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M4A4 s/n 21169

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  • spoelstra.geo
    Hi all, Sherman M4A4 s/n 21169 is located in the Netherlands. It s current owner would like to know more about his Sherman s history. Who can help? Best
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
    Hi all,

    Sherman M4A4 s/n 21169 is located in the Netherlands. It's current owner
    would like to know more about his Sherman's history.

    Who can help?

    Best regards,
    Hanno
  • the_shadock
    Hello, this M4A4 was accepted at Chrysler in June, 1943. THis Sherman is most probably ex-British, but we would need few photos to confirm this. The best would
    Message 2 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
      Hello,

      this M4A4 was accepted at Chrysler in June, 1943. THis Sherman is most probably ex-British, but we would need few photos to confirm this. The best would have been to find remains of unit markings or the British T-number, but I konw that the tank has been painted in red by its previous owner, so I'm afraid there is nothing to be found yet.

      Pierre-Olivier
    • spoelstra.geo
      Thanks P-O! Yes, it is painted red, but I m not sure if it has been sandblasted before so there s still chance some remains of markings could be found. Here
      Message 3 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
        Thanks P-O!

        Yes, it is painted red, but I'm not sure if it has been sandblasted before
        so there's still chance some remains of markings could be found. Here are
        some pictures:
        https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/117991639943414379496/albums/5859721358215326929

        The owner, Maurice, just joined our mailing list so he can read & react to
        the postings made here.

        Regards,
        Hanno


        Op Zo, 13 juli, 2014 11:12 am schreef soldat_ryan@... [G104]:
        > Hello,
        >
        >
        > this M4A4 was accepted at Chrysler in June, 1943. THis Sherman is most
        > probably ex-British, but we would need few photos to confirm this. The
        > best would have been to find remains of unit markings or the British
        > T-number, but I konw that the tank has been painted in red by its
        > previous owner, so I'm afraid there is nothing to be found yet.
        >
        > Pierre-Olivier
      • the_shadock
        I can see the fittings for the large box on the vertical rear hull plate, so it confirms that it is a former British tank. We could try to look for : -weld
        Message 4 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
          I can see the fittings for the large box on the vertical rear hull plate, so it confirms that it is a former British tank. We could try to look for :
          -weld scars indicating that fire extinguishers brackets were intalled near the rear lifting rings
          -
          additional towing lugs, fitted for lashing down to landing craft when deep wading trunking is fitted
          (as this item obscured the original towing eyes)
          -
          fittings for additional tracks, that can be installed on the front or sides of the hull

          P-O
        • the_shadock
          it also seems that the interior was painted in silver, which is another indication of its former British career... P-O
          Message 5 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
            it also seems that the interior was painted in silver, which is another indication of its former British career...

            P-O
          • spoelstra.geo
            P-O, Thanks for the pointers. It most likely is ex-British or even more likely ex-Canadian Army. The latter left most of their vehicles in dumps after WW2. The
            Message 6 of 7 , Jul 13, 2014
              P-O,Thanks for the pointers. It most likely is ex-British or even more likely ex-Canadian Army. The latter left most of their vehicles in dumps after WW2. The Netherlands Army used those dumps to rebuild their vehicle inventory. When the Sherman (and Ram) tanks were worn out, a number of them were stripped of interior and running gear to be used as pillboxes. That is what happened to this example, and that is when it got its coat of aluminium paint (the British never repainted the Sherman interiors in silver during WW2, IIRC also not after).Regards, HannoOp 13 jul. 2014 om 22:34 heeft "soldat_ryan@... [G104]" het volgende geschreven:it also seems that the interior was painted in silver, which is another indication of its former British career...P-OPosted by: soldat_ryan@...
            • tankbarrell
              The fittings on the rear hull are not for the stowage box, the lower brackets are the hinges for the air deflector and the upper blocks are used to clip it up
              Message 7 of 7 , Jul 14, 2014
                The fittings on the rear hull are not for the stowage box, the lower brackets are the hinges for the air deflector and the upper blocks are used to clip it up out of the way of the engine doors when doing maintenance. The upper blocks were used for the stowage box but additional lugs, sometimes flat, sometimes angle iron were welded on to the plate to fix the lower ends of the box. These are not on the tank in question.

                There is a trace of what could be the drivers rear view mirror mounting on the right outer glacis but no other British stowage items that you would expect to see.

                The fuel filler caps have been marked P for the main tanks and H for the auxiliary generator. Petrol and Homelite? I've never seen that before.


                -----Original Message-----
                From: HL.Spoelstra@... [G104] <G104@yahoogroups.com>
                To: G104 <G104@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 23:06
                Subject: [G104] Re: M4A4 s/n 21169

                 
                P-O,Thanks for the pointers. It most likely is ex-British or even more likely ex-Canadian Army. The latter left most of their vehicles in dumps after WW2. The Netherlands Army used those dumps to rebuild their vehicle inventory. When the Sherman (and Ram) tanks were worn out, a number of them were stripped of interior and running gear to be used as pillboxes. That is what happened to this example, and that is when it got its coat of aluminium paint (the British never repainted the Sherman interiors in silver during WW2, IIRC also not after).Regards, HannoOp 13 jul. 2014 om 22:34 heeft "soldat_ryan@... [G104]" het volgende geschreven:it also seems that the interior was painted in silver, which is another indication of its former British career...P-OPosted by: soldat_ryan@...
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