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Re: [G104] Mk IIA [M4A1 76(W)] tanks - translation of word "sponson"

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  • Paul Roberts
    ... Greg, In English parlance we know that sponson is the area over the tracks. The issue is what does a Polish author s translation mean when he refers to the
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 18, 2003
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      Gregory Winters wrote:

      >Sponson is not the turret bustle.
      >
      >Greg Winters
      >
      >Redding, CA
      >
      >>Does anyone know what the Polish author may have meant by this use of
      >>the word "sponson"?
      >>
      >>
      Greg,

      In English parlance we know that sponson is the area over the tracks.
      The issue is what does a Polish author's translation mean when he refers
      to the "sponson" on the _turret_. The person asking the question wanted
      to know what the Polish author could have meant by the translated word
      sponson that is attached to the turret. I believe the various people who
      have responded are correct when they suggest that the Polish author was
      referring to the "bustle" when he said "sponson".

      Paul

      --
      Paul Roberts
      tankmodeler@...

      Scale Tech Distributing
      Scale Model Builders
      http://members.rogers.com/tankmodeler/
    • WhiteWolf
      ... I agree with Paul . He s clearly mistranslated bustle as sponson , and I might guess why : both overhang an main feature , have specific names , and
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 18, 2003
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        --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roberts <tankmodeler@r...> wrote:
        > Gregory Winters wrote:
        >
        >> Sponson is not the turret bustle.
        >>
        >>Greg Winters
        >>Redding, CA
        >>
        >>> Does anyone know what the Polish author may have
        >>> meant by this use of the word "sponson"?
        >
        > Greg,
        >
        > In English parlance we know that sponson is the area
        > over the tracks. The issue is what does a Polish
        > author's translation mean when he refers to the
        > "sponson" on the _turret_.
        >
        > The person asking the question wanted to know what
        > the Polish author could have meant by the translated
        > word sponson that is attached to the turret.
        >
        > I believe the various people who have responded are
        > correct when they suggest that the Polish author was
        > referring to the "bustle" when he said "sponson".
        >
        > Paul Roberts

        I agree with Paul . He's clearly mistranslated 'bustle'
        as 'sponson' , and I might guess why : both overhang an
        main feature , have specific 'names' , and are used to
        stow parts/pieces of the tank's gear ( radio's in the
        bustle , ammo and other stuff in the sponsons ) You want
        to extend that to exterior stowage , both were also used
        as the sponsons often carried track and other gear , or
        even pseudo-armor , and the bustle was usually adorned
        with the crew's gear !

        Look at the TD's ... they came with specific mounts for
        attaching the gear on the outside of the turrets , and
        the ready-ammo bins for the M36 actually sat almost in
        the bustle !

        Think about it a bit , and its easy to see how someone
        not familiar with the language could mistranslate them .

        WhiteWolf (currently detailing a 1/16 M36B1)
      • tlumaczenia2000
        I m going to go with turret bustle and suggest that stowage box is a possibility. Thanks for your help and input. Would there be interest in this text being
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 19, 2003
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          I'm going to go with "turret bustle" and suggest that stowage box is
          a possibility.
          Thanks for your help and input.
          Would there be interest in this text being posted on this site?
          Jerry

          --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Allton" <p.allton@b...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Does anyone know what the Polish author may have meant by this
          use of
          > > the word "sponson"?
          > >
          > *****
          > Could be the turret bustle (the bit that overhangs at the rear of
          the
          > turret) or maybe a
          > stowage box these were very common on British tanks.
          >
          > Pete
        • Hanno Spoelstra
          ... Jerry, Yes, I would be interested to read your translation about the Polish 1st Armored Division. Regards, Hanno
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 19, 2003
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            --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "tlumaczenia2000" <tlumaczenia2000@y...>
            wrote:
            > Would there be interest in this text being posted on this site?


            Jerry,

            Yes, I would be interested to read your translation about the Polish
            1st Armored Division.

            Regards,
            Hanno
          • Gregory Winters
            From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Sponson: 1. Any of several structures that project from the side of a boat or ship, especially a
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 19, 2003
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              From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:



              Sponson:



              1. Any of several structures that project from the side of a boat or
              ship, especially a gun platform.



              An instance of a "sponson" would be the 75mm main gun on the M3 Lee (or
              Grant) as being "Sponson mounted."



              Greg Winters

              Redding, CA



              -----Original Message-----
              From: tlumaczenia2000 [mailto:tlumaczenia2000@...]
              Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 1:13 AM
              To: G104@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [G104] Re: Mk IIA [M4A1 76(W)] tanks - translation of word
              "sponson"



              I'm going to go with "turret bustle" and suggest that stowage box is
              a possibility.
              Thanks for your help and input.
              Would there be interest in this text being posted on this site?
              Jerry

              --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Allton" <p.allton@b...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Does anyone know what the Polish author may have meant by this
              use of
              > > the word "sponson"?
              > >
              > *****
              > Could be the turret bustle (the bit that overhangs at the rear of
              the
              > turret) or maybe a
              > stowage box these were very common on British tanks.
              >
              > Pete






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            • Paul Roberts
              ... Me, too. Paul -- Paul Roberts tankmodeler@rogers.com Scale Tech Distributing Scale Model Builders http://members.rogers.com/tankmodeler/
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 19, 2003
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                Hanno Spoelstra wrote:

                >--- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "tlumaczenia2000" <tlumaczenia2000@y...>
                >wrote:
                >
                >
                >>Would there be interest in this text being posted on this site?
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >Jerry,
                >
                >Yes, I would be interested to read your translation about the Polish
                >1st Armored Division.
                >
                >Regards,
                >Hanno
                >

                Me, too.

                Paul

                --
                Paul Roberts
                tankmodeler@...

                Scale Tech Distributing
                Scale Model Builders
                http://members.rogers.com/tankmodeler/
              • terry blaine
                When I was crew on the Abrams tanks in the 90 s we called the rack attached to the back of the turret the bustle rack, and the storage boxes on either side of
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 26, 2003
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                  When I was crew on the Abrams tanks in the 90's we called the rack attached to the back of the turret the bustle rack, and the storage boxes on either side of the turret sponson boxes(loaders sponson box and TC's sponson box). There was a hull sponson box(TC's side) andthe NBC system was in the same place on the loaders side. Polish shermans aren't an area I've really researched and I don't know for sure if they may have mounted some kind of external stowage onto the turret and called that a sponson. don't know if it helps any or not!
                  Terry Blaine


                  Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:08:50 -0000
                  From: "tlumaczenia2000"
                  Subject: Mk IIA [M4A1 76(W)] tanks - translation of word "sponson"

                  I am working on a translaton about the Polish 1st Armored Division
                  from Polish to English. The POlish version uses the word SPONSON to
                  describe something on the turret. I noticed in English usage this is
                  something that is on the tank's hull. Please find the context below:

                  The unit received Sherman Mk IIA tanks, i.e. the American M4A1 76(W)
                  powered with carburetor engines and armed with the American M1 76.2
                  mm gun, and had an expanded turret equipped with a rear SPONSON.
                  These were factory-new tanks from the USA, with serial numbers T
                  261894 to T 263893.

                  Does anyone know what the Polish author may have meant by this use of
                  the word "sponson"?

                  Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.
                  jerry







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