Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Bryant and May TV-series

Expand Messages
  • mr.molesack
    ... I m inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He s basically a comedy writer, but he s done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre,
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "alanjbishop1" <alanjbishop1@...> wrote:
      >
      > As a fan of Jonathan Creek, I can agree that Renwick's work can be poor but - on the whole - is rather good and sympathetic to the whole Locked Room/murder Mystery genre.
      >

      I'm inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He's basically a comedy writer, but he's done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre, some of them highly effective. I don't think that Carr would have felt ashamed to have written stories like THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE / BLACK CANARY / THE RECONSTITUTED CORPSE.
    • Last Century Detective
      I m also strongly inclined to let Renwick get away with a lot of things, though I really saw no redeeming qualities at all in this year special, and honestly
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        I'm also strongly inclined to let Renwick get away with a lot of things, though I really saw no redeeming qualities at all in this year special, and honestly speaking the series had a lot of real bad stinkers – there's really no defense at all for The House of Monkeys.

        On the other hand, however, they're easily forgiven once you've marveled at the brilliance of Jack in the Box and its fiendishly clever new way to seal a room from the inside; the Chestonian problem of the chronophobiac who can manipulate time (Time Waits for Norman – a personal favorite); the murdering skeleton who disappears from a watched garage (Danse Macabre) or one of the grandest impossible crime plots, outside of the written page, in The Black Canary (it's really a visual treat to see something out of Carr unfold on the small screen).

        Heck, even some of the later episodes, like Angel Hair and The Tailor's Dummy, had some very original impossible problems (growing back a full set of hair within a day and a white man turning into a black man in front of a witness) with clever solutions that would've made the great conjurers of the detective story proud.

        Jonathan Creek, at its best, also demonstrates that it's possible to do good adaptations of John Dickson Carr's work. All you need is a writers who understands, and likes, what he's working with.


        --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "mr.molesack" <mr.molesack@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "alanjbishop1" <alanjbishop1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > As a fan of Jonathan Creek, I can agree that Renwick's work can be poor but - on the whole - is rather good and sympathetic to the whole Locked Room/murder Mystery genre.
        > >
        >
        > I'm inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He's basically a comedy writer, but he's done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre, some of them highly effective. I don't think that Carr would have felt ashamed to have written stories like THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE / BLACK CANARY / THE RECONSTITUTED CORPSE.
        >
      • Tony Medawar
        Carr was sexist but never misogynistic. Renwick s later scripts are awfully misogynistic. ... From: Last Century Detective To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 2, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Carr was sexist but never misogynistic. Renwick's later scripts are awfully misogynistic.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Last Century Detective
          To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:44 PM
          Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Bryant and May TV-series



          I'm also strongly inclined to let Renwick get away with a lot of things, though I really saw no redeeming qualities at all in this year special, and honestly speaking the series had a lot of real bad stinkers - there's really no defense at all for The House of Monkeys.

          On the other hand, however, they're easily forgiven once you've marveled at the brilliance of Jack in the Box and its fiendishly clever new way to seal a room from the inside; the Chestonian problem of the chronophobiac who can manipulate time (Time Waits for Norman - a personal favorite); the murdering skeleton who disappears from a watched garage (Danse Macabre) or one of the grandest impossible crime plots, outside of the written page, in The Black Canary (it's really a visual treat to see something out of Carr unfold on the small screen).

          Heck, even some of the later episodes, like Angel Hair and The Tailor's Dummy, had some very original impossible problems (growing back a full set of hair within a day and a white man turning into a black man in front of a witness) with clever solutions that would've made the great conjurers of the detective story proud.

          Jonathan Creek, at its best, also demonstrates that it's possible to do good adaptations of John Dickson Carr's work. All you need is a writers who understands, and likes, what he's working with.

          --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "mr.molesack" <mr.molesack@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "alanjbishop1" <alanjbishop1@> wrote:
          > >
          > > As a fan of Jonathan Creek, I can agree that Renwick's work can be poor but - on the whole - is rather good and sympathetic to the whole Locked Room/murder Mystery genre.
          > >
          >
          > I'm inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He's basically a comedy writer, but he's done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre, some of them highly effective. I don't think that Carr would have felt ashamed to have written stories like THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE / BLACK CANARY / THE RECONSTITUTED CORPSE.
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scott
          Though you re probably right, Tony (is it a sign of my insensitivity that I never really noticed the misogyny?), I m such a plot person that my opinion of
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Though you're probably right, Tony (is it a sign of my insensitivity that I never really noticed the misogyny?), I'm such a "plot" person that my opinion of Renwick has primarily been based in an admiration of his ingenious re-shuffling of Carrian (and Chestertonian)devices. I've actually almost always found the humor in "Creek" heavy-handed and crass, but have considered it expendable window-dressing, easy for me to look past and forget.

            Though many of the stories are deeply flawed, even with a "That's just ludicrous!" episode such as SEER IN THE SANDS (in which the odds against events occurring just as they did is only matched by the odds against Jonathan somehow surmising that they did), I've been impressed by Renwick's ingenuity. Also most impressive is his understanding that an emphasis on clueing is as important as on impossibility (which is why I find the CREEK stories vastly more impressive than any episodes of BANACEK). And though some may find it a cheesy convention, I love the overt moments of Creek's anagnorisis (e.g. Maddy making a wise-crack that suddenly triggers Jonathan's understanding of the entire case).

            Unlike my distinctly minority opinions on the Jim Hutton ELLERY QUEEN series (in which my favorite episode, THE ADVENTURE OF THE CHINESE DOG, is oft cited by others as the very weakest), my round-up of favorite JONATHAN CREEK episodes is fairly mainstream:

            BLACK CANARY
            JACK IN THE BOX
            DANSE MACABRE
            THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE
            SATAN'S CHIMNEY
            MIRACLE IN CROOKED LANE
            TAILOR'S DUMMY

            That last title might be a bit of an odd call for some, but I really didn't consider the fourth series as all that much of a dropping-off in quality, and TAILOR'S DUMMY was the best (IMO) of that season.

            I've still yet to see GRINNING MAN and JUDAS TREE (bet I won't like it as much as the JUDAS TREE episode of ELLERY QUEEN!) and I guess gotta re-watch TIME WAITS FOR NORMAN, based on Last Century Detective's recommendation.

            - Scott




            --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Medawar" <tonymedawar@...> wrote:
            >
            > Carr was sexist but never misogynistic. Renwick's later scripts are awfully misogynistic.
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Last Century Detective
            > To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:44 PM
            > Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Bryant and May TV-series
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm also strongly inclined to let Renwick get away with a lot of things, though I really saw no redeeming qualities at all in this year special, and honestly speaking the series had a lot of real bad stinkers - there's really no defense at all for The House of Monkeys.
            >
            > On the other hand, however, they're easily forgiven once you've marveled at the brilliance of Jack in the Box and its fiendishly clever new way to seal a room from the inside; the Chestonian problem of the chronophobiac who can manipulate time (Time Waits for Norman - a personal favorite); the murdering skeleton who disappears from a watched garage (Danse Macabre) or one of the grandest impossible crime plots, outside of the written page, in The Black Canary (it's really a visual treat to see something out of Carr unfold on the small screen).
            >
            > Heck, even some of the later episodes, like Angel Hair and The Tailor's Dummy, had some very original impossible problems (growing back a full set of hair within a day and a white man turning into a black man in front of a witness) with clever solutions that would've made the great conjurers of the detective story proud.
            >
            > Jonathan Creek, at its best, also demonstrates that it's possible to do good adaptations of John Dickson Carr's work. All you need is a writers who understands, and likes, what he's working with.
            >
            > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "mr.molesack" <mr.molesack@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "alanjbishop1" <alanjbishop1@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > As a fan of Jonathan Creek, I can agree that Renwick's work can be poor but - on the whole - is rather good and sympathetic to the whole Locked Room/murder Mystery genre.
            > > >
            > >
            > > I'm inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He's basically a comedy writer, but he's done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre, some of them highly effective. I don't think that Carr would have felt ashamed to have written stories like THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE / BLACK CANARY / THE RECONSTITUTED CORPSE.
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • miketooney49
            I ve always been fondest of The Reconstituted Corpse, which is summarized (WITH SPOILERS) here: http://www.jonathancreek.net/season1episode3.asp How can an
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I've always been fondest of "The Reconstituted
              Corpse," which is summarized (WITH SPOILERS)
              here:

              http://www.jonathancreek.net/season1episode3.asp

              How can an empty wardrobe under constant
              surveillance by the people who are moving it
              unexpectedly disgorge a dead body once it
              has reached its destination?

              ============================

              --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <monescu4@...> wrote:
              >
              > Though you're probably right, Tony (is it a sign of my insensitivity that I never really noticed the misogyny?), I'm such a "plot" person that my opinion of Renwick has primarily been based in an admiration of his ingenious re-shuffling of Carrian (and Chestertonian)devices. I've actually almost always found the humor in "Creek" heavy-handed and crass, but have considered it expendable window-dressing, easy for me to look past and forget.
              >
              > Though many of the stories are deeply flawed, even with a "That's just ludicrous!" episode such as SEER IN THE SANDS (in which the odds against events occurring just as they did is only matched by the odds against Jonathan somehow surmising that they did), I've been impressed by Renwick's ingenuity. Also most impressive is his understanding that an emphasis on clueing is as important as on impossibility (which is why I find the CREEK stories vastly more impressive than any episodes of BANACEK). And though some may find it a cheesy convention, I love the overt moments of Creek's anagnorisis (e.g. Maddy making a wise-crack that suddenly triggers Jonathan's understanding of the entire case).
              >
              > Unlike my distinctly minority opinions on the Jim Hutton ELLERY QUEEN series (in which my favorite episode, THE ADVENTURE OF THE CHINESE DOG, is oft cited by others as the very weakest), my round-up of favorite JONATHAN CREEK episodes is fairly mainstream:
              >
              > BLACK CANARY
              > JACK IN THE BOX
              > DANSE MACABRE
              > THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE
              > SATAN'S CHIMNEY
              > MIRACLE IN CROOKED LANE
              > TAILOR'S DUMMY
              >
              > That last title might be a bit of an odd call for some, but I really didn't consider the fourth series as all that much of a dropping-off in quality, and TAILOR'S DUMMY was the best (IMO) of that season.
              >
              > I've still yet to see GRINNING MAN and JUDAS TREE (bet I won't like it as much as the JUDAS TREE episode of ELLERY QUEEN!) and I guess gotta re-watch TIME WAITS FOR NORMAN, based on Last Century Detective's recommendation.
              >
              > - Scott
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Medawar" <tonymedawar@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Carr was sexist but never misogynistic. Renwick's later scripts are awfully misogynistic.
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Last Century Detective
              > > To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:44 PM
              > > Subject: [GAdetection] Re: Bryant and May TV-series
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I'm also strongly inclined to let Renwick get away with a lot of things, though I really saw no redeeming qualities at all in this year special, and honestly speaking the series had a lot of real bad stinkers - there's really no defense at all for The House of Monkeys.
              > >
              > > On the other hand, however, they're easily forgiven once you've marveled at the brilliance of Jack in the Box and its fiendishly clever new way to seal a room from the inside; the Chestonian problem of the chronophobiac who can manipulate time (Time Waits for Norman - a personal favorite); the murdering skeleton who disappears from a watched garage (Danse Macabre) or one of the grandest impossible crime plots, outside of the written page, in The Black Canary (it's really a visual treat to see something out of Carr unfold on the small screen).
              > >
              > > Heck, even some of the later episodes, like Angel Hair and The Tailor's Dummy, had some very original impossible problems (growing back a full set of hair within a day and a white man turning into a black man in front of a witness) with clever solutions that would've made the great conjurers of the detective story proud.
              > >
              > > Jonathan Creek, at its best, also demonstrates that it's possible to do good adaptations of John Dickson Carr's work. All you need is a writers who understands, and likes, what he's working with.
              > >
              > > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "mr.molesack" <mr.molesack@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, "alanjbishop1" <alanjbishop1@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > As a fan of Jonathan Creek, I can agree that Renwick's work can be poor but - on the whole - is rather good and sympathetic to the whole Locked Room/murder Mystery genre.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > I'm inclined to cut Renwick a lot of slack. He's basically a comedy writer, but he's done 26 variations on the whole locked room/impossible crime genre, some of them highly effective. I don't think that Carr would have felt ashamed to have written stories like THE PROBLEM AT GALLOWS GATE / BLACK CANARY / THE RECONSTITUTED CORPSE.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.