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RE: [G104] Re: New Sherman in the US

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  • Dan Jahn
    Is that the correct turret for that undercarriage? From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dlevydo@aol.com Sent: Thursday,
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 11, 2010
      Is that the correct turret for that undercarriage?









      From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dlevydo@...
      Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 10:12 PM
      To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [G104] Re: New Sherman in the US





      That looks like the one. They said the mantlet was "tack welded" on when it
      arrived, maybe that explains the rope around the mantel in the picture.

      The turret ring gear has also been cut out so the turret is just sitting on
      the hull.

      Do you know more about this tank? Where is that picture from / how old?

      -Dave


      In a message dated 11/12/2010 1:04:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      soldat_ryan@... <mailto:soldat_ryan%40hotmail.com> writes:

      Hello,

      could it be this Sherman ? :

      _http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-register\ <http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-register/Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg_>
      /Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg_
      (http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-register/Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg)
      <_http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-registe\ <http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-register/Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg_>
      r/Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg_
      (http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af278/panzerpanther5/NL-AFV-register/Sherman%20tank/M4A3Sherman_01.jpg) >

      Pierre-Olivier

      > Hi,
      >
      > An M4A3E8 was brought in to the port of Newark last Thursday from the
      > Netherlands. It was brought in by the Kadish Museum of American Armor.
      I went
      > over and saw it today. It is Chrysler built, but I could only make
      out a 7
      > in SN on the tow lug. Has the original GAA and runs under its own
      power.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tich
      Hi That M4A3E8 was for a short time in the possesion of the Dutch reenactement groep Aces. Some history of it
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 12, 2010
        Hi

        That M4A3E8 was for a short time in the possesion of the Dutch reenactement groep Aces. Some history of it
        http://www.preservinghistory.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69%3Asherman-easy-8&catid=14&Itemid=86

        Michel
      • Hanno Spoelstra
        Hi Dave, This is a converted M74 TRV. It used to be part of the collection of the Museum Park Wings of Liberation at Best, the Netherlands:
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 12, 2010
          Hi Dave,

          This is a converted M74 TRV. It used to be part of the collection of the
          Museum Park Wings of Liberation at Best, the Netherlands:
          http://ic2.pbase.com/o6/57/50857/1/85775817.cmnTiYCd.DSCF3040.JPG

          It was acquired by a group of re enactors who decided to turn it into a gun
          tank. The turret is not correct for this type of hull and the upper deck is
          sheet metal.

          Hope this helps,
          Hanno


          At 17:44 11-11-2010 EST, you wrote:
          >Hi,
          >
          >An M4A3E8 was brought in to the port of Newark last Thursday from the
          >Netherlands. It was brought in by the Kadish Museum of American Armor. I went
          >over and saw it today. It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a 7
          >in SN on the tow lug. Has the original GAA and runs under its own power.
          >
          >I suppose it is a variant as it has extra tow lugs welded on the
          >differential housing and an odd layout for the bottles of the fire
          suppression
          >system being located behind the co-driver. There is also a power-take-off
          unit
          >between the drive shaft and transmission. There are areas on the hull where
          >the welded seems are ground flat in the same areas where the M32 has the
          >front supports for the arms.
          >
          >I posted two pictures. I am sure that someone can identify more
          >accurately.
          >
          >-Dave
        • Joe DeMarco
          Hi Dave Thanks for the heads up about that. A while back Pierre-Olivier had asked if that could be an example of one of the Fisher built M4A3(75)HVSS s. From
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 12, 2010
            Hi Dave

            Thanks for the heads up about that. A while back Pierre-Olivier had asked if
            that could be an example of one of the Fisher built M4A3(75)HVSS's. From his
            pix, I thought it looked like a Chrysler, since it has the type of sprockets
            they used. I saw the additional fittings at the bottom of the diff, but
            didn't make the M74 connection. In retrospect, you can see that the lifting
            rings on the glacis were moved lower so as not to interfere with the M74's
            boom. Also, when they did the M74 conversion, I think Bowen McLaughlin York
            replaced the original periscope guard with the particular type that one has
            on the driver's hatch.

            >It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a 7 in SN on the tow lug.

            M74s were mostly converted from late production M4A3(105)HVSSs, & a few have
            been noted to have very high serial numbers in the 7xxxx range, Dave. Period
            photos suggest that they simply kept their original M4A3(105) USA Reg.
            Numbers.

            Anyway, mystery solved. I don't believe that any M4A3(75)HVSS's have
            survived as such, because most or all were converted to M4A3(76)HVSS for the
            postwar Army.

            >Is that the correct turret for that undercarriage?

            If you assume that the people who "converted" that back to a gun tank were
            going for M4A3(75)HVSS, you might think that a low bustle turret would be
            inappropriate, but Fisher did use some older turrets left over from the M32
            program on some of those. In many cases it was necessary to cut in the oval
            loader's hatch on the recycled turrets, & from P-O's pix, that one appears
            to have that. On page 330 of Hunnicutt's "Sherman," there is a photo of a
            long line of M4A3(75)HVSS's at the Manila Ord Depot, Aug, 1945. One low
            bustle turret is clearly visible & the ones with the armor patch on the
            turret would be other examples of the recycled jobs. AFAIK, no one has come
            up with a photo of an M4A3(75)HVSS in combat during WW II.

            I'd be curious to see the top of the turret & the casting marks, etc. By any
            chance did you take any pix like that, Dave?
            Due to absurd restrictive laws, it's rare to have a US built AFV imported
            back into the States.

            Joe




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <dlevydo@...>
            To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:44 PM
            Subject: [G104] New Sherman in the US


            > Hi,
            >
            > An M4A3E8 was brought in to the port of Newark last Thursday from the
            > Netherlands. It was brought in by the Kadish Museum of American Armor. I
            > went
            > over and saw it today. It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a
            > 7
            > in SN on the tow lug. Has the original GAA and runs under its own power.
            >
            > I suppose it is a variant as it has extra tow lugs welded on the
            > differential housing and an odd layout for the bottles of the fire
            > suppression
            > system being located behind the co-driver. There is also a power-take-off
            > unit
            > between the drive shaft and transmission. There are areas on the hull
            > where
            > the welded seems are ground flat in the same areas where the M32 has the
            > front supports for the arms.
            >
            > I posted two pictures. I am sure that someone can identify more
            > accurately.
            >
            > -Dave
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > **Please trim your replies**
            > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
            > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
            > **Attachments will be stripped**
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > Sherman Register
            > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • dlevydo@aol.com
            Hi Joe, I knew you and the rest of the group would be able to quickly and accurately identify this tank. I will go back over and take some more picts for
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 12, 2010
              Hi Joe,

              I knew you and the rest of the group would be able to quickly and
              accurately identify this tank. I will go back over and take some more picts for
              you. Anything else in particular you would like to see?

              >Due to absurd restrictive laws, it's rare to have a US built AFV imported
              back into the States.

              Apparently there was very significant political support to get this tank in
              by Veterans Day.

              -Dave


              In a message dated 11/12/2010 1:33:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              snick13@... writes:




              Hi Dave

              Thanks for the heads up about that. A while back Pierre-Olivier had asked
              if
              that could be an example of one of the Fisher built M4A3(75)HVSS's. From
              his
              pix, I thought it looked like a Chrysler, since it has the type of
              sprockets
              they used. I saw the additional fittings at the bottom of the diff, but
              didn't make the M74 connection. In retrospect, you can see that the lifting
              rings on the glacis were moved lower so as not to interfere with the M74's
              boom. Also, when they did the M74 conversion, I think Bowen McLaughlin York
              replaced the original periscope guard with the particular type that one has
              on the driver's hatch.

              >It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a 7 in SN on the tow lug.

              M74s were mostly converted from late production M4A3(105)HVSSs, & a few
              have
              been noted to have very high serial numbers in the 7xxxx range, Dave.
              Period
              photos suggest that they simply kept their original M4A3(105) USA Reg.
              Numbers.

              Anyway, mystery solved. I don't believe that any M4A3(75)HVSS's have
              survived as such, because most or all were converted to M4A3(76)HVSS for
              the
              postwar Army.

              >Is that the correct turret for that undercarriage?

              If you assume that the people who "converted" that back to a gun tank were
              going for M4A3(75)HVSS, you might think that a low bustle turret would be
              inappropriate, but Fisher did use some older turrets left over from the M32
              program on some of those. In many cases it was necessary to cut in the oval
              loader's hatch on the recycled turrets, & from P-O's pix, that one appears
              to have that. On page 330 of Hunnicutt's "Sherman," there is a photo of a
              long line of M4A3(75)HVSS's at the Manila Ord Depot, Aug, 1945. One low
              bustle turret is clearly visible & the ones with the armor patch on the
              turret would be other examples of the recycled jobs. AFAIK, no one has come
              up with a photo of an M4A3(75)HVSS in combat during WW II.

              I'd be curious to see the top of the turret & the casting marks, etc. By
              any
              chance did you take any pix like that, Dave?
              Due to absurd restrictive laws, it's rare to have a US built AFV imported
              back into the States.

              Joe

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <_dlevydo@..._ (mailto:dlevydo@...) >
              To: <_G104@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com) >
              Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:44 PM
              Subject: [G104] New Sherman in the US

              > Hi,
              >
              > An M4A3E8 was brought in to the port of Newark last Thursday from the
              > Netherlands. It was brought in by the Kadish Museum of American Armor. I
              > went
              > over and saw it today. It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a
              > 7
              > in SN on the tow lug. Has the original GAA and runs under its own power.
              >
              > I suppose it is a variant as it has extra tow lugs welded on the
              > differential housing and an odd layout for the bottles of the fire
              > suppression
              > system being located behind the co-driver. There is also a power-take-off
              > unit
              > between the drive shaft and transmission. There are areas on the hull
              > where
              > the welded seems are ground flat in the same areas where the M32 has the
              > front supports for the arms.
              >
              > I posted two pictures. I am sure that someone can identify more
              > accurately.
              >
              > -Dave
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > **Please trim your replies**
              > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
              > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
              > **Attachments will be stripped**
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > Sherman Register
              > _http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104_
              (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104)
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
              > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104)
              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • xstuff@juno.com
              Hi Dave and Joe, My guess since this vehicle was a recovery vehicle on paper it came in as a wrecker and not as a tank. I do not believe there is any wrecker
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 15, 2010
                Hi Dave and Joe, My guess since this vehicle was a recovery vehicle on paper it came in as a wrecker and not as a tank. I do not believe there is any wrecker import bans in place at this time. Tom ---------- Original Message ----------
                From: dlevydo@...
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [G104] New Sherman in the US
                Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 14:14:32 EST


                Hi Joe,

                I knew you and the rest of the group would be able to quickly and
                accurately identify this tank. I will go back over and take some more picts for
                you. Anything else in particular you would like to see?

                >Due to absurd restrictive laws, it's rare to have a US built AFV imported
                back into the States.

                Apparently there was very significant political support to get this tank in
                by Veterans Day.

                -Dave


                In a message dated 11/12/2010 1:33:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                snick13@... writes:

                Hi Dave

                Thanks for the heads up about that. A while back Pierre-Olivier had asked
                if
                that could be an example of one of the Fisher built M4A3(75)HVSS's. From
                his
                pix, I thought it looked like a Chrysler, since it has the type of
                sprockets
                they used. I saw the additional fittings at the bottom of the diff, but
                didn't make the M74 connection. In retrospect, you can see that the lifting
                rings on the glacis were moved lower so as not to interfere with the M74's
                boom. Also, when they did the M74 conversion, I think Bowen McLaughlin York
                replaced the original periscope guard with the particular type that one has
                on the driver's hatch.

                >It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a 7 in SN on the tow lug.

                M74s were mostly converted from late production M4A3(105)HVSSs, & a few
                have
                been noted to have very high serial numbers in the 7xxxx range, Dave.
                Period
                photos suggest that they simply kept their original M4A3(105) USA Reg.
                Numbers.

                Anyway, mystery solved. I don't believe that any M4A3(75)HVSS's have
                survived as such, because most or all were converted to M4A3(76)HVSS for
                the
                postwar Army.

                >Is that the correct turret for that undercarriage?

                If you assume that the people who "converted" that back to a gun tank were
                going for M4A3(75)HVSS, you might think that a low bustle turret would be
                inappropriate, but Fisher did use some older turrets left over from the M32
                program on some of those. In many cases it was necessary to cut in the oval
                loader's hatch on the recycled turrets, & from P-O's pix, that one appears
                to have that. On page 330 of Hunnicutt's "Sherman," there is a photo of a
                long line of M4A3(75)HVSS's at the Manila Ord Depot, Aug, 1945. One low
                bustle turret is clearly visible & the ones with the armor patch on the
                turret would be other examples of the recycled jobs. AFAIK, no one has come
                up with a photo of an M4A3(75)HVSS in combat during WW II.

                I'd be curious to see the top of the turret & the casting marks, etc. By
                any
                chance did you take any pix like that, Dave?
                Due to absurd restrictive laws, it's rare to have a US built AFV imported
                back into the States.

                Joe

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <_dlevydo@..._ (mailto:dlevydo@...) >
                To: <_G104@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com) >
                Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 5:44 PM
                Subject: [G104] New Sherman in the US

                > Hi,
                >
                > An M4A3E8 was brought in to the port of Newark last Thursday from the
                > Netherlands. It was brought in by the Kadish Museum of American Armor. I
                > went
                > over and saw it today. It is Chrysler built, but I could only make out a
                > 7
                > in SN on the tow lug. Has the original GAA and runs under its own power.
                >
                > I suppose it is a variant as it has extra tow lugs welded on the
                > differential housing and an odd layout for the bottles of the fire
                > suppression
                > system being located behind the co-driver. There is also a power-take-off
                > unit
                > between the drive shaft and transmission. There are areas on the hull
                > where
                > the welded seems are ground flat in the same areas where the M32 has the
                > front supports for the arms.
                >
                > I posted two pictures. I am sure that someone can identify more
                > accurately.
                >
                > -Dave
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > **Please trim your replies**
                > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                > **Attachments will be stripped**
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > Sherman Register
                > _http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104_
                (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104)
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104)
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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