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Re: [GAdetection] Re: S. S. Van Dine for classroom use (wouldn't it be nice?)

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  • nick hay
    There are quite a few reasons why I am suspicious of these lines of argument and concerns (about an ageing fan-base, membership etc), which are applied in many
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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      There are quite a few reasons why I am suspicious of these lines of argument and
      concerns (about an ageing fan-base, membership etc), which are applied in many
      areas of human and artistic life. Some reasons are....

      1) As far as Yahoo lists (or other such Internet lists) are concerned my
      suspicion would be that the membership tends to be fairly elderly. I am sure
      this is true of most of those I am on (others of which have nothing to do with
      any kind of mystery novel). This is partly for very obvious reasons - if you are
      at work you are going to have a great deal less time for this sort of thing. I
      can spend my time participating because I am retired.
      2) Some things are just more attractive when you get older. Excellent examples
      of this include classical music, opera, serious literature and drama. People
      often cite the fact that audiences for these (especially the first) tend to the
      elderly: the question is whether they are any more elderly than they were
      10,20,30,50,100 years ago? I have only started taking any kind of serious
      interest in classical music in my 50's. I suspect that the same may well be true
      of GA mysteries. Where this is true, the attempt to attract younger audiences by
      devices which are intended to make something 'cool' or 'relevant' (horrid
      word) are not merely embarrassing (sometimes intensely so) but misplaced.
       And one should remember that in countries (which are certainly all Western
      ones) with an increasingly elderly population appealing to the elderly is no bad
      thing! An elderly audience does not mean that something is going to die out - it
      can just mean that is replaced by a new elderly one.

      3) If somethings are better appreciated by the mature attempting to force them
      on the young can be positively harmful. A genuinely elderly (93) Aunt of mine
      whom I have recently re-introduced to Trollope (a fine example of someone you
      are unlikely to start appreciating till you are 40) remarked on how sad she was
      at having missed so many years of reading pleasure from having been put off him
      at school. Discovering someone for oneself is always so much better than being
      co-erced.

      Of course none of the above applies to the issue of writers dropping off the
      radar altogether because their books become unavailable. Even here however I do
      not think that GA mysteries are by any means unique. Lots of writers, once
      hugely popular, from 50,100,200 years ago have disappeared - and then some
      re-appear as tastes and critical fashions change. Still there is no question
      that 'keeping the flame alive' is very valuable in such instances.


      NickH.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim
      ... Ah, there s the question! Do we introduce youngsters with the same books we were introduced to them with ? As I said, my introduction was Murder of Roger
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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        --- In GAdetection@yahoogroups.com, luis molina <lrmolina47@...> wrote:
        >
        > My son (24 years) read  about 20 SS of SH, but (!!!) did not like them very much.
        > I waited a few months and gave him the second book of the black widowers by Asimov. He said this were ok.
        > I am thinking what other books to give him (SS) that will make him come to GA mysteries.
        > Is GA Detection too old-fashioned in the 21st Century ? Do we have any
        > youngsters in this group ? I'm nearly 60 myself. Is there a new
        > generation of fans coming along & can our classrooms do anything to
        > introduce teen-agers to the joys of GA Detection ?
        Ah, there's the question! Do we introduce youngsters with the same books we were introduced to them with ? As I said, my introduction was "Murder of Roger Ackroyd". I assume SH means Sherlock Holmes ? If he doesn't like Sherlock Holmes, I have no idea what to suggest. I guess younger audiences are expecting Sherlock Holmes to be an action hero like Robert Downey, Jr. ? I wonder how many read the stories after that movie & were disappointed ??
      • Jeffrey Marks
        I have a student now who is a huge Nancy Drew fan. I had a student 2 years ago who loved The Cat Who series. At the end of the year, I bought him a The Cat
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 1, 2010
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          I have a student now who is a huge Nancy Drew fan. I had a student 2
          years ago who loved "The Cat Who" series. At the end of the year, I
          bought him a "The Cat Who" quiz book.

          So they do live on..

          Jeff

          --
          Jeffrey Marks
          www.jeffreymarks.com
          Check out my website for news about my books and marketing tips of the month
          Atomic Renaissance: Women Mystery Writers of the 1940s/1950s
          Who Was That Lady? Craig Rice: The Queen of the Screwball Mystery
          Anthony Boucher: A Biobibliography -- 2009 Anthony winner
        • Jeffrey Marks
          I would disagree.Some of the Holmes stories are quite exciting with tons of action. Think of the Hound! Not all, of course, but a good teacher who was trying
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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            I would disagree.Some of the Holmes stories are quite exciting with
            tons of action. Think of the Hound!

            Not all, of course, but a good teacher who was trying to get students
            interested in Holmes would appeal to what they've seen in the media.
            I usually introduce my students to The Speckled Band. There's enough
            atmosphere and action in that story to keep their attention.

            I hope to build my own little cadre of mystery readers as an English
            teacher. That would be a great legacy...

            Jeff

            --
            Jeffrey Marks
            www.jeffreymarks.com
            Check out my website for news about my books and marketing tips of the month
            Atomic Renaissance: Women Mystery Writers of the 1940s/1950s
            Who Was That Lady? Craig Rice: The Queen of the Screwball Mystery
            Anthony Boucher: A Biobibliography -- 2009 Anthony winner
          • LesBlatt@aol.com
            While it s not really Golden Age, I think one of the best mysteries for introducing young (say, 6th-8th grade and up) readers is Ellen Raskin s remarkable The
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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              While it's not really Golden Age, I think one of the best mysteries for
              introducing young (say, 6th-8th grade and up) readers is Ellen Raskin's
              remarkable "The Westing Game." It won the Newbery Medal in 1979, but it is very
              faithful to a lot of the traditions of GA mysteries - scrupulously fair, a
              lot of ingenious twists and turns, and - if the reader is paying a LOT of
              attention - a chance to reach the solution along with the one person in the
              book who does correctly solve the mystery. As with many other books "written
              for children," I think a lot of adults would enjoy it on its own terms.
              That's particularly true for members of this group. I did a review of the
              book as part of the Children's Mystery Challenge series several months ago -
              the link is here:
              _http://www.classicmysteries.net/2010/02/childrens-mystery-challenge-the-westing-game.html_
              (http://www.classicmysteries.net/2010/02/childrens-mystery-challenge-the-westing-game.html)

              Les Blatt
              _www.classicmysteries.net_ (http://www.classicmysteries.net)


              Posted by: "Jeffrey Marks" _jeffrmarks@... _
              (mailto:jeffrmarks@...?Subject= Re:%20S.%20S.%20Van%20D
              ine%20for%20classroom%20use%20(wouldn't%20it%20be%20nice?)) _jeffrey1marks _
              (http://profiles.yahoo.com/jeffrey1marks)
              Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:00 pm (PDT)


              I have a student now who is a huge Nancy Drew fan. I had a student 2
              years ago who loved "The Cat Who" series. At the end of the year, I
              bought him a "The Cat Who" quiz book.

              So they do live on..

              Jeff




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • luis molina
              After SH and several novels of Perry Mason, I read (at my 11 years) the 1950s edition of the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew. I still have most of the books and
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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                After SH and several novels of Perry Mason, I read (at my 11 years) the 1950s edition of the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.
                I still have most of the books and remember them with love.
                Luis 

                --- On Fri, 10/1/10, Jeffrey Marks <jeffrmarks@...> wrote:


                From: Jeffrey Marks <jeffrmarks@...>
                Subject: [GAdetection] Re: S. S. Van Dine for classroom use (wouldn't it be nice?)
                To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 1:00 PM


                 



                I have a student now who is a huge Nancy Drew fan. I had a student 2
                years ago who loved "The Cat Who" series. At the end of the year, I
                bought him a "The Cat Who" quiz book.

                So they do live on..

                Jeff

                --
                Jeffrey Marks
                www.jeffreymarks.com
                Check out my website for news about my books and marketing tips of the month
                Atomic Renaissance: Women Mystery Writers of the 1940s/1950s
                Who Was That Lady? Craig Rice: The Queen of the Screwball Mystery
                Anthony Boucher: A Biobibliography -- 2009 Anthony winner










                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nick Fuller
                I reread this last year; very clever - and strikingly similar to Ellery Queen: cryptic messages, hidden patterns, and multiple solutions.  Raskin wrote
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 2, 2010
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                  I reread this last year; very clever - and strikingly similar to Ellery Queen: cryptic messages, hidden patterns, and multiple solutions.  Raskin wrote another one, I seem to recall, about a sinister artist and his student.

                  --- On Sat, 2/10/10, LesBlatt@... <LesBlatt@...> wrote:


                  From: LesBlatt@... <LesBlatt@...>
                  Subject: [GAdetection] Re: S. S. Van Dine for classroom use (wouldn't it be nice?)
                  To: GAdetection@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Saturday, 2 October, 2010, 3:40 PM


                   



                  While it's not really Golden Age, I think one of the best mysteries for
                  introducing young (say, 6th-8th grade and up) readers is Ellen Raskin's
                  remarkable "The Westing Game." It won the Newbery Medal in 1979, but it is very
                  faithful to a lot of the traditions of GA mysteries - scrupulously fair, a
                  lot of ingenious twists and turns, and - if the reader is paying a LOT of
                  attention - a chance to reach the solution along with the one person in the
                  book who does correctly solve the mystery. As with many other books "written
                  for children," I think a lot of adults would enjoy it on its own terms.
                  That's particularly true for members of this group. I did a review of the
                  book as part of the Children's Mystery Challenge series several months ago -
                  the link is here:
                  _http://www.classicmysteries.net/2010/02/childrens-mystery-challenge-the-westing-game.html_
                  (http://www.classicmysteries.net/2010/02/childrens-mystery-challenge-the-westing-game.html)

                  Les Blatt
                  _www.classicmysteries.net_ (http://www.classicmysteries.net)


                  Posted by: "Jeffrey Marks" _jeffrmarks@... _
                  (mailto:jeffrmarks@...?Subject= Re:%20S.%20S.%20Van%20D
                  ine%20for%20classroom%20use%20(wouldn't%20it%20be%20nice?)) _jeffrey1marks _
                  (http://profiles.yahoo.com/jeffrey1marks)
                  Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:00 pm (PDT)

                  I have a student now who is a huge Nancy Drew fan. I had a student 2
                  years ago who loved "The Cat Who" series. At the end of the year, I
                  bought him a "The Cat Who" quiz book.

                  So they do live on..

                  Jeff

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Taylor401306@cs.com
                  In a message dated 10/3/2010 10:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Having done some substitute teaching myself, I know how difficult it is to introduce
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2010
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                    In a message dated 10/3/2010 10:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    GAdetection@yahoogroups.com writes:
                    > Re: S. S. Van Dine for classroom use (wouldn't it be nice?)
                    > Posted by: "Jeffrey Marks" jeffrmarks@... jeffrey1marks
                    > Date: Sat Oct 2, 2010 8:09 am ((PDT))
                    >
                    > I would disagree.Some of the Holmes stories are quite exciting with
                    > tons of action. Think of the Hound!
                    >
                    > Not all, of course, but a good teacher who was trying to get students
                    > interested in Holmes would appeal to what they've seen in the media.
                    > I usually introduce my students to The Speckled Band. There's enough
                    > atmosphere and action in that story to keep their attention.
                    >
                    > I hope to build my own little cadre of mystery readers as an English
                    > teacher. That would be a great legacy...
                    >
                    Having done some substitute teaching myself, I know how difficult it is to
                    introduce " ancient history" ( anything more than a decade old) to today's
                    classes. "The Speckled Band" is included in most literature books ( usually
                    along with "The Red-Headed League") . That is most people's introduction to
                    Holmes. Hopefully it will encourage them to search out "Hound of the
                    Baskervilles". I can remember trying to show Spencer Tracy's "Dr. Jekyll& Mr
                    Hyde"- first of all, they kept asking "Where's the color?" Then , "when is he
                    going to turn into a monster?" No patience.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe
                    Hey did you guys see where The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes by ACD is #1 on Amazon books?!! Looks like the cover is of Robert Downey, though. Couldn t
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 6, 2010
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                      Hey did you guys see where "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" by ACD is #1
                      on Amazon books?!! Looks like the cover is of Robert Downey, though.
                      Couldn't stand that movie...guess I'm an anachronism...only Basil is the
                      true Holmes!

                      I also bemoan the disappearance of Ellery Queen and Philo Vance from
                      contemporary readership. Heck, you can hardly find them in libraries
                      anymore. Sic transit gloria mundi.

                      I've just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the
                      recent decades that approaches the Classics?

                      Joe

                      On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 8:12 AM, <Taylor401306@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 10/3/2010 10:49:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      > GAdetection@yahoogroups.com <GAdetection%40yahoogroups.com> writes:
                      > > Re: S. S. Van Dine for classroom use (wouldn't it be nice?)
                      > > Posted by: "Jeffrey Marks" jeffrmarks@... <jeffrmarks%40gmail.com>jeffrey1marks
                      > > Date: Sat Oct 2, 2010 8:09 am ((PDT))
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I would disagree.Some of the Holmes stories are quite exciting with
                      > > tons of action. Think of the Hound!
                      > >
                      > > Not all, of course, but a good teacher who was trying to get students
                      > > interested in Holmes would appeal to what they've seen in the media.
                      > > I usually introduce my students to The Speckled Band. There's enough
                      > > atmosphere and action in that story to keep their attention.
                      > >
                      > > I hope to build my own little cadre of mystery readers as an English
                      > > teacher. That would be a great legacy...
                      > >
                      > Having done some substitute teaching myself, I know how difficult it is to
                      > introduce " ancient history" ( anything more than a decade old) to today's
                      > classes. "The Speckled Band" is included in most literature books ( usually
                      >
                      > along with "The Red-Headed League") . That is most people's introduction to
                      >
                      > Holmes. Hopefully it will encourage them to search out "Hound of the
                      > Baskervilles". I can remember trying to show Spencer Tracy's "Dr. Jekyll&
                      > Mr
                      > Hyde"- first of all, they kept asking "Where's the color?" Then , "when is
                      > he
                      > going to turn into a monster?" No patience.
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • LesBlatt@aol.com
                      Joe - At the risk of injuring my arm while patting myself on the back, my Classic Mysteries site includes suggestions from before, during and after the Golden
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 8, 2010
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                        Joe -

                        At the risk of injuring my arm while patting myself on the back, my Classic
                        Mysteries site includes suggestions from before, during and after the
                        Golden Age. There's a weekly podcast review and other blog entries which may
                        provide some ideas - I do try to write primarily about books either still in
                        print, readily available, or available in ebook format. It's at
                        _www.classicmysteries.net_ (http://www.classicmysteries.net) . There are plenty of
                        folks here who will be glad to offer their own suggestions as well. Welcome
                        to the group!

                        Cheers,

                        Les Blatt



                        Posted by: "Joe" _joehonl@... _ (mailto:joehonl@...?Subject=
                        Re:%20S.%20S.%20Van%20Dine%20for%20classroom%20use%20(wouldn't%20it%20be%20nic
                        e?)) _joehonl _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/joehonl)
                        Fri Oct 8, 2010 7:28 am (PDT)


                        Hey did you guys see where "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" by ACD is #1
                        on Amazon books?!! Looks like the cover is of Robert Downey, though.
                        Couldn't stand that movie...guess I'm an anachronism.Couldn't stand that
                        true Holmes!

                        I also bemoan the disappearance of Ellery Queen and Philo Vance from
                        contemporary readership. Heck, you can hardly find them in libraries
                        anymore. Sic transit gloria mundi.

                        I've just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the
                        recent decades that approaches the Classics?




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Joe
                        Mahalo, Les, from Aloha Land. Will wisit your worthy website! Joe ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 8, 2010
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                          Mahalo, Les, from Aloha Land. Will wisit your worthy website!

                          Joe

                          On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 5:23 AM, <LesBlatt@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Joe -
                          >
                          > At the risk of injuring my arm while patting myself on the back, my Classic
                          >
                          > Mysteries site includes suggestions from before, during and after the
                          > Golden Age. There's a weekly podcast review and other blog entries which
                          > may
                          > provide some ideas - I do try to write primarily about books either still
                          > in
                          > print, readily available, or available in ebook format. It's at
                          > _www.classicmysteries.net_ (http://www.classicmysteries.net) . There are
                          > plenty of
                          > folks here who will be glad to offer their own suggestions as well. Welcome
                          >
                          > to the group!
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Les Blatt
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Posted by: "Joe" _joehonl@... <_joehonl%40gmail.com> _ (mailto:
                          > joehonl@... <joehonl%40gmail.com>?Subject=
                          >
                          > Re:%20S.%20S.%20Van%20Dine%20for%20classroom%20use%20(wouldn't%20it%20be%20nic
                          > e?)) _joehonl _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/joehonl)
                          > Fri Oct 8, 2010 7:28 am (PDT)
                          >
                          > Hey did you guys see where "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" by ACD is #1
                          > on Amazon books?!! Looks like the cover is of Robert Downey, though.
                          > Couldn't stand that movie...guess I'm an anachronism.Couldn't stand that
                          >
                          > true Holmes!
                          >
                          > I also bemoan the disappearance of Ellery Queen and Philo Vance from
                          > contemporary readership. Heck, you can hardly find them in libraries
                          > anymore. Sic transit gloria mundi.
                          >
                          > I've just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the
                          > recent decades that approaches the Classics?
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • nzkpzq
                          I ve just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the recent decades that approaches the Classics? Crippen & Landru publishes some
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 10, 2010
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                            "I've just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the
                            recent decades that approaches the Classics?"

                            Crippen & Landru publishes some excellent modern books in Golden Age style:

                            Edward D. Hoch - The Velvet Touch
                            Edward D. Hoch - The Old Spies Club
                            Edward D. Hoch - More Things Impossible
                            Jon L. Breen - Kill the Umpire

                            Also try:
                            Paul Halter - The Night of the Wolf

                            Mike Grost

                            PS Today is 10/10/10 - and my 57th birthday.
                          • Joe
                            Hi Mike, Our libraries online catalog shows several other titles by Hoch but not the ones you suggested, plus several anthologies including All But
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 10, 2010
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                              Hi Mike,

                              Our libraries' online catalog shows several other titles by Hoch but not the
                              ones you suggested, plus several anthologies including "All But Impossible".
                              Will check 'em out.

                              Mahalo, and Hoppy Birthday!

                              Joe

                              On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:00 AM, nzkpzq <mike@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > "I've just come onto the GADetection scene. Anybody know of books from the
                              > recent decades that approaches the Classics?"
                              >
                              > Crippen & Landru publishes some excellent modern books in Golden Age style:
                              >
                              > Edward D. Hoch - The Velvet Touch
                              > Edward D. Hoch - The Old Spies Club
                              > Edward D. Hoch - More Things Impossible
                              > Jon L. Breen - Kill the Umpire
                              >
                              > Also try:
                              > Paul Halter - The Night of the Wolf
                              >
                              > Mike Grost
                              >
                              > PS Today is 10/10/10 - and my 57th birthday.
                              >
                              >
                              >


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