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Sherman T-145502

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  • roddy1011
    Hi to all - Recently bought a neat little pic of a Sherman climbing on/off a tank transporter, prob in Egypt. I have uploaded the pic (Item 37 - listed as
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
      Hi to all -

      Recently bought a neat little pic of a Sherman climbing on/off a tank
      transporter, prob in Egypt. I have uploaded the pic (Item 37 - listed
      as 'T-145502'). Can any member ident the unit/veh ?

      As a starter for ten, Peter Brown stated:

      "Sherman looks like somewhere in the Middle East, the trailer idler
      wheels on the bogies suggest after Alamein and it could be Syria or
      somewhere on Persia-Iraq Force. Big numbers like 644 usually denoted
      Army-level units, unusual for them to have a Sherman."

      "Something is nagging away at me and saying Polish. The square-shaped
      bar on the engine deck did appear on some Polish Shermans in Italy to
      stop infantry falling off but I cannot tie 644 to a Polish unit."

      Any other ideas from anyone ?
    • Jim Webster
      ... A slightly larger image would have helped tremendously! -- TTFN Jim ICQ: 58721472 *********************** http://www.jedsite.info JED Military Equipment
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
        roddy1011 wrote:
        >
        > Hi to all -
        >
        > Recently bought a neat little pic of a Sherman climbing on/off a tank
        > transporter, prob in Egypt. I have uploaded the pic (Item 37 - listed
        > as 'T-145502'). Can any member ident the unit/veh ?

        A slightly larger image would have helped tremendously!

        --
        TTFN
        Jim
        ICQ: 58721472
        ***********************
        http://www.jedsite.info
        JED Military Equipment
        ***********************
      • Kurt Laughlin
        ... From: Jim Webster To: G104@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [G104] Sherman T-145502 A slightly larger image would have
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jim Webster
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:10 AM
          Subject: Re: [G104] Sherman T-145502

          A slightly larger image would have helped tremendously!

          ----- Original Message -----

          In Yahoo it seems you have to post in Files to get an expandable image. In
          Photos, no one but the poster can see the large view.

          KL
        • Pete Allton
          Bit small to see much but if 644 is an arm of service number then the only 644 i know of is HQ NZ Maadi Camp oct 41. Pete
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
            Bit small to see much but if 644 is an 'arm of service' number then the
            only '644' i know of is HQ NZ Maadi Camp oct'41.

            Pete
            >
            > Recently bought a neat little pic of a Sherman climbing on/off a tank
            > transporter, prob in Egypt. I have uploaded the pic (Item 37 - listed
            > as 'T-145502'). Can any member ident the unit/veh ?
            >
            > As a starter for ten, Peter Brown stated:
            >
            > "Sherman looks like somewhere in the Middle East, the trailer idler
            > wheels on the bogies suggest after Alamein and it could be Syria or
            > somewhere on Persia-Iraq Force. Big numbers like 644 usually denoted
            > Army-level units, unusual for them to have a Sherman."
            >
            > "Something is nagging away at me and saying Polish. The square-shaped
            > bar on the engine deck did appear on some Polish Shermans in Italy to
            > stop infantry falling off but I cannot tie 644 to a Polish unit."
            >
            > Any other ideas from anyone ?
            >
          • roddy1011
            Ref pic - have now put a copy into the Files - is that large enough ? Roddy
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
              Ref pic - have now put a copy into the Files - is that large enough ?

              Roddy
            • WhiteWolf
              ... Sorry Roddy, its not appearing much bigger. How big is the file you have stored on your system? About a 100 or 200 Kb file would be much better (this one
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 11, 2005
                --- "roddy1011" <roddy1011@y...> wrote:
                > Ref pic - have now put a copy into the Files
                > - is that large enough ?
                >
                > Roddy

                Sorry Roddy, its not appearing much bigger. How
                big is the file you have stored on your system?
                About a 100 or 200 Kb file would be much better
                (this one is only 12kb)

                From the blow-up I achieved in Corel, the engine
                deck screams M4A3 to me. The engine grilles are
                full width between the sponson angles, and the
                A2 grilles weren't, were they?

                It also has a high-bustle turret with a split-type
                commanders hatch. Anyone else notice that the RTO
                appears to be wearing what looks like a post-war
                ~full~ tanker helmet?

                WhiteWolf
                (thinking it could be a post-War Isreali Sherman)
              • ceolredmonger
                ... shaped ... to ... I can see a bin on the back of the turret which could back up the Polish idea. Polish units transferred the distinct stowage bin from the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 13, 2005
                  > "Something is nagging away at me and saying Polish. The square-
                  shaped
                  > bar on the engine deck did appear on some Polish Shermans in Italy
                  to
                  > stop infantry falling off but I cannot tie 644 to a Polish unit."
                  >
                  > Any other ideas from anyone ?

                  I can see a bin on the back of the turret which could back up the
                  Polish idea.

                  Polish units transferred the distinct stowage bin from the rear of
                  the Crusader turret to their Shermans. This became a standard
                  fitting even when the originals ran out.

                  I can't say other did not do it but I think it is a good indicator.

                  I will check out my Polish sources tonight.

                  Keith Matthews
                • Peter Brown
                  The Crusader style bin was widely used first in North Africa, then in the Middle East and Mediterranean areas generally. I suspect most were new construction
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 13, 2005
                    The "Crusader" style bin was widely used first in North Africa, then in the Middle East and Mediterranean areas generally. I suspect most were new construction and not from old Crusaders.

                    As to the earlier comment on this tank being an M4A3, only seven A3 went to Lend-Lease and I doubt any made it to an active theatre. My money is on a Sherman III M4A2


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • ceolredmonger
                    Hi Peter Could you clarify your post please - by widely used are you saying I am in error associating the bin with Polish units or backing up my point? I
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 13, 2005
                      Hi Peter

                      Could you clarify your post please - by "widely used" are you saying
                      I am in error associating the bin with Polish units or backing up my
                      point? I don't mind bowing to your experience, I would just like to
                      be clear.

                      I have a Polish publication, from immediatly post-war, which
                      features the Polish armoured Division in N Africa and Italy. The bin
                      is used right up to the end. Photos of units show them fitted to all
                      the Shermans except 76mm. Later ones are more angular but all have
                      the diagonal split for lid/box.

                      Regards
                      Keith Matthews


                      --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Brown" <peter.brown87@t...>
                      wrote:
                      > The "Crusader" style bin was widely used first in North Africa,
                      then in the Middle East and Mediterranean areas generally. I suspect
                      most were new construction and not from old Crusaders.
                      >
                    • Peter Brown
                      Keith, The Crusader style stowage bin was used on the first Shermans at El Alamein and later in Tunisia, as well as in later campaigns so is not unique to
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 13, 2005
                        Keith,

                        The "Crusader" style stowage bin was used on the first Shermans at El Alamein and later in Tunisia, as well as in later campaigns so is not unique to Polish units. Shermans in NW Europe have the square-style box on the turret rear.

                        Peter


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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