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information about M4A3 in Beffe

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  • metalscalemodels
    Hello all, I found some information about the Sherman in Beffe. See also my site about this tank. http://www.shermantank.nl/M4A3(76)W.htm This Sherman is an
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 16, 2012
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      Hello all,

      I found some information about the Sherman in Beffe. See also my site about this tank. http://www.shermantank.nl/M4A3(76)W.htm

      This Sherman is an early Chrysler (Spring 1944) production vehicle. It belonged to the "C" company of 771st tank battalion. In January 1945 C/771st was attachst to 334th infantry regiment of the 84th division. After some research I came to the conclusion that at least the following men must have been on this tank on the 8th of January 1945:

      1. 2nd Lt. Norbert E. Karl, 01996680

      2. t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight, 35152489

      3. Cpl Frank M. Bottini, 39030389

      4. Salvatore DiMartino, 32217118

      5. unknown to me



      During a move from Magoster to Marcourai on the 8th of January 1945, the Sherman was hit by a daisy chain of mines which set the tank on fire. This happened just outside Magoster. On that occasion one person died and three others were injured. The "after-action-report" says that on that day only one person of 771 Tk bn died. His name was Salvatore DiMartino. 2nd Lt. Norbert E. Karl was severely wounded. This is a quote about him which I took from www.world war 2 awards.com: On January 8, 1945, during the Battle of the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), LT Karl was severely wounded near Magoster, Belgium. He received a disability retirement in March 1946. Cpl Frank M. Bottini and t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight were also wounded.

      I'm still searching for the serialnumber /reg. number. I hope this information can lead to something. Hope you can help me whit my search.

      regards,

      Johan Meijer
    • Michael Canaday
      Johan, Thank you for posting this. I don t have any particular information regarding the incident that the tank was lost in, but I am extremely interested in
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 16, 2012
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        Johan,

        Thank you for posting this. I don't have any particular information regarding the incident that the tank was lost in, but I am extremely interested in the engine deck door design. This is the first door I have seen of this configuration. It is similar to the door depicted in the attached drawing.  It is something I have never seen before.

        On your web site you mention that the tank is a spring 1944 production tank. How did you determine that? Are the rear tow lugs intact, if so you may be able to find a serial number there.

        Thanks for posting this information.

        Mike Canaday

        On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:31 PM, metalscalemodels <contact@...> wrote:
         

        Hello all,

        I found some information about the Sherman in Beffe. See also my site about this tank. http://www.shermantank.nl/M4A3(76)W.htm

        This Sherman is an early Chrysler (Spring 1944) production vehicle. It belonged to the "C" company of 771st tank battalion. In January 1945 C/771st was attachst to 334th infantry regiment of the 84th division. After some research I came to the conclusion that at least the following men must have been on this tank on the 8th of January 1945:

        1. 2nd Lt. Norbert E. Karl, 01996680

        2. t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight, 35152489

        3. Cpl Frank M. Bottini, 39030389

        4. Salvatore DiMartino, 32217118

        5. unknown to me

        During a move from Magoster to Marcourai on the 8th of January 1945, the Sherman was hit by a daisy chain of mines which set the tank on fire. This happened just outside Magoster. On that occasion one person died and three others were injured. The "after-action-report" says that on that day only one person of 771 Tk bn died. His name was Salvatore DiMartino. 2nd Lt. Norbert E. Karl was severely wounded. This is a quote about him which I took from www.world war 2 awards.com: On January 8, 1945, during the Battle of the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), LT Karl was severely wounded near Magoster, Belgium. He received a disability retirement in March 1946. Cpl Frank M. Bottini and t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight were also wounded.

        I'm still searching for the serialnumber /reg. number. I hope this information can lead to something. Hope you can help me whit my search.

        regards,

        Johan Meijer


      • Pierre-Olivier
        ... the engine deck doors may come from an M74 TRV. The torsion bar/counterbalanced hinges installed on the engine hatches of this M4A3 are a post-war upgrade
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 16, 2012
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          >I am extremely
          >interested in the engine deck door design. This is the first door I >have seen of this configuration. It is similar to the door depicted in >the attached drawing. It is something I have never seen before.

          the engine deck doors may come from an M74 TRV. The torsion bar/counterbalanced hinges installed on the engine hatches of this M4A3 are a post-war upgrade to make the extremely heavy doors easier to open.

          P-O
        • Joe DeMarco
          Very nice, Johan. Do you know if any of the gentlemen in the crew are still with us? That is an example that is in nearly as built configuration, which is
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 17, 2012
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            Very nice, Johan.

            Do you know if any of the gentlemen in the crew are still with us?

            That is an example that is in nearly "as built" configuration, which is very
            rare for a surviving Sherman.
            This would indicate that "time stopped" - a good clue of a WW II battle
            casualty.
            Did you see any damage that would corroborate that she was "hit by a daisy
            chain of mines" as mentioned in the period doc?

            Other "time stopped" Chrysler M4A3(76)s that are very likely WW II
            casualties would be S/N 43911 in Clervaux, & S/N 44220, the ex dozer in
            Grafenwohr recently reported by Michael L.

            We've discussed the Beffe here in the past. For some reason, no one has
            been able to come up with the tank's serial number.
            While it doesn't have the extra lifting ring on the turret like the Graf,
            you can see the "ghost" of it in the casting.
            I believe that both the Graf & Beffe would have been made with the early
            one-piece rear most engine deck plate like the Clervaux has.
            You can tell that the Beffe was retrofitted with the two-piece plate along
            with the engine access doors taken from an M74.

            Here's wishing you continued success with your research.

            Joe











            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "metalscalemodels" <contact@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:31 PM
            To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [G104] information about M4A3 in Beffe

            > Hello all,
            >
            > I found some information about the Sherman in Beffe. See also my site
            > about this tank. http://www.shermantank.nl/M4A3(76)W.htm
            >
            > This Sherman is an early Chrysler (Spring 1944) production vehicle. It
            > belonged to the "C" company of 771st tank battalion. In January 1945
            > C/771st was attachst to 334th infantry regiment of the 84th division.
            > After some research I came to the conclusion that at least the following
            > men must have been on this tank on the 8th of January 1945:
            >
            > 1. 2nd Lt. Norbert E. Karl, 01996680
            >
            > 2. t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight, 35152489
            >
            > 3. Cpl Frank M. Bottini, 39030389
            >
            > 4. Salvatore DiMartino, 32217118
            >
            > 5. unknown to me
            >
            >
            >
            > During a move from Magoster to Marcourai on the 8th of January 1945, the
            > Sherman was hit by a daisy chain of mines which set the tank on fire. This
            > happened just outside Magoster. On that occasion one person died and three
            > others were injured. The "after-action-report" says that on that day only
            > one person of 771 Tk bn died. His name was Salvatore DiMartino. 2nd Lt.
            > Norbert E. Karl was severely wounded. This is a quote about him which I
            > took from www.world war 2 awards.com: On January 8, 1945, during the
            > Battle of the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge), LT Karl was severely wounded
            > near Magoster, Belgium. He received a disability retirement in March 1946.
            > Cpl Frank M. Bottini and t/sgt Kenneth C. McKnight were also wounded.
            >
            > I'm still searching for the serialnumber /reg. number. I hope this
            > information can lead to something. Hope you can help me whit my search.
            >
            > regards,
            >
            > Johan Meijer
          • Pierre-Olivier
            ... that was the same problem with the M4A3(76) Champagne in Ville sur Illon on France, one has to seriously scratch the paint on the tow lugs with a
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 17, 2012
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              > We've discussed the Beffe here in the past. For some reason, no one has
              > been able to come up with the tank's serial number.

              that was the same problem with the M4A3(76) "Champagne" in Ville sur Illon on France, one has to seriously scratch the paint on the tow lugs with a screwdriver, the SN can't be read without doing this. I'll give it a try. The only problem is that the tank is near a café and people will wonder what I'm doing. The "Champagne' is not in the town and it was easier to scratch the paint without being seen by other people.

              P-O
            • shoelessrunner
              I would guess that the split hatch was made that way to allow the door to clear the stowed boom. The split effectively made the hatch shorter.
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 17, 2012
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                I would guess that the split hatch was made that way to allow the door to clear the stowed boom. The split effectively made the hatch shorter.
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