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Littlefield Sherman Jumbo restoration pics

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  • Chris Hughes
    I just updated my site with 5 new pics of the Littlefield Sherman Jumbo restoration. Here s the link: http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 20, 2007
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      I just updated my site with 5 new pics of the Littlefield Sherman Jumbo
      restoration. Here's the link:

      http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
      <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm>



      Chris "toadman" Hughes

      http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com
      <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com>





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • CHARLES RAY
      Chris, Great site...and great photos. As a kid in the Civil Air Patrol we had a book to use when identifying different planes we spotted as they crossed our
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 20, 2007
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        Chris,
        Great site...and great photos. As a kid in the Civil Air Patrol we had a book to use when identifying different planes we spotted as they crossed our town. Can you recommend a "Tank Spotter's Book" that can be used for guys like me to get started on this great hobby. I enjoy all the posts but come up short when you all are talking about Sherman variations and technical gargon. I am studying.
        Billy


        Chris Hughes <toadman11@...> wrote:

        I just updated my site with 5 new pics of the Littlefield Sherman Jumbo
        restoration. Here's the link:

        http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
        <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm>

        Chris "toadman" Hughes

        http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com
        <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com>

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joe DeMarco
        Hi Chris http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm Thanks for documenting the restoration of the MVTF Jumbo! Those guys are doing their usual magnificent
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 25, 2007
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          Hi Chris

          http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm


          Thanks for documenting the restoration of the MVTF Jumbo! Those guys are doing their usual magnificent job with that. Guess that will be the only running M4A3E2 when it's completed. I remember squeezing in, & crawling under the one in the LST Bldg. at Ft. Knox to get the part number of the Jumbo differential housing, which can be clearly seen in your "restore 38" photo. I believe 256 is the serial number of the housing, indicating they made at least 256 of them, even though Fisher only made 254 Jumbos. You don't see many with the diff. apart from the power train. By the tank's serial number, that would have been the 6th M4A3E2, accepted in May 1944. Fisher stamped a loose build number on the left front side of their Shermans & TDs. They had a letter code to identify the model, such as an A prefix for M4A3(75) Wet. I've never seen a Jumbo's before, so greatly appreciate your "restore 35" photo, which shows an E with an unclear number after, maybe 6 or 8. I would assume all the Jumbos were assigned an E prefix.
          The Jumbos were highly sought after, so it's too bad they didn't think to make 1000 of them. The ETO tried to order more with a 76mm gun & HVSS, but it was too late.

          Great stuff, Chris!

          Joe




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • fbscottjr1950
          Hi Joe, Thank you for finding out of the possibility of more than 254 E2 s built. Do you know where Littlefield got this differential housing from? Since we
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 25, 2007
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            Hi Joe,

            Thank you for finding out of the possibility of more than 254 E2's
            built. Do you know where Littlefield got this differential housing
            from? Since we haven't heard of what happened to the Camp Ripley's
            #2 E2, could this one come from there?
            This last year I was able to expand my list of E2 USA Registration
            Numbers by 6 for a total of 18, starting with 3082921 to 3083176.
            But my math kept coming up with 255 E2's. This includes Aberdeen's
            three Pilot #1-#3 T-33's, that were built after WWII.
            I too would like to thank Chris for his wonderful job following the
            restoration of this E2.

            Scotty


            --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DeMarco" <snick1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Chris
            >
            > http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
            >
            >
            > Thanks for documenting the restoration of the MVTF Jumbo! Those
            guys are doing their usual magnificent job with that. Guess that
            will be the only running M4A3E2 when it's completed. I remember
            squeezing in, & crawling under the one in the LST Bldg. at Ft. Knox
            to get the part number of the Jumbo differential housing, which can
            be clearly seen in your "restore 38" photo. I believe 256 is the
            serial number of the housing, indicating they made at least 256 of
            them, even though Fisher only made 254 Jumbos. You don't see many
            with the diff. apart from the power train. By the tank's serial
            number, that would have been the 6th M4A3E2, accepted in May 1944.
            Fisher stamped a loose build number on the left front side of their
            Shermans & TDs. They had a letter code to identify the model, such
            as an A prefix for M4A3(75) Wet. I've never seen a Jumbo's before,
            so greatly appreciate your "restore 35" photo, which shows an E with
            an unclear number after, maybe 6 or 8. I would assume all the Jumbos
            were assigned an E prefix.
            > The Jumbos were highly sought after, so it's too bad they didn't
            think to make 1000 of them. The ETO tried to order more with a 76mm
            gun & HVSS, but it was too late.
            >
            > Great stuff, Chris!
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Dirk Thielens
            Hi, Yes, i think it will be a great job when it s done. But if i m well informed the M4A3E2 Jumbo of the Belgian Army Museum will also be restored in running
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 26, 2007
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              Hi,

              Yes, i think it will be a great job when it's done. But if i'm well informed the M4A3E2 Jumbo of the Belgian Army Museum will also be restored in running condition. It used to stand in the Brussels Army Museum but apparently it was transferred to one of the restoration depots.

              Cheers,

              Dirk

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: fbscottjr1950
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:53 AM
              Subject: [G104] Re: Littlefield Sherman Jumbo restoration pics


              Hi Joe,

              Thank you for finding out of the possibility of more than 254 E2's
              built. Do you know where Littlefield got this differential housing
              from? Since we haven't heard of what happened to the Camp Ripley's
              #2 E2, could this one come from there?
              This last year I was able to expand my list of E2 USA Registration
              Numbers by 6 for a total of 18, starting with 3082921 to 3083176.
              But my math kept coming up with 255 E2's. This includes Aberdeen's
              three Pilot #1-#3 T-33's, that were built after WWII.
              I too would like to thank Chris for his wonderful job following the
              restoration of this E2.

              Scotty

              --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Joe DeMarco" <snick1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Chris
              >
              > http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
              >
              >
              > Thanks for documenting the restoration of the MVTF Jumbo! Those
              guys are doing their usual magnificent job with that. Guess that
              will be the only running M4A3E2 when it's completed. I remember
              squeezing in, & crawling under the one in the LST Bldg. at Ft. Knox
              to get the part number of the Jumbo differential housing, which can
              be clearly seen in your "restore 38" photo. I believe 256 is the
              serial number of the housing, indicating they made at least 256 of
              them, even though Fisher only made 254 Jumbos. You don't see many
              with the diff. apart from the power train. By the tank's serial
              number, that would have been the 6th M4A3E2, accepted in May 1944.
              Fisher stamped a loose build number on the left front side of their
              Shermans & TDs. They had a letter code to identify the model, such
              as an A prefix for M4A3(75) Wet. I've never seen a Jumbo's before,
              so greatly appreciate your "restore 35" photo, which shows an E with
              an unclear number after, maybe 6 or 8. I would assume all the Jumbos
              were assigned an E prefix.
              > The Jumbos were highly sought after, so it's too bad they didn't
              think to make 1000 of them. The ETO tried to order more with a 76mm
              gun & HVSS, but it was too late.
              >
              > Great stuff, Chris!
              >
              > Joe
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Joe DeMarco
              Scotty, the official acceptance figure for the M4A3E2 was 254. 250 were sent to the ETO. They knew that 254 had been made, & wanted all of them, & based on a
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 26, 2007
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                Scotty, the official acceptance figure for the M4A3E2 was 254. 250 were sent to the ETO. They knew that 254 had been made, & wanted all of them, & based on a misunderstanding, the guys there were desparately seeking the missing 4. As best I can tell, 4 remained in the US for testing, probably to destruction. A Production Order generally included a provision for maintenance spare parts, including a number of extra power train units, so this could account for a diff housing with a serial number higher than the number of tanks accepted. I don't have a clue where they got the diff, but think it's great they found one. Fisher stamped the tank serial number on the right & left edges of their diffs, but, IIRC, the guys couldn't read it, or it wasn't there on the MVTF unit.

                >This last year I was able to expand my list of E2 USA Registration Numbers by 6 for a total of 18, starting with 3082921 to 3083176.

                I'm almost positive the first M4A3E2 was USA 3082923. If you have a photo of a Jumbo that clearly shows 3082921 painted on, I'd be VERY interested to see it.

                >Aberdeen's three Pilot #1-#3 T-33's, that were built after WWII.

                A good number of Jumbos were returned to the US from the ETO. Just to be clear, the 3 T33 Flamethrowers were not new, but postwar conversions, retrofitted with HVSS.
                >the M4A3E2 Jumbo of the Belgian Army Museum will also be restored in running condition.

                Hi Dirk, that's good news! That one has been reported as S/N 50511, & would have been accepted in July, 1944. The Jumbos followed the transition of the rest of the M4A3 series from 2 small weep holes on the turret splash to one large one. You can sort of date a tank by that, even if you don't know the serial number. Just looking at the E2s at Camp Ripley & the MVTF, I would conclude they were built before the ones in Belgium & Vilseck. Another clue is the build number stamped on the left front side. I had forgotten that Dan Reed sent a photo that clearly showed E9 stamped there on the Ripley. I would guess the BTMs Jumbo would have something around E190 stamped on it. If you ever happen to see that, would appreciate a report.

                Joe












                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kurt Laughlin
                ... From: Joe DeMarco Scotty, the official acceptance figure for the M4A3E2 was 254. 250 were sent to the ETO. They knew that 254 had been made, & wanted all
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 26, 2007
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Joe DeMarco

                  Scotty, the official acceptance figure for the M4A3E2 was 254. 250 were sent
                  to the ETO. They knew that 254 had been made, & wanted all of them, & based
                  on a misunderstanding, the guys there were desparately seeking the missing
                  4. As best I can tell, 4 remained in the US for testing, probably to
                  destruction. A Production Order generally included a provision for
                  maintenance spare parts, including a number of extra power train units, so
                  this could account for a diff housing with a serial number higher than the
                  number of tanks accepted.
                  ----- Original Message -----

                  It's important to note that every large casting was serialized so as to keep
                  track of things in case of problems discovered after they were cast such as
                  improper alloying, heat treatment, or inspection. Also remember that the
                  serialization is taking place in a manufacturing environment so it is
                  inevitable that there will be a few rejects and development pieces.
                  Finally, something like 1 in 10 of the first 100 units and 1 in 25 or 50 of
                  later units were ballistically tested to destruction. So, excluding the
                  spares Joe mentioned, I would say that a "loss" of 20 or so castings on an
                  order of 254 would not be unreasonable.

                  KL
                • shawn ferguson
                  Wasn t one turned into that odd demo tank with HVSS? I dont the bible with me for a page number. ...
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 26, 2007
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                    Wasn't one turned into that odd demo tank with HVSS? I dont the bible with
                    me for a page number.


                    >From: "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...>
                    >Reply-To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <G104@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Littlefield Sherman Jumbo restoration pics
                    >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:57:07 -0400
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: Joe DeMarco
                    >
                    >Scotty, the official acceptance figure for the M4A3E2 was 254. 250 were
                    >sent
                    >to the ETO. They knew that 254 had been made, & wanted all of them, & based
                    >on a misunderstanding, the guys there were desparately seeking the missing
                    >4. As best I can tell, 4 remained in the US for testing, probably to
                    >destruction. A Production Order generally included a provision for
                    >maintenance spare parts, including a number of extra power train units, so
                    >this could account for a diff housing with a serial number higher than the
                    >number of tanks accepted.
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >
                    >It's important to note that every large casting was serialized so as to
                    >keep
                    >track of things in case of problems discovered after they were cast such as
                    >improper alloying, heat treatment, or inspection. Also remember that the
                    >serialization is taking place in a manufacturing environment so it is
                    >inevitable that there will be a few rejects and development pieces.
                    >Finally, something like 1 in 10 of the first 100 units and 1 in 25 or 50 of
                    >later units were ballistically tested to destruction. So, excluding the
                    >spares Joe mentioned, I would say that a "loss" of 20 or so castings on an
                    >order of 254 would not be unreasonable.
                    >
                    >KL
                    >

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                  • Joe DeMarco
                    Shawn, Mr. Hunnicutt has a blurb about the demolition tank T31 on page 440. The turret was soft plate, so it looks heavier than it was. The project was
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 27, 2007
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                      Shawn, Mr. Hunnicutt has a blurb about the demolition tank T31 on page 440. The turret was soft plate, so it looks heavier than it was. The project was cancelled with the end of the war. The pilot employed a regular M4A3(76)HVSS hull - USA 30114128.

                      Joe


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • shawn ferguson
                      Ok I was thinking of the T33 ... _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 27, 2007
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                        Ok I was thinking of the T33


                        >From: "Joe DeMarco" <snick1@...>
                        >Reply-To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: "G104" <G104@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Subject: Re: [G104] Re: Littlefield Sherman Jumbo restoration pics
                        >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:41:03 -0400
                        >
                        >Shawn, Mr. Hunnicutt has a blurb about the demolition tank T31 on page 440.
                        >The turret was soft plate, so it looks heavier than it was. The project was
                        >cancelled with the end of the war. The pilot employed a regular
                        >M4A3(76)HVSS hull - USA 30114128.
                        >
                        >Joe
                        >
                        >
                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

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                      • Chris Hughes
                        Hello everyone, I just updated my site with the following pics: 8 pics of the Littlefield M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo restoration:
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 1, 2007
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                          Hello everyone,
                          I just updated my site with the following pics:

                          8 pics of the Littlefield M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo restoration:
                          http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm
                          <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/restore.htm>

                          Enjoy!

                          Chris "toadman" Hughes

                          http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com
                          <http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/>



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • shawn ferguson
                          Well looking at that diff cover, I guess that explains where it was found. Those range scars add some character to the tank.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 2, 2007
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                            Well looking at that diff cover, I guess that explains where it was found.
                            Those range scars add some character to the tank.

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                          • Chris Hughes
                            Don t know where the tank came from but I believe the diff cover came from Camp Ripley. The s/n on it is: 5053(?)3 or 5057(?)3. Chris Hughes
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 2, 2007
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                              Don't know where the tank came from but I believe the diff cover came from Camp Ripley. The s/n on it is: 5053(?)3 or 5057(?)3.

                              Chris Hughes
                              http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Joe DeMarco
                              Hi Chris, ... http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us Thanks for sending the close up photos. I like to keep
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                Hi Chris,

                                >The s/n on it is: 5053(?)3 or 5057(?)3.

                                http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

                                Thanks for sending the close up photos. I like to keep track of serial numbers from surviving Shermans partly to confirm that they were actually assigned to a particular model. For instance, I think the last M4A3E2 was assigned S/N 50579. Since there's a S/N stamped on the diff, whatever it is, it's obvious it was assigned to a Jumbo. Since they only made 254 M4A3E2s, & that diff housing is S/N 256, I suspect it might have been on the later one - S/N 50573. In any case, the MVTF Jumbo appears to have the hull of one of the first ones made, the diff of one of the last ones, & I suspect the Union Steel turret, with serial number 111, probably came from one that was made about in the middle of the pack.

                                Joe



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