Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

Expand Messages
  • Joe DeMarco
    Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt s Sherman ? Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds. The M4E5s
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
       Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
      Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

      The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

      "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

      If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

      You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

      The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

      There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

      Joe



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Trent Telenko
      To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
      Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





      Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


      View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
      Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
      Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
      Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
      Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
      Pages: 22 page(s)
      Accession Number: AD0492418
      Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
      Report Classification: U - Unclassified
      Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


      And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


      View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
      Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
      Author: McClelland, J F
      Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
      Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
      Pages: 55 page(s)
      Accession Number: AD0492417
      Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
      Report Classification: U - Unclassified
      Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



      View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
      Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
      Author: Bogan, B W
      Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
      Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
      Pages: 33 page(s)
      Accession Number: AD0492406
      Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
      Report Classification: U - Unclassified
      Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


      You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




      From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
      To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
      Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

       
       
      Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

      I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

      I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







      __._,_.__
    • karl van sweden
      Guys, If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon. Karl. To: G104@yahoogroups.com From:
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Guys,
         
        If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
         
        Karl.
         

        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
        From: snick13@...
        Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
        Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

         
         Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
        Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

        The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

        "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

        If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

        You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

        The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

        There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

        Joe



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Trent Telenko
        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
        Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





        Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


        View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
        Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
        Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
        Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
        Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
        Pages: 22 page(s)
        Accession Number: AD0492418
        Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
        Report Classification: U - Unclassified
        Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


        And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


        View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
        Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
        Author: McClelland, J F
        Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
        Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
        Pages: 55 page(s)
        Accession Number: AD0492417
        Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
        Report Classification: U - Unclassified
        Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



        View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
        Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
        Author: Bogan, B W
        Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
        Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
        Pages: 33 page(s)
        Accession Number: AD0492406
        Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
        Report Classification: U - Unclassified
        Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


        You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




        From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
        Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

         
         
        Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

        I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

        I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







        __._,_.__

      • Don Moriarty
        FYI   Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March.    The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          FYI
           
          Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March. 
           
          The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
           
          Regards
          Don

          --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

          From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
          Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
          To: g104@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:15 PM

           
          Guys,
           
          If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
           
          Karl.
           

          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          From: snick13@...
          Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
          Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

           
           Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
          Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

          The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

          "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

          If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

          You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

          The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

          There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

          Joe



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Trent Telenko
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
          Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





          Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


          View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
          Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
          Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
          Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
          Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
          Pages: 22 page(s)
          Accession Number: AD0492418
          Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
          Report Classification: U - Unclassified
          Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


          And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


          View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
          Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
          Author: McClelland, J F
          Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
          Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
          Pages: 55 page(s)
          Accession Number: AD0492417
          Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
          Report Classification: U - Unclassified
          Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



          View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
          Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
          Author: Bogan, B W
          Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
          Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
          Pages: 33 page(s)
          Accession Number: AD0492406
          Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
          Report Classification: U - Unclassified
          Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


          You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




          From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
          Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

           
           
          Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

          I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

          I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







          __._,_.__


        • karl van sweden
          Thanks done we needed the official word. Heard from another friend of ours that the Hunniocutt files would be moving too. How you been? Karl. To:
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks done we needed the official word. Heard from another friend of ours that the Hunniocutt files would be moving too. How you been?
             
            Karl.
             

            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            From: donmor3@...
            Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:05:42 -0800
            Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

             
            FYI
             
            Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March. 
             
            The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
             
            Regards
            Don

            --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

            From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
            Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
            To: g104@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:15 PM

             
            Guys,
             
            If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
             
            Karl.
             

            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            From: snick13@...
            Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
            Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

             
             Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
            Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

            The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

            "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

            If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

            You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

            The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

            There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

            Joe



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Trent Telenko
            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
            Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





            Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
            Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
            Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
            Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
            Pages: 22 page(s)
            Accession Number: AD0492418
            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


            And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
            Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
            Author: McClelland, J F
            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
            Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
            Pages: 55 page(s)
            Accession Number: AD0492417
            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
            Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
            Author: Bogan, B W
            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
            Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
            Pages: 33 page(s)
            Accession Number: AD0492406
            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


            You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




            From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
            Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

             
             
            Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

            I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

            I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







            __._,_.__



          • Trent Telenko
            I was e-mailed a few days ago that the Patton Library was closed by a staffer there. ________________________________ From: karl van sweden
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I was e-mailed a few days ago that the Patton Library was closed by a staffer there.



              From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
              To: g104@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 5:13:48 PM
              Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

               

              Thanks done we needed the official word. Heard from another friend of ours that the Hunniocutt files would be moving too. How you been?
               
              Karl.
               


              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              From: donmor3@...
              Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:05:42 -0800
              Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

               
              FYI
               
              Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March. 
               
              The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
               
              Regards
              Don

              --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

              From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
              Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
              To: g104@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:15 PM

               
              Guys,
               
              If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
               
              Karl.
               

              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              From: snick13@...
              Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

               
               Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
              Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

              The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

              "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

              If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

              You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

              The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

              There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

              Joe



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Trent Telenko
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





              Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
              Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
              Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
              Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
              Pages: 22 page(s)
              Accession Number: AD0492418
              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


              And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
              Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
              Author: McClelland, J F
              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
              Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
              Pages: 55 page(s)
              Accession Number: AD0492417
              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
              Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
              Author: Bogan, B W
              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
              Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
              Pages: 33 page(s)
              Accession Number: AD0492406
              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


              You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




              From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
              Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

               
               
              Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

              I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

              I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







              __._,_.__




            • Don Moriarty
              Karl   Doing alright, I m staying busy and trying to get as much done on Cobra King as possible.  Along with a slew of other projects, its amazing I have
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Karl
                 
                Doing alright, I'm staying busy and trying to get as much done on Cobra King as possible.  Along with a slew of other projects, its amazing I have time to sleep.
                 
                Lost 'My Baby' to the 'Haulers' back in December.  Life goes on though....
                 
                Regards
                Don
                 
                --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

                From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
                Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
                To: g104@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:13 PM

                 
                Thanks done we needed the official word. Heard from another friend of ours that the Hunniocutt files would be moving too. How you been?
                 
                Karl.
                 

                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                From: donmor3@...
                Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:05:42 -0800
                Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                 
                FYI
                 
                Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March. 
                 
                The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
                 
                Regards
                Don

                --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

                From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
                Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
                To: g104@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:15 PM

                 
                Guys,
                 
                If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
                 
                Karl.
                 

                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                From: snick13@...
                Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
                Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                 
                 Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
                Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

                The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

                "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

                If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

                You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

                The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

                There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

                Joe



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Trent Telenko
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
                Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





                Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


                View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
                Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
                Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
                Pages: 22 page(s)
                Accession Number: AD0492418
                Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


                View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
                Author: McClelland, J F
                Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
                Pages: 55 page(s)
                Accession Number: AD0492417
                Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



                View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
                Author: Bogan, B W
                Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
                Pages: 33 page(s)
                Accession Number: AD0492406
                Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




                From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
                Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                 
                 
                Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

                I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

                I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







                __._,_.__




              • Trent Telenko
                I have access to a copy at the Dallas Public Library and about 30 pages of photo copies at home. The General Kruger (6th Army) files are at Texas A&M at
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 2, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have access to a copy at the Dallas Public Library and about 30 pages of photo copies at home.

                  The General Kruger (6th Army) files are at Texas A&M at College Station.  I have several 6th Army intelligence reports and Operation Blacklist Field Order 75.  My source there is angling for FO 74, which is the invasion of Japan.

                  You can find a electronic copies of Operation Downfall planning documents at this link:

                  http://www.alternatewars.com/WW2/WW2.htm

                  As for Operation Olympic tank deployments, Richard Frank's DOWNFALL -- The End of The Imperial Japanese Empire, Page 398 notes showed a document from General Marshall showing 125 Pershings issued thusly:
                   
                  706th Tank Btn -- 71xM26 Pershing (4 companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (assault gun platoon)
                  767th Tank Btn -- 54xM26 Pershing (3 Companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (Assault gun platoon), 17 M24 Chaffee (Light tank company)

                  The USMC tank battalions were all going in with 45 M4A3(105mm) HVSS and nine POA-CWS-H5 Flame Tanks and a three M4 Tank-dozers


                  From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 10:07:25 PM
                  Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                   

                  Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
                  Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

                  The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

                  "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

                  If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

                  You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

                  The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

                  There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

                  Joe



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Trent Telenko
                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
                  Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





                  Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


                  View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                  Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
                  Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
                  Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                  Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
                  Pages: 22 page(s)
                  Accession Number: AD0492418
                  Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                  Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                  Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                  And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


                  View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                  Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
                  Author: McClelland, J F
                  Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                  Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
                  Pages: 55 page(s)
                  Accession Number: AD0492417
                  Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                  Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                  Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



                  View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                  Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
                  Author: Bogan, B W
                  Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                  Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
                  Pages: 33 page(s)
                  Accession Number: AD0492406
                  Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                  Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                  Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                  You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




                  From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
                  Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                   
                   
                  Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

                  I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

                  I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







                  __._,_.__


                • karl van sweden
                  Don, Glad to hear all is right in your world except of course the movement of the Ontos. I too am busy especially now after the bit of snow andblow we had
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 3, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Don,
                     
                    Glad to hear all is right in your world except of course the movement of the Ontos.

                    I too am busy especially now after the bit of snow andblow we had yesterday. With luck the Hunnicutt files may still be there if and when i can make a journey down this spring or summer.
                     
                    Keep at it you guys are doing wonders on Cobra King and all that you are doing.
                     
                    Gods speed,
                     
                    Karl. 

                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    From: donmor3@...
                    Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:04:20 -0800
                    Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                     
                    Karl
                     
                    Doing alright, I'm staying busy and trying to get as much done on Cobra King as possible.  Along with a slew of other projects, its amazing I have time to sleep.
                     
                    Lost 'My Baby' to the 'Haulers' back in December.  Life goes on though....
                     
                    Regards
                    Don
                     
                    --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

                    From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
                    Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
                    To: g104@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:13 PM

                     
                    Thanks done we needed the official word. Heard from another friend of ours that the Hunniocutt files would be moving too. How you been?
                     
                    Karl.
                     

                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    From: donmor3@...
                    Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:05:42 -0800
                    Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                     
                    FYI
                     
                    Officially the Patton Museum is closed for rebuilding and is not due to reopen until March. 
                     
                    The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
                     
                    Regards
                    Don

                    --- On Wed, 2/2/11, karl van sweden <othertrax@...> wrote:

                    From: karl van sweden <othertrax@...>
                    Subject: RE: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question
                    To: g104@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:15 PM

                     
                    Guys,
                     
                    If you plan on going to the Patton museum to see those file you had better hurry they will be leaving soon.
                     
                    Karl.
                     

                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    From: snick13@...
                    Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:07:25 -0500
                    Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                     
                     Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
                    Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

                    The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

                    "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

                    If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

                    You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

                    The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

                    There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

                    Joe



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Trent Telenko
                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





                    Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


                    View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                    Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
                    Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
                    Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                    Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
                    Pages: 22 page(s)
                    Accession Number: AD0492418
                    Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                    Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                    Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                    And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


                    View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                    Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
                    Author: McClelland, J F
                    Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                    Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
                    Pages: 55 page(s)
                    Accession Number: AD0492417
                    Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                    Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                    Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



                    View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                    Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
                    Author: Bogan, B W
                    Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                    Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
                    Pages: 33 page(s)
                    Accession Number: AD0492406
                    Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                    Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                    Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                    You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




                    From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
                    Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                     
                     
                    Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

                    I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

                    I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.







                    __._,_.__





                  • Trent Telenko
                    ...variant that Hunnicutt really did miss in his SHERMAN book. The puppy was built in 1945-47. It used the same flame gun as the E12-7R1 with a special pump
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 4, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      ...variant that Hunnicutt really did miss in his SHERMAN book.

                      The puppy was built in 1945-47. 

                      It used the same flame gun as the E12-7R1 with a special pump fuel mixing and storage system that was developed for placement in the Pershing T35 main armament flame tank.

                      This is the reference cite with the text excerpted below:

                      History of Research and Development of The Chemical Warfare Service in WWII
                      (1 July 1940 - 31 December 1945)
                      Volume 15 Part II
                      FLAMETHROWERS
                      1 May 1949
                      by Leo Finkelstein

                      pages 366-367


                      Mechanized Flame Thrower E21-7R1 -- The E21-7R1 Flame
                      Thrower was installed in a M4A3 Medium Tank (wet stowage,
                      75-mm. gun). This unit was built to test the principle of
                      pump operation for mechanized flame throwers. The modified
                      Imo screw pump propelling the fuel was incorporated into
                      a Dower take-off unit that replaced a section of the tank
                      driveshaft. The pump was driven from the main driveshaft
                      of the tank through a clutch and chain drive enclosed in the
                      unit. This assembly was bolted to the inside of the rear
                      wall of the fuel tank and was immersed in the fuel. The
                      vehicle floor and side walls of the sponson composed the
                      floor and two sides of the fuel tank. The remaining sides
                      and cover were welded in place.

                      Using the propelling pump as a source of power, it was
                      possible to mix the napalm fuel in the fuel tank. The na-
                      palm was added through the mixing injector, and the mix was
                      recirculated in the fuel tank until the fuel was "set."
                      When necessary, gasoline could be heated in the fuel tank
                      by recirculation through the pump against pressure.
                      The E7Rl Mechanized Flame Thrower Gun replaced the
                      75-mm gun in the turret. Air to operate the gun was obtained
                      from two electrically driven air compressors, which
                      made the unit independent of external air supply. The
                      pump unit was designed to supply full pressure for the
                      1/2-inch nozzle on this gun at normal engine speeds (approximately
                      132 gallons per minute). A 5/8-inch nozzle
                      was also used with satisfactory results at full engine
                      speed; this appeared to be the maximum nozzle size (flow
                      rate 200 gallons per minute) that the pump could accommodate
                      (379).


                      379. "Development of Flame Thrower Combat Vehicle, E21-7Rl,"
                      Eastman Kodak Company, Department of Manufacturing
                      Experiments, Rochester, New York,
                      Final Report. Contract W18-035-CWS 1246,
                      29 May 1947, (ETF 235-56/Final).

                    • Kurt Laughlin
                      See Hunnicutt, page 416. KL ... From: Trent Telenko ...variant that Hunnicutt really did miss in his SHERMAN book. The puppy was built in 1945-47. It used the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 4, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        See Hunnicutt, page 416.

                        KL
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Trent Telenko

                        ...variant that Hunnicutt really did miss in his SHERMAN book.

                        The puppy was built in 1945-47.

                        It used the same flame gun as the E12-7R1 with a special pump fuel mixing
                        and storage system that was developed for placement in the Pershing T35 main
                        armament flame tank.

                        This is the reference cite with the text excerpted below:
                      • Trent Telenko
                        Well, that is another one I m going to have to eat crow over. ________________________________ From: Kurt Laughlin To:
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 4, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well,  that is another one I'm going to have to eat crow over.



                          From: Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
                          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, February 4, 2011 3:29:57 PM
                          Subject: Re: [G104] Another Sherman Flame Tank...

                           

                          See Hunnicutt, page 416.

                          KL

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Trent Telenko

                          ...variant that Hunnicutt really did miss in his SHERMAN book.

                          The puppy was built in 1945-47.

                          It used the same flame gun as the E12-7R1 with a special pump fuel mixing
                          and storage system that was developed for placement in the Pershing T35 main
                          armament flame tank.

                          This is the reference cite with the text excerpted below:


                        • Joe DeMarco
                          ... Hope this valuable resource doesn t get lost in the shuffle, or simply disappear to the public for the next 20 years. ... Interesting. Anything about
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 6, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            
                            >The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
                             
                            Hope this valuable resource doesn't get lost in the shuffle, or simply "disappear" to the public for the next 20 years.
                             
                            >706th Tank Btn -- 71xM26 Pershing (4 companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (assault gun platoon)
                             
                            Interesting.  Anything about Commonwealth participation? (Churchill requested they be granted the honour of taking part.) Anything about DDs?  I have the impression that the US was completely soured on the idea of swimming tanks by that time. However, the British ordered 300 DDs based on the M4A2(76)HVSS. That was cut back to 200 with a schedule of 50 each Sept thru Dec, 1945. In the event, 2 pilots were made, one of which was on display at APG. Just wondering what they thought they would be doing with those??
                             
                            Joe
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 10:45 PM
                            Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                            I have access to a copy at the Dallas Public Library and about 30 pages of photo copies at home.

                            The General Kruger (6th Army) files are at Texas A&M at College Station.  I have several 6th Army intelligence reports and Operation Blacklist Field Order 75.  My source there is angling for FO 74, which is the invasion of Japan.

                            You can find a electronic copies of Operation Downfall planning documents at this link:

                            http://www.alternatewars.com/WW2/WW2.htm

                            As for Operation Olympic tank deployments, Richard Frank's DOWNFALL -- The End of The Imperial Japanese Empire, Page 398 notes showed a document from General Marshall showing 125 Pershings issued thusly:
                             
                            706th Tank Btn -- 71xM26 Pershing (4 companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (assault gun platoon)
                            767th Tank Btn -- 54xM26 Pershing (3 Companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (Assault gun platoon), 17 M24 Chaffee (Light tank company)

                            The USMC tank battalions were all going in with 45 M4A3(105mm) HVSS and nine POA-CWS-H5 Flame Tanks and a three M4 Tank-dozers


                            From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 10:07:25 PM
                            Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                             

                             Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
                            Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

                            The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

                            "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

                            If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

                            You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

                            The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

                            There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

                            Joe



                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Trent Telenko
                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
                            Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





                            Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


                            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                            Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
                            Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
                            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                            Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
                            Pages: 22 page(s)
                            Accession Number: AD0492418
                            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                            And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


                            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                            Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
                            Author: McClelland, J F
                            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                            Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
                            Pages: 55 page(s)
                            Accession Number: AD0492417
                            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



                            View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                            Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
                            Author: Bogan, B W
                            Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                            Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
                            Pages: 33 page(s)
                            Accession Number: AD0492406
                            Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                            Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                            Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                            You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




                            From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
                            Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                             
                             
                            Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

                            I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

                            I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.


                          • Trent Telenko
                            There was going to be a Commonwealth Corps made up of three divisions, One British, on Australian and one from New Zealand, for Operation Coronet. The over
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 6, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              There was going to be a Commonwealth Corps made up of three divisions, One British, on Australian and one from New Zealand, for Operation Coronet.   The over all Commonwealth Corps commander was going to be Australian and the Corps would be a follow on force.

                              The divisions were going to be US Army TO&E, likely the US Army R-table infantry divisions, which would give each infantry regiment 27x57mm and 18x75mm recoilless rifles plus two nine-tank companies.  One company would be armed with a 105mm gun-tank or SPM and the other armed with a 90mm or 76mm gun tank or SPM.

                              The USMC and US Army Forces Pacific did not think much of the DD-kits and had the T-6 & T-7 Ritche device kits on-hand for both Operation Downfall invasions.

                              The US Army 1949 Armor Conference thought less of the DD-kit than the Ritche device since the latter were more seaworthy. The M26, M47 and M48 were all fitted with follow-ons to the Ritche kit before the idea was totally given up on.  (See Hunnicutt's Patton book.)

                              However, they didn't give up on the DD idea entirely.  Witness the attempted swimming kit for the M2 Bradley in the late 1980's. 

                              If the US Army could have gotten the DD-kit to work for MBT weight's you would have seen them on American NATO based tanks for river crossings, IMO. 



                              From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
                              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 10:04:05 AM
                              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                               

                              

                              >The Library is also closed to the public as efforts are ongoing to prepare for the BRAC move. 
                               
                              Hope this valuable resource doesn't get lost in the shuffle, or simply "disappear" to the public for the next 20 years.
                               
                              >706th Tank Btn -- 71xM26 Pershing (4 companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (assault gun platoon)
                               
                              Interesting.  Anything about Commonwealth participation? (Churchill requested they be granted the honour of taking part.) Anything about DDs?  I have the impression that the US was completely soured on the idea of swimming tanks by that time. However, the British ordered 300 DDs based on the M4A2(76)HVSS. That was cut back to 200 with a schedule of 50 each Sept thru Dec, 1945. In the event, 2 pilots were made, one of which was on display at APG. Just wondering what they thought they would be doing with those??
                               
                              Joe
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 10:45 PM
                              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                              I have access to a copy at the Dallas Public Library and about 30 pages of photo copies at home.

                              The General Kruger (6th Army) files are at Texas A&M at College Station.  I have several 6th Army intelligence reports and Operation Blacklist Field Order 75.  My source there is angling for FO 74, which is the invasion of Japan.

                              You can find a electronic copies of Operation Downfall planning documents at this link:

                              http://www.alternatewars.com/WW2/WW2.htm

                              As for Operation Olympic tank deployments, Richard Frank's DOWNFALL -- The End of The Imperial Japanese Empire, Page 398 notes showed a document from General Marshall showing 125 Pershings issued thusly:
                               
                              706th Tank Btn -- 71xM26 Pershing (4 companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (assault gun platoon)
                              767th Tank Btn -- 54xM26 Pershing (3 Companies), 6xM4A3(105mm) Shermans (Assault gun platoon), 17 M24 Chaffee (Light tank company)

                              The USMC tank battalions were all going in with 45 M4A3(105mm) HVSS and nine POA-CWS-H5 Flame Tanks and a three M4 Tank-dozers


                              From: Joe DeMarco <snick13@...>
                              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 10:07:25 PM
                              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                               

                               Trent, do you not have a copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman"?
                              Mr. H. has some blurbs ( with pix ) about the Chrysler V12 - M4E3, & other engine testbeds.

                              The M4E5s of the last report you listed were the 105mm pilots.

                              "You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor."

                              If you have to do that FOIA thing, it's a hassle.

                              You may find the full engine reports in the Hunnicutt files at the Patton Museum in Ky, but you would have to go there...

                              The postwar Ordnance files at NARA were mostly concerned with rocket & missile technology. There were a few "atomic" Shermans & Flamethrower Reports that I would have been mildly interested in, but they were still classified (for no other reason than lack of staff), so the Archivist told me I would have to do a FOIA request.

                              There was an article about the proposed Invasion of Kyushu in the 7/09 issue of WW II History mag. It lists all the Army & Marine Divs that were slated to take part. Have you seen any of that planning material? I was thinking the tank battalions would have used the Shermans etc. they already had, since it doesn't seem like there would have been enough time to supply them with newer weapons? The 98th Div was to be part of the floating reserve. That was one of only two of the 90 divs that Gen Marshall created that didn't see combat in WW II. Their Tank Bn had a bunch of M4 Composites in Hawaii, & I was thinking the one that Adrian's friend bought from Brazil might have been one of theirs.

                              Joe



                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Trent Telenko
                              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:11 AM
                              Subject: Re: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question





                              Here is the DTIC report I mentioned previously about the Chrysler V-12 engine:


                              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                              Title: ENGINE-V-12. A-65. INSTALLATION AND TEST IN MEDIUM TANK
                              Author: Doidge, J R Kererta, H
                              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                              Report Date: 18-Oct-1943
                              Pages: 22 page(s)
                              Accession Number: AD0492418
                              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                              And here are two more cites that may be of interest to the list:


                              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 3 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                              Title: ENGINE PERFORMANCE FOR MEDIUM TANKS
                              Author: McClelland, J F
                              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                              Report Date: 14-Oct-1943
                              Pages: 55 page(s)
                              Accession Number: AD0492417
                              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)



                              View Citation  |  View Full Text PDF - 1 MB  | Add to Shopping Cart  | Add to Bibliography
                              Title: TANK DESIGN. PILOT MODELS M4E5
                              Author: Bogan, B W
                              Corporate Author: ARMY TANK-AUTOMOTIVE CENTER WARREN MI
                              Report Date: 15-Oct-1943
                              Pages: 33 page(s)
                              Accession Number: AD0492406
                              Distribution Code: 04 - DOD ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED
                              Report Classification: U - Unclassified
                              Collection: Technical Reports (ac-tr)


                              You will have to file a FOIA request to get the reports or see the Commerce Department to get access is you are a non-Defense Department employee or contractor.




                              From: Trent Telenko <trent_telenko@...>
                              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 5:52:04 PM
                              Subject: [G104] A Sherman Engine Question

                               
                               
                              Has anyone on the list heard of a V-12 600-hp Chrysler engine being tested on a M4A4 hull?

                              I was poking around the DTIC data base at the end of the work day and ran into technical report describing it.

                              I didn't get a chance to download the puppy, but it looked to be a 1943 dated report.



                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.