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Lima Locomotive M4A1s

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  • mhaines@woh.rr.com
    A friend and myself are reshearching production of M4A1s and or any other military vehicle, in Lima Ohio, up to and including the M1A2. We already have
    Message 1 of 6 , May 11, 2001
      A friend and myself are reshearching production of M4A1s and or any
      other military vehicle, in Lima Ohio, up to and including the M1A2.
      We already have Hunnicut's SHERMAN, but this fine book only touches
      the surface of this subject. We both live within 40 miles of Lima and
      have already checked the local library and The Allen County
      Historical Museum, but these 2 sources only provided a frustratingly
      small amount of information. I have put out feelers with the railroad
      community hoping that someone there will have some info. Any leads or
      ideas where to turn would be greatly appricated.

      Thank you,
      Mike Haines
    • cavscout217
      Hi All, A friend and I are researching M4A1 production at The Lima Locomotive Works. The other day on Bob Holt s fine website about the 752 Tank Battalion, I
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 3, 2004
        Hi All,
        A friend and I are researching M4A1 production at The Lima
        Locomotive Works. The other day on Bob Holt's fine website about the
        752 Tank Battalion, I found a photo of a M4A1 identified as being a
        Lima built tank here is the link http://www.752ndtank.com/toarno.html
        it is the second photo from the bottom. This is the only photo we
        have found of a LLW tank in actual service. Bob said somebody
        contacted him and said that they had a high res. copy of the photo
        and the registration number could be made out. This person had done
        research on Sherman serial numbers/ registration numbers, and
        determined this to be a Lima tank. Bob couldn't remember who it was
        but he said the is one of the sites he frequented while researching
        his site.
        Can anyone out there confirm for me that this is a Lima tank? We
        also would like to find a good list or cross referance of Sherman
        serial numbers and registration numbers.Does anyone know of any
        existing LLW Shermans today?( other than Michael at Bovington)
        Any help would be greatly appreciated

        Thank you
        Mike Haines
      • REPAR.BE
        Hi If you want to have a ride in a LLW M4A1 Sherman tank, i have one (running) in my garage. Pierre Deghaye Belgium ... From: cavscout217 To:
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 3, 2004
          Hi
          If you want to have a ride in a LLW M4A1 Sherman tank, i have one (running) in my garage.
          Pierre Deghaye
          Belgium

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: cavscout217
          To: G104@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:53 PM
          Subject: [G104] Lima Locomotive M4A1s


          Hi All,
          A friend and I are researching M4A1 production at The Lima
          Locomotive Works. The other day on Bob Holt's fine website about the
          752 Tank Battalion, I found a photo of a M4A1 identified as being a
          Lima built tank here is the link http://www.752ndtank.com/toarno.html
          it is the second photo from the bottom. This is the only photo we
          have found of a LLW tank in actual service. Bob said somebody
          contacted him and said that they had a high res. copy of the photo
          and the registration number could be made out. This person had done
          research on Sherman serial numbers/ registration numbers, and
          determined this to be a Lima tank. Bob couldn't remember who it was
          but he said the is one of the sites he frequented while researching
          his site.
          Can anyone out there confirm for me that this is a Lima tank? We
          also would like to find a good list or cross referance of Sherman
          serial numbers and registration numbers.Does anyone know of any
          existing LLW Shermans today?( other than Michael at Bovington)
          Any help would be greatly appreciated

          Thank you
          Mike Haines



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        • cavscout217
          Hi Pierre Thanks for the invitation, if I could afford it I would fly there today!! I love Belgium anyhow, because I m very interested in the Battle Of The
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 4, 2004
            Hi Pierre
            Thanks for the invitation, if I could afford it I would fly there
            today!! I love Belgium anyhow, because I'm very interested in the
            Battle Of The Bulge. Do you have any photos you can email me of your
            tank? I would really like to see one of the data plate if it says
            Lima Locomotive on it. We are planning to write a book and a photo
            of a real data plate would be neat to include.
            Thanks,
            Mike Haines



            > Hi
            > If you want to have a ride in a LLW M4A1 Sherman tank, i have
            one (running) in my garage.
            > Pierre Deghaye
            > Belgium
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: cavscout217
            > To: G104@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:53 PM
            > Subject: [G104] Lima Locomotive M4A1s
            >
            >
            > Hi All,
            > A friend and I are researching M4A1 production at The Lima
            > Locomotive Works. The other day on Bob Holt's fine website about
            the
            > 752 Tank Battalion, I found a photo of a M4A1 identified as
            being a
            > Lima built tank here is the link
            http://www.752ndtank.com/toarno.html
            > it is the second photo from the bottom. This is the only photo
            we
            > have found of a LLW tank in actual service. Bob said somebody
            > contacted him and said that they had a high res. copy of the
            photo
            > and the registration number could be made out. This person had
            done
            > research on Sherman serial numbers/ registration numbers, and
            > determined this to be a Lima tank. Bob couldn't remember who it
            was
            > but he said the is one of the sites he frequented while
            researching
            > his site.
            > Can anyone out there confirm for me that this is a Lima tank? We
            > also would like to find a good list or cross referance of
            Sherman
            > serial numbers and registration numbers.Does anyone know of any
            > existing LLW Shermans today?( other than Michael at Bovington)
            > Any help would be greatly appreciated
            >
            > Thank you
            > Mike Haines
            >
            >
            >
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > **Please trim your replies**
            > **Do not post in HTML or "Rich Text" mode**
            > **Plain ASCII Text only please**
            > **Attachments will be stripped**
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > Sherman Register
            > http://www.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > G104 - the Sherman Register mailing list
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104
            > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G104/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > G104-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joseph DeMarco
            Hi Pierre, Did you acquire another Sherman to go along with your Grizzly?? I too would be interested in seeing some pix of an M4A1 known to be Lima-built. I
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 4, 2004
              Hi Pierre,

              Did you acquire another Sherman to go along with your Grizzly??
              I too would be interested in seeing some pix of an M4A1 known
              to be Lima-built. I believe each factory's tanks had minor variations
              in appearance that can serve as recognition features, but there aren't
              many Lima M4A1s around to examine.

              Hi Mike,

              IIRC, we corresponded briefly a while back.
              Have you found anything new or interesting about tank production at LLW?
              I visited the Allen County Historical Society last summer.
              I'm afraid I didn't find much tank information there.
              For the most part, they concentrate on Lima's history as a
              RR center & locomotive builder. The curators said they had a tank
              production factory film, but it wasn't available to the public.
              They also said a gentleman in Williamsburg was doing a book about LLW.
              Is that you & your friend?
              (BTW, the Historical Society's Sherman was not built by Lima - it's a Chrysler.)
              There's nothing left of the locomotive plant, & the General Dynamics site
              (ex-Lima Tank Depot) was restricted.

              I sent Bob Holt the photo of the 752 TB Sherman, & can only confirm
              that I think that tank was about the 270th built by Lima.
              I haven't been able to collect enough info to state that with certainty.

              The Calliope at APG, Md. is an example of a surviving Lima M4A1.
              It has the Lima logo, along with what I suspect is a build number,
              stamped into the right front hull where it meets the fender.
              I would guess all Limas had this, but no one has been able to
              find it under the paint layers of other potential Lima-built M4A1s.

              I've been trying to find "a good list or cross referance of Sherman
              serial numbers and registration numbers" for a few years now.
              Some Lima documents are said to be in a few university library collections.
              Perhaps they include contracts or correspondence with the Ordnance Dept?
              Have you looked at any of that?
              Please let me know if you have any success with the Lima figures.

              Regards

              Joe DeMarco
            • cavscout217
              ... variations ... aren t ... at LLW? ... LLW. ... it s a Chrysler.) ... Dynamics site ... confirm ... certainty. ... Sherman ... collections. ... Dept? ... Hi
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 6, 2004
                --- In G104@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph DeMarco" <snick1@e...> wrote:
                > Hi Pierre,
                >
                > Did you acquire another Sherman to go along with your Grizzly??
                > I too would be interested in seeing some pix of an M4A1 known
                > to be Lima-built. I believe each factory's tanks had minor
                variations
                > in appearance that can serve as recognition features, but there
                aren't
                > many Lima M4A1s around to examine.
                >
                > Hi Mike,
                >
                > IIRC, we corresponded briefly a while back.
                > Have you found anything new or interesting about tank production
                at LLW?
                > I visited the Allen County Historical Society last summer.
                > I'm afraid I didn't find much tank information there.
                > For the most part, they concentrate on Lima's history as a
                > RR center & locomotive builder. The curators said they had a tank
                > production factory film, but it wasn't available to the public.
                > They also said a gentleman in Williamsburg was doing a book about
                LLW.
                > Is that you & your friend?
                > (BTW, the Historical Society's Sherman was not built by Lima -
                it's a Chrysler.)
                > There's nothing left of the locomotive plant, & the General
                Dynamics site
                > (ex-Lima Tank Depot) was restricted.
                >
                > I sent Bob Holt the photo of the 752 TB Sherman, & can only
                confirm
                > that I think that tank was about the 270th built by Lima.
                > I haven't been able to collect enough info to state that with
                certainty.
                >
                > The Calliope at APG, Md. is an example of a surviving Lima M4A1.
                > It has the Lima logo, along with what I suspect is a build number,
                > stamped into the right front hull where it meets the fender.
                > I would guess all Limas had this, but no one has been able to
                > find it under the paint layers of other potential Lima-built M4A1s.
                >
                > I've been trying to find "a good list or cross referance of
                Sherman
                > serial numbers and registration numbers" for a few years now.
                > Some Lima documents are said to be in a few university library
                collections.
                > Perhaps they include contracts or correspondence with the Ordnance
                Dept?
                > Have you looked at any of that?
                > Please let me know if you have any success with the Lima figures.
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > Joe DeMarco



                Hi Joe,
                We are finding a few great unpublished photos from LLW and very
                basic history but nothing ground shaking yet. You are right about
                the Allen Co. Museum, not real promissing. However we have recently
                been told by a railroad historian who had total access to their
                files, that they have more than they know, not a lot more but more.
                He said they aren't the best organized.
                As far as the site of the former LLW factory, there are a couple of
                smaller buildings left. We had the chance to go through these 2
                years ago with an Antique dealer who had purchased the contents of
                the remaining buildings. The larger of the 2 was basically a
                warehouse for patterns, thousands of them! Nothing tank related that
                we could find though.
                We did find some info on Lima's involvement in the machining the
                hulls of M-48s for Ford. Also there was some info on their
                involvment with LVT 5 amtracs and a bunch of great photos of 5 ton
                wreckers they built in the 60s and 70s ( I believe they were Clark
                Equipment by then) There was also a little about a small weasle like
                vehicle they worked on post war, I forget the model number right now.
                As far the museum's M4A3E8, wouldn't be great if they could find a
                Lima built M4A1!!
                We are in contact with General Dynamics to see if they can help us
                out on the Lima Tank Depot. We have our fingers crossed!
                We will have to get back to APG and check out their Lima tank.
                The photo on Bob's website, well he emailed it to me and I tweaked
                the color and brightness etc.a little and sent it back to him and
                now he is sure that his Dad is the commander on the Lima tank and
                the driver of the other tank is the father of a lady he knows! He
                was thrilled, as was I to have helped someone confirm something like
                that!
                Thanks for the help Joe and keep us in mind if you find anything
                usefull and we will do the same for you.

                Keep in touch,
                Mike
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