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archief Leeuwarden

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  • Ineke
    Wie wil er voor mij kijken in Leeuwarden voor een geboortedatum? Anna Pels geb ca 1824 en Joseph Pels geb ca 1829 leeuwarden dv en zv Adrianus en Wiertje
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 1, 2004
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      Wie wil er voor mij kijken in Leeuwarden voor een geboortedatum?
      Anna Pels geb ca 1824 en Joseph Pels geb ca 1829 leeuwarden dv en zv
      Adrianus en Wiertje (Wiettje) van der Veen en van
      Elisabeth Scheen geb ca 1795 L,warden dv Johan Philip en Janke Romkes
      Cornelis Sporre geb ca 1846 L'warden zv Hans Jurjen en Anna van der Meulen
      Pieter van de vegt geb ca 1838 L'warden zv Christiaan Jans en Trijntje
      Anna Maria Klebach.
      Jan Vogel geb ca !837 L'warden zv Jacob en Antonia Nijland
      Johannes Jonkman geb ca 1838 zv Klaas en Johanna Catharina Totenberg
      Clarrissa MAria Burrij geb ca 1836 L'warden dv Jacob en Tettje du Pied
      Al deze personen trouwen in beverwijk en Velsen.

      Alvast heel hartelijk bedankt,
      Ineke

      --

      http://genea.pedete.net voor Noord-Hollandse huwelijken 1811-1892

      http://members.chello.nl/cfsmit2 genealogie-site van Ineke
      http://forum.fok.nl/topic/602453 reisverslag Ierland
    • Reinderd Visser
      I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so everything is quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start, I must add. I have a
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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        I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so everything is quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start, I must add. I have a question, though. I note that the middle names of the families that I am researching are usually the same, for example - Reinder Klazes Visser and Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister); Gerrit Reinders Visser and Yke Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone explain the reason for that, please?

        Thank you kindly.

        Reinderd Visser
        South Africa


        ---------------------------------
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Walraven Koster
        Reinderd, In Friesland during the 18th century it is quite usual to find de name of the father as patronym in the childs name. So Gerrit Reinders Visser and
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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          Reinderd,

          In Friesland during the 18th century it is quite usual to find de name
          of the father as patronym in the childs' name. So Gerrit Reinders
          Visser and Yke Reinders Visser woud be children of a Reinder Visser
          (Reinder Klazes Visser?) and the father of Reinder and Ybeltje would
          be called Klaas.

          Walraven Koster.





          --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Reinderd Visser
          <reinderd2003@y...> wrote:
          > I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so
          everything is quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start,
          I must add. I have a question, though. I note that the middle names of
          the families that I am researching are usually the same, for example -
          Reinder Klazes Visser and Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister);
          Gerrit Reinders Visser and Yke Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone
          explain the reason for that, please?
          >
          > Thank you kindly.
          >
          > Reinderd Visser
          > South Africa
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Walraven Koster
          Reinderd, I am sorry. I meant 19th century of course. I think it is a matter of old habits dying hard. Walraven.
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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            Reinderd, I am sorry. I meant 19th century of course. I think it is a
            matter of old habits dying hard.

            Walraven.


            --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Walraven Koster"

            <walravenkoster@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Reinderd,
            >
            > In Friesland during the 18th century it is quite usual to find de name
            > of the father as patronym in the childs' name. So Gerrit Reinders
            > Visser and Yke Reinders Visser woud be children of a Reinder Visser
            > (Reinder Klazes Visser?) and the father of Reinder and Ybeltje would
            > be called Klaas.
            >
            > Walraven Koster.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, Reinderd Visser
            > <reinderd2003@y...> wrote:
            > > I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so
            > everything is quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start,
            > I must add. I have a question, though. I note that the middle names of
            > the families that I am researching are usually the same, for example -
            > Reinder Klazes Visser and Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister);
            > Gerrit Reinders Visser and Yke Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone
            > explain the reason for that, please?
            > >
            > > Thank you kindly.
            > >
            > > Reinderd Visser
            > > South Africa
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Streekstra
            Reinderd, In general quit simpel. In Friesland=Patronime =named after the father, in this case the father is Klaas. So Klaas-son is Klazes (short for Klaseszn
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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              Reinderd,

              In general quit simpel.

              In Friesland=Patronime =named after the father, in this case the father is Klaas.
              So Klaas-son is Klazes (short for Klaseszn (genativ)i.e zoon is son)
              Gerrit is the son of Reinder (in the early days:Reinderszn.)
              and so on.
              Matronime is to be named after the mother.
              Very generally spoken, this rule is broken in 1811 by a law of Napoleon that says that
              everyone had to to take a surname, but still nowadays, many sons/daughters in Friesland
              and byond have a patr/matronime as middlename.
              This very old system, (dating far back) is still used in Iceland.
              Now, writing this, naming after parents and ancestors before 1811 is following quit strict
              rules.
              The first son is named (given name)after the father, the second son is named after his
              brother and so on.
              So in your case it is not unlikely that Reinder Klazes father was named Klaas Reinders.(in
              very ealy days, 17th century Reindersz.)
              All the names in a row except, for example, it was not someones turn to be named after but
              he/she died before his/her turn to hold the name in the family.
              So in many cases it seems to be that he son is named after the grandfather.
              Now, by practising genealogy, go for the patronimes.(matronimes).
              This was in short just a bit of help,
              Sincerely yours,
              greetings,
              Peter Nanne Streekstra





              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Reinderd Visser" <reinderd2003@...>
              To: <Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:23 PM
              Subject: [Friesland-genealogy] Naamgewing in Friesland/Nederland



              I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so everything is quite new to me.
              Tresoar.com is giving me a good start, I must add. I have a question, though. I note that
              the middle names of the families that I am researching are usually the same, for example -
              Reinder Klazes Visser and Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister); Gerrit Reinders
              Visser and Yke Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone explain the reason for that, please?

              Thank you kindly.

              Reinderd Visser
              South Africa


              ---------------------------------
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://www.genealogy-yn-fryslan.tk/.

              Het archief van deze lijst voor Friese genealogen met daarin alle sinds 8 juli 1999
              geposte berichten staat op http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Friesland-genealogy

              Om uw abonnement te beëindigen stuurt u een (leeg) email-bericht naar:
              Friesland-genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Ginny Sanchez
              I m new to this myself, but I velieve that has to do with the patronymic naming system--Gerrit Reinders Visser, for example, may have had a father with the
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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                I'm new to this myself, but I velieve that has to do with the
                patronymic naming system--Gerrit Reinders Visser, for example, may
                have had a father with the first name of Reinder.

                There's a nice guide over at
                http://www.godutch.com/genealogy/basics/index.asp to help you get
                started; he begins discussing naming conventions in chapter 11.

                Ginny


                On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:23:40 -0800 (PST), Reinderd Visser
                <reinderd2003@...> wrote:
                > I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so everything is
                > quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start, I must add. I have a
                > question, though. I note that the middle names of the families that I am
                > researching are usually the same, for example - Reinder Klazes Visser and
                > Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister); Gerrit Reinders Visser and Yke
                > Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone explain the reason for that, please?
                >
                > Thank you kindly.
                >
                > Reinderd Visser
                > South Africa
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://www.genealogy-yn-fryslan.tk/.
                >
                > Het archief van deze lijst voor Friese genealogen met daarin alle sinds 8
                > juli 1999 geposte berichten staat op
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Friesland-genealogy
                >
                > Om uw abonnement te beëindigen stuurt u een (leeg) email-bericht naar:
                > Friesland-genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
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                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                --
                Ginny
                http://www.ginnysanchez.com
              • Nynke van den Hooven
                Reinderd, Peter Nanne and Walraven already explained the use of patronyms. On http://www.varkevisser.org/namen/vernoeming.htm you may find some information
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 9, 2004
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                  Reinderd,

                  Peter Nanne and Walraven already explained the use of patronyms.
                  On http://www.varkevisser.org/namen/vernoeming.htm you may find some information about the naming patterns in Friesland (and the Netherlands in general).
                  The strict naming rules in combination with adding the fathers name to that of a child resulted in distinctive name combinations. It was clear to which family you belonged and Frisians had no need for familynames as far as distinction was concerned.
                  Even if there were 2 persons in the same village named Klaas both having a son Jan, people would find another way to tell them apart. By adding a grandfathers name (e.g. Jan Klaas/Klazes Willems and Jan Klaas/Klazes Piers) or maybe by some specific 'looks' and so one would be known as e.g. Jan Neus and the other one as Jan Klazes.

                  The Napoleontic decree in 1811 ordered all Dutch people to have a familyname registered. But 'old habits die hard'. Both my grandfathers (born around 1900) signed official papers with their first ánd middle name (and familyname). Or used the initial of a middle name. But neither of them had a middle name! It was the patronym they used.

                  The fact that Frisian were 'new' to the familyname also caused names to change in the course of the 18th century, some just a little (one or 2 letters), others quite dramatically (Kooistra becoming De Vries!). Good thing to keep in mind when conducting genealogical research in Friesland :-)!

                  Good luck in your search!

                  Kind regards,
                  Nynke van den Hooven.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Reinderd Visser
                  To: Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 10:23 PM
                  Subject: [Friesland-genealogy] Naamgewing in Friesland/Nederland


                  I am only starting to research my ancestors in Friesland so everything is quite new to me. Tresoar.com is giving me a good start, I must add. I have a question, though. I note that the middle names of the families that I am researching are usually the same, for example - Reinder Klazes Visser and Ybeltje Klazes Visser (brother and sister); Gerrit Reinders Visser and Yke Reinders Visser (ditto). Can someone explain the reason for that, please?

                  Thank you kindly.

                  Reinderd Visser
                  South Africa
                  <knip>

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Edward Otte
                  Beste Group, Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does not carry the father s name but some other? What I am saying is that I have an
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                    Beste Group,

                    Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does not
                    carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that I
                    have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis from
                    Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to the
                    strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                    DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some rule
                    for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of a
                    brother of Derk Jans Buis?

                    Edward Otte
                  • J.A.RUITER
                    Beste Edward, is it possible that GEERTS in Klaas Geerts Buis is promoted to a first name, so his full name would be Klaas Geerts DERKS Buis ? I have seen
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                      Beste Edward,

                      is it possible that GEERTS in Klaas Geerts Buis is promoted to a first name,
                      so his full name would be Klaas Geerts DERKS Buis ?
                      I have seen these things happen a few times in my own data, f.e.,
                      I've got a Jacob Johannes Hendriks Ruiter, son of Hendrik Johannes Ruiter.

                      Remember, the rules may be strict but there is always room for deviation...

                      Groeten, Jaap Ruiter
                    • Nynke van den Hooven
                      Edward, The Buis-family being of Groninger origin, you might have more result by putting this specific question to the Groningen-group. The different patronym
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                        Edward,

                        The Buis-family being of Groninger origin, you might have more result by putting this specific question to the Groningen-group.

                        The different patronym may also be a mistake made by the person who wrote the 'real' certificate or by the person who made the data available on GenLias.
                        As my grandfather used to say:"You shouldn't believe something just because it's written down or printed!" :-)

                        Met vriendelijke groet,
                        Nynke van den Hooven.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Edward Otte
                        To: Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:09 AM
                        Subject: [Friesland-genealogy] Re: Naamgewing in Friesland/Nederland



                        Beste Group,

                        Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does not
                        carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that I
                        have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis from
                        Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to the
                        strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                        DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some rule
                        for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of a
                        brother of Derk Jans Buis?

                        Edward Otte
                        <knip>

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • lantinga48
                        Dear Edward, It s just a mistake. In case of his own marriage with Elizabeth Aries Noordhof and the marriages of his children Anje (2x) and Aries he is
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                          Dear Edward,

                          It's just a mistake.

                          In case of his own marriage with Elizabeth Aries Noordhof and the
                          marriages of his children Anje (2x) and Aries he is mentioned Klaas
                          Geerts Buis.
                          In case of the marriages of his children Harmannus, Derk and Reina
                          he is called Klaas Derks Buis.
                          Kind regards
                          Sievert Lantinga

                          --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Otte"
                          <edotte@o...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Beste Group,
                          >
                          > Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does
                          not
                          > carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that I
                          > have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis
                          from
                          > Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to
                          the
                          > strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                          > DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some
                          rule
                          > for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of
                          a
                          > brother of Derk Jans Buis?
                          >
                          > Edward Otte
                        • Jaap Deelstra
                          Beste mensen, Interessante bijdragen aan de naamgeving heb ik gezien. Jammer genoeg niet in het Nederlands. Misschien kan het in het Nederlands nog eens goed
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                            Beste mensen,

                            Interessante bijdragen aan de naamgeving heb ik gezien. Jammer genoeg niet
                            in het Nederlands. Misschien kan het in het Nederlands nog eens goed
                            uitgelegd, want dit is toch een Nederlandse groep?

                            Groetjes
                            Jaap.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Nynke van den Hooven" <nynkevandenhooven@...>
                            To: <Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:54 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Friesland-genealogy] Re: Naamgewing in Friesland/Nederland



                            Edward,

                            The Buis-family being of Groninger origin, you might have more result by
                            putting this specific question to the Groningen-group.

                            The different patronym may also be a mistake made by the person who wrote
                            the 'real' certificate or by the person who made the data available on
                            GenLias.
                            As my grandfather used to say:"You shouldn't believe something just because
                            it's written down or printed!" :-)

                            Met vriendelijke groet,
                            Nynke van den Hooven.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Edward Otte
                            To: Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:09 AM
                            Subject: [Friesland-genealogy] Re: Naamgewing in Friesland/Nederland



                            Beste Group,

                            Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does not
                            carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that I
                            have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis from
                            Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to the
                            strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                            DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some rule
                            for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of a
                            brother of Derk Jans Buis?

                            Edward Otte
                            <knip>

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                            Genealogy yn Fryslân: http://www.genealogy-yn-fryslan.tk/.

                            Het archief van deze lijst voor Friese genealogen met daarin alle sinds 8
                            juli 1999 geposte berichten staat op
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Friesland-genealogy

                            Om uw abonnement te beëindigen stuurt u een (leeg) email-bericht naar:
                            Friesland-genealogy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Reinderd Visser
                            Goeienaand En waarom dan nie ook in Afrikaans nie? Ek lees so heerlik die Nederlands dat ek seker is dat julle ook my taal sal kan verstaan? :-) (I presume you
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                              Goeienaand

                              En waarom dan nie ook in Afrikaans nie? Ek lees so heerlik die Nederlands dat ek seker is dat julle ook my taal sal kan verstaan? :-) (I presume you noticed we say "naamgewing", and not "naamgeving", in Afrikaans.)

                              I find it quite easy to read most of the reports in Dutch, which makes it nice to be part of this forum. Thank you very much for all the interesting replies to my question. It explains all the Haye Janse and Jans Hayes and Reinder Tjerkse in my family.

                              Vriendelike Groete uit Suid-Afrika

                              Reinderd

                              Jaap Deelstra <jaap_deelstra@...> wrote:
                              Beste mensen,

                              Interessante bijdragen aan de naamgeving heb ik gezien. Jammer genoeg niet
                              in het Nederlands. Misschien kan het in het Nederlands nog eens goed
                              uitgelegd, want dit is toch een Nederlandse groep?

                              Groetjes
                              Jaap.


                              ---------------------------------
                              Do you Yahoo!?
                              Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • dansinema
                              Beste Edward, Over the years I have come across situations in which a child is given a name that does not include a patronymic. I have seen them in the 1700 s
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 10, 2004
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                                Beste Edward,

                                Over the years I have come across situations in which a child is
                                given a name that does not include a patronymic. I have seen them in
                                the 1700's and 1800's. The situations were somewhat unique in that
                                the son was named after an uncle that had recently died and (in the
                                1700's) the family had a surname that was generally used. There were
                                some other occasions, all in the same family, where the children of a
                                dominie were given names that were completely outside of the normal
                                naming conventions. I assumed that the father probably came from
                                another province other than Friesland, where the convention was not
                                as strictly adhered to. May experience over thousands of names is
                                that the use of patronymics was nearly universal in Friesland and
                                that the naming convention for the first two sons and first two
                                daughters was widely adhered to.

                                Thanks. Met vriendelijke groeten.

                                Dan Sinema
                                dansinema@...

                                --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Otte"
                                <edotte@o...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Beste Group,
                                >
                                > Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does
                                not
                                > carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that I
                                > have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis
                                from
                                > Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to
                                the
                                > strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                                > DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some rule
                                > for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of a
                                > brother of Derk Jans Buis?
                                >
                                > Edward Otte
                              • Edward Otte
                                Beste mensen, My apologies for the English. I do not know much Nederlands. But I am now learning more and more reading and writing here. Groeten, Edward Beste
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 11, 2004
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                                  Beste mensen,

                                  My apologies for the English. I do not know much Nederlands. But I am
                                  now learning more and more reading and writing here.

                                  Groeten,

                                  Edward

                                  Beste mensen,

                                  Mijn verontschuldigingen voor de Engelsen. Ik ken veel Nederlands
                                  niet. Maar ik leer nu meer en meer lezing en schrijf hier.

                                  Groeten, Edward
                                • Edward Otte
                                  Beste Dan, The general subject of this thread is very interesting judging from the number of replies and additions to the original post. But allow me to
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 11, 2004
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                                    Beste Dan,

                                    The general subject of this thread is very interesting judging from
                                    the number of replies and additions to the original post. But allow
                                    me to interject yet more on the naming system in the generations that
                                    came to America down to me. For three generations after coming to
                                    America every child was named according to the tradition. I was the
                                    first named differently by my father! Then after me, for some odd
                                    reason, he had a change of heart and starting naming all the children
                                    by that naming tradtion. Traditions die hard.

                                    Edward (should have been Richard/ Dirk) Otte :-)




                                    > Beste Edward,
                                    >
                                    > Over the years I have come across situations in which a child is
                                    > given a name that does not include a patronymic. I have seen them
                                    in
                                    > the 1700's and 1800's. The situations were somewhat unique in that
                                    > the son was named after an uncle that had recently died and (in the
                                    > 1700's) the family had a surname that was generally used. There
                                    were
                                    > some other occasions, all in the same family, where the children of
                                    a
                                    > dominie were given names that were completely outside of the normal
                                    > naming conventions. I assumed that the father probably came from
                                    > another province other than Friesland, where the convention was not
                                    > as strictly adhered to. May experience over thousands of names is
                                    > that the use of patronymics was nearly universal in Friesland and
                                    > that the naming convention for the first two sons and first two
                                    > daughters was widely adhered to.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks. Met vriendelijke groeten.
                                    >
                                    > Dan Sinema
                                    > dansinema@m...
                                    >
                                    > --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Otte"
                                    > <edotte@o...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Beste Group,
                                    > >
                                    > > Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does
                                    > not
                                    > > carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that
                                    I
                                    > > have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis
                                    > from
                                    > > Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to
                                    > the
                                    > > strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                                    > > DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some
                                    rule
                                    > > for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of
                                    a
                                    > > brother of Derk Jans Buis?
                                    > >
                                    > > Edward Otte
                                  • Walraven Koster
                                    I ve got the wrong name too, for yet another reason. It should have been Klaas but for my grandfather. He was unwilling to be vernoemd (his grandchild getting
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 11, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I've got the wrong name too, for yet another reason. It should have
                                      been Klaas but for my grandfather. He was unwilling to be
                                      'vernoemd'(his grandchild getting his name). So I got the name of my
                                      other grandfather (in 1956), and my brothers are named after their
                                      grandmothers.

                                      Walraven Koster.



                                      --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Otte"
                                      <edotte@o...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Beste Dan,
                                      >
                                      > The general subject of this thread is very interesting judging from
                                      > the number of replies and additions to the original post. But allow
                                      > me to interject yet more on the naming system in the generations that
                                      > came to America down to me. For three generations after coming to
                                      > America every child was named according to the tradition. I was the
                                      > first named differently by my father! Then after me, for some odd
                                      > reason, he had a change of heart and starting naming all the children
                                      > by that naming tradtion. Traditions die hard.
                                      >
                                      > Edward (should have been Richard/ Dirk) Otte :-)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Beste Edward,
                                      > >
                                      > > Over the years I have come across situations in which a child is
                                      > > given a name that does not include a patronymic. I have seen them
                                      > in
                                      > > the 1700's and 1800's. The situations were somewhat unique in that
                                      > > the son was named after an uncle that had recently died and (in the
                                      > > 1700's) the family had a surname that was generally used. There
                                      > were
                                      > > some other occasions, all in the same family, where the children of
                                      > a
                                      > > dominie were given names that were completely outside of the normal
                                      > > naming conventions. I assumed that the father probably came from
                                      > > another province other than Friesland, where the convention was not
                                      > > as strictly adhered to. May experience over thousands of names is
                                      > > that the use of patronymics was nearly universal in Friesland and
                                      > > that the naming convention for the first two sons and first two
                                      > > daughters was widely adhered to.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks. Met vriendelijke groeten.
                                      > >
                                      > > Dan Sinema
                                      > > dansinema@m...
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Friesland-genealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Otte"
                                      > > <edotte@o...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Beste Group,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Is any aware of an patronymic naming case in which one child does
                                      > > not
                                      > > > carry the father's name but some other? What I am saying is that
                                      > I
                                      > > > have an ancestor, who by all records is a son of Derk Jans Buis
                                      > > from
                                      > > > Groningen and all of the children are properly named according to
                                      > > the
                                      > > > strick rules of the patronymic system and have "middle" names of
                                      > > > DERKS but for my one ancestor Klaas GEERTS Buis. Is there some
                                      > rule
                                      > > > for the deviation here or is it possible he was actually a son of
                                      > a
                                      > > > brother of Derk Jans Buis?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Edward Otte
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