Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Is this an M4A1E8 or not?

Expand Messages
  • Roy Chow
    Hello fellow Sherman fans: http://www.network54.com/Realm/modelpix2/M4A1E8inwwII.jpg This is a scan from Forty s Sherman book, page 75. There s a discussion
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello fellow Sherman fans:

      http://www.network54.com/Realm/modelpix2/M4A1E8inwwII.jpg

      This is a scan from Forty's Sherman book, page 75. There's a discussion
      about this photo over on the Allied DG at Missing-lynx.

      I would like to think that it is a cast hull late M4A1 w/HVSS and late T23
      turret. One well-known author -- ok, it's Steve Zaloga-- thinks it's
      more likely an M4A3. Like I said, I'm biased cuz I really want it to be
      the cast hull...

      What do you all think?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • pfarr karl-heinz
      Roy For what i can see its an m4a1 cast hull. Big hatch. I could not find a reason that Mr Zaloga can came up with M4A3. I see womans curves there,not rolled
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Roy
        For what i can see its an m4a1 cast hull.
        Big hatch.
        I could not find a reason that Mr Zaloga can came up
        with M4A3.
        I see womans curves there,not rolled steel!
        It could be retouched picture?
        Bye
        KH
        --- Roy Chow <roy_chow@...> wrote:

        > Hello fellow Sherman fans:
        >
        >
        http://www.network54.com/Realm/modelpix2/M4A1E8inwwII.jpg
        >
        > This is a scan from Forty's Sherman book, page 75.
        > There's a discussion
        > about this photo over on the Allied DG at
        > Missing-lynx.
        >
        > I would like to think that it is a cast hull late
        > M4A1 w/HVSS and late T23
        > turret. One well-known author -- ok, it's Steve
        > Zaloga-- thinks it's
        > more likely an M4A3. Like I said, I'm biased cuz I
        > really want it to be
        > the cast hull...
        >
        > What do you all think?
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >




        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
        http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
      • Kurt Laughlin
        Roy: Can you make a hi-res scan of just the tank? KL ... From: Roy Chow To: shermantankmodeler@yahoogroups.com ; G104@yahoogroups.com Cc: Jeffery W. Larkin
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Roy:

          Can you make a hi-res scan of just the tank?

          KL
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Roy Chow
          To: shermantankmodeler@yahoogroups.com ; G104@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Jeffery W. Larkin
          Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 4:43 PM
          Subject: [G104] Is this an M4A1E8 or not?


          Hello fellow Sherman fans:

          http://www.network54.com/Realm/modelpix2/M4A1E8inwwII.jpg

          This is a scan from Forty's Sherman book, page 75. There's a discussion
          about this photo over on the Allied DG at Missing-lynx.

          I would like to think that it is a cast hull late M4A1 w/HVSS and late T23
          turret. One well-known author -- ok, it's Steve Zaloga-- thinks it's
          more likely an M4A3. Like I said, I'm biased cuz I really want it to be
          the cast hull...

          What do you all think?

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          **Please trim your replies**
          **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
          **Plain ASCII Text only please**
          **Attachments will be stripped**
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Sherman Register
          http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor




          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104/

          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          G104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Smart
          ... What about a composite hull M4? I know it is a grainy photo but what little I can see of the rear deck MAY have the sharper edges of a welded hull. Not
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 1, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            At 02:41 PM 9/1/2004 -0700, you wrote:
            >Roy
            >For what i can see its an m4a1 cast hull.
            >Big hatch.
            >I could not find a reason that Mr Zaloga can came up
            >with M4A3.
            >I see womans curves there,not rolled steel!
            >It could be retouched picture?
            >Bye
            >KH

            What about a composite hull M4? I know it is a grainy photo but what
            little I can see of the rear deck MAY have the sharper edges of a welded
            hull. Not like folks haven't been fooled by composite hulls before :-)

            Bob Smart (bsmart@...)
          • Mike Canaday
            As far as I can tell its an M4A3, not an M4A1 or a composite. The picture is pretty good in the copy of Forty s book that I have. The glacis corners are
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 2, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              As far as I can tell its' an M4A3, not an M4A1 or a composite. The
              picture is pretty good in the copy of Forty's book that I have. The
              glacis corners are visible. The horn is located out board of the left
              head light and the lifting lugs are in the late production position,
              almost on the edge of the glacis. The M4A1 large hatch hull's horn
              was inboard of the headlight, and the lifting lugs were lower in
              closer in.

              Mike Canaday
            • bobskat@cavenet.com
              Speaking of Forty s book, there is a fairly good photo of my tank (turret no. 60) ib it. My Forty book is still somewhere in the garage, unpacked, but I do
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Speaking of Forty's book, there is a fairly good photo of my tank (turret no. 60) ib it. My Forty book is still somewhere in the garage, unpacked, but I do remember when the photo was taken. It was on October 20th, 1944, about twenty minutes or so after we had rolled ashore on Leyte, Philippines. That's me driving as you can plainly not see. The picture shows the brething stacks still in place, there's some grass & bamboo huts nearby, and an infantryman near, also.I forget whether or not our tanks' name showed in this picture..."CUTTHROATS". Old 60 broght through the Philippine battle and on to Okinawa where they finally knocked her out on April 30th.


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Mike Canaday [mailto:mmcalc@...]
                Sent: 9/2/2004 7:25:20 PM
                To: G104@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [G104] Re: Is this an M4A1E8 or not?

                > As far as I can tell its' an M4A3, not an M4A1 or a composite. The
                > picture is pretty good in the copy of Forty's book that I have. The
                > glacis corners are visible. The horn is located out board of the left
                > head light and the lifting lugs are in the late production position,
                > almost on the edge of the glacis. The M4A1 large hatch hull's horn
                > was inboard of the headlight, and the lifting lugs were lower in
                > closer in.
                >
                > Mike Canaday
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > **Please trim your replies**
                > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
                > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
                > **Attachments will be stripped**
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > Sherman Register
                > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
                > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Joseph DeMarco
                Hi Bob, The photo of # 60 isn t in my copy of George Forty s Sherman. It appears to have been published in various newspapers as an AP Wirephoto. It s in a
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 5, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Bob,

                  The photo of # 60 isn't in my copy of George Forty's "Sherman."
                  It appears to have been published in various newspapers as an "AP Wirephoto."
                  It's in a book of pages from the "Evening Bulletin" (Philadelphia).
                  The headline is "MacAuthur Pushes Toward Clark Field," dated
                  Jan. 11, 1945. It may have been used on that date simply because
                  it shows some action in the Philippines. (Also on that day, Notre Dame
                  beat Little Flower 25-18 in Girls' Basketball.)

                  The caption on the back of the Archives print is:
                  "10/31/44 Cleaning Out a Grass Hut Village
                  An American General Sherman Tank advances through a village of
                  grass huts on the island of Leyte in the central Philippines, clearing
                  the way for infantrymen who are hunting for Japanese snipers.
                  An Alligator, or armed amphibious tractor, is shielding the men
                  from stray bullets."

                  I've bothered you over the years with a lot of dumb questions
                  about trivial aspects of your Shermans, including "Did you
                  ever call them "Shermans"?"'

                  I'm having trouble buying the idea that Americans did not refer
                  to their tanks as "Shermans." There are too many captions & reports
                  that say otherwise. While the brass initially rejected the naming of
                  tanks in the British fashion, they obviously came around...

                  Hope things are good up on your mountain,

                  Joe
                • cobra6@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/2/04 10:26:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Steve Zaloga, Mike and others on the A3 side have got it right. See the zoom of the beast
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 20, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In a message dated 9/2/04 10:26:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    mmcalc@... writes:

                    > As far as I can tell its' an M4A3, not an M4A1 or a composite. The
                    > picture is pretty good in the copy of Forty's book that I have. The
                    > glacis corners are visible. The horn is located out board of the left
                    > head light and the lifting lugs are in the late production position,
                    > almost on the edge of the glacis. The M4A1 large hatch hull's horn
                    > was inboard of the headlight, and the lifting lugs were lower in
                    > closer in.
                    >
                    > Mike Canaday
                    >

                    Steve Zaloga, Mike and others on the A3 side have got it right. See the zoom
                    of the beast below. Only an A3 (or A2) would have a straight cut shoulder
                    profile like this (arrow). Close examination of the profile forward of the turret
                    is a good way to tell general types. The composite hull and normal M4A1 hull
                    fronts are easily separated this way too. The composite M4 has squared off
                    shoulders so that the flat plate rear fits properly, the A1 does not.

                    Those looking for a combat ETO M4A1E8-76mm will have to keep looking.

                    Pete Harlem



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.