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9650Re: [G104] El Alamein Sherman II [1 Attachment]

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  • Joe DeMarco
    Dec 5, 2013
    Thanks, Dave!
    I'm a bit of a Sherman nerd, and am excited to see that that looks to be the original Pullman Standard Car Co. dataplate.
    You can see "Standard" on the third line, & "1942" is stamped in the box on the bottom left.
    I think their dataplates might have been made of cast brass in the early days, which holds up nicely as opposed to the later ones made of low quality metal.
    Many surviving examples of those are rusted unreadable.
     
    I've attached a period photo of a Pullman dataplate.
    The tank serial number is stamped in the box in the upper right.
    This one was 908, the fourth Sherman made by Pullman.
    Too bad the number can't be read on the El Alamein.
    I'm thinking it would be in the 9XX or 10XX range.
    Pierre-Olivier & I haven't been able to find the serial number stamped anywhere on the exterior of any of the few Pullmans we have been able to examine.
    We think they may have stamped a build sequence number into the upper rear hull plate, but we would need to find a few examples with known good serial numbers to confirm that.
     
    A lot of surviving Shermans have remanufacturer dataplates.
    I would think that if that tank had been remanufactured in the US, Fisher Body or Federal Machine would have replaced the original plate, but it's not like there are any examples out there to study.
    Don't believe any of those gun travel locks were ever shipped overseas as mods, so how that got on there...
    Would guess the three piece diff came off an M4A4.
    The serial number of the tank it came from might be stamped on the front towing lugs.
    That M4A2 might have been built with a 3-piece, but I doubt if it would have had the "lips" in front of the top bolt strip.  
    It's hard to study the M4A2s since most of them "disappeared" to Lend Lease.
    The spare tracks are blocking the view, but I think that one might have the most elaborate glacis pattern seen on a welded hull Sherman, with a record 8 sections, including the drivers' hoods.
    I've attached a factory shot of one that appears to be an 8 section.
    The "133" painted on the side might be the build sequence number.
    If so, the tank would have been accepted in July 1942.
     
    Greatly appreciate the digital tour, Dave!
     
     
    Joe 
     
     
     
     
     

    Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:56 AM
    Subject: Re: [G104] El Alamein Sherman II [1 Attachment]

    Hi Joe,
     
    Tough to read, but here it is. I'll send you the other pictures with wetransfer.com (big files)
     
    Dave
     
    In a message dated 12/5/2013 10:47:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, snick13@... writes:
     

    Hi Dave,
     
    The El Alamein Sherman looks to be a very early Pullman built M4A2. 
    It has been extensively upgraded, or possibly remanufactured in the US in 1944, and then sent to the Brits as Lend Lease.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that was originally built with M3 type bogies
    The "no pistol port" turret was intro'd in Fall of 1943, so definitely a replacement on a 1942 production tank.
     
    You were able to get inside?
    Was there a dataplate?
     
    Hope all's good with you.
     
    Joe

    Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:16 AM
    Subject: Re: [G104] El Alamein Sherman II [1 Attachment]

    Hi Dave & Joe,
     
    I was in Egypt in 2000 and had a chance visit the El Alamein Military Museum.  They had a Sherman there that I took a couple of pictures of inside and out.  Not sure if they will help with modeling, but possibly just for interest. There were no markings on it.
     
    One is attached (it was my pre-digital camera days, so I took pictures of the pictures in an album).
     
    If you are interested in the others, let me know and I will forward them to you.
     
    Dave
     
     
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