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Re: [G104] Re: Surviving Sherman Firefly's

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  • tankmodeler@rogers.com
    Actually, I belive that the cast hulls were easier to produce, it s just that there weren t enough facilities to increase the production rate There were more
    Message 1 of 27 , Feb 17, 2009
      Actually, I belive that the cast hulls were easier to produce, it's just that there weren't enough facilities to increase the production rate There were more places able to weld armour plate thqan to cast it in such large pieces. You have to remember, the M3A1 Lee hull was the largest single-piece armour casting made in the world when it was produced in 1941-2. It was a brand new technology and there weren't very many places capable of the process.
       Paul Roberts
      Editor, Boresight




      ________________________________
      From: Dirk Lombard <dirk.lombard@...>
      To: G104@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:40:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Surviving Sherman Firefly's


      think that the welded hulls were a bit better suited with regards to mass
      production - get more tanks into the field quicker.

      2009/2/17 ronlapp <ronlapp@yahoo. com>

      >
      > Finally, if the cast hull Shermans were slightly superior, why were
      > more not produced? A majority of the Sherman pictures that I see
      > seem to be Shermans with the welded hulls.
      >
      > Just curious. Thanks.
      >
      > Ron
      >
      >
      > --- In G104@yahoogroups. com <G104%40yahoogroups .com>, tankmodeler@ ...
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm not Tom, but the cast hull Shermans are generally believed to
      > have been slightly better than the welded hulls even though the
      > actual properties of the rolled plate were slightly better than the
      > cast armour. First of all, a lot of the front face of the earlier
      > Shermans (pre 47 degree hulls) is actually made up of smaller casting
      > welded together, so the basic material properties of much of
      > the glacis would be identical. On top of that there are two main
      > benefits from the cast hull, the first is the absence of any welds,
      > meaning there are no weak points. Second is the more rounded shape of
      > the cast hull giving slightly more chances for the incoming round to
      > glance off without penetrating.
      > >
      > > It wasn't a whole lot, but it must have been significant enough as
      > subsequent American MBTs all had cast hulls & turrets up until the
      > XMBT-70 and M1.
      > > Paul Roberts
      > > Editor, Boresight
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > From: ronlapp <ronlapp@... >
      >
      > > To: G104@yahoogroups. com <G104%40yahoogroups .com>
      > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:52:43 PM
      > > Subject: [G104] Re: Surviving Sherman Firefly's
      > >
      > >
      > > Thanks Tom.
      > >
      > > Another question regarding the cast versus welded hull. Did the
      > cast
      > > hull offer any advantages over the welded hull? Was one better than
      > > the other in terms of protecting the crew?
      > >
      > > Thanks.
      > >
      > > Ron
      > >
      > > --- In G104@yahoogroups. com, Tom Gannon <tgann11@ > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > To my knowledge, there is a Grizzly Firefly in Canada. This is a
      > > test
      > > > vehicle, but it is a fully converted vehicle. As the only cast
      > hull
      > > > Firefly, it is one of the sources of the rumors about Sherman IIC
      > > > conversions. There is a Firefly ³Lite² in the US. I say that
      > > because it¹s
      > > > only a turret, first mounted on a 47 degree M4A3 and now sitting
      > on
      > > an early
      > > > DV M4A2 hull at APG.
      > > >
      > > > The term ³hybrid² is a British term, official or unofficial I¹m
      > not
      > > sure.
      > > > It refers to the composite hull M4, consisting of a cast front
      > and
      > > welded
      > > > rear.
      > > >
      > > > Tom Gannon
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On 2/11/09 5:03 PM, "Pierre-Olivier" <soldat_ryan@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > well, that's an interesting question.. I should do a list, one
      > of
      > > > > these days.. has anyone something to start with, a rough list?
      > > > >
      > > > > kind regards,
      > > > >
      > > > > Pierre-Olivier
      > > > > http://the.shadock free.fr/Survivin g_Panzers. html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • TANKBARRELL@aol.com
      Ron, Chrysler built 1676 M4 composite hull tanks between August 43 and January 44 out of a total M4 (75) build of 6748 by all manufacturers. A number of both
      Message 2 of 27 , Feb 18, 2009
        Ron,

        Chrysler built 1676 M4 composite hull tanks between August 43 and January 44
        out of a total M4 (75) build of 6748 by all manufacturers. A number of both
        were converted into Fireflies, though I have no idea how many.

        A very rough guess would be around 500 M4 Hybrids. Of approx. 2239 Fireflies
        converted, the first 500 ish were M4A4 based, later rebuilt M4A4s were
        converted as they arrived and M4 and M4 Hybrids were converted from about June 44.

        Hope this helps,

        Adrian


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ronlapp
        Adrian, Thanks for the excellent information. Much appreciated. Ron ... January 44 ... of both ... Fireflies ... were ... about June 44.
        Message 3 of 27 , Feb 18, 2009
          Adrian,

          Thanks for the excellent information. Much appreciated.

          Ron

          --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, TANKBARRELL@... wrote:
          >
          > Ron,
          >
          > Chrysler built 1676 M4 composite hull tanks between August 43 and
          January 44
          > out of a total M4 (75) build of 6748 by all manufacturers. A number
          of both
          > were converted into Fireflies, though I have no idea how many.
          >
          > A very rough guess would be around 500 M4 Hybrids. Of approx. 2239
          Fireflies
          > converted, the first 500 ish were M4A4 based, later rebuilt M4A4s
          were
          > converted as they arrived and M4 and M4 Hybrids were converted from
          about June 44.
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          >
          > Adrian
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Hanno Spoelstra
          ... Hi Ron, Here s my list, which is very dated to say the least, but it is a start if you want to research the number of Firefly survivors and their
          Message 4 of 27 , Feb 26, 2009
            At 19:32 11-2-2009 -0000, you wrote:
            >Finally, does anyone have a list of surviving Sherman Firefly's and
            >their location?

            Hi Ron,

            Here's my list, which is very dated to say the least, but it is a start if
            you want to research the number of Firefly survivors and their whereabouts.

            31 of my 1085 records show Fireflies; note some records list several examples.

            Hope this helps,
            Hanno

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------------------------------------------------------

            Type Town
            Location
            Remarks
            -----------------------------------
            ------------------------------------------------------------

            M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
            range (#1 of 4 target Shermans)
            possibly Sherman VC/ w/o tracks,sprockets,trt.

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

            range (#4 of 4 target Shermans)
            appl.arm.wld.over dvs/ w/o gun/ gutted/ severe damage

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

            range (target)
            hull mg.mount!/ severe damage/ w/o trt.(to KLEIN-WILLEBROEK)

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

            range
            w/o tracks,gun mount,gun

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

            range
            w/o trt

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B

            Tank Museum (ex-Leopoldsburg)
            middle bogies M3 type/ all hatches wld.shut

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B

            Tank Museum
            runner/ appl.arm.wld.over dvs

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B

            range
            appl.arm.wld.over dvs/ w/o tracks,gun

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B

            range
            w/o tracks,trt

            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) KLEIN-WILLEBROEK, B

            Van Enschodtbrug
            Dozer attachments/ ex-Brasschaat ranges/ trt.from Sherman VC

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) LEOPOLDSBURG, B

            railway station (Nicolaylaan)
            trt.3/ hull mg.mount!/ all hatches wld.shut

            Sherman Firefly LEOPOLDSBURG, B

            Gen.Maj.Liebrechtkazerne
            "dripping oil, looks like runner"

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) MARLOIE-MARCHE, B

            private owner
            range damage/ FOR SALE 96-02

            Sherman Firefly STOCKEM (near Arlon), B

            Belgian Army Armour School
            runner/ likely to be Sherman VC

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) TIELT, B

            Polish mem.
            appl.arm.wld.over dvs

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) u/k (MESSANCY (near Arlon),
            B)
            u/k (ex-Victory Memorial Museum)
            w/o gun shield/ muzzle counter weight/ ex-Stockem

            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) WOMMELGEM, B

            private owner + Brussels Tank Museum
            runner

            M4A1/Grizzly (w/Firefly turret) BORDEN, Ont., CDN

            C.F.B. Borden Military Museum
            trial trt.fitted to Grizzly hull/ w/o hull MG mount

            M4A3 HVSS w/Firefly trt. w/o gun SINSHEIM, D

            Auto & Technik Museum
            fire control/observation vehicle/ ex-MEPPEN range

            Sherman Firefly SOEST, D



            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TRIER, D

            BWB museum storage
            non-original gun travel lock

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BOVINGTON CAMP, Wareham,
            Dorset, GB
            Tank Museum (display)


            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AMERSFOORT, NL

            Hist.Verz.Cavalerie, PB Kazerne
            appl.armour wld.over dvs/ German muzzle brake?

            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) NIEUW-MILLIGEN, NL

            Kamp Nieuw-Milligen (Army Base)
            gutted interior

            M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) NIJVERDAL, NL

            Internationaal Oorlogsmuseum
            ex-Leopoldsburg,B ranges/ ex-Scorpios coll./ damaged

            Sherman Firefly u/c (BEEK, NL)

            private owner

            M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AXVALL, S

            Axvall Armour Museum


            M4A2 (w/Firefly turret) ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MD,
            USA
            Ordnance Museum/ line B #11
            dvs/ early track skids/ Firefly trial trt.

            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) PRETORIA (near-), ZA

            Fort Klapperkop
            composite large hatch hull/ ex-Belgium?

            M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TEMPE military base,
            nr.BLOEMFONTEIN, Orange Free State, ZA
            South African Armour Museum
            ex-FORT KLAPPERKOP?

            Sherman Firefly - several examples u/k, ZA

            u/k
            ex-Belgium/ FOR SALE

            ---------------------------
            TOTAL: Printed 31 of the 1085 records.
          • ronlapp
            Thanks Hanno, Much appreciated. Looks like I will have to travel to Europe to see a true Firefly. Would you (or any other members) know how many Fireflies
            Message 5 of 27 , Feb 26, 2009
              Thanks Hanno,

              Much appreciated. Looks like I will have to travel to Europe to see
              a true Firefly. Would you (or any other members) know how many
              Fireflies were the IC Hybrid as opposed to the IC or VC?

              Thanks.

              Ron


              --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, Hanno Spoelstra <HL.Spoelstra@...> wrote:
              >
              > At 19:32 11-2-2009 -0000, you wrote:
              > >Finally, does anyone have a list of surviving Sherman Firefly's
              and
              > >their location?
              >
              > Hi Ron,
              >
              > Here's my list, which is very dated to say the least, but it is a
              start if
              > you want to research the number of Firefly survivors and their
              whereabouts.
              >
              > 31 of my 1085 records show Fireflies; note some records list
              several examples.
              >
              > Hope this helps,
              > Hanno
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              --------
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              --------
              > -----------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Type Town
              > Location
              > Remarks
              > -----------------------------------
              > ------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
              > range (#1 of 4 target Shermans)
              > possibly Sherman VC/ w/o tracks,sprockets,trt.
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
              >
              > range (#4 of 4 target Shermans)
              > appl.arm.wld.over dvs/ w/o gun/ gutted/ severe damage
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
              >
              > range (target)
              > hull mg.mount!/ severe damage/ w/o trt.(to KLEIN-WILLEBROEK)
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
              >
              > range
              > w/o tracks,gun mount,gun
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B
              >
              > range
              > w/o trt
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B
              >
              > Tank Museum (ex-Leopoldsburg)
              > middle bogies M3 type/ all hatches wld.shut
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B
              >
              > Tank Museum
              > runner/ appl.arm.wld.over dvs
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B
              >
              > range
              > appl.arm.wld.over dvs/ w/o tracks,gun
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B
              >
              > range
              > w/o tracks,trt
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) KLEIN-WILLEBROEK, B
              >
              > Van Enschodtbrug
              > Dozer attachments/ ex-Brasschaat ranges/ trt.from Sherman VC
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) LEOPOLDSBURG, B
              >
              > railway station (Nicolaylaan)
              > trt.3/ hull mg.mount!/ all hatches wld.shut
              >
              > Sherman Firefly LEOPOLDSBURG, B
              >
              > Gen.Maj.Liebrechtkazerne
              > "dripping oil, looks like runner"
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) MARLOIE-MARCHE, B
              >
              > private owner
              > range damage/ FOR SALE 96-02
              >
              > Sherman Firefly STOCKEM (near
              Arlon), B
              >
              > Belgian Army Armour School
              > runner/ likely to be Sherman VC
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) TIELT, B
              >
              > Polish mem.
              > appl.arm.wld.over dvs
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) u/k (MESSANCY (near
              Arlon),
              > B)
              > u/k (ex-Victory Memorial Museum)
              > w/o gun shield/ muzzle counter weight/ ex-Stockem
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) WOMMELGEM, B
              >
              > private owner + Brussels Tank Museum
              > runner
              >
              > M4A1/Grizzly (w/Firefly turret) BORDEN, Ont., CDN
              >
              > C.F.B. Borden Military Museum
              > trial trt.fitted to Grizzly hull/ w/o hull MG mount
              >
              > M4A3 HVSS w/Firefly trt. w/o gun SINSHEIM, D
              >
              > Auto & Technik Museum
              > fire control/observation vehicle/ ex-MEPPEN range
              >
              > Sherman Firefly SOEST, D
              >
              >
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TRIER, D
              >
              > BWB museum storage
              > non-original gun travel lock
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BOVINGTON CAMP,
              Wareham,
              > Dorset,
              GB
              > Tank Museum (display)
              >
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AMERSFOORT, NL
              >
              > Hist.Verz.Cavalerie, PB Kazerne
              > appl.armour wld.over dvs/ German muzzle brake?
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) NIEUW-MILLIGEN, NL
              >
              > Kamp Nieuw-Milligen (Army Base)
              > gutted interior
              >
              > M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) NIJVERDAL, NL
              >
              > Internationaal Oorlogsmuseum
              > ex-Leopoldsburg,B ranges/ ex-Scorpios coll./ damaged
              >
              > Sherman Firefly u/c (BEEK, NL)
              >
              > private owner
              >
              > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AXVALL, S
              >
              > Axvall Armour Museum
              >
              >
              > M4A2 (w/Firefly turret) ABERDEEN PROVING
              GROUND, MD,
              > USA
              > Ordnance Museum/ line B #11
              > dvs/ early track skids/ Firefly trial trt.
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) PRETORIA (near-), ZA
              >
              > Fort Klapperkop
              > composite large hatch hull/ ex-Belgium?
              >
              > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TEMPE military base,
              > nr.BLOEMFONTEIN, Orange Free State,
              ZA
              > South African Armour Museum
              > ex-FORT KLAPPERKOP?
              >
              > Sherman Firefly - several examples u/k, ZA
              >
              > u/k
              > ex-Belgium/ FOR SALE
              >
              > ---------------------------
              > TOTAL: Printed 31 of the 1085 records.
              >
            • fons paulussen
              hello ron A friend informed me that there are at least 5 Firefly s in Holland . as for Belgium, the only running Sherman Firefly is our s at the museum depot
              Message 6 of 27 , Mar 5, 2009
                hello ron

                A friend informed me that there are at least 5 Firefly's in Holland . as for Belgium, the only running Sherman Firefly is our's at the museum depot in Kapellen but there are more on display around the country. there are however several fake Firefly here also like the one in Leopoldsburg that is a Firefly turret on a standart M4A4 hull.
                best regards
                fons

                --- On Fri, 2/27/09, ronlapp <ronlapp@...> wrote:

                From: ronlapp <ronlapp@...>
                Subject: [G104] Re: Surviving Sherman Firefly's
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 7:22 AM












                Thanks Hanno,



                Much appreciated. Looks like I will have to travel to Europe to see

                a true Firefly. Would you (or any other members) know how many

                Fireflies were the IC Hybrid as opposed to the IC or VC?



                Thanks.



                Ron



                --- In G104@yahoogroups. com, Hanno Spoelstra <HL.Spoelstra@ ...> wrote:

                >

                > At 19:32 11-2-2009 -0000, you wrote:

                > >Finally, does anyone have a list of surviving Sherman Firefly's

                and

                > >their location?

                >

                > Hi Ron,

                >

                > Here's my list, which is very dated to say the least, but it is a

                start if

                > you want to research the number of Firefly survivors and their

                whereabouts.

                >

                > 31 of my 1085 records show Fireflies; note some records list

                several examples.

                >

                > Hope this helps,

                > Hanno

                >

                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                --------

                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                --------

                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                >

                > Type Town

                > Location

                > Remarks

                > ------------ --------- --------- -----

                > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                >

                > M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

                > range (#1 of 4 target Shermans)

                > possibly Sherman VC/ w/o tracks,sprockets, trt.

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

                >

                > range (#4 of 4 target Shermans)

                > appl.arm.wld. over dvs/ w/o gun/ gutted/ severe damage

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

                >

                > range (target)

                > hull mg.mount!/ severe damage/ w/o trt.(to KLEIN-WILLEBROEK)

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

                >

                > range

                > w/o tracks,gun mount,gun

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRASSCHAAT, B

                >

                > range

                > w/o trt

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B

                >

                > Tank Museum (ex-Leopoldsburg)

                > middle bogies M3 type/ all hatches wld.shut

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BRUSSEL, B

                >

                > Tank Museum

                > runner/ appl.arm.wld. over dvs

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B

                >

                > range

                > appl.arm.wld. over dvs/ w/o tracks,gun

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) HEVERLEE, B

                >

                > range

                > w/o tracks,trt

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) KLEIN-WILLEBROEK, B

                >

                > Van Enschodtbrug

                > Dozer attachments/ ex-Brasschaat ranges/ trt.from Sherman VC

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) LEOPOLDSBURG, B

                >

                > railway station (Nicolaylaan)

                > trt.3/ hull mg.mount!/ all hatches wld.shut

                >

                > Sherman Firefly LEOPOLDSBURG, B

                >

                > Gen.Maj.Liebrechtka zerne

                > "dripping oil, looks like runner"

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) MARLOIE-MARCHE, B

                >

                > private owner

                > range damage/ FOR SALE 96-02

                >

                > Sherman Firefly STOCKEM (near

                Arlon), B

                >

                > Belgian Army Armour School

                > runner/ likely to be Sherman VC

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) TIELT, B

                >

                > Polish mem.

                > appl.arm.wld. over dvs

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) u/k (MESSANCY (near

                Arlon),

                > B)

                > u/k (ex-Victory Memorial Museum)

                > w/o gun shield/ muzzle counter weight/ ex-Stockem

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) WOMMELGEM, B

                >

                > private owner + Brussels Tank Museum

                > runner

                >

                > M4A1/Grizzly (w/Firefly turret) BORDEN, Ont., CDN

                >

                > C.F.B. Borden Military Museum

                > trial trt.fitted to Grizzly hull/ w/o hull MG mount

                >

                > M4A3 HVSS w/Firefly trt. w/o gun SINSHEIM, D

                >

                > Auto & Technik Museum

                > fire control/observation vehicle/ ex-MEPPEN range

                >

                > Sherman Firefly SOEST, D

                >

                >

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TRIER, D

                >

                > BWB museum storage

                > non-original gun travel lock

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) BOVINGTON CAMP,

                Wareham,

                > Dorset,

                GB

                > Tank Museum (display)

                >

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AMERSFOORT, NL

                >

                > Hist.Verz.Cavalerie , PB Kazerne

                > appl.armour wld.over dvs/ German muzzle brake?

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) NIEUW-MILLIGEN, NL

                >

                > Kamp Nieuw-Milligen (Army Base)

                > gutted interior

                >

                > M4 / Sherman IC (Firefly) NIJVERDAL, NL

                >

                > Internationaal Oorlogsmuseum

                > ex-Leopoldsburg, B ranges/ ex-Scorpios coll./ damaged

                >

                > Sherman Firefly u/c (BEEK, NL)

                >

                > private owner

                >

                > M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) AXVALL, S

                >

                > Axvall Armour Museum

                >

                >

                > M4A2 (w/Firefly turret) ABERDEEN PROVING

                GROUND, MD,

                > USA

                > Ordnance Museum/ line B #11

                > dvs/ early track skids/ Firefly trial trt.

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) PRETORIA (near-), ZA

                >

                > Fort Klapperkop

                > composite large hatch hull/ ex-Belgium?

                >

                > M4 / Sherman Hybrid IC (Firefly) TEMPE military base,

                > nr.BLOEMFONTEIN, Orange Free State,

                ZA

                > South African Armour Museum

                > ex-FORT KLAPPERKOP?

                >

                > Sherman Firefly - several examples u/k, ZA

                >

                > u/k

                > ex-Belgium/ FOR SALE

                >

                > ------------ --------- ------

                > TOTAL: Printed 31 of the 1085 records.

                >































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              • Michel van Loon
                Hello Fons I think you re forgeting the M4 Composite of a private collector near Antwerp. Hanno Have you got some more information about the Firefly s in M4A4
                Message 7 of 27 , Mar 5, 2009
                  Hello Fons

                  I think you're forgeting the M4 Composite of a private collector near Antwerp.

                  Hanno

                  Have you got some more information about the Firefly's in
                  M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) MARLOIE-MARCHE, B
                  M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) u/k (MESSANCY (near Arlon)
                  Sherman Firefly SOEST, D

                  You can remove the entry's for
                  Heverlee: Training area closed in the eighties, all armor has been removed.
                  Stockem: No Sherman there, last check was end of 2008.

                  You can add:
                  Clermont: Sherman Vc at the Clermont Remember Museum, muzzle brake is removed to look like a M4A4(76).
                  Marche en Famenne: Sherman Vc at the army barracks, a hulk from the Brasschaat range. Outside restored, inside ... Horror.

                  Michel

                  --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, fons paulussen <tankfreak1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > hello ron
                  >
                  > A friend informed me that there are at least 5 Firefly's in Holland . as for Belgium, the only running Sherman Firefly is our's at the museum depot in Kapellen but there are more on display around the country. there are however several fake Firefly here also like the one in Leopoldsburg that is a Firefly turret on a standart M4A4 hull.
                  > best regards
                  > fons
                  >
                • fons paulussen
                  indeed i forgot Paul,s hybrid Firefly. that makes 2 runners in Belgium soon to be followed by one on Holland. ... From: Michel van Loon
                  Message 8 of 27 , Mar 6, 2009
                    indeed i forgot Paul,s hybrid Firefly. that makes 2 runners in Belgium soon to be followed by one on Holland.

                    --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Michel van Loon <michelvanloon@...> wrote:

                    From: Michel van Loon <michelvanloon@...>
                    Subject: [G104] Re: Surviving Sherman Firefly's
                    To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 9:56 PM












                    Hello Fons



                    I think you're forgeting the M4 Composite of a private collector near Antwerp.



                    Hanno



                    Have you got some more information about the Firefly's in

                    M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) MARLOIE-MARCHE, B

                    M4A4 / Sherman VC (Firefly) u/k (MESSANCY (near Arlon)

                    Sherman Firefly SOEST, D



                    You can remove the entry's for

                    Heverlee: Training area closed in the eighties, all armor has been removed.

                    Stockem: No Sherman there, last check was end of 2008.



                    You can add:

                    Clermont: Sherman Vc at the Clermont Remember Museum, muzzle brake is removed to look like a M4A4(76).

                    Marche en Famenne: Sherman Vc at the army barracks, a hulk from the Brasschaat range. Outside restored, inside ... Horror.



                    Michel



                    --- In G104@yahoogroups. com, fons paulussen <tankfreak1@ ...> wrote:

                    >

                    > hello ron

                    >

                    > A friend informed me that there are at least 5 Firefly's in Holland . as for Belgium, the only running Sherman Firefly is our's at the museum depot in Kapellen but there are more on display around the country. there are however several fake Firefly here also like the one in Leopoldsburg that is a Firefly turret on a standart M4A4 hull.

                    > best regards

                    > fons

                    >































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