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Use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions?

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  • Pierre-Olivier
    Hello, could someone help to find photos or information about the potential use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions? (the M4A1E6 is just like the
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 18, 2012
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      Hello,

      could someone help to find photos or information about the potential use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions? (the M4A1E6 is just like the M4A3E4, but with a small hatch M4A1 hull). All the survivors have been seen with regular 75mm D50878 (low bustle) or D78461 (high bustle) turrets. The 105mm turret has an extra vent at the rear

      thanks

      P-O
    • Kurt Laughlin
      Hi P-O: I think the potential would be very low. The conversion program started with complete, unwanted, 75mm tanks, so I don t think there was a need to use
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 18, 2012
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        Hi P-O:

         

        I think the potential would be very low.  The conversion program started with complete, unwanted, 75mm tanks, so I don’t think there was a need to use turrets from elsewhere.  The Ordnance document describing the program says that the turrets were “Standard 75-mm type with changes to simulate 76-mm type wherever possible, but to provide maximum space for the crew.”   I guess if the plant doing the conversion was simultaneously cannibalizing 105mm tanks for 76mm tank or M74 TRV conversions it could have happened as a mix-up, but that would require too much “if this, if that” for my liking.

         

        KL

         

        From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pierre-Olivier
        Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:47 AM
        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [G104] Use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions?

         

         

        Hello,

        could someone help to find photos or information about the potential use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions? (the M4A1E6 is just like the M4A3E4, but with a small hatch M4A1 hull). All the survivors have been seen with regular 75mm D50878 (low bustle) or D78461 (high bustle) turrets. The 105mm turret has an extra vent at the rear

        thanks

        P-O

      • Pierre-Olivier
        thanks Kurt. Joe DeMarco and me are currently writing something about M4A3E4s and M4A1E6s, that s why I asked. P-O
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 18, 2012
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          thanks Kurt.

          Joe DeMarco and me are currently writing something about M4A3E4s and M4A1E6s, that's why I asked.

          P-O


          --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Laughlin" <kurt.laughlin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi P-O:
          >
          >
          >
          > I think the potential would be very low. The conversion program started
          > with complete, unwanted, 75mm tanks, so I don't think there was a need to
          > use turrets from elsewhere. The Ordnance document describing the program
          > says that the turrets were "Standard 75-mm type with changes to simulate
          > 76-mm type wherever possible, but to provide maximum space for the crew."
          > I guess if the plant doing the conversion was simultaneously cannibalizing
          > 105mm tanks for 76mm tank or M74 TRV conversions it could have happened as a
          > mix-up, but that would require too much "if this, if that" for my liking.
        • Joe DeMarco
          Hi P-O, I asked you to keep an eye out for 105mm turrets based on a couple hints found in period docs. 1. A BMY memo having to do with a Defense Assistance
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 18, 2012
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            Hi P-O, 

             I asked you to keep an eye out for 105mm turrets based on a couple hints found in period docs.

            1. A BMY memo having to do with a Defense Assistance Contract for 413 M4A1 (E6) has "Redesign gun shield & adapt & mount into 105 mm turret."
             
            2. Yugoslavia is said to have received a very generic 583 "M4 Series, 76mm gun" up to Jan 31, 1954. However, an earlier list is more specific when it mentions 100 "Tank Medium M4A3, 105mm Basket type with 76mm gun."
             
            Note that the Ordnance Committee Item that describes the conversions & provides the nomenclature M4A1E6 & M4A3E4, only mentions the use of M4A1(75)VVSS & M4A3(75)(WET)VVSS. I like to try to verify period docs with what can be learned from surviving Shermans. Thanks to Claus in Denmark, we know that some M4A3(105)VVSS hulls were used. I suspect this is because they were abundant & available & not much different from the M4A3(75)W.  Discussing this with Claus, my speculation was that the howitzer turrets were replaced with 75mm turrets because they lacked power traverse. If we can find a few surviving examples with howitzer turrets, I would think they were used towards the end of the program because the supply of 75mm turrets was drying up. If so, one wonders did they have power traverse?
             
            Possible locations - India...Pakistan...Yugo ? 
             
            Joe 
             
             


            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "Pierre-Olivier" <soldat_ryan@...>
            Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:46 AM
            To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [G104] Use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions?

            > Hello,
            >
            >
            could someone help to find photos or information about the potential use of 105mm turrets for M4A3E4 or M4A1E6 conversions? (the M4A1E6 is just like the M4A3E4, but with a small hatch M4A1 hull). All the survivors have been seen with regular 75mm D50878 (low bustle) or D78461 (high bustle) turrets. The 105mm turret has an extra vent at the rear
            >
            > thanks
            >
            >
            P-O
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