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Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

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  • Trent Telenko
    Joe, Steve Zaloga is putting together a WW2 American flame tank book for Osprey. Steve made a visit to the RG175 files at NARA and got a bunch of stuff on the
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 22, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Joe,
       
      Steve Zaloga is putting together a WW2 American flame tank book for Osprey.
       
      Steve made a visit to the RG175 files at NARA and got a bunch of stuff on the Hawaii flame thrower group that put together the Iwo jima and Okinawa Sherman flame tanks.
       
      I think I have sent you the attached already, but FYI if not.


      From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
      To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, March 21, 2012 11:47:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

       

      Watchman, did your Dad take any photos? Did he or the other vet ever mention
      using the firehose attachment in combat?

      Joe

      --------------------------------------------------
      From: "watchman662000" <watchman662000@...>
      Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:12 AM
      To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

      > Thanks for bringing the NYMAS site to our attention. I did listen to the
      > podcast, during which I noted some information gaps, due to a lack of
      > firsthand accounts. Major Rinquist was therefore very interested to hear
      > that my father, a member of the 713th Tank Battalion (Flamethrower)is
      > still among us. The Major will be interviewing my father to possibly fill
      > in the information they lack. I'm hoping another surviving member of A
      > company, with whom I am in contact, will be interested in being
      > interviewed as well.
      >
      > --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Digital recordings of the talk's audio will be on the NYMAS web site
      >> after the
      >> talk is given.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >> From: Mike Davino <mdavino@...>
      >> To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Fri, February 10, 2012 9:17:33 AM
      >>
      Subject: Re: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
      >>
      >> Â
      >> According to the NYMAS website, "NYMAS talks are free and open to the
      >> public."
      >>
      >> I made a presentation at one several years ago about US Central Command's
      >> role
      >> in the Global War on Terrorism when I was still on active duty. It was
      >> a
      >> quite diverse audience.
      >>
      >>
      >> Mike D
      >>
      >> --- On Fri, 2/10/12, spideytank@... <spideytank@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> >From: spideytank@... <spideytank@...>
      >> >Subject: Re: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
      >> >To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      >> >Date: Friday, February 10, 2012, 6:14
      AM
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >Â
      >> >Do you know if you need to be invited to attend?
      >> >
      >> >In a message dated 2/10/2012 2:56:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      >> >mdavino@... writes:
      >> >Â
      >> >>In case anyone has trouble opening that URL, here is the text of the
      >> >>announcement:
      >> >>
      >> >>Friday eveningtalk
      >> >>February 17, 2012
      >> >>7 pm to 8:45 pm
      >> >>Flamethrower
      >> >>Tanks and Doctrine in
      >> >>WWII Technology
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>Major John P. Ringquist
      >> >>United States Military Academy
      >> >>at West Point
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>--- On
      Fri, 2/10/12, Mike Davino <mdavino@...> wrote:
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>>From: Mike Davino <mdavino@...>
      >> >>>Subject: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
      >> >>>To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      >> >>>Date: Friday, February 10, 2012, 2:47 AM
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>>Â
      >> >>>For those on the group who will be in the New York City area next
      >> >>>week, this
      >> >>>presentation may be of interest:
      >> >>>
      >> >>>http://nymas.org/
      >> >>>
      >> >>>Mike D
      >> >>>
      >> >>>
      >> >>The Soldiers Sailors Club
      >> >>283 Lexington Avenue
      >> >>(between 36th and 37th Streets)
      >> >>New York City


    • Joe DeMarco
      Thanks, Trent, you had sent the pix. The 713th TB AAR is very well written, compared to many of the others. The first use of the fire hose appears to have
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 23, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks, Trent, you had sent the pix.
         
        The 713th TB AAR is very well written, compared to many of the others. The first use of the "fire hose" appears to have been on May 22nd by C Co. The Infantry operator was wounded, so the action seems to have been unsuccessful. There are 5 other instances of its use reported. All C Co except an unsuccessful attempt by B Co on June 19th. I've attached the June 19th file where it is reported that Sgt Boughan was drenched with Napalm from a badly leaking hose, but continued to use it until the fuel ran out.
        It's mentioned that the 713th was not equipped with Infantry phones, & that they completely removed the wading gear, so the absence of those items might help to ID their Shermans in period photos. At least one of their tanks had a dozer blade. I assume the real high Speed Numbers in a different "font" indicate C Co, even though they don't make any sense with just 54 tanks. Perhaps they were taken from other units training in Hawaii, & there was no time to renumber them? There is nothing in the records about the little platforms seen on the rear sponsons of some of their tanks. Did they have anything to do with the hose?  It's noted that on May 22, Lt Butner brought up a tank that had been uparmored by Ordnance, & they were curious to see how the extra weight would perform in the terrain, but no further mention of it. "The" tank recovery vehicle is noted to have been used, which suggests they only had one. The commander recommended using M4A3s, more armor, & a 75mm main gun along with the flame unit on future tanks, including the M26, if they were to be issued. 10 Army HQ did not concur about the main gun saying it would be a distraction. In the event, the POA CWS did produce 70 H5s according to Hunnicutt, & there are a few surviving examples here in the US.
         
        I couldn't cross reference the well known Signal Corps photo attached with the AAR. It is stamped June 23, but that doesn't mean it was taken on that date. Speed Number 20 can be seen to be Tank A-11. There are 4 M4(105)HVSS in the front. The 711th Tank Bn had some of those. The one to the right with Speed No 25 was named "Big Shot."  I was able to cross reference the M4A3(75)W on the far right. Speed No 43 was with C Co of the 711th, named "China Clipper" USA 3082598.
         
        Watchman (Rick?), please thank your dad for his service.
         
        Joe
         
         
         
         
         

        Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:39 PM
        Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

        Joe,
         
        Steve Zaloga is putting together a WW2 American flame tank book for Osprey.
         
        Steve made a visit to the RG175 files at NARA and got a bunch of stuff on the Hawaii flame thrower group that put together the Iwo jima and Okinawa Sherman flame tanks.
         
        I think I have sent you the attached already, but FYI if not.


        From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, March 21, 2012 11:47:53 AM
        Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

         

        Watchman, did your Dad take any photos? Did he or the other vet ever mention
        using the firehose attachment in combat?

        Joe

        --------------------------------------------------
        From: "watchman662000" <watchman662000@...>
        Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:12 AM
        To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

        > Thanks
        for bringing the NYMAS site to our attention. I did listen to the
        >
        podcast, during which I noted some information gaps, due to a lack of
        >
        firsthand accounts. Major Rinquist was therefore very interested to hear
        > that my father, a member of the 713th Tank Battalion (Flamethrower)is
        > still among us. The Major will be interviewing my father to possibly
        fill
        > in the information they lack. I'm hoping another surviving member
        of A
        > company, with whom I am in contact, will be interested in being
        > interviewed as well.
        >
        > --- In
        href="mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com">G104@yahoogroups.com, Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Digital recordings of
        the talk's audio will be on the NYMAS web site
        >> after
        the
        >> talk is
        given.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        ________________________________
        >> From: Mike Davino
        <mdavino@...>
        >> To:
        rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com">G104@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        Sent: Fri, February 10, 2012 9:17:33 AM
        >> Subject: Re: [G104]
        Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
        >>
        >>
        Â
        >> According to the NYMAS website, "NYMAS talks are free and open to
        the
        >> public."
        >>
        >> I made a presentation at one
        several years ago about US Central Command's
        >> role
        >> in
        the Global War on Terrorism when I was still on active duty. It was
        >> a
        >> quite diverse
        audience.
        >>
        >>
        >> Mike
        D
        >>

      • Trent Telenko
        Joe, The 713th AAR is not actually a complete after action report for the whole battalion. The commanding Captain of B company,  713th FTB, filed a
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 27, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Joe,
           
          The 713th AAR is not actually a complete after action report for the whole battalion.
           
          The commanding Captain of "B" company,  713th FTB, filed a seperate AAR report for his actions with the Marines inside the tank annex for the 1st Marine Division.
           
          I have attached the relevent section of that document, plus the 10th Army Directive #14 (dtd 05 Feb 1945) establishing the table of organization for the 713th FTB, to this e-mail.
           

           


          From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, March 23, 2012 12:50:48 PM
          Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

           

          Thanks, Trent, you had sent the pix.
           
          The 713th TB AAR is very well written, compared to many of the others. The first use of the "fire hose" appears to have been on May 22nd by C Co. The Infantry operator was wounded, so the action seems to have been unsuccessful. There are 5 other instances of its use reported. All C Co except an unsuccessful attempt by B Co on June 19th. I've attached the June 19th file where it is reported that Sgt Boughan was drenched with Napalm from a badly leaking hose, but continued to use it until the fuel ran out.
           
          It's mentioned that the 713th was not equipped with Infantry phones, & that they completely removed the wading gear, so the absence of those items might help to ID their Shermans in period photos. At least one of their tanks had a dozer blade. I assume the real high Speed Numbers in a different "font" indicate C Co, even though they don't make any sense with just 54 tanks. Perhaps they were taken from other units training in Hawaii, & there was no time to renumber them? There is nothing in the records about the little platforms seen on the rear sponsons of some of their tanks. Did they have anything to do with the hose?  It's noted that on May 22, Lt Butner brought up a tank that had been uparmored by Ordnance, & they were curious to see how the extra weight would perform in the terrain, but no further mention of it. "The" tank recovery vehicle is noted to have been used, which suggests they only had one. The commander recommended using M4A3s, more armor, & a 75mm main gun along with the flame unit on future tanks, including the M26, if they were to be issued. 10 Army HQ did not concur about the main gun saying it would be a distraction. In the event, the POA CWS did produce 70 H5s according to Hunnicutt, & there are a few surviving examples here in the US.
           
          I couldn't cross reference the well known Signal Corps photo attached with the AAR. It is stamped June 23, but that doesn't mean it was taken on that date. Speed Number 20 can be seen to be Tank A-11. There are 4 M4(105)HVSS in the front. The 711th Tank Bn had some of those. The one to the right with Speed No 25 was named "Big Shot."  I was able to cross reference the M4A3(75)W on the far right. Speed No 43 was with C Co of the 711th, named "China Clipper" USA 3082598.
           
          Watchman (Rick?), please thank your dad for his service.
           
          Joe
           
           
           
           
           

          Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

          Joe,
           
          Steve Zaloga is putting together a WW2 American flame tank book for Osprey.
           
          Steve made a visit to the RG175 files at NARA and got a bunch of stuff on the Hawaii flame thrower group that put together the Iwo jima and Okinawa Sherman flame tanks.
           
          I think I have sent you the attached already, but FYI if not.


          From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, March 21, 2012 11:47:53 AM
          Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

           

          Watchman, did your Dad take any photos? Did he or the other vet ever mention
          using the firehose attachment in combat?

          Joe

          --------------------------------------------------
          From: "watchman662000" <watchman662000@...>
          Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:12 AM
          To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

          > Thanks for bringing the NYMAS site to our attention. I did listen to the
          > podcast, during which I noted some information gaps, due to a lack of
          > firsthand accounts. Major Rinquist was therefore very interested to hear
          > that my father, a member of the 713th Tank Battalion (Flamethrower)is
          > still among us. The Major will be interviewing my father to possibly fill
          > in the information they lack. I'm hoping another surviving member of A
          > company, with whom I am in contact, will be interested in being
          > interviewed as well.
          >
          > --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Digital recordings of the talk's audio will be on the NYMAS web site
          >> after the
          >> talk is given.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ________________________________
          >> From: Mike Davino <mdavino@...>
          >> To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          >> Sent: Fri, February 10, 2012 9:17:33 AM
          >>
          Subject: Re: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
          >>
          >> Â
          >> According to the NYMAS website, "NYMAS talks are free and open to the
          >> public."
          >>
          >> I made a presentation at one several years ago about US Central Command's
          >> role
          >> in the Global War on Terrorism when I was still on active duty. It was
          >> a
          >> quite diverse audience.
          >>
          >>
          >> Mike D
          >>

        • Kip Lindberg
          Trent, Sorry- I just got to this email. We have several more images from this series of tests performed in Hawaii on the firehose adapter. They seem to have
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 5, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Trent,
             
            Sorry- I just got to this email. We have several more images from this series of tests performed in Hawaii on the firehose adapter. They seem to have been taken on either 20 or 23 March 1945, as a demonstration for LTG Wilhelm D. Styer, C-in-C, US Forces, Western Pacific, and party. 
             
            If you speak to Mr. Zaloga you might mention them.
             
            V/R,
            kip

            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            From: trent_telenko@...
            Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:39:45 -0700
            Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

             
            Joe,
             
            Steve Zaloga is putting together a WW2 American flame tank book for Osprey.
             
            Steve made a visit to the RG175 files at NARA and got a bunch of stuff on the Hawaii flame thrower group that put together the Iwo jima and Okinawa Sherman flame tanks.
             
            I think I have sent you the attached already, but FYI if not.


            From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, March 21, 2012 11:47:53 AM
            Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

             
            Watchman, did your Dad take any photos? Did he or the other vet ever mention
            using the firehose attachment in combat?

            Joe

            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "watchman662000" <watchman662000@...>
            Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:12 AM
            To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [G104] Re: Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology

            > Thanks for bringing the NYMAS site to our attention. I did listen to the
            > podcast, during which I noted some information gaps, due to a lack of
            > firsthand accounts. Major Rinquist was therefore very interested to hear
            > that my father, a member of the 713th Tank Battalion (Flamethrower)is
            > still among us. The Major will be interviewing my father to possibly fill
            > in the information they lack. I'm hoping another surviving member of A
            > company, with whom I am in contact, will be interested in being
            > interviewed as well.
            >
            > --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Digital recordings of the talk's audio will be on the NYMAS web site
            >> after the
            >> talk is given.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ________________________________
            >> From: Mike Davino <mdavino@...>
            >> To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            >> Sent: Fri, February 10, 2012 9:17:33 AM
            >> Subject: Re: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
            >>
            >> Â
            >> According to the NYMAS website, "NYMAS talks are free and open to the
            >> public."
            >>
            >> I made a presentation at one several years ago about US Central Command's
            >> role
            >> in the Global War on Terrorism when I was still on active duty. It was
            >> a
            >> quite diverse audience.
            >>
            >>
            >> Mike D
            >>
            >> --- On Fri, 2/10/12, spideytank@... <spideytank@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> >From: spideytank@... <spideytank@...>
            >> >Subject: Re: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
            >> >To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            >> >Date: Friday, February 10, 2012, 6:14 AM
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >Â
            >> >Do you know if you need to be invited to attend?
            >> >
            >> >In a message dated 2/10/2012 2:56:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
            >> >mdavino@... writes:
            >> >Â
            >> >>In case anyone has trouble opening that URL, here is the text of the
            >> >>announcement:
            >> >>
            >> >>Friday eveningtalk
            >> >>February 17, 2012
            >> >>7 pm to 8:45 pm
            >> >>Flamethrower
            >> >>Tanks and Doctrine in
            >> >>WWII Technology
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>Major John P. Ringquist
            >> >>United States Military Academy
            >> >>at West Point
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>--- On Fri, 2/10/12, Mike Davino <mdavino@...> wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >>>From: Mike Davino <mdavino@...>
            >> >>>Subject: [G104] Flamethrower Tanks and Doctrine in WWII Technology
            >> >>>To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            >> >>>Date: Friday, February 10, 2012, 2:47 AM
            >> >>>
            >> >>>
            >> >>>Â
            >> >>>For those on the group who will be in the New York City area next
            >> >>>week, this
            >> >>>presentation may be of interest:
            >> >>>
            >> >>>http://nymas.org/
            >> >>>
            >> >>>Mike D
            >> >>>
            >> >>>
            >> >>The Soldiers Sailors Club
            >> >>283 Lexington Avenue
            >> >>(between 36th and 37th Streets)
            >> >>New York City





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