but they are enclosed within Holmes'displays of logic
                  and common sense.I have always thought that the detective story is
                  really a synthesis of the rational and the irrational, the
                  straightforward and the macabre. The reason that Poe's detective
                  fiction didn't immediately inspire as many imitators as Doyle, was
                  because they sought to reach the intellect without exciting the
                  imagination. Balance is everything.




                  --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Xavier Lechard"
                  <lechardxavier@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mr. Molesack wrote:
                  >
                  > <<By the way, I may be guilty of some sort of blasphemy, but does
                  > anyone else find Poe's detective stuff incredibly dull? There has
                  > been a tendency amongst some critics (such as Lancelyn Green) to
                  > view Poe as the genius and innovator, whilst Doyle is viewed as a
                  > johny-come-lately who pinched all of his ideas. Whilst I admire
                  some
                  > of Poe's fiction and poetry, I must admit that I found reading THE
                  > GOLD BUG, MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE, and THE PURLOINED LETTER a
                  real
                  > slog. Whilst only a few decades separates Poe from Doyle, it is
                  > Sherlock Holmes who has weathered the passage of time rather than
                  > Dupin. I still believe Doyle to be the superior author.. >>
                  >
                  > Doyle wrote detective stories. Poe didn't.
                  > The latter statement may sound as a paradox, since Poe is usually
                  credited
                  > for the invention of the detective story, but we have to remember
                  that this
                  > finding was an unintentional one. The ratiocination tales - as
                  their author
                  > called them - set up the whole apparatus of the genre to come yet
                  Poe's
                  > intentions were quite remote from those of his followers. The late
                  French
                  > scholar Claude Richard argued that Dupin, far from being an
                  embodiment of
                  > logic and reason, was actually meant as an allegory of the poet's
                  ability to
                  > see more than meets the eye through the prism of imagination. This
                  accounts
                  > for Poe's disappointment and further disparaging comments on the
                  tales when
                  > he realized people didn't 'get the point' and instead reveled in
                  the sole
                  > unfolding of the problem which he regarded as almost secondary.
                  >
                  > Friendly,
                  > Xavier
                  >
                • Jon Jermey
                  To me there is one utterly vital aspect of Sherlock Holmes which is often overlooked -- he makes mistakes! Quite serious ones, sometimes. Is this the secret of
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                    To me there is one utterly vital aspect of Sherlock Holmes which is
                    often overlooked -- he makes mistakes! Quite serious ones, sometimes. Is
                    this the secret of his popularity? No-one can sympathise with a
                    deductive superman; but we can all sympathise with someone competent who
                    occasionally blunders.

                    And don't we all have smarter brothers somewhere too?

                    Jon.

                    mr.molesack wrote:
                    > ...The reason that Poe's detective
                    > fiction didn't immediately inspire as many imitators as Doyle, was
                    > because they sought to reach the intellect without exciting the
                    > imagination. Balance is everything.
                    >
                    >
                  • mr.molesack
                    Yes, remember THE SOLITARY CYCLIST, where the defrocked clergyman points out that Holmes has made a mistake in his deductions. Or THE YELLOW FACE where he gets
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                      Yes, remember THE SOLITARY CYCLIST, where the defrocked clergyman
                      points out that Holmes has made a mistake in his deductions. Or THE
                      YELLOW FACE where he gets the whole thing wrong. You can be a
                      genius, like Holmes, and still have an off-day. This makes us all
                      feel better, especially when we are having off-days, or even off-
                      months.



                      --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, Jon Jermey <jonjermey@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > To me there is one utterly vital aspect of Sherlock Holmes which
                      is
                      > often overlooked -- he makes mistakes! Quite serious ones,
                      sometimes. Is
                      > this the secret of his popularity? No-one can sympathise with a
                      > deductive superman; but we can all sympathise with someone
                      competent who
                      > occasionally blunders.
                      >
                      > And don't we all have smarter brothers somewhere too?
                      >
                      > Jon.
                      >
                      > mr.molesack wrote:
                      > > ...The reason that Poe's detective
                      > > fiction didn't immediately inspire as many imitators as Doyle,
                      was
                      > > because they sought to reach the intellect without exciting the
                      > > imagination. Balance is everything.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Sandy Kozinn
                      ... He wasn t exactly on the mark in FIVE ORANGE PIPS, either. Solving the case after you ve sent the client to his death leaves something to be desired,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                        >Yes, remember THE SOLITARY CYCLIST, where the defrocked clergyman
                        >points out that Holmes has made a mistake in his deductions. Or THE
                        >YELLOW FACE where he gets the whole thing wrong. You can be a
                        >genius, like Holmes, and still have an off-day. This makes us all
                        >feel better, especially when we are having off-days, or even off-
                        >months.

                        He wasn't exactly on the mark in FIVE ORANGE PIPS, either. Solving
                        the case after you've sent the client to his death leaves something
                        to be desired, doesn't it?

                        Sandy, certified Sherlockian
                      • Barry Ergang
                        ... I m not the world s biggest Sherlock Holmes fan, but I have to agree with you that Doyle s detective stories are much more engaging and accessible than
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                          --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "mr.molesack" <mr.molesack@...> wrote:
                          > Whilst I admire some of Poe's fiction and poetry, I must admit that
                          > I found reading THE GOLD BUG, MURDERS IN THE RUE MORGUE, and THE
                          > PURLOINED LETTER a real slog. Whilst only a few decades
                          > separates Poe from Doyle, it is Sherlock Holmes who has
                          > weathered the passage of time rather than Dupin. I still
                          > believe Doyle to be the superior author.

                          I'm not the world's biggest Sherlock Holmes fan, but I have to agree
                          with you that Doyle's detective stories are much more engaging and
                          accessible than Poe's. I discovered and became enamored of Poe's
                          horror tales when I was in the eighth grade, and found them infinitely
                          preferable to his puzzle plots, despite the latter's undeniable
                          importance to the mystery genre. In adulthood, I once got through "The
                          Purloined Letter," but although I've tried "The Murders in the Rue
                          Morgue" and "The Mystery of Marie Roget" several times each, I've
                          never been able to get beyond a couple of pages of either.
                        • Barry Ergang
                          ... That may be so, Xavier, but for someone who wrote some wonderful poetry and chillingly atmospheric horror stories, Poe rendered his ratiocinative tales in
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 28, 2007
                            --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Xavier Lechard"
                            <lechardxavier@...> wrote:
                            > ....Poe's intentions were quite remote from those of his followers.
                            > The late French scholar Claude Richard argued that Dupin, far
                            > from being an embodiment of logic and reason, was actually
                            > meant as an allegory of the poet's ability to see more than
                            > meets the eye through the prism of imagination. This accounts for
                            > Poe's disappointment and further disparaging comments on the tales
                            > when he realized people didn't 'get the point' and instead
                            > reveled in the sole unfolding of the problem which he regarded
                            > as almost secondary.

                            That may be so, Xavier, but for someone who wrote some wonderful
                            poetry and chillingly atmospheric horror stories, Poe rendered his
                            ratiocinative tales in a dry-as-dust style better suited to journalism
                            or case studies that muted any sense of poetic perception.

                            As you pointed out, Doyle effectively integrated story,
                            characterization, and atmosphere in a manner that does a better job of
                            bolstering Richard's thesis of the detective as possessor of a poetic
                            imagination.
                          • Xavier Lechard
                            Mr. Molesack wrote:
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 29, 2007
                              Mr. Molesack wrote:

                              <<The detective tales, on the other hand, never grabbed my attention
                              or my affection. As far as I am concerned, there is simply too much
                              attention paid to the arid process of deduction, and too little paid
                              to character and mood. It is interesting to note that Doyle, who
                              perhaps more than anyone else was responsible for the creation of
                              the classic detective short story, realised this.

                              Some of the best
                              Holmes tales work so well because they mix the pleasure of watching
                              the detective unravelling the mystery via logic, with a strong sense
                              of the macabre and mysterious. The scenes where Holmes and Watson
                              wait for the appearance of THE SPECKLED BAND are reminiscent of the
                              best of Poe, but they are enclosed within Holmes'displays of logic
                              and common sense.I have always thought that the detective story is
                              really a synthesis of the rational and the irrational, the
                              straightforward and the macabre. The reason that Poe's detective
                              fiction didn't immediately inspire as many imitators as Doyle, was
                              because they sought to reach the intellect without exciting the
                              imagination.>>

                              I agree, except that I'd say "crystalisation" rather than "creation" as
                              Doyle actually came in at the end of the process.
                              Here again we have to point out the differences between his and Poe's
                              approaches. Doyle was a storyteller, one of the greatest ever in my opinion.
                              His objective was to grip the reader and he knew what it takes: characters,
                              action, setting and the interaction of all three - in short, a good story.
                              That's why the Canon ages so well, despite the plots not surprising us
                              anymore. Poe on the other hand never cared much for characterization or
                              atmosphere but for how they'd serve the effect he wanted to achieve, and his
                              tales are notoriously ruminative, devoid of any *action* in the ordinary
                              sense of the word. One might say that Poe wrote demonstrations rather than
                              stories, and the ratiocination tales are the most radical; only the presence
                              of imaginary characters keeps them in the field of fiction - as a matter of
                              fact, they are closer in form and tone to the essay "Malzel's Chess-Player"
                              than to any story he ever wrote.

                              <<Balance is everything.>>

                              Balance never was Poe's top-priority. :-)

                              Friendly,
                              Xavier
                            • Anita Hoffman
                              I am re-arranging my library and came across a book called Dark Masquerade, A startling novel of love, crime and redemption by an illustrious Anonymous Author.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 20, 2015
                                I am re-arranging my library and came across a book called Dark Masquerade, A startling novel of love, crime and redemption by an illustrious Anonymous Author. It is a first edition with a dust jacket with a black mask like the Long Ranger wore on a yellow and red background. The publisher was Green Circle Books, New York. copyright 1936 by Lee Furman, Inc.

                                I know I bought it at a garage sale years ago, and was intrigued by the fact that the author was a mystery. Sadly to say, I have never read it.

                                Does anyone from this group have any ideas about who wrote it, or any information? Many thanks in advance.

                                Anita
                              • Victor Berch
                                Dear Ms. Hoffman: Her name was Virginia Stallard Harris, wife of Herbert H. Harris. Her co-author was Edward Doherty You can poke around on Google for some
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 20, 2015
                                  Dear Ms. Hoffman:
                                  Her name was Virginia Stallard Harris, wife of Herbert H. Harris. Her co-author was Edward Doherty
                                  You can poke around on Google for some further info.
                                  Best wishes,
                                  Victor A. Berch

                                  On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Anita Hoffman agh7746@... [GAdetection] <GAdetection@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                  I am re-arranging my library and came across a book called Dark Masquerade, A startling novel of love, crime and redemption by an illustrious Anonymous Author. It is a first edition with a dust jacket with a black mask like the Long Ranger wore on a yellow and red background.  The publisher was Green Circle Books, New York. copyright 1936 by Lee Furman, Inc.

                                  I know I bought it at a garage sale years ago,  and was intrigued by the fact that the author was a mystery. Sadly to say, I have never read it.

                                  Does anyone from this group have any ideas about who wrote it, or any information? Many thanks in advance.

                                  Anita

                                  ------------------------------------
                                  Posted by: Anita Hoffman <agh7746@...>
                                  ------------------------------------


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                                • Anita Hoffman
                                  Thank you so much Victor. I love when the mystery is solved! Sent from my iPhone Anita
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 20, 2015
                                    Thank you so much Victor. I love when the mystery is solved!


                                    Sent from my iPhone
                                    Anita 

                                    On Jul 20, 2015, at 15:34, Victor Berch berch@... [GAdetection] <GAdetection@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                     

                                    Dear Ms. Hoffman:
                                    Her name was Virginia Stallard Harris, wife of Herbert H. Harris. Her co-author was Edward Doherty
                                    You can poke around on Google for some further info.
                                    Best wishes,
                                    Victor A. Berch

                                    On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Anita Hoffman agh7746@... [GAdetection] <GAdetection@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                    I am re-arranging my library and came across a book called Dark Masquerade, A startling novel of love, crime and redemption by an illustrious Anonymous Author. It is a first edition with a dust jacket with a black mask like the Long Ranger wore on a yellow and red background.  The publisher was Green Circle Books, New York. copyright 1936 by Lee Furman, Inc.

                                    I know I bought it at a garage sale years ago,  and was intrigued by the fact that the author was a mystery. Sadly to say, I have never read it.

                                    Does anyone from this group have any ideas about who wrote it, or any information? Many thanks in advance.

                                    Anita

                                    ------------------------------------
                                    Posted by: Anita Hoffman <agh7746@...>
                                    ------------------------------------


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