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Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed

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  • ceolredmonger
    Backing up Adrian s point - I just spoke to a 2WW British veteran Sherman gunner who only recalls belts (he associated disintigrating links with German MGs).
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 23, 2009
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      Backing up Adrian's point - I just spoke to a 2WW British veteran Sherman gunner who only recalls belts (he associated disintigrating links with German MGs).

      He commented on the case catching bags too - they could come adrift, he recalled one time (pre-D-day training) whilst he was wearing shorts and the driver a loose shirt. The recollection of the discomfort was very real even after all this time!

      Keith Matthews

      --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, TANKBARRELL@... wrote:
      >
      > In British Shermans, the cloth belt was used. As there is no provision for
      > catching the links in the original design, I suspect US Shermans were the same.
      > I have seen link chutes in post war Sherman use.
      >
      > Adrian Barrell
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Joe Pulkowski
      my guess the tankers used anything they could get their hands on.
      Message 2 of 27 , Mar 23, 2009
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        my guess the tankers used anything they could get their hands on.
      • Kurt Laughlin
        I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were an inferior
        Message 3 of 27 , Mar 23, 2009
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          I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were an inferior product with regard to durability and function and were replaced as soon as possible by links.

          KL

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BSteinIPMS@aol.com
          By extension to the G103 group, Kurt, would it be safe to say that most - if not all - M5A1s used cloth belts? I see a number of period photos showing M5A1s
          Message 4 of 27 , Mar 23, 2009
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            By extension to the G103 group, Kurt, would it be safe to say that most - if not all - M5A1s used cloth belts? I see a number of period photos showing M5A1s with cloth belts, but have not as of yet uncovered any showing the disintegrating metal link ammo feed used on the AAMG for M5A1s.

            --Bob Steinbrunn
            Stillwater, MN

            I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were an inferior product with regard to durability and function and were replaced as soon as possible by links.

            KL





            bY



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Russ Morgan
            KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended? Thanks Russ Morgan From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Message 5 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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              KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
              Thanks Russ Morgan



              From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
              Laughlin
              Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:37 PM
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed



              I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts
              were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were an
              inferior product with regard to durability and function and were replaced as
              soon as possible by links.

              KL

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Terry Warner
              The empty casings fall out the bottom of the M1919 receiver. About half of the bottom is open, and as the new round is indexed to go into the chamber, it
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                The empty casings fall out the bottom of the M1919 receiver. About half
                of the bottom is open, and as the new round is indexed to go into the
                chamber, it pushes the expended round down off the face of the
                breechblock. The links are pushed out the right side of the feed slot
                by the feed pawl as it slides the fresh round to the right in line with
                the extractor. All quite an intricate dance of pushing, pulling and
                groping of parts, all heavily lubricated. Not unlike some bars I've
                frequented.

                Terry

                Russ Morgan wrote:

                > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                > Thanks Russ Morgan
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kurt Laughlin
                Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of the
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                  Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                  were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of
                  the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.

                  KL
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Russ Morgan

                  KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                • Kurt Laughlin
                  Geez, I dunno about that . . . From the Green Book official history of WW II: . . . Metallic belt links were used chiefly in aircraft guns and fabric belts
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                    Geez, I dunno about that . . . From the "Green Book" official history of WW
                    II: ". . . Metallic belt links were used chiefly in aircraft guns and fabric
                    belts in ground weapons until the closing months of the war when metallic
                    belt links were issued to ground troops."

                    "[In May, 1944] all production [of cloth belts] stopped for about eight
                    months . . . Production of fabric belts for ground machine guns was resumed
                    for a short time after the German breakthrough of December 1944, but in 1945
                    fabric belts gradually gave way to steel links for infantry use."

                    ". . . The temporary shortage of steel and of strip mill and furnace
                    capacity in late 1942 prompted the adoption of .50-caliber fabric belts for
                    aircraft guns."

                    I guess I was thinking of problems with fabric belts in aircraft, but it
                    nonetheless appears that metallic link belts were increasingly used for
                    ground machine guns as the war went on.

                    KL


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: BSteinIPMS@...

                    By extension to the G103 group, Kurt, would it be safe to say that most - if
                    not all - M5A1s used cloth belts? I see a number of period photos showing
                    M5A1s with cloth belts, but have not as of yet uncovered any showing the
                    disintegrating metal link ammo feed used on the AAMG for M5A1s.
                  • ronlapp
                    Hi Russ, I don t have a definitive answer regarding where the links fell, although I presume a link chute was probably attached to the gun which channeled the
                    Message 9 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                      Hi Russ,

                      I don't have a definitive answer regarding where the links fell, although I presume a link chute was probably attached to the gun which channeled the links into the canvas case collection bag.

                      I think the jury is still out regarding which method was predominantly used - although from all the feedback that has been posted, it appears likely that both methods were used regularly. I can see the merits to both systems, and as was stated earlier, I'm sure the tankers would use whatever system was available.

                      Thanks to everyone for posting information. Keep it coming.

                      Ron





                      --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Russ Morgan" <morganru@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                      > Thanks Russ Morgan
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
                      > Laughlin
                      > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:37 PM
                      > To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts
                      > were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were an
                      > inferior product with regard to durability and function and were replaced as
                      > soon as possible by links.
                      >
                      > KL
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Russ Morgan
                      Granted, Unless you have been inside a tank behind a bow gun or looking at the co-axial MG and trying to get it firing, you would realize why I can t find any
                      Message 10 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                        Granted, Unless you have been inside a tank behind a bow gun or looking at
                        the co-axial MG and trying to get it firing, you would realize why I can't
                        find any link chute. I repeat.....is there a link chute that we cannot see
                        where it would go on the inside of a Stuart.......if there is NO link
                        attachments, then belts would be the only way to keep metal links from
                        jamming the moving parts that the links would grind into. This info is
                        probably pertinent to G104 but we are not trying to shoot our
                        Sherman.......we did however look for attachment on our Sherman mounts and
                        can't seem to see them......can anyone tell us if metal link shoots were
                        available in WW2? Thanks for the help. Russ Morgan



                        From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        ronlapp
                        Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:31 PM
                        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed



                        Hi Russ,

                        I don't have a definitive answer regarding where the links fell, although I
                        presume a link chute was probably attached to the gun which channeled the
                        links into the canvas case collection bag.

                        I think the jury is still out regarding which method was predominantly used
                        - although from all the feedback that has been posted, it appears likely
                        that both methods were used regularly. I can see the merits to both systems,
                        and as was stated earlier, I'm sure the tankers would use whatever system
                        was available.

                        Thanks to everyone for posting information. Keep it coming.

                        Ron

                        --- In G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> , "Russ Morgan"
                        <morganru@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                        > Thanks Russ Morgan
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                        [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                        Kurt
                        > Laughlin
                        > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:37 PM
                        > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I believe that the desired connection was metallic links but cloth belts
                        > were used in response to a shortage of strip steel. The cloth belts were
                        an
                        > inferior product with regard to durability and function and were replaced
                        as
                        > soon as possible by links.
                        >
                        > KL
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Russ Morgan
                        Thanks Terry, We shoot the .30 but can t catch the links.....we catch the spent cases but the links spill all over the floor. The links jam the works of the
                        Message 11 of 27 , Mar 24, 2009
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                          Thanks Terry, We shoot the .30 but can't catch the links.....we catch the
                          spent cases but the links spill all over the floor. The links jam the works
                          of the tank......is there any WW2 way to catch links? We use and need
                          belts. Thanks Russ PS come shoot this weekend with us, all are
                          welcome.www.rmfcsa.com



                          From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
                          Warner
                          Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:46 PM
                          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed



                          The empty casings fall out the bottom of the M1919 receiver. About half
                          of the bottom is open, and as the new round is indexed to go into the
                          chamber, it pushes the expended round down off the face of the
                          breechblock. The links are pushed out the right side of the feed slot
                          by the feed pawl as it slides the fresh round to the right in line with
                          the extractor. All quite an intricate dance of pushing, pulling and
                          groping of parts, all heavily lubricated. Not unlike some bars I've
                          frequented.

                          Terry

                          Russ Morgan wrote:

                          > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                          > Thanks Russ Morgan
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • BSteinIPMS@aol.com
                          Thanks, Kurt. That solves one dilemma of whether to use a cloth belt or metal links on the 1/6 scale M5A1 .30 cal. AAMG. The links look better, but the cloth
                          Message 12 of 27 , Mar 25, 2009
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                            Thanks, Kurt. That solves one dilemma of whether to use a cloth belt or metal links on the 1/6 scale M5A1 .30 cal. AAMG. The links look better, but the cloth belt seems more in keeping with historical accuracy circa June 1944.

                            --Bob S.


                            <<Geez, I dunno about that . . . From the "Green Book" official history of WW
                            II: ". . . Metallic belt links were used chiefly in aircraft guns and fabric
                            belts in ground weapons until the closing months of the war when metallic
                            belt links were issued to ground troops."

                            "[In May, 1944] all production [of cloth belts] stopped for about eight
                            months . . . Production of fabric belts for ground machine guns was resumed
                            for a short time after the German breakthrough of December 1944, but in 1945
                            fabric belts gradually gave way to steel links for infantry use."

                            ". . . The temporary shortage of steel and of strip mill and furnace
                            capacity in late 1942 prompted the adoption of .50-caliber fabric belts for
                            aircraft guns."

                            I guess I was thinking of problems with fabric belts in aircraft, but it
                            nonetheless appears that metallic link belts were increasingly used for
                            ground machine guns as the war went on.

                            KL>>

                            <<----- Original Message -----
                            From: BSteinIPMS@...

                            By extension to the G103 group, Kurt, would it be safe to say that most - if
                            not all - M5A1s used cloth belts? I see a number of period photos showing
                            M5A1s with cloth belts, but have not as of yet uncovered any showing the
                            disintegrating metal link ammo feed used on the AAMG for M5A1s.

                            --Bob S. >>




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Russ Morgan
                            Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO? What did the chutes look
                            Message 13 of 27 , Mar 25, 2009
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                              Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                              Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                              What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                              gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?



                              We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                              links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                              mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                              the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                              opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                              should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan



                              From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
                              Laughlin
                              Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed



                              Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                              were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of

                              the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.

                              KL
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Russ Morgan

                              KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • TANKBARRELL@aol.com
                              I have a link chute I removed from an M74 a few years ago, I ll dig it out and post a pic. Adrian Barrell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 27 , Mar 25, 2009
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                                I have a link chute I removed from an M74 a few years ago, I'll dig it out
                                and post a pic.

                                Adrian Barrell


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Kurt Laughlin
                                Hi Russ: No I don t, and I should have copied the M4 one from MHI when I was out there last time. KL ... From: Russ Morgan To: G104@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                Message 15 of 27 , Mar 25, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Russ:

                                  No I don't, and I should have copied the M4 one from MHI when I was out there last time.

                                  KL
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Russ Morgan
                                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 12:59 PM
                                  Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?


                                  Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                  Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                  What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                  gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?

                                  We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                  links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                  mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                  the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                  opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                  should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan

                                  From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
                                  Laughlin
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                  To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed

                                  Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                                  were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of

                                  the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.

                                  KL
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Russ Morgan

                                  KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • 1SG Robert B. Munsey
                                  ... As a tanker with 26 years on US Army tanks from Sheridans to M60 to M1A1 to M1A2SEP tanks, we had no chutes for the M2. The M240 on the M1 yes, but that is
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
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                                    --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Russ Morgan" <morganru@...> wrote:
                                    > We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                    > links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                    > mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                    > the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                    > opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                    > should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan

                                    As a tanker with 26 years on US Army tanks from Sheridans to M60 to M1A1 to M1A2SEP tanks, we had no chutes for the M2. The M240 on the M1 yes, but that is coaxially mounted, and I find in some of the tanks on display on posts have a coax link chute that feeds into the spent brass chute.
                                    But for the ADA weapon, the answer for modern tnaks is no, until the M1 came along and they put it on for the loader's m-240, which is meant for ground engagements only.
                                    Since allot of modern tank components come from older items from the eralier tanks, I would be surprised if there was a brass/link catcher for the AA mount. Yes it is a pain, but it is a pain I had to deal with until I was a tank commander, then PSG, then I was the pain to may Soldiers to clean up the brass by inspections after gunnery.
                                    I agree they can get caught in the weirdiest places and we would always find a couple when we raise the pack for services.

                                    So again I would find it odd if there was a brass/link catcher.

                                    Robert
                                    1SG (ret) US Army 1982-2008
                                  • TANKBARRELL@aol.com
                                    I ve uploaded a couple of pictures of the link chute I have in the photos section. Adrian Barrell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Mar 26, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I've uploaded a couple of pictures of the link chute I have in the photos
                                      section.

                                      Adrian Barrell


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jeff Hain-Matson
                                      Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the photo..... http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg It may be the MWO in question. A
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 3, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the
                                        photo.....

                                        http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg

                                        It may be the MWO in question.

                                        A bag to catch brass, and a box for the links.
                                        --
                                        JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                                        WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                                        717-252-4489 VOICE
                                        717-252-4499 FAX
                                        flmv@... E-MAIL
                                        MVPA #1833
                                        IMPS #1726
                                        MVT #9362

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ
                                        Morgan
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:00 PM
                                        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?

                                        Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                        Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                        What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                        gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?



                                        We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                        links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                        mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                        the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                        opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                        should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan



                                        From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
                                        Laughlin
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                        To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed



                                        Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                                        were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of

                                        the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.

                                        KL
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Russ Morgan

                                        KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                      • ronlapp
                                        Hi Jeff, Thanks for posting the great picture. From all of the comments posted on this topic, to summarize, it would seem that during the majority of the war,
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 4, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Jeff,

                                          Thanks for posting the great picture. From all of the comments posted on this topic, to summarize, it would seem that during the majority of the war, the cloth belt was used for the .30 cal. Arrangements were made to catch the expended shell cases in canvas bags under the guns. As metal links began to be used toward the end of the war and after, the expended links became a problem and methods were developed to catch them and keep them from going everywhere.

                                          Does anyone have any "period" pictures showing the collection bags for the M4 Sherman bow and co ax gun .30 machine gun, or pictures showing the ammuniton loaded in the .30 cal guns, etc?

                                          Thanks.

                                          Ron

                                          --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Hain-Matson" <flmv@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the
                                          > photo.....
                                          >
                                          > http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg
                                          >
                                          > It may be the MWO in question.
                                          >
                                          > A bag to catch brass, and a box for the links.
                                          > --
                                          > JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                                          > WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                                          > 717-252-4489 VOICE
                                          > 717-252-4499 FAX
                                          > flmv@... E-MAIL
                                          > MVPA #1833
                                          > IMPS #1726
                                          > MVT #9362
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russ
                                          > Morgan
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:00 PM
                                          > To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?
                                          >
                                          > Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                          > Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                          > What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                          > gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                          > links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                          > mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                          > the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                          > opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                          > should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurt
                                          > Laughlin
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                          > To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                                          > were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of
                                          >
                                          > the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.
                                          >
                                          > KL
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Russ Morgan
                                          >
                                          > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > **Please trim your replies**
                                          > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                                          > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                                          > **Attachments will be stripped**
                                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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                                          > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
                                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
                                          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                        • Russ Morgan
                                          Thanks Jeff but that is the right side end of the left insert of the 250 round ammo box.......maybe the links dropped in as the ammo belt was going out the
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 7, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks Jeff but that is the right side end of the left insert of the 250
                                            round ammo box.......maybe the links dropped in as the ammo belt was going
                                            out the other side but I doubt they would fall straight down. That mount is
                                            what we have in the Stuart but the G104 mount in #11965 has the two 5/16"
                                            rods that hold the spent shell bag. Thanks for thinking about it. Have
                                            fun Russ Morgan



                                            From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
                                            Hain-Matson
                                            Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:38 AM
                                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: RE: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?



                                            Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the
                                            photo.....

                                            http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg

                                            It may be the MWO in question.

                                            A bag to catch brass, and a box for the links.
                                            --
                                            JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                                            WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                                            717-252-4489 VOICE
                                            717-252-4499 FAX
                                            flmv@... <mailto:flmv%40flmv.net> E-MAIL
                                            MVPA #1833
                                            IMPS #1726
                                            MVT #9362

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                            Russ
                                            Morgan
                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:00 PM
                                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?

                                            Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                            Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                            What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                            gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?

                                            We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                            links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                            mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                            the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                            opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                            should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan

                                            From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                            Kurt
                                            Laughlin
                                            Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                            To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed

                                            Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                                            were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of

                                            the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.

                                            KL
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Russ Morgan

                                            KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            ------------------------------------

                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            **Please trim your replies**
                                            **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                                            **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                                            **Attachments will be stripped**
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            Sherman Register
                                            http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            Yahoo! Groups Links





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • meindertmikemarinus
                                            - Hi guys, on the subject of ammo/link chutes , I have a question : I,ve got here two different canvas bags, one marked : D 34338 bag,metallic link chute and
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 26 3:07 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              - Hi guys,
                                              on the subject of ammo/link chutes , I have a question : I,ve got here two different canvas bags, one marked : D 34338 bag,metallic link chute and the other,which is a 2-piece bag and marked D 80064 bag, empty cartridge case. .Can someone tell me in what vehicle they were used?and do they date to WW II ? Thanks , Mike


                                              -- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Russ Morgan" <morganru@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Thanks Jeff but that is the right side end of the left insert of the 250
                                              > round ammo box.......maybe the links dropped in as the ammo belt was going
                                              > out the other side but I doubt they would fall straight down. That mount is
                                              > what we have in the Stuart but the G104 mount in #11965 has the two 5/16"
                                              > rods that hold the spent shell bag. Thanks for thinking about it. Have
                                              > fun Russ Morgan
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
                                              > Hain-Matson
                                              > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:38 AM
                                              > To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: RE: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the
                                              > photo.....
                                              >
                                              > http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg
                                              >
                                              > It may be the MWO in question.
                                              >
                                              > A bag to catch brass, and a box for the links.
                                              > --
                                              > JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                                              > WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                                              > 717-252-4489 VOICE
                                              > 717-252-4499 FAX
                                              > flmv@... <mailto:flmv%40flmv.net> E-MAIL
                                              > MVPA #1833
                                              > IMPS #1726
                                              > MVT #9362
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                              > Russ
                                              > Morgan
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:00 PM
                                              > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?
                                              >
                                              > Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                              > Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                              > What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                              > gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?
                                              >
                                              > We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching the
                                              > links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                              > mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                              > the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                              > opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                              > should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan
                                              >
                                              > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                              > Kurt
                                              > Laughlin
                                              > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                              > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed
                                              >
                                              > Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there
                                              > were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts of
                                              >
                                              > the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.
                                              >
                                              > KL
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Russ Morgan
                                              >
                                              > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              > **Please trim your replies**
                                              > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                                              > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                                              > **Attachments will be stripped**
                                              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              > Sherman Register
                                              > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
                                              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
                                              > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Russ Morgan
                                              Thanks Mike for helping look for the answers to the empty case and link bag questions. I wish I had a book( anyone know what book) tells the D number for the
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 26 8:28 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Thanks Mike for helping look for the answers to the empty case and link bag
                                                questions. I wish I had a book( anyone know what book) tells the D number
                                                for the canvas. I was told Brent has one but he has not responded to this
                                                site lately. Can you measure the dimensions of the attachment end of the
                                                bag and how many fasteners it has and maybe we can help you figure out what
                                                it fits. Good Luck Russ Morgan



                                                From: G104@yahoogroups.com [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                                meindertmikemarinus
                                                Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:08 AM
                                                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [G104] Re: MWO in 1951 for link chutes?








                                                - Hi guys,
                                                on the subject of ammo/link chutes , I have a question : I,ve got here two
                                                different canvas bags, one marked : D 34338 bag,metallic link chute and the
                                                other,which is a 2-piece bag and marked D 80064 bag, empty cartridge case.
                                                .Can someone tell me in what vehicle they were used?and do they date to WW
                                                II ? Thanks , Mike

                                                -- In G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> , "Russ Morgan"
                                                <morganru@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Thanks Jeff but that is the right side end of the left insert of the 250
                                                > round ammo box.......maybe the links dropped in as the ammo belt was going
                                                > out the other side but I doubt they would fall straight down. That mount
                                                is
                                                > what we have in the Stuart but the G104 mount in #11965 has the two 5/16"
                                                > rods that hold the spent shell bag. Thanks for thinking about it. Have
                                                > fun Russ Morgan
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                                Jeff
                                                > Hain-Matson
                                                > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:38 AM
                                                > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Subject: RE: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Just found a photo of this Bow gun setup. Not sure of the date of the
                                                > photo.....
                                                >
                                                > http://www.flmv.net/images/temp/bow%20gun.jpg
                                                >
                                                > It may be the MWO in question.
                                                >
                                                > A bag to catch brass, and a box for the links.
                                                > --
                                                > JEFF HAIN-MATSON
                                                > WRIGHTSVILLE PA
                                                > 717-252-4489 VOICE
                                                > 717-252-4499 FAX
                                                > flmv@... <mailto:flmv%40flmv.net> E-MAIL
                                                > MVPA #1833
                                                > IMPS #1726
                                                > MVT #9362
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                                > Russ
                                                > Morgan
                                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:00 PM
                                                > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Subject: [G104] MWO in 1951 for link chutes?
                                                >
                                                > Thanks Kurt, that clears up why no apparent chute in the
                                                > Stuart......obsolete by 1951. Do you by chance have any scans of that MWO?
                                                > What did the chutes look like in 1951? I wonder if it covers the 75 mm M3
                                                > gun in the early mount or if it only covers the 76 mm later stuff?
                                                >
                                                > We have been trying to find pieces and parts to use/modify for catching
                                                the
                                                > links in the Stuart and especially flying all over from the swinging AA
                                                > mount. The brass has no catcher on the pivoting AA mount so it ends up in
                                                > the turret and the back deck and fails down in the radiator
                                                > opening....really a pain to dig them out. Any pictures of the parts we
                                                > should be looking for would be appreciated. Thanks Russ Morgan
                                                >
                                                > From: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > [mailto:G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
                                                > Kurt
                                                > Laughlin
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:55 PM
                                                > To: G104@yahoogroups.com <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                <mailto:G104%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Sherman .30 cal Machine Gun - Cloth or Link fed
                                                >
                                                > Russ: on the floor, I guess. It was enough of a problem that in 1951 there

                                                > were MWOs issued to add a link collecting chute and bag to the bow mounts
                                                of
                                                >
                                                > the M26, M24, and M4 series tanks.
                                                >
                                                > KL
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Russ Morgan
                                                >
                                                > KL, Can you tell me where the metal links fell after they were expended?
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > **Please trim your replies**
                                                > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                                                > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                                                > **Attachments will be stripped**
                                                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > Sherman Register
                                                > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
                                                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
                                                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >





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