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Re: Re: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

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  • fleeta@verizon.net
    Hi Michael: This is probably one those M16A1s converted (by BMY) from an APC. (SN 27008 was built by Autocar as an M3A1.) The bodies weren t changed. I have
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 15, 2012
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       Hi Michael:
       
      This is probably one those M16A1s converted (by BMY) from an APC.  (SN 27008 was built by Autocar as an M3A1.)  The bodies weren't changed.  I have some photos of several in INANG service that were converted froman M15A1 37mm/ cal. .50 AA vehicle.  I that case it they used M3 APC body panels to build it up because the M15A1 had an open rear deck with a large turret.
       
      KL
      On 07/14/12, Michael Lembo<opfor2nd@...> wrote:
       
       

      M16?? AA Halftrack serial number 27008 (body is not AA, but data plate claims M16) rebuilt 4-52
       
       
       
       
    • Joe DeMarco
      ... I m not sure which one you are asking about, but the other foundry that cast upper hulls was Continental Steel. Their logo was cast into the firewall along
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 15, 2012
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        >what was the company that did the Hohenfels one?
         
        I'm not sure which one you are asking about, but the other foundry that cast upper hulls was Continental Steel.
        Their logo was cast into the firewall along with the hull casting's (Part No. E8595) serial number (SER).
        Most examples recorded show a "C" (or circle) with a "W" inside, indicating their plant in Wheeling, WV.
        Just guessing based on "counting heads" that the serial numbers on Continental hull castings refer to the total number of upper hulls they made both small & big hatch, whereas General Steel appears to have started over at S/N 1 when they made the switch.
         
        Pittsburgh Steel Foundry is also stated to have cast M4A1 upper hulls, possibly just small hatch, but the few of us who look for such trivia have not been able to verify a surviving example.  
         
        >The turret no. is 2169
         
        As mentioned earlier, the highest Union Steel turret serial number I have seen in a WW II photo appears to be in the 216x range.
        Someone asked about the numbers 1 or 2 seen above or below the turret S/N.
        Again, just guessing that Union Steel used two turret molds; however the serial numbers do NOT overlap.
        That is, there was only one turret 2169, & it was made using mold 2.
        Hunnicutt has it that Pressed Steel changed to the oval loader's hatch at tank 1250.
        That seems to check out counting heads-wise.
        Just from recording US turret S/Ns, it would appear that mold 2 "went oval" in the 10xx range whereas mold 1 switched over in the 13xx range.
        Thus, you might encounter a split hatch US turret with a higher serial number than an oval.
         
         
        France received a small number of M4A1(76)s directly from US stocks in the ETO.
        Then they got about one third of the entire M4A1(76) production as MDAP.
        I doubt if it would be possible to distinguish between them at this late date, but if you were to come across, say, M4A1(76) S/N 52337, that would be one that the French First Army is said to have received in Feb, 1945.
         
        I don't think we can assume that the remanufactured M4A1(76)s have their original turrets.
        York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY plant to save wear on their roads.
        (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)
         
        FWIW, here's a shot of turret 2163 on an unidentified M4A1(76)HVSS in Boalsburg, Pa.
         
        If you ever have a chance, check the front bumpers on the passenger side on the M16 series HTs you saw.
        Just from talking with the Half Track guys, I suspect that almost the entire postwar US inventory of the long (M3-ish) HTs were converted to M16A1 in the early 50s, at which time the USA Number was stamped into the front bumper.  I've attached a couple pix that an owner marked up to show other owners where to look.
        That one had an interesting evolution, in that the Reg Number "says" it was originally built as a T48 (57mm) GMC.
        Being unwanted by the Brits, it was later converted to M3A1, & accepted as a new HT.
        You can see he has it as an M3A1, but he found M16 "clues" on it, so it was one of the ones converted.  
         
        For HT serial numbers, the frame behind the driver's side front wheel is the equivalent of the rear towing lugs on many Shermans.
         
        For instance, if 27008 is what is stamped in the Ord Serial Number box on the M16 dataplate, you should find "M3-27008"  stamped into the frame, & 4025269 stamped into the bumper on that one, indicating originally an Autocar M3.
         
        Joe
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         

        Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 3:52 PM
        Subject: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

        Joe,
             I was in Schweinfurt today to get data off all the vehicles there before they close it down and think about scrapping things again.  There is an M4A1(76), photo attached. The upper hull casting is not General Steel (what was the company that did the Hohenfels one?)  Like the Hohenfels one, it has no casting date, just a serial number and a heat treatment serial number next to that.  I removed paint for awhile looking for a build number on both sides of the rear hull or a serial no. on the transmission housing, but there is just too much paint on it right now.  I had 26 vehicles to find and collect info from, so I could not spend too much time on paint scraping. It just would not quit raining for longer than 15 minutes at a time, so the normally dirty job of escape hatch diving was alot worse today.  I will be back there though.  The turret no. is 2169.  I checked the data plate and mounting plate, data plate is gone, nothing readable on the mounting plate. It isn't rusted out like the one in Hohenfels, I scraped white paint off for awhile, but nothing was showing through.  I will probably have to come back with some thinner or sandpaper and see if I can get all the white paint off the data plate mounting point.  There are lots of old markings visible under the peeling paint on all the displayed vehicles up there. They are doing a really atrocious job of maintaining that stuff.  Most of the displays look like the last time they were painted must have been in 1995 or 96 when 3rd Inf.Div. was reflagged 1st Inf.Div. The old 3rd ID patches painted on before are showing through again.  There is enough brown, tan, green & black paint showing on the M4A1 to know it was once painted woodland camouflage. Maybe someone has some old photos of it?  I think it has probably been there since at least the '70s. 
         
           I found 21 of the supposed 26 historical displays that are up there, the other 5 might actually be in Bamberg, but I had no time to get there also today. For anyone else keeping track of other surviving vehicles, here is the list of what is on the two posts in Schweinfurt:
         
        Conn Barracks:
         
        M24 Chaffee serial number 78
        M24 Chaffee serial number 88
        M26 Pershing serial number 1097
        M47 serial number 394
        M47 serial number 8110
        M2 Halftrack serial number ???
        M16A2 AA Halftrack serial number 1594 rebuilt 7-52
        M16?? AA Halftrack serial number 27008 (body is not AA, but data plate claims M16) rebuilt 4-52
        M6 57mm Anti-tank gun serial number 4622 Yoder Co. 1943
        Russian ZIS 76.2mm gun
        75mm Pack Howitzer
        M59 APC
        and of course the M4A1 mentioned above
         
        Ledward Barracks:
         
        M24 Chaffee serial number 2113
        M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle
        M101 105mm Howitzer, Built 1953 rebuilt 1972
        M101 105mm Howitzer, Built ?? rebuilt 1971
        155mm Long Tom serial number 3142, built 1944
        M3A1 Scout Car serial number ???
        M16 AA Halftrack serial number 293610 (probable)
        M74 ARV Serial number 466  (I will be sending out a separate email about this one, since it is a Sherman variant)
         
         
        Michael
         
         
         
         
         
         
      • Michael Lembo
        Hi Joe,    The Schweinfurt M4A1 has the Continental Steel upper hull.  The markings are as you describe, the serial number is 411? (I missed the last number
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 15, 2012
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          Hi Joe,
             The Schweinfurt M4A1 has the Continental Steel upper hull.  The markings are as you describe, the serial number is 411? (I missed the last number with the camera).  It has the Wheeling logo and HT serial number 3610. The one in Hohenfels is Ser 2764 with HT 3987
           
             I checked behind the driver side front wheel on all the halftracks, but most have too much paint there, same with the bumpers. The only one readable was the M16 serial number 293810.  Yesterday was just a preliminary visit to get an idea of what is there and make recommendations on what to keep and what can be DRMO disposed of.  I did not have time to scrape paint on everything and even forgot to get photos of some details that I remembered I wanted only about an hour down the Autobahn on the way home. So a second trip is definitely planned.
           
          Michael

          From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

           
          >what was the company that did the Hohenfels one?
           
          I'm not sure which one you are asking about, but the other foundry that cast upper hulls was Continental Steel.
          Their logo was cast into the firewall along with the hull casting's (Part No. E8595) serial number (SER).
          Most examples recorded show a "C" (or circle) with a "W" inside, indicating their plant in Wheeling, WV.
          Just guessing based on "counting heads" that the serial numbers on Continental hull castings refer to the total number of upper hulls they made both small & big hatch, whereas General Steel appears to have started over at S/N 1 when they made the switch.
           
          Pittsburgh Steel Foundry is also stated to have cast M4A1 upper hulls, possibly just small hatch, but the few of us who look for such trivia have not been able to verify a surviving example.  
           
          >The turret no. is 2169
           
          As mentioned earlier, the highest Union Steel turret serial number I have seen in a WW II photo appears to be in the 216x range.
          Someone asked about the numbers 1 or 2 seen above or below the turret S/N.
          Again, just guessing that Union Steel used two turret molds; however the serial numbers do NOT overlap.
          That is, there was only one turret 2169, & it was made using mold 2.
          Hunnicutt has it that Pressed Steel changed to the oval loader's hatch at tank 1250.
          That seems to check out counting heads-wise.
          Just from recording US turret S/Ns, it would appear that mold 2 "went oval" in the 10xx range whereas mold 1 switched over in the 13xx range.
          Thus, you might encounter a split hatch US turret with a higher serial number than an oval.
           
           
          France received a small number of M4A1(76)s directly from US stocks in the ETO.
          Then they got about one third of the entire M4A1(76) production as MDAP.
          I doubt if it would be possible to distinguish between them at this late date, but if you were to come across, say, M4A1(76) S/N 52337, that would be one that the French First Army is said to have received in Feb, 1945.
           
          I don't think we can assume that the remanufactured M4A1(76)s have their original turrets.
          York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY plant to save wear on their roads.
          (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)
           
          FWIW, here's a shot of turret 2163 on an unidentified M4A1(76)HVSS in Boalsburg, Pa.
           
          If you ever have a chance, check the front bumpers on the passenger side on the M16 series HTs you saw.
          Just from talking with the Half Track guys, I suspect that almost the entire postwar US inventory of the long (M3-ish) HTs were converted to M16A1 in the early 50s, at which time the USA Number was stamped into the front bumper.  I've attached a couple pix that an owner marked up to show other owners where to look.
          That one had an interesting evolution, in that the Reg Number "says" it was originally built as a T48 (57mm) GMC.
          Being unwanted by the Brits, it was later converted to M3A1, & accepted as a new HT.
          You can see he has it as an M3A1, but he found M16 "clues" on it, so it was one of the ones converted.  
           
          For HT serial numbers, the frame behind the driver's side front wheel is the equivalent of the rear towing lugs on many Shermans.
           
          For instance, if 27008 is what is stamped in the Ord Serial Number box on the M16 dataplate, you should find "M3-27008"  stamped into the frame, & 4025269 stamped into the bumper on that one, indicating originally an Autocar M3.
           
          Joe
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           

          Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 3:52 PM
          Subject: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

          Joe,
               I was in Schweinfurt today to get data off all the vehicles there before they close it down and think about scrapping things again.  There is an M4A1(76), photo attached. The upper hull casting is not General Steel (what was the company that did the Hohenfels one?)  Like the Hohenfels one, it has no casting date, just a serial number and a heat treatment serial number next to that.  I removed paint for awhile looking for a build number on both sides of the rear hull or a serial no. on the transmission housing, but there is just too much paint on it right now.  I had 26 vehicles to find and collect info from, so I could not spend too much time on paint scraping. It just would not quit raining for longer than 15 minutes at a time, so the normally dirty job of escape hatch diving was alot worse today.  I will be back there though.  The turret no. is 2169.  I checked the data plate and mounting plate, data plate is gone, nothing readable on the mounting plate. It isn't rusted out like the one in Hohenfels, I scraped white paint off for awhile, but nothing was showing through.  I will probably have to come back with some thinner or sandpaper and see if I can get all the white paint off the data plate mounting point.  There are lots of old markings visible under the peeling paint on all the displayed vehicles up there. They are doing a really atrocious job of maintaining that stuff.  Most of the displays look like the last time they were painted must have been in 1995 or 96 when 3rd Inf.Div. was reflagged 1st Inf.Div. The old 3rd ID patches painted on before are showing through again.  There is enough brown, tan, green & black paint showing on the M4A1 to know it was once painted woodland camouflage. Maybe someone has some old photos of it?  I think it has probably been there since at least the '70s. 
           
             I found 21 of the supposed 26 historical displays that are up there, the other 5 might actually be in Bamberg, but I had no time to get there also today. For anyone else keeping track of other surviving vehicles, here is the list of what is on the two posts in Schweinfurt:
           
          Conn Barracks:
           
          M24 Chaffee serial number 78
          M24 Chaffee serial number 88
          M26 Pershing serial number 1097
          M47 serial number 394
          M47 serial number 8110
          M2 Halftrack serial number ???
          M16A2 AA Halftrack serial number 1594 rebuilt 7-52
          M16?? AA Halftrack serial number 27008 (body is not AA, but data plate claims M16) rebuilt 4-52
          M6 57mm Anti-tank gun serial number 4622 Yoder Co. 1943
          Russian ZIS 76.2mm gun
          75mm Pack Howitzer
          M59 APC
          and of course the M4A1 mentioned above
           
          Ledward Barracks:
           
          M24 Chaffee serial number 2113
          M728 Combat Engineer Vehicle
          M101 105mm Howitzer, Built 1953 rebuilt 1972
          M101 105mm Howitzer, Built ?? rebuilt 1971
          155mm Long Tom serial number 3142, built 1944
          M3A1 Scout Car serial number ???
          M16 AA Halftrack serial number 293610 (probable)
          M74 ARV Serial number 466  (I will be sending out a separate email about this one, since it is a Sherman variant)
           
           
          Michael
           
           
           
           
           
           


        • JEFF HAIN-MATSON
          Joe DeMarco WROTE: York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY plant to save wear on their roads. (I have a SC photo somewhere in
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 15, 2012
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            Joe DeMarco WROTE:

            "York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY
            plant to save wear on their roads.
            (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)"

            Interesting.....

            As a 48 year resident of York that is VERY interesting information above. In
            talking to people over the years they remember late war / post war lots of
            Sherman's and half tracks coming to BMY York via RAIL to what used to be
            called BAIRS SIDING, PA (Home of BMY York). This material was in used, ready
            to overhaul condition for the most part, some of it was even battle damaged
            according to some eye witnesses. There is in fact a rail siding off the main
            track at the plant, and I have had the impression from talking to people
            that it has been that way for a very, very long time!!! The track runs
            further south to Spring Grove, home of PH Glatfelter Paper, and then to
            Hanover Pa, home to many shoe factories when we still made things in the
            USA, and from there to Gettysburg PA.

            My point here is there was NO reason for these tanks to ever leave a rail
            car and travel by road to get to BMY..... So a very interesting statement!!

            I wonder if somebody embellished a photo caption to make sense of a tank
            with no turret going to BMY York????


            https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=&ie=UTF-8&q=RAILROAD+SPRING+GROVE+PA&fb=1&gl
            =us&hq=RAILROAD&hnear=0x89c85f868ae4a03b:0x2c194ee072404272,Spring+Grove,+PA
            &ei=WVQDUPSKFaTK6wHg-oSKBw&ved=0CLwBELYD&oi=local_group&iwloc=cids:255488344
            5633816991

            Center of link above should show BAE Systems, Ground Systems Div in the
            center of the photo. They are the current owner of BMY York. If you zoom in,
            you should see the track, and for entertainment, the speed test track runs
            right along the track. Back in the day of the M109 (mid 1980's the test
            drivers used to scare the RR guys by hot Roding up and down the track and
            looking like they were out of control when spinning a 180 Deg turn on a
            steel plate at the far end. RR guys said it looked like the tank was going
            to hit the train!!!


            -----------------------------------

            JEFF HAIN-MATSON
            WRIGHTSVILLE PA
            717-252-4489 VOICE
            717-252-4499 FAX
            jeff@... <mailto:flmv@...> E-MAIL
            MVPA #1833
            IMPS #1726
            MVT #9362
          • JEFF HAIN-MATSON
            URL SHORTENED AND FIXED. _____ From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JEFF HAIN-MATSON Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:01 PM To:
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 16, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              URL SHORTENED AND FIXED.


              From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JEFF HAIN-MATSON
              Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:01 PM
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

               

              Joe DeMarco WROTE:

              "York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY
              plant to save wear on their roads.
              (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)"

              Interesting.....

              As a 48 year resident of York that is VERY interesting information above. In
              talking to people over the years they remember late war / post war lots of
              Sherman's and half tracks coming to BMY York via RAIL to what used to be
              called BAIRS SIDING, PA (Home of BMY York). This material was in used, ready
              to overhaul condition for the most part, some of it was even battle damaged
              according to some eye witnesses. There is in fact a rail siding off the main
              track at the plant, and I have had the impression from talking to people
              that it has been that way for a very, very long time!!! The track runs
              further south to Spring Grove, home of PH Glatfelter Paper, and then to
              Hanover Pa, home to many shoe factories when we still made things in the
              USA, and from there to Gettysburg PA.

              My point here is there was NO reason for these tanks to ever leave a rail
              car and travel by road to get to BMY..... So a very interesting statement!!

              I wonder if somebody embellished a photo caption to make sense of a tank
              with no turret going to BMY York????

              http://tinyurl.com/crsuch3

               
              Center of link above should show BAE Systems, Ground Systems Div in the
              center of the photo. They are the current owner of BMY York. If you zoom in,
              you should see the track, and for entertainment, the speed test track runs
              right along the track. Back in the day of the M109 (mid 1980's the test
              drivers used to scare the RR guys by hot Roding up and down the track and
              looking like they were out of control when spinning a 180 Deg turn on a
              steel plate at the far end. RR guys said it looked like the tank was going
              to hit the train!!!


              -----------------------------------

              JEFF HAIN-MATSON
              WRIGHTSVILLE PA
              717-252-4489 VOICE
              717-252-4499 FAX
              jeff@... <mailto:flmv@...> E-MAIL
              MVPA #1833
              IMPS #1726
              MVT #9362

            • Trent Telenko
              Jeff There was a shortage of flat bed rail cars capable of carrying tanks after the surrender of Germany and before the surrender of Japan.   There were many
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 16, 2012
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                Jeff
                 
                There was a shortage of flat bed rail cars capable of carrying tanks after the surrender of Germany and before the surrender of Japan.
                 
                There were many reasons for this starting with the fact that rail cars for Domestic use were not built during WW2, so as to use many of the rail facilities for wartime armored vehicle production, lend lease rail rolling stock to Russia & the UK, and to rebuild the French rail system in 1944-45 after the Normandy campaign.
                 
                Additional reasons included the fact that the trip from Detroit to West Coast ports of embarcation was three times as long as going to the East Coast, plus the latest production M4A3 & M4A1's were enough heavier such that they had to travel one per rail car versus two per car of earlier Shermans.
                 
                See Page 58 of "Tanks are Mighty Fine Things"

                ...Troop movements were eating up more and more of the

                railroads overworked rolling stock. Ordnance ruled out

                36, 37 and 38-foot flat cars for medium tanks. For

                Sherman types, 40 and 42-foot car's were specified.

                Two M3 tanks had be on loaded on a 42-foot car, but

                every Sherman claimed a car to itself except when an

                infrequent 50-foot car turned up.

                 

                The Pershing, just around the corner now, would

                take a car with a minimum load limit of 118,000

                pounds, eliminating many more.

                 

                and page 59-60

                http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1945/46Tanks/Page059.htm

                http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1945/46Tanks/Page060.htm

                 

                By the summer of 1945, when the Army was being
                deployed from Europe to the Pacific and new tanks
                were moving westward with them, the congestion
                would have beelt truly serious if tank production had
                not fallen greatly by then. Flat cars which had made
                the round trip from Detroit to an Alantic port in
                eight days normally were 26 to 30 days in reaching the
                West Coast and returning.

                 
                The late 1945 report that tanks were driven off rail cars and run into the plant, to avoid protracted rail car debarkation congestion  pressures at the now BMY York facility, is exactly what you would expect to see given the above.


                From: JEFF HAIN-MATSON <jeff@...>
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, July 15, 2012 7:01:27 PM
                Subject: RE: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

                 

                Joe DeMarco WROTE:

                "York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY
                plant to save wear on their roads.
                (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)"

                Interesting.....

                As a 48 year resident of York that is VERY interesting information above. In
                talking to people over the years they remember late war / post war lots of
                Sherman's and half tracks coming to BMY York via RAIL to what used to be
                called BAIRS SIDING, PA (Home of BMY York). This material was in used, ready
                to overhaul condition for the most part, some of it was even battle damaged
                according to some eye witnesses. There is in fact a rail siding off the main
                track at the plant, and I have had the impression from talking to people
                that it has been that way for a very, very long time!!! The track runs
                further south to Spring Grove, home of PH Glatfelter Paper, and then to
                Hanover Pa, home to many shoe factories when we still made things in the
                USA, and from there to Gettysburg PA.

                My point here is there was NO reason for these tanks to ever leave a rail
                car and travel by road to get to BMY..... So a very interesting statement!!

                I wonder if somebody embellished a photo caption to make sense of a tank
                with no turret going to BMY York????

                https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=&ie=UTF-8&q=RAILROAD+SPRING+GROVE+PA&fb=1&gl
                =us&hq=RAILROAD&hnear=0x89c85f868ae4a03b:0x2c194ee072404272,Spring+Grove,+PA
                &ei=WVQDUPSKFaTK6wHg-oSKBw&ved=0CLwBELYD&oi=local_group&iwloc=cids:255488344
                5633816991

                Center of link above should show BAE Systems, Ground Systems Div in the
                center of the photo. They are the current owner of BMY York. If you zoom in,
                you should see the track, and for entertainment, the speed test track runs
                right along the track. Back in the day of the M109 (mid 1980's the test
                drivers used to scare the RR guys by hot Roding up and down the track and
                looking like they were out of control when spinning a 180 Deg turn on a
                steel plate at the far end. RR guys said it looked like the tank was going
                to hit the train!!!


                -----------------------------------

                JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                717-252-4489 VOICE
                717-252-4499 FAX
                jeff@... <mailto:flmv@...> E-MAIL
                MVPA #1833
                IMPS #1726
                MVT #9362

              • JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                My old, heat addled brain kept thinking something was off in my original post - So I got to the bottom of that nagging feeling: 1. BMY is in what was called
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 19, 2012
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                  My old, heat addled brain kept thinking something was "off" in my original post - So I got to the bottom of that nagging feeling:
                   
                  1. BMY is in what was called BAIR STATION PA, not Bairs Siding PA......
                   
                  2. BMY came to York in 1948 according to the local newspaper, so again, driving on the roads to free up flat cars makes no sense!!! (unless there was yet another shortage of rail cars during the Korean Police Action.)
                   
                  3. In 1951 Bowen-McLaughlin, Inc.,  rented a hanger in Galveston TX at the former Hitchcock Naval Air Station to rebuild tanks and Halftracks, further confusing the issue!
                   

                  -----------------------------------

                  JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                  WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                  717-252-4489 VOICE
                  717-252-4499 FAX
                  jeff@...    E-MAIL
                  MVPA #1833
                  IMPS #1726
                  MVT #9362

                   


                  From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                  Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:20 AM
                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

                   

                  URL SHORTENED AND FIXED.


                  From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                  Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:01 PM
                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [G104] Schweinfurt M4A1(76)

                   

                  Joe DeMarco WROTE:

                  "York County, Pa. asked them to ship the tanks without turrets to the BMY
                  plant to save wear on their roads.
                  (I have a SC photo somewhere in my mess that shows that.)"

                  Interesting.....

                  As a 48 year resident of York that is VERY interesting information above. In
                  talking to people over the years they remember late war / post war lots of
                  Sherman's and half tracks coming to BMY York via RAIL to what used to be
                  called BAIRS SIDING, PA (Home of BMY York). This material was in used, ready
                  to overhaul condition for the most part, some of it was even battle damaged
                  according to some eye witnesses. There is in fact a rail siding off the main
                  track at the plant, and I have had the impression from talking to people
                  that it has been that way for a very, very long time!!! The track runs
                  further south to Spring Grove, home of PH Glatfelter Paper, and then to
                  Hanover Pa, home to many shoe factories when we still made things in the
                  USA, and from there to Gettysburg PA.

                  My point here is there was NO reason for these tanks to ever leave a rail
                  car and travel by road to get to BMY..... So a very interesting statement!!

                  I wonder if somebody embellished a photo caption to make sense of a tank
                  with no turret going to BMY York????

                  http://tinyurl.com/crsuch3


                  Center of link above should show BAE Systems, Ground Systems Div in the
                  center of the photo. They are the current owner of BMY York. If you zoom in,
                  you should see the track, and for entertainment, the speed test track runs
                  right along the track. Back in the day of the M109 (mid 1980's the test
                  drivers used to scare the RR guys by hot Roding up and down the track and
                  looking like they were out of control when spinning a 180 Deg turn on a
                  steel plate at the far end. RR guys said it looked like the tank was going
                  to hit the train!!!


                  -----------------------------------

                  JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                  WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                  717-252-4489 VOICE
                  717-252-4499 FAX
                  jeff@... <mailto:flmv@...> E-MAIL
                  MVPA #1833
                  IMPS #1726
                  MVT #9362

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